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Well it looks like I am be be in Lima for Christmas.

My girl said that was what she wanted for Christmaso so I am talking off again. I am already counting down the days.
The tickets were a little expensive but I will have very little expenses once i get there.

This trip will be a good test to see if what we had the first trip was real.

I know this sounds crazy but I actually thinking of moving to Peru and retiring. I think I could start a couple small business down there and invest my money and "retire" at 36.

My girl is so simple and sweet I just cant figure out how she would relly ever understand the way I do things here. She is so young and had no real concept of what it takes to make ends meet here and keep a household going.
She also wants kids and kids here are expensive. Down there I think you can raise kids for next to nothing. There she woud have family support etc. Here it would just be me and her 99 percent of the time. Its really just a crazy idea at this point.

Has anyone ever done his before?

I dont know what I am doing really - I have one thing on my mind and you guys can guess what that is :)

jim

... in response to Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 10, 2003

Hi Jimmy!
  Me too!  I will be in Peru for Christmas to see the woman I met in
August.  I will be in Lima from Dec. 20 - Jan 6th.   It'll be interesting
being in Peru for Christmas and New Years.   It should be a good
experience though!   Hope things go well with you.   I might try to visit
Hotel Paracas.

... in response to Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 10, 2003

Jimmy I do not want to take wrong what I am trying to say to you. I
went down to Peru and got my wife down there in Lima. I was in a trance
I loved that girl to death. I saw nothing wrong and I thought I was in
heaven. She claimed she loved me too. When I ask her mother for
permisson to marry her. Her mother explained to me the bad parts of
her daughter. She could not cook... I thought hey I will teach her when
she gets here. She did not clean her house.... I figured hey she will learn.
She had been writing alot of other men at the same time as me. I made
her promise to stop writing everyone. Her family was use to having a
maid to do everything, but I will say I did see her mother do alot of
cleaning and cooking. Her mother made food that was like being in
heaven. My girl told me she would learn to cook before she came, We
had plenty of time so I figured it would be alright.

 Well what I ended up with was a spoiled brat that acted like a 15 year
old girl that when she did not get her way would try to get back at me
any way she could that included writing other men. I blame myself for
alot of this because if I had opened my eyes and looked I would have
realized that this girl was a dead end. I got what I deserved because I did
not listen to what these other men here were saying. I thought that
everything was perfect it was not. Anyway dude please just enter this
with a clear head do not look at this the way you are for both your sakes,
if you want to have a good marriage take the bridle of that horse it is
your to lead, you are the man. I was not so I paid for it, it will not happen
again. By the way yes I am looking again because you know what I still
love those latin woman... so beautiful

Good luck dude and please tell us about Christmas down there I have
always wondered how it would be like down there at that time.

Chuck

... in response to Re: Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by Fuzzyone on Dec 11, 2003

Hi
THanks for the advice. A few thanks you said hit a little close to home.

I have "tested" this girl a whie back as far as writing to other guys is concerned.

My girl does not know how to cook but does clean some.

I am not too worried about her trading me in for another guy. I guess anything could happen over the long haul. But this girl is the one who is pushing the word FOREVER all the time.

I will play it by ear and see what happens.

Thanks

jim

... in response to Thanks, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 11, 2003

Well I just do not want someone to get burned like I did. My girl just
never learned how to cook. I do not think she ever will. That is cool that
she is not writing anyone else, it will save you alot of grief in the future
believe you me.  Do yo uplan on bringing her on a K1 visa or marry her
down there?

... in response to Re: Thanks, posted by Fuzzyone on Dec 12, 2003

Her family would never think of letting her come her without being married.

So a guess a civil service down there will be the way to go.

Te Amo Peru!

jim

... in response to Re: Re: Thanks, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 12, 2003

Well thats cool, that was one of the mistakes I made too. I should have
married her down there with her family in tow. We ended up getting
married here with my parents and her mother watching that was it.

... in response to Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 10, 2003

Great that you are able to return so soon. Nothing like being able to carry on the relationship in person.

However,

You admit that her age means she can't understand some things yet concerning your lifestyle here. You just posted your own red flag. She's going to have to catch on quick if you two are to have a good chance at making it. Mi peruana is the finest woman I have ever known, was mid 30's when we met, college educated and fluent in English and STILL there have been times when I felt like a babysitter. If you bring her here, it will be a WHILE before she is very self-sufficient, meaning YOU will be basically be taking care of her in most every way. Has she ever driven in Peru? If not, that can be a huge struggle that will fray your nerves and try your patience. And until she learns, she will be limited to where she can go without you, although maybe you live in an area that has good public transportation.

I also wonder along with others here if she would be content with staying in Peru, especially at her age. My wife still sees the USA as the Promised Land, she is SO grateful to be here and take advantage of the opportunities. The only way she would live there again would be part of the year after we retire. You definitely need to ask her about this.

If you have enough money to retire there at your age, that's OK. I would go crazy in Lima if I lived there year-round. Too many things I love doing here that I would miss, things you can't find there at all.

Most all of the married guys here send money to help our in- laws, or our working wives send some of their money, as in my case. do you have enough money to support your own family and help hers too, without working down there? Could you even find a job/business there that pays more than peanuts?

Sorry to sound negative, but these are some things you need to consider.

Good luck and have fun on your next trip. What are the dates you will be there? My wife and I will be there Jan.8-19th.

... in response to Re: Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by Red Clay on Dec 10, 2003

JimmySt..

I think its exciting that you find yourself open so easily to moving down there and out of the states.  I would be real darn careful of the reasons and expectations, though.

I DO NOT agree too much with the idea that your girl really needs to come back here.  Unless she is utterly chomping at the bit already, that is.  This concept that you will be babysitting someone...I have that experience with 'well educated AW' so why would I expect any different with a latina.  For my part, I will probably leave US like you, or try it on for size, anyway.  I find our quality of life falling quickly here in subtle ways.

You sound somewhat successful at 36 already and probably have very good instincts.  Go with them, with the aforementioned caveat about expectations.  If you are uncertain what I mean by that, go back and read some of Traveller's comments about trying to do business in Cali, etc.  If you expect business life to be similar to the way it is here, fuggetabowtit.  Colombia and Brazil were settled around the same time as N. America, yet the economies there are nowhere near as resilient as our own.  There reasons for that are both structural and pyschological.

I don't know you, but sense you are a 'think outside the box' type of person.  Possibly you can take a 2-3mo. Peruvian sabbatical without ending your life here?

Something else...by being with your girl in 'her world' for awhile will allow you to see her in the element of family, friends, and get to know her in a natural way.  Bringing her to US right away would build instant dependencies and can make it difficult for you to see her real behaviors.

Ciao,

Locii

... in response to Re: Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by Red Clay on Dec 10, 2003

Thanks for the advice

I appreciate the help because I am really trying to sort it all out now. I know i have stars in my eyes but I am trying to balance all things.

I will be in Peru from Dec 24 to Jan 4.

The bottom line is that I feel like I am the luckiest man in the world. It all boils down to what makes you happy - for me it is this one Peruana.

Te Amo Peru!

jim

... in response to Re: Re: Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 10, 2003

Too bad we will just miss you by a few days.

Good luck,
Dave

... in response to Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 10, 2003

I've often wondered if culture shock/financial strain is a big reason some of these relationships don't hold up over the long term. Yes, there are age differences, not really knowing each other and other factors but those have already been discussed at length.

So, what can a gringo do to help someone understand what life is really like here?

Have her read his hometown newspaper online? If she's not very good with English and you live in a decent sized city, there's probably a local Spanish publication you could substitute.

I don't watch much tube so maybe someone has an idea of a weekly TV show that truly reflects a lifestyle she might be adopting, as opposed, say, to "Friends" or "Sex and the City". Maybe they need to bring back "The Waltons" or "Archie Bunker" (haha) although I think "The Waltons" was a depression-era portrayal. Are "The Simpsons" or the "Hank Hill" cartoons the best, current representation of middle class America? ;-)

What about a movie you could send her or watch together? About a decade ago there was a pretty good flick called "Avalon" about an immigrant family in New York but since both of you are not going to be immigrants, maybe that genre is not the best choice. Other ideas?

This is stream of consciousness writing, just throwing the question out there. Maybe some of you have had luck with sitting down and sharing a lot about the specific cost differences, how much a child's education is going to cost, that healthcare/soc. security/pensions/401k's are big unknowns if you've got 20 years or more before retirement...in other words they'll be there, but they might be taxed like crazy.

Then there's the household and leisure time things...very few middle class families have a one-day-a-week housekeeper let alone a cook/maid/laundress. Places like Colombia have 18 national holidays...we have six (although most companies offer a couple of floaters to bring the total up to eight or ten). Generally speaking, vacation benefits are also less in the U.S. than abroad. Most middle class men and women mow their own lawns, shovel their own snow, do some household repairs, etc, etc.

Regards,

David

... in response to Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 10, 2003

Jim
I'm not 36 but I retired and live with my wife in Cali. The economy in Peru seems to be about the same as here so yes you should be able to live there comfortable on a third or less of what it takes in the US. Don't want to sound the cynic but wonder what your girl will think of the idea. Almost all the women in Cali who marry a gringo expect that moving to the US comes as part of the package.

... in response to Going Back to Peru for Christmas, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 10, 2003

Things are not what you think they are. When you are down there
during Christmas look at how many people have no jobs. There is alot of
them they work the streets selling anything they can or they turn to
breaking into other peoples houses. Wake your girl up you do not want
to bring her her in the state she is in she is thinking the usa is like what
she saw in the movies. Now you and I both know what this country is
about. My wife when she came from Peru was in shock even after I
showed her pictures and told her that it cost alot more money here. She
could not believe how rude people were here. It caused us alot of
problems. You had better hope she learns real quick how a household
runs because it will make things real hard.
 I got lucky in one regard when my wife came here her mother came
with her. Her mother showed her exactly what to do to clean everything.
I like my future ex-wifes mother very much. I will miss her. Unless you
have lots of money and you are retired forget about living down there, I
loved it down there to it was so nice in my mind. I did think about living
down there too but If I had I would be in big trouble now. I would have
no wife and no job.

 I wish you luck at Christmas it must be very nice down ther at that time.
You need to sit her down and talk to her. Be serious with her tell her
what is bad here, tell her the truth. So that you know owning property for
a business is not like here the laws down there are terrible. Plus if you
have money you can bribe any judge you want so even if you are wrong
you will win. Enjoy your self down there but you have won your woman
now is time to lay the cards on the table to her.... Good Luck