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I was talking to my fiancee and she told me about an event that happened to her while riding the bus to another part of Lima. She was in one of the large busses like we have here with a door in the back and in the front. It was full and she was standing while her friend found a seat. Suddenly shouts erupted from outside the bus and the driver caught on quickly enough to the fact that a group of men were running towards the bus to rob it. He closed the back door in time, but the robbers were about the enter the front door when the way cleared and the driver was able to drive away from them, not before she heard shots fired at the bus! A man next to her told her to get down and he helped cover her. Later he told her that they had fired "balines," which my dictionary says is buck shot. Whatever it was they shot did not penetrate the bus's walls, that she could tell anyway.

She arrived safe at her destination, but the driver crashed the front end of the bus into a car in front of him. Obviously, she was VERY relieved to get off the bus.

She has told me such stories before of taxis and cars being assaulted, but I haven't heard of a bus getting attacked. She's been mugged 4 times in central Lima. She's amazed that have walked all over downtown Lima with a camera even and have not had any trouble.

... in response to A day in the life in Lima, posted by surfscum on Dec 24, 2003

WOW, i walked all over downtown Lima by myself and didnt have a problem, unlike Cali, where i wouldnt walk around anywhere and with good reason.

... in response to A day in the life in Lima, posted by surfscum on Dec 24, 2003

Glad she came out OK. I was wondering how your trip went overall.

My wife doesn't like me carrying a camera around downtown either. She really freaks when I want to use the camcorder in certain places. I walked around her neighborhood one day with it just filming the sights and sounds and she sent her brothers with me to walk along and be sure no one tried to snatch it.

How recently were the muggings? Spread out over years or all lately?

Email me a trip report or post here if you have time.

... in response to Re: A day in the life in Lima, posted by Red Clay on Dec 24, 2003

Lima , Cali , Bogota,

Man, it is the same in all of those cites.My wife and her father and her sister have all been robbed at gunpoint in 3 seperate instances in Cali this past year, and it only gets worse this time of the year because of all the drinking that goes on and people needing money for gifts and such, of course it is no different here in the states except that the bad guys usually get caught and punished here. In SA, i have never seen much justice for theses types of actions. My aDvice to all the guys visting SA this time of year is to be extra careful and not get caught up in all the parades and such because you are the target and remember one thing--"YOU MAY NOT BE WATCHING ANYTHING BUT THE WOMEN , BUT DO NOT BE FOOLED, YOU ARE BEING WATCHED , AND WATCHED, AND WATCHED" Do not forget this and you will have a safe holiday in SA. Forget it and well, we might be reading about your bad experiances or worse, and i do not want to see that happn to any of you guys.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS FRIENDS AND ADVENTURERS

ANDY

... in response to Re: Re: A day in the life in Lima, posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 24, 2003

She did say that it is worse around Christmass with more people in the city, they attract more thieves.

If you can honestly make the comparison between here and there and say it's the same, there is a core group of conspiracists on the Russian forum you should hang with.

... in response to Re: A day in the life in Lima, posted by Red Clay on Dec 24, 2003

I have come to the conclusion that this Board is nothing more than a mediocre TV show with a limited number of episodes.  Since we are now well into the 14th season of reruns, isn't someone going to step up and lecture us about, "Its just as bad here?"  C'mon Hoda, you're very predictible.  Where are you?

... in response to Well...?, posted by burbuja2 on Dec 24, 2003

then why are we here?

... in response to Which begs the question, posted by surfscum on Dec 24, 2003

But I don't deal with metaphysical issues.

... in response to I'm Glad You Asked..., posted by burbuja2 on Dec 24, 2003

Well, we don't want to post anything off-topic, now do we? Too bad, it would make an interesting thread.

Merry Christmas to all!

... in response to Well...?, posted by burbuja2 on Dec 24, 2003

Just the other day they blew up several stores here in Dallas.  No, sorry that was Barranquilla.  But it happens all the time here in the US.  You're much safer in South America.

I hope that helps.

Steve

... in response to Now that you mention it, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

What part of Big D do you live in?  I used to be with DPD in the early 80's and I lived around Bruton and Masters.

... in response to Now That Was Funny, Dallas!, posted by burbuja2 on Dec 24, 2003

Burbuja

Bruton and Masters.  I had to look that one up.  That's south of Town East.  I think that area is heavily Mexican now.

I'm up north at Greenville and LBJ.

Steve

... in response to Re: Now That Was Funny, Dallas!, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

We moved last year up to the 190 area east of central.  My condo in Cali is safer than anything south of I-30 for damn sure - as a native Dallas resident it's been amazing to see the changes over the years and how apartments have killed many a good area.

... in response to Now that you mention it, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

steve what part of dallas? my sister lives there  we both own a buiness there mckinney actually i 've been wanting to ask you if you were actually from down there but now i guess i got  my answer.

... in response to Re: Now that you mention it, posted by bugys67 on Dec 24, 2003

I live near Greenville and LBJ.

Steve

... in response to Re: Re: Now that you mention it, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

steve  you get the cjance stop down to my store in mckinney texas  (bugsy's pizza}  maybe we cas shoot the sh##  i'll be there from jan10- feb 9  then back to pittsburgh for 2 weeks then we opne in myrtle beach maybe you can give some insight always looking for good lunch coverstion  i'll buy

... in response to Now that you mention it, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

Well robbed and blown up are different. The bombs where political. So how many airliners have been force crashed into major locations in Columbia? Or driven in and detonated? Care to compare numbers of bombs with number of dead and injured? Go ahead get the numbers and then post back. I will wait. Do you think the missing children lists in this counry are a joke? The press tells you about solved ones, go ask about unsolved.
Robberies are about you have somthing they want. Does not pay to blow it up. Get carjacked here and they dont want just your car, its a power trip for them, they will hurt you if they feel like it. I would much rather deal with desperate for money v.s. desperate to feel self value.

Usually catch them? Ummm not in any major US city I have ever lived in. That includes Denver, Los Angeles, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, one of those I was a cop in, and several others lived in as well (Nope: Never lived in New York City) including both Air Force and Army bases.

And no its not all the systems fault either. Example: Gang Rape on Ft Carson Col. the description given, "It was some barracks place on base, they all had short hair" the ONLY reason those clowns where caught was because they where actually FOOL enough to take photos and TURN them in to the BASE PHOTO-MAT to be developed!!!

How about we forget the "Bored Comparisson" stuff and stick to what someones concerns might be for where they are going, not who has the worst idiots as citizens. We all have that market covered. It is also a relative thing. I have lived in some very bad areas and not been bothered at all yet in a nice area a friend of mine was beat into ICU becuase someone thought he was someone else who was seeing thier wife. No the Police did not find them, it was a blind side hit with a tire iron. I found the suckers. Got any friends who have been hit by organ-leggers? I have guess what, it was not done in a slum or dive bar etc.

So consider it a formal request.
"How about we stick to L.A. subjects instead of comparisons because we are bored?"

... in response to Re: Now that you mention it, posted by NightRaven on Dec 24, 2003

Whats a organ legger  Just curious

... in response to Re: Re: Now that you mention it, posted by ald07 on Dec 24, 2003

This is one of the most persistent urban legends. Completely Untrue!!

... in response to Organ legger, posted by JSlo on Dec 25, 2003


...that this is just an urban legend:

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/robbery/kidney.htm

... in response to IT'S TRUE !!!..., posted by Bueller on Dec 25, 2003

How dare you interject facts into this thread!  If he said it, it must be true.

Seriously: Good catch.  We used to like to say: "Consider the source."

Steve

PS: I had seen that debunking before, but I wasn't alert enough to throw it back.  The story really doesn't make sense.  If someone is talented enough to remove internal organs and not kill the victim they wouldn't waste their time doing something so vile and illegal.

... in response to BLASPHEMY!, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 26, 2003

First off typo on the amount. And of course as you would know. No doctor of any type has ever lost a lic. for any reason and accepted a challanging career at McDonalds instead, funny wasnt texas the state that had the company sending out people without college let alone MD to perfom surgeries in the US? The one that did not get "found out" for years.

... in response to BLASPHEMY!, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 26, 2003

There is another issue of blood type and tissue matching.
He might end up with an organ without an immediate buyer.

Just my two cents

... in response to Re: Now that you mention it, posted by NightRaven on Dec 24, 2003

NightRaven wrote:

"How about we stick to L.A. subjects instead of comparisons because we are bored?"

This thread sounds like a Latin American subject to me.  About as pertinent as they get.  Besides, we haven't had much contention here on the board lately.  So request denied.

If you feel safe in Colombia, good for you.  For myself, I'd rather drive through South Oak Cliff at night rather than the Base Aerea (where my wife lived in Cali) at night.  You can get killed in either neighborhood (or robbed, or blown up) but I feel safer in the USA.

And we can go back and forth about which country is safer.  When was the last time a store or nightclub was bombed in your city?  I don't remember that ever happening in Dallas.  Sure we lost the WTC and before that there was OKC.  Pablo took down an airliner in Colombia, and he blew up buildings, too.  How many state legislatures have been kidnapped in broad daylight while is session in the US?  Happened last year in Cali.  How many times has the Supreme Court been taken hostage and then the judges murdered in DC?  Happened in Bogota.  How many US Senators have been on a plane, the plane was hijacked, landed on a highway and the Senator was taken away to the jungle.  That was about 2 years ago in Colombia and he's still missing.  When was the last time someone in the USA put a dynamite necklace around an old lady's neck and she and a policeman died while he tried to defuse it?  Colombia, otra vez.  How many times do they blow up pipelines in the USA?  It happens weekly in Colombia.  Unemployment there is around 20%.  People start getting cranky when they have no money.  And the FARC are just flat out animals.  We've got no guerilla army roaming our forests.  Big difference.  I wouldn't drive between major cities in Colombia unless I was in a M1A.  But I wouldn't hesistate to drive across country here if I needed to.

And for someone with maybe a better reference point than you or I here's what my wife had to say.  I told her I was thinking about retiring to Latin America in 10 or 20 years.  Not necessarily Colombia.  Maybe Mexico or somewhere else down South.  

She said "Are you crazy?"  She thinks it's much safer here in the USA.  Of course, she hasn't lived here very long, but I think she's right.

And I think that people considering a trip to Colombia need to go with their eyes open.  I didn't say not go.  I said "with their eyes open".  It's not Kansas.

Steve

PS: Hey Burbuja, you got my back?

... in response to Can of worms opened, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

"This thread sounds like a Latin American subject to me. About as pertinent as they get." NO the parts about what people expect and experience in LA is, not the implied/stated BS the every place is terror hell and we have no problems here.
"Besides, we haven't had much contention here on the board lately" Obviously that is far more important than I gave it credit for, thanks for bringing it back up for me.
You can get killed anywhere. Again safety is relative. I know lots of places here in the US you will NOT feel safe in.

ROFLMAO: You want to bring up Politicians? Puulleeeezzz in the US they have their own private army, ever hear of the Secret Service? You think we pay them to look nice in suits? Do you know how long they are responsible for a politician out of office? Thier families?
The items I named happen here to AVERAGE people. Sorry dude you forgot to show me your multi-millionaire/ US congressman club card. Hey bub in Los Angeles kids can die for far less. You think you know all of the US? How many kids in the US starve to death in an average year? IF you say NONE (and yeah thats what I thought when I was 15) you are wrong.

"And for someone with maybe a better reference point than you" OK lets play. First I make my living here in the US because people discover that they are not safe. I also contracted to people going to Columbia and LA as private security on and off for 10 years. Correct I was not a resident. I was protecting targets. As far as overseas and violence, fine crank up your search engine. Find a company last operating in Europe called Sandline International. Now find their parent company (probably not official) in South Africa, HINT they where (still are I think) the biggest small arms company and had the largest private (fill in the blank) force. Now keep thinking why I would know all of that, why do I know when Thailand hired a crew out of Ireland for a security issue? Why do I know what ocean capable ships have "vanished"? I get paid to keep people safe. That is not what I have always done.

I did not say the the US is NOT safer. I did not say that you are telling anyone DONT go (if you did the fact you have more than once would be brought up by me)
I am not telling anyone to NOT go anywhere.

"We've got no guerilla army roaming our forests" No we just have people being murdered for changing lanes in a manner somebody did not like. And in MHO the guerilla problem there would be much larger (and probably shorter) if more of the population was directly involved by choice.(It was not anyone here but last month some idiot tried to campare it to the US civil war)

I am here looking for current and past information. I guess some of you have viewed it long enough to be tired of it. Not a problem I will stick with the archieves for serious stuff.

"And I think that people considering a trip to Colombia need to go with their eyes open" Sure and I am saying do it where you live too, where you take safety as a given that you cant loose. Keep your eyes open all the time and stop the bs it (anything bad to you) "cant happen here or cant happen to me".

Organ Legger question: You are out having a great time. The next thing you know you wake up in a hotel bathtub filled with ice, a phone with a printed card in your face telling you that if you do not get paramedic help in 15 min you will die. (Because we drugged you and removed an organ(s) from your body, maybe a kidney, last I looked an adult kidney was worth at least $10,000 US at worst.(thats Gov data so it could be much higher) OH IF you catch them you can file "malicious wounding" (spelling?) charges. Look that up and tell me its a fair charge. and NO I am not saying that this happens only here.

Well I am off to see family
Merry Christmas Everyone
P.S. Lost conn 9 times I hope this posts correctly.

... in response to Re: Can of worms opened & Organ Legg..., posted by NightRaven on Dec 24, 2003

[This message has been edited by Cali vet]

For the record here are the numbers posted in the current Semana magazine for 2003. These numbers include the major city and the department it's in:

Medellin & Antioquia Department: homicides: 1429
                                kidnappings: 190

Bogota/Narino: 1444
               127

Cali/Valle de Cauca: 1403
                      54

The department of Guainia had two homicides and two kidnappings.

... in response to The numbers, posted by Cali vet on Dec 25, 2003

CaliVet posted:

"The department of Guainia had two homicides and two kidnappings."

And two people.

Just joking.

Steve

... in response to Clarification, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 26, 2003

And again according to Semana Magazine the department of Vichada had only one homicide but three kidnappings. The numbers are through November 2003 and the source is the Policia Nacional. So what to do? Move to Guainia with attendant greater risk being murdered or take my chances on being kidnapped in Vichada...

... in response to The numbers, posted by Cali vet on Dec 25, 2003

Yo Vet.  You wrote, "The department of Guainia had two homicides and two kidnappings."  Far be it from me to quibble, but shouldn't you have inserted the word "reported" especially before the word "kidnapping"?  You live down there.  Can you conceive of a reason why a large number of individuals may be motivated NOT to report a kidnapping?  Do you think that that could possibly make any attempt at comparisons of crime figures between Colombia and the US meaningless?  I'm certainly not attempting to start an argument on this day of goodwill; I am merely a pilgrim on a journey in a search for the truth.  I'll be standing by for your reply.

... in response to Re: The numbers, posted by burbuja2 on Dec 25, 2003

Burbuja (if that is your real name)

My guess is that many people would not report a kidnapping in Colombia for fear of loosing their kidnapped loved one.  As for why many people in Colombia would not report other crimes I would suggest a fear of reprisal.  Si o no?

Steve

PS: When some (expletive deleted) in Mexico kidnapped the son of Alejandro Fernandez they sent him a finger of his son.  How I wish I could slowly torture that kidnapper to death.  Mexico's no peaceful village either.

... in response to Re: Can of worms opened & Organ Legg..., posted by NightRaven on Dec 24, 2003

As a matter of fact I AM still waiting to meet my first acquaintance who awoke in an ice-filled bathtub sans a vital organ. Don't the "surgeons" know they can make 10,000 every day doing legal surgery if they are really that good at it? And in operating rooms with alot of light, not hotels?

... in response to Re: Can of worms opened & Organ Legg..., posted by NightRaven on Dec 24, 2003

Hey Bub

This thread relates to Latin America.  It's important to those considering travelling there and all sides should be heard, even if you don't want them to be heard.  

You don't define what the theme of this board is (thankfully).  And if you did, you just wasted a lot of effort posting about something you don't think belongs on this board.  

Don't come in here thinking you can tell us what to post about.  You can't.

Basically you just don't want anyone to disagree with you, but that's life dude.  

Steve

... in response to Can of worms closed, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

"You don't define what the theme of this board is (thankfully). And if you did, you just wasted a lot of effort posting about something you don't think belongs on this board.

Don't come in here thinking you can tell us what to post about. You can't."

I did not tell you or anyone you could not post. I did ask something based on my opinion. If it is not yours sorry you cant handle it.

... in response to Re: Can of worms opened & Organ Legg..., posted by NightRaven on Dec 24, 2003

When you are feeling a bit more coherent, could you please tell us about the conspiracy to kill JFK?

... in response to Yo, NightHaven, posted by burbuja2 on Dec 24, 2003

Burbuja

I did it.  And then I ran all the way back to Casa View Elementary School.  

Steve

PS: The statute of limitations has expired

... in response to Psst, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

Steve.  Do you know NightMaven?  He gets paid to protect people.  I think he's a security guard.

... in response to Re: Psst, posted by burbuja2 on Dec 24, 2003

Too funny.  

There's a new sheriff in town.  He's gonna set all us ignorant folk straight.

Steve

... in response to Can of worms opened, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

Yeah, I got your back.  In fact, you can reach me at 504/524-HELP if you need back-up.  If I might be serious for a moment, though, anyone who thinks the crime rates between the U.S. and most countries in L.A. are comparable obviously haven't spent much time in L.A.. (Sorry, for the break, but I had to go lock my door.)  In fact, they are probably the same misguided individuals who feel that Batman violated some imaginary rule.

... in response to Can of worms opened, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

well there was the pizza delivery guy in erie pa.  that was three puounds of c4.

... in response to Can of worms opened, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

Exactly my point Steve

People get so caught up in the women and the agency thing , that they forget how dangerous these places can be.

If people want to keep there heads up there butts, well then let them , but i feel it is peoples responsability that have traveled to these places and i have many times, to be honest and upfront about what can happen. And the police will not help there own people much, let alone a gringo.

I wll not comment on this subject again because there seems to be people here that enjoy controversy. This is plain out reality, not controversy

... in response to Re: Can of worms opened, posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 24, 2003

When I had my little, but highly profitable, bar in El Salvador, we had 3 armed guards and I did not feel that even that was enough.  A little lunch place down the street without any security was held up twice in one month.  Of course, the police never catch anybody, and if they do, there is never enough evidence to convict due to judicial corruption.  The police there are very good, however, at nabbing drivers who don't wear their seatbelt.  Of course, you can use the "express window" and pay your $10 fine immediately to the nice officer who is allowing a bank down the street to be robbed.

... in response to Can of worms opened, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 24, 2003

Colombia does have a lower crime rate when compared to the US, and the US leads the world in incarceration rate BTW!  :)

... in response to Look at the bright side, posted by cancunhound on Dec 24, 2003

Would you like to guess why crimes in Colombia aren't reported?  If you guess right, I'll send you a prize!

... in response to Please Show Some Intelligence, Cancunhou..., posted by burbuja2 on Dec 24, 2003

burbuja2, please don't take me so seriously - we've hashed this subject time and time again - I won't be a parrot here as I've addressed the obvious reason why many crimes go unreported in prior threads.  But, my guess would be even if all the crimes there were reported it would still be less than the US percentage - there is simply more per capita to steal in the US.  I'd hate to think what the actual kidnapping rate is in Colombia however if all the unreported ones are thrown in.  Merry XMas!

... in response to Re: Prize Please!, posted by cancunhound on Dec 24, 2003

But still no prize.  I will wish you a Merry, and safe, Christmas.

... in response to Please Show Some Intelligence, Cancunhou..., posted by burbuja2 on Dec 24, 2003

Gee surely it could not be that some of thier partners have badges and guns. No that cant be it. UMMM a time limit to file and too many complicated forms?

... in response to Look at the bright side, posted by cancunhound on Dec 24, 2003

Both are probably because of our Prohibition...I mean war on drugs.

I won't debate that one again.

Steve