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Hi!
First of all thank's so much for your posts, although they are tragic in general. Secondly, good for you that you're being proactive on the anti-aging front. I used to weigh 375# and tetosterone gave me the will power I needed and the metabolism increase needed to lose 165# to 210#. I went from a couch potatoe to where I now work out daily at the gym. Thirdly, I believe your wife has a personality disorder(I still believe she's a narscissit). Please look up Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder on your search engine. All your posts blame yourself-She apparently has never had a long term successful relationship! A true narcissist is unbelievably charming at first-just read the stuff, especially by Halcoyn. Fourthly, this is a little out of line but I'm going to say it anyway. I believe you probably have self esteem issues going back to childhood, especially "fear of abandoment." You were obviously in a relationship with an abusive person. I read that if you STAY with an abusive person, then you were probably abused or negelected as a child. Thusly the abusive relationship feels normal to you. So do a little introspection about yourself, because at the end of the day that's all you or I have control over. An excellent book is "Loving The Self-Absorbed" by Nina Brown. A narcissist only truely loves themselves. They fake love for a time. People are pretty much like appliances to them(An appliance is important-imagine turning on the oven when you're really hungry and it don't work.). A narcissist has only one huge addiction. That is to be adored and idealized by others.They will go to any length to get it! However once they capture you, they lose interest. So stage one is idealization(you are put on a pedestal), then devaluing you begins, and lastly total disdain for you. LOOK IT UP!

... in response to To Pete, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 21, 2003

Hi Pete,

You are getting some good advice on this board, you should probably better listen to it.  Going from one major mistake to another is a bad idea.  

Living in a Latin American country has lots of downsides too. You will have to develop a great deal of patience which you seem to be lacking in these days.  At times day to day things can be very difficult to get done. It can be very frustrating.

You will go through the culture shock thing too, everybody does. Culture shock is different than homesickness, it usually takes six months to a year to hit after the new has wore off, and you are no longer a "tourist".  If you haven't experienced it, you may not understand what I talking about. It is at this point you could regret your decision very much.

I heard some advice one time that I try to remember about life, "when you find yourself in the bottom of a hole, stop digging".

mike

... in response to To Pete, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 21, 2003

Zorrowins, how do you go about getting evaluated for tetosterone?  I am not able to exercise, nor really control my appetite so I am stuck at about 280 pounds.  I have been pretty much static at this weight since 1995, but I am having more and more trouble carrying the weight.  I almost had gastric bypass surgery back in 2001, spent 5 months going through all the tests and preparations and then felt unsure about the doctor who was going to perform it and backed out about a month before the surgery was planned.  But I am stuck at this weight and it is affecting me more and now I have a child on the way so it would be real nice if I could ditch a lot of this weight and get down to 200 or 210 so I will be around to raise this child.

... in response to Re: To Pete, posted by lswote on Oct 22, 2003

One word to lose weight,  Atkins.  You can get really fast results and you get to eat.  Look into it

mike

... in response to Re: Re: To Pete, posted by denvermike on Oct 22, 2003

Yeah, I have used it.  But after about a month I got so bored with the food that I couldn't stick to it and when I went off the diet I went right back to where I was.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: To Pete, posted by lswote on Oct 22, 2003


Go Vegan. It's a lifestyle change in which you will lose weight, feel better, and be truly healthy. Guaranteed!!

I feel better than I did when I was in my twenties. I am now 44. Most people say I look like I'm in my thirties.

Bonus: You can also keep up with those young Latina hotties!!!

~Henry

... in response to Go Vegan!, posted by hwalker7 on Oct 23, 2003

Sorry, I don't do good without meat.  Tried it and never even made it one day without meat.  Legumes and other forms of protein just don't cut it with me.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: To Pete, posted by lswote on Oct 22, 2003

If you have no will power, how do you expect to loose the weight?

People who are fat are fat for a reason: they can not invision themselves thin in order to turn their dreams into reality.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: To Pete, posted by CaliAdvisor on Oct 23, 2003

Leave it to you to pitch in with inane dribble as a response.

Actually willpower is not the problem.  When I was younger I lost weight many times using willpower and even maintained it for periods of up to a year.  The problem for me is that you can't live your whole life with what you eat controlled by willpower.  What inevitably did me in after I had dieted or exercised myself to a good weight, was that I couldn't enjoy life and have willpower at the same time, so it became one or the other.  Sure I could lose weight if I ran 6 miles a night and watched what I ate.  Or rigorously followed a diet program.  But of course if I was out running or working out at the gym for an hour or two a day or on a special diet, I couldn't be spending the holidays with relatives just going with the flow or vacationing where all the foods were fattening and exercise was not possible or going to friend’s houses for dinner or going out for lunch at work with friends to the restaurant of the day that might not have a diet plate.  Situations I could completely control I did great with, but ordinary life where I had no control, or limited control I did terrible with.  More than once I had 3 or 4 months of hard work ruined in one Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas buffet or birthday party.  I would get off track and out of the willpower groove I had carved and it would take a long time to get back on track.

As usual CaliAdvisor you have given advice about something you know nothing about.  You sit on your moral high horse dispensing advice which sounds impeccable but in reality has no basis in real life situations and struggles.  I don't know the circumstances of your life as you never reveal anything about your life.  I don't even think the few tidbits you do tell can be believed.  You say you live in Cali, yet have made no effort to hook up with any of the other posters on this board who live there so it highly suspect that you live there.  So you reveal nothing of the mistakes you yourself have made in life (at least not directly, you reveal volumes about the mistakes you have made if you read between the lines) and yet offer glib, often harsh advice and expect it to be taken as informative, useful and even welcome.  Certainly it isn’t welcome by me, but of course that is no surprise.  But what probably would be a surprise to you if you paid attention is that I don’t think it is welcome by anyone on this board and I am at a loss to figure out why you post here except that you must get great satisfaction from seeing your words in print.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: To Pete, posted by CaliAdvisor on Oct 23, 2003

NT

... in response to Re: Re: Re: To Pete, posted by lswote on Oct 22, 2003

Bruce,
Actually that is a solution I didn't think off because usually here are lots of others.You have to be very strict and consistent.Your body will go in to "ketosis" and starts burning fat fast.Much faster than what any calorie/weight data would tell you.You can lose 3-4 lbs a week while still eating alot of calories.Ketosis has some downsides.You won't feel as good,usually although some peole say they do.
Some people report mental issues,like loss of concentration.
But it works.You just need to be very strict untill you get maybe a little below your goal and then work the carbs back in.I met a guy in the gym onetime.He was 185 lbs,looked real good.He said he had just got a divorce and he was 255 lbs 4 months before.He said all he ate was steak and salad,twice a day,and he was never hungry.Thats the other thing,no hunger.Eat a few carbs and the hunger will kick in big time.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: To Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 22, 2003

There is a growing body of research that seems to support that humans need more of a carnivore-based diet, high in animal-source proteins and fats, and with limited carbohydrates.  Of course, most people are eating diets high in carbs and fats, and some low quality protein sources.

I personally do not buy completely into the importance of ketosis, which is the basis of much of Dr. Atkins' books.  I think that one can have great results, and will feel much better, if you eat about 100 grams/day of carbs, which prevents most people from going into ketosis.  Also, it is better if you eat most of your carbs in the AM hours, and avoid them later in the day.  When you combine this diet with a consistent weight training program, you will be shocked at how quickly your body will respond and dramatically change.

For 30 years, I have been weight training consistently, with my workouts geared towards powerlifting.  However, my diet was along the lines of traditional low fat/high carb/moderate protein recommendations.  At about age 40, my body just wasn't able to handle the carbs like when I was younger.  Over the past 2 years or so, I converted to a high protein/moderate fat/low carb diet and I am incredibly pleased with the results.  Lost about 10 lbs. fat and gained about 15 lbs. muscle at an age when I expected to be losing muscle mass.  Should have done this years ago!

... in response to Re: Low Carb diets, posted by Jersey Mike on Oct 22, 2003

It can work without going in to Ketosis,but if you do go in to ketosis and maintain it you can lose alot of fat fast.This could be an option for a person who can not exercise much because of physical problems.
The other issue with low carb diets,especially if you are on again,off again is when you start the low carb diet you drop alot of water.Carbs help fat cells retain water.So you can lose 3 or 4 lbs but gain it back the next time you eat some carbs.
I was on basically low carb diets for about 10 years.I was not real stict and only once actually bought the keto sticks to check if I was in Ketosis.I would have the water gain and loss.But I was thinner then.Once I bought the line your body needs carbs,they should be most of your diet I gained weight,some of which I still have.I went from 165 lbs to 205.Back down to 185,mostly because of the hormones I take I think.
I tried the "zone " diet where you puposely eat fat to have a high content in your diet.Gained weight.
But I think one of the keys is carbs,particulary sugar,make you more hungry.People get in a vicious cycle with it,eating more and more carbs because they are hungry.A diet with lower carbs,high protien,moderate fat will keep you from getting unusual hunger attacks.
To me breakfast cerial is one of the worst things.I will eat alot of it because it tastes good.Gain lbs right away,mostly water,and be hungry again in 2 hours.
Question.Whats the problem with making love to an oriental girl?Answer: Your horny 2 hours later.
Take off of a common comment on oriental food.

Pete

... in response to To Pete, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 21, 2003

She does seem to have no conscience about it.To feel she deserves everything she has with no acknolagement where it came from,and at what cost to another human being.
Narcistic? Sociopath? maybe.Makes some  sense.And she can be so charming on a superficial level.And its all about her.She will even take money her son was given for a present and spend it on herself.Like you don't need this but I do.That always got my attention.
But I want to dwell on the solution.Thinking about her just messes up my  mind.

Pete

... in response to And - - , posted by Pete E on Oct 21, 2003

You know with these characterisations I just don't see how you could ever remotely say your wife is a good person.  Course you said Aaron was a good guy too and it was only shortly before he got banned that you finally started to question him and even then you looked at him more like something snapped then he was a bad person.

Some people look at the glass as half empty and some look at the glass as half full, but I think you look at a glass and if there is any water in it at all you just say that it is a good glass of water.  You seem eternally optomistic.  World needs a lot more people like that so I am not criticizing you, just making an observation.

... in response to And - - , posted by Pete E on Oct 21, 2003

The ONLY reason I know so much about NPD is I feel in love with one hard!! So I spent months researching her and at the end me! What was wrong with ME! Why did I put up with this verbably abusive woman? (By the way another characteristic of NPD is a feeling of entitlement.You could give  a Narcisisst $1,000,000 bucks and NOT even get a thank you or maybe even an acknowledgement!) At any rate they are like a drug. So now I know all the signs and can spot one immediately! I've also had to address some personal issues about my own personality! So get away ASAP!!! Believe me if she has NPD all my research states they NEVER change and to stay the hell away from them! Run Pete-Run!!! She'll destroy you! She'll take your soul! Good Luck!!!

... in response to So quit beating yourself up!, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 22, 2003

Wow,
You might be on to somthing here.Reading a little about it some of it does describe her.Ecpecially the entitlement.
Sounds like we were made for each other.Me the doormat,her the feet.And I'm the one feeling empathy for her while she the abuser feels none for me.One time I gave several thousand dollars to her family for something they said they needed badly.She didn't even say thanks and thought nothing of it when I pointed it out to her.
I guess the run part of your statement is the key.There is enough reason already to run.So maybe I just need to recognise enough of it in her to stay away and not try to look out for her.
I was thinking of another example,more of a sociopath I think.Scott Peterson,who very likely killed his wife and son and thought nothing of it.Everyone was so charmed by him.His wifes girlfriends thought he was the best husband.His wife parents couldn't imagine he had anything to do with it untill it  became very obvious he did.He had everyone conned and seemed so real about it they didn't get it.Hmm.Not saying she would kill,but the charming everyone.Rocio is very good at that.Even the psychologist we saw,and some of her friends ."I don't think Rocio is the type of person to do that",when she obviously did do that."
Probably why she is so convincing in denial.No conscience at all about lying or denial.Willing to say anything to protect her position.A story that keeps changing but she can always defend the newest version.So empathetic me thinks,wow,maybe she is telling the truth,she so obviously believes it,when she so obviously isn't.
Might be why we coud never talk anything out.She was defending herself insteasd of being willing to be honest.If I had a good point she would never admit it.Catch her in a lie she will never admit ity.Very frustrating trying to deal with someone like that.Hard for anyone.Impossible for an empathetic person.
Hmm.
I will admit there was a time in my life I thought  psycology was the answer to all problems.Then I got so tired of the analysis I went the other way totally.Probably the first time in years I admitted the analysis had somerthing to it.

Pete

... in response to So quit beating yourself up!, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 22, 2003

Don't you honestly think she should be panicked about losing her only means of suppport? Here she is basically making minimum wage in one of the most expensive areas of the country. Is she worried? Not at all! Guess what another symptom of NPD is "magical thinking." Is she quick to anger-but in general shows very little other emotions? Is she a control freak-control of everything(including YOU) is extremely important? Does she she herself as the perfect woman? Has she EVER apologized? Does she refuse critism and get VERY angry if you dare criticise her? At the same time she's very critical of you! If you answer yes to these questions-guess what? Yep you are living with a full blown Narcissist! They never change nor get help as they of course are perfect in every way! RUN Pete-Get AWAY!!! It's taken me over a year to recover.

... in response to And another thing Pete, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 22, 2003

Some of that fits.Some not.Hmm.

Pete

... in response to To Pete, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 21, 2003

Well the last part sounds right for sure.Seemed like she really wanted me untill she got me.Then a total change.
I wasn't abandoned as a child but I do have this personality that wants o pleasde other and look at it from their standpoint.I'm not sure I really need to go there if I can just get out of this situation.

Pete

... in response to Re: To Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 21, 2003

Not that you need any add'l prompting, but thought I would add my 2 cents to help bolster your new direction:

After 18 years, it took my wife leaving me to get myself to the point where I could see the truth.  I'm an analytical sort, and was desperate to understand how this could happen to me.  So I got my hands on some books that deal with relationship problems and found out that I was in the same category that has been detailed by Zorrowins.  The sad thing is that, deep inside, I've known that she had no love or empathy since our first year together - and still I could not bring myself to leave her.  Of course, I rationalized it any way I could - feeling that I couldn't abandon HER son (who I adopted) was always a good one.  Ironically, HER son grew up with a father/mother household, while OUR son now is raised primarily by me.  And, get this - her son is a ner-do-well who, at 21, is still living with me - while OUR son (although only 11) is a complete opposite - an angel!
I understand your approach to getting out as cleanly and on good terms as you can.  Others may disagree, but it's my approach as well, and I feel will keep your karma in a good space.
What's done is done - regardless of any details, such as her possibly having a boyfriend.  At this point, the ONLY important thing is that you really come to terms with who you are when it comes to relationships so that you never walk down that same road again.  As Zorrowins said, now that I am aware of these type of people, I can spot them pretty quickly and, when I do, the sirens and red flags start screaming!  I highly recommend that you follow his advice and pick up a few books regarding these issues so that you understand and learn.  One final note:  People are not made from cookie-cutters, so you will always be able to find some examples of how your wife does NOT fit that profile - but you have to look at the person/relationship as a whole, and from everything I've read (all your posts) - there doesn't seem to be any doubt that she fits the mold.  Thank you for sharing your story Pete - It's good to know that the board's concern for you has been a source of comfort.

Best of Luck

--gk

... in response to Re: Re: To Pete, posted by gkdrummer on Oct 22, 2003

Sorry you went through the same experience. You underscored why it's so important to get educated. Otherwise you and I are patsys for the next one who comes along. I believe at least 1 out of 50 to 100 women have NPD. Many of them are beautiful too!

... in response to Re: To Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 21, 2003

Right! What you described is called Empathy. The hallmark of NPD is they don't have empathy. It's not that a narcissist is witholding it-They don't have it and don't even realize they don't. That's why it's a mental disorder.