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Hi!
I'm new to the board, but have been montoring it for months. Now for my very elementary question. Why would a lady leave her home,family,people who speaks her language virtually a lifetime of relationships to move to the USA with a man much older than her that she barely knows? I live and work in the cold Northeast. I live in a nice but modest home and drive an older car. I'm a little perplexed on the LA women motivation. Please help me understand.
Thanks!

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

No text

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

You stirred up a hornets nest.  Have you learned anything?

Steve

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

Zorro,

The scenario you've outlined is one which we all should avoid. You've framed the question as sort of a worst case so I don't know that there is a good answer other than one many of us might not want to hear. Look at it from the other side (which IMHO is the only way to think about this): why on earth would a guy travel to another country, become involved with a woman (girl) too many years his junior, speak little or none of her language, invest too little time in learning who this person really is and ignore all kinds of red flags because she's young and gorgeous or "it just feels right"? I think that we spend entirely too much time here analyzing the woman's motivations (over which we have ZERO control) and too little time analyzing and improving our abilities (over which we have COMPLETE control) to recognize good character and to choose someone based on criteria that are much more important in the long run than looks and hots. BTW, I am NOT saying that we ought not be aware of nor try to zoom in on her motivations. I'm only saying that it seems to me that too much time is spent focusing on this one aspect to the exclusion of other things that are just as, if not more, important.

Two recent episodes here attest to this. Both Craig and Pete have told us that the warnings were there and to their credit both admitted that they chose to ignore them and that they simply didn't make good choices initially. I've followed the board going on four years now and this story has been repeated several times. Just search the archives, the men usually own up to the fact that their judgement was clouded and typically they don't blame the woman.

If you want to radically improve your chances for success in this endeavor, improve the things that you can control. Your ability to recognize those attributes that make for good character and to not allow your judgement to become clouded. And be realistic about what to expect. We cannot control a single thing about these, or any, women. We CAN control a great deal of things about ourselves.

As for the motivation of LW, I can only add that in Colombia (I have NO experience elsewhere and haven't a clue as to why a very young woman would do this) a woman's prospects for marriage or re-marriage are VERY slim as she approaches her mid-thirties. Even slimmer if she has a child or two. Most of them (women thirty-ish and beyond)want nothing more than a loving, happy relationship with a man and couldn't give a whit about where he's from. And the one's in their thirties w/o kids usually want them BAD. We like them because for the most part, they are more attractive than many caucasion or black women in the US and they like us because we represent another possibility for a family, and yes, a better lifestyle than they might find in Colombia. Although I'm not buying that entirely because many of the women I met during my first visit were living pretty darn good lifestyles. These were all professional (doctors, dentists, etc.) women who would have been sacrificing a great deal to come here. But they wanted children and a family more than a career (this is one thing about Colombian culture that is unquestionably different from ours, family is paramount) and that combined with the dim prospects in Colombia for marriage was the driving force in their looking here.

Fire away.

JR

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by JR n Atl on Oct 4, 2003

"I think that we spend entirely too much time here analyzing the woman's motivations (over which we have ZERO control) and too little time analyzing and improving our abilities (over which we have COMPLETE control) to recognize good character and to choose someone based on criteria that are much more important in the long run than looks and hots. "

This pretty much sums up my beliefs in a nutshell. It's up to you to choose wisely.

As far as whatthe motivations of these women are, its up to you to determine this on a case by case basis. But generally, based on my experience (what many women have told me, friends, family of my fiancee), is that they are looking for a decent man, who is faithful, hard working, respects women and loves them. Looks are also important...but remember, the typical latinos in many of the countries are not very attractive (according to those women I've spoken with) and we are also exotic (light skin, blue eyes, blond hair, etc.) Again, the key is to be the best person you can be, head screwed on right, life in order and this will help you choose wisely. Also, take your time...many of the failed relationships are because of a rushing.

Tim.

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by JR n Atl on Oct 4, 2003

I agree that family is paramount, I've yet to be involved with a Colombiana that didn't want me to meet her family. My most recent experience was with a woman 28 years old who was feeling pressure from her family because she had not married and had no children. I elected not to be the answer to her perceived problem, but nevertheless, family is king. I just love it!
JSlo

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

I think that true green card whores are extremely rare. Think about it, a women who could fake love and great sex for you over a period of about three years til she's a non-conditional permanent resident, then bail takes an acting ability Robert DeNoiro would be proud of.

Here's the big BUT: The fantasy, that a rich American man could travel clear across the world, to their little puebla and pick them out of the crowd, coupled with their perception of what life is like in the US from TV and movies, and you have the makings of a very strong fantasy. Unfortunately when they get here, they find out what life is really like, digging out of the snow, paying bills, doing yard work, ironing shirts, and suddenly the fantasy is shattered, and feelings of isolation and lonliness come crashing in. My wife went through it - even though she had a car and we live in one of the nicest areas of Southern California. She got through the worst of it, though.

As Patrick implied, you reveal much about yourself when you mentioned "a much older man."  Just curious, what's the appeal of a "much younger" women? No I'm not an idiot, aside from the hard body? Can you relate to a 25 year old? Are you interested in doing the same things, going the same places, dreaming the same dreams? If not, you'd be a moron to marry her, unless, like one poster said here, you know it's just temporary and are planing to get laid as much as possible before she bails. That sounds like something I'd have said when I was 18 - but now at 50, my wants and needs are altogether different.

Women all over the world want the same thing, safety, security, companionship, love, and a closeness to one person that can only be achieved with true, long range trust and comittment. Marriage is a continual work in progress. No one knows each other when they're first married, not even childhood sweethearts, it takes time and work to develop into a real relationship.

The BIG difference between women in LA or Asia, as opposed to to the US or Western Europe, is that they recognize that they're women - different from men. They don't want to be men, act like men, nor have any adversarial relationships with men. They recognize that men and women are different and non-interchangeable - that men and women compliment each other, not compete with each other, something any AW and European women have forgotten. But most of all they let men be men, and don't try to nag them into being their own vision of an emasculated pretty boy.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

- Jeff

... in response to Let me pipe in here,, posted by Jeff S on Oct 4, 2003

But you're not!!!

Tim.

... in response to Let me pipe in here,, posted by Jeff S on Oct 4, 2003

BRAVO!BRAVO! Well said JR and Jeff!

... in response to Let me pipe in here,, posted by Jeff S on Oct 4, 2003

Latin American women seem to enjoy being women. They don't have the women's lib attitudes that American women have. They want to compliment men rather than compete with them. This is a long-lost quality in American women.

Zack

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

These women are so fed up with the Colombian machistas and their multiple girlfriends that they are willing to sacrifice everything and move to another country just to marry a good man. My novia's dad has fathered five children, all from different women during his marriage, and his wife is still with him. She can't just leave and expect to find another man considering her situation. Extra-marrital affairs are more accepted in Colombia and many women end up trapped in an unhappy marriage.

Some Colombian women refuse to tolerate this and that is one reason why they are willing to leave everything to be with a faithful man. Obviously the American lifestyle is an important factor also.

Zack

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by zack on Oct 4, 2003

On the one hand we have latinas tired of dealing with machista latinos that think it is fine to have 5 kids with different women while married. OTOH, we have "pros" telling us we should be more like Colombian men? Pretty silly. The last people I want to emulate are these guys.

So the two main reasons we hear for latinas wanting a gringo are:

1- the fact that we are more likely to be better, more faithful husbands.

2-we have the means to provide better, and provide more material things, plus a better future.

3- would be  residency, but we usually downplay that one

So CaliPro suggests we stop being the men the latinas think we are. We should be more like Colombians. Not marry women that already have kids etc.

That will leave us with materialistic greencard sharks. yep, that is a great strategy.

... in response to catch 22, posted by Ralph on Oct 7, 2003

Ralph

I was suggesting that if american men in general were not so open to the idea of marrying somebody else's ex-wife with children things would go alot better for guys here in the states (with american women).

Colombian women in Colombia are already well under control. It isn't until some guys bring their wives here that problems can arise.

... in response to catch 22, posted by Ralph on Oct 7, 2003

He's had one (or is it two?) of them so far, so the strategy must work.

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by zack on Oct 4, 2003

On the one hand we have latinas tired of dealing with machista latinos that think it is fine to have 5 kids with different women while married. OTOH, we have "pros" telling us we should be more like Colombian men? Pretty silly. The last people I want to emulate are these guys.

So the two main reasons we hear for latinas wanting a gringo are:

1- the fact that we are more likely to be better, more faithful husbands.

2-we have the means to provide better, and provide more material things, plus a better future.

3- would be  residency, but we usually downplay that one

So CaliPro suggests we stop being the men the latinas think we are. We should be more like Colombians. Not marry women that already have kids etc.

That will leave us with materialistic greencard sharks. yep, that is a great strategy.

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by zack on Oct 4, 2003


Exactly my experience...my fiancee's father has also fathered children outside of his marriage and his wife still lives with him because of the alternative. One of my fiancee's uncles has over 30 children!

Typically the men are unfaithful, extremely jealous, abusive, lazy, etc. But, interestingly, they also has many good attributes as well. I love her father and uncles, and I got along wonderfully with other men there. Very friendly, warm, good since of humor, etc. They just normally do not make good husbands.

Tim.

... in response to Re: Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Starman on Oct 6, 2003

Agreed. I get along with my novia's father fine- very friendly, warm, etc. Just not a good husband.

30 children??  My God. And I thought I was born with an overdose of testosterone.

Zack

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

You say you are 55. Well you should be able to get a pretty nice looking 35 year women with a kid. No problem.
Why? Because any colombian guy with any means at any age would never marry a women 35 years old with another guys kid. If this sounds good to you, get on the plane now because it is easily attenable. Why? Because what you want colombian guys don't want. I am here to tell you the hard cold facts. A colombian guy 55 years of age with money would rarely ever consider marrying a 35 year old women with another guys kid no matter how beautiful the women was. Maybe if she was a super model they would pay the rent on her apartment and thats a big maybe.

But you have to remember you are going to bring her back here. Eventhough she should kiss your butt every day of her life for having married her when colombian guys wouldn't, she won't. Why? Because her value will have increased considerably the moment she arrives here. Why? Because she will be surrounded by sex starved american guys that would like nothing better than to take your some what attractive wife with somebody elses child off your hands. What a pathetic situation we have created for ourselves. We should all (as men) take a good look at colombian men and learn a little something. If guys stopped marrying other guys ex-wifes with children women wouldn't be divorcing their husbands near as much.

Don't buy the bull about the women that will marry you for a green card. Sure they are around. But, if you want to and can compete head to head with colombian guys for the most beautiful women colombia has to offer better drop me a line. So I can introduce you to some drop dead beautiful women that will turn their noses up to any american that doesn't meet her standards. Why? Because even they don't know what their little asses are worth in the states.

It's late and I just got back from celebrating a good friends birthday so this maybe a little to straight forward to handle. But don't let the negative aspects of searching for a wife down south turn you away. There is a reason why we all go down there and it's a good one. I hope you can find it to.

Calipro

... in response to I'll give you the low down., posted by Calipro on Oct 4, 2003

Calipro you are right on target.  No Colombian man will marry a Colombian woman with kids.  I have a friend that married a Cali girl with two kids and he told me the same thing.  He is happily married and actually wanted to marry a Colombian woman with at least two young children.  Why? he said he loves children and has a young son.  Nonetheless,
I have noticed there are very few men here that married a woman without kids.  I think the agencies will try to vigourously promote the women with children.  I believe the reason is Colombian patriotism and they aren't to crazy about gringos marrying the extremely attractive young Colombians with no kids.  It seems all the worst horror stories are with women with children.  "With kids" "Without kids"  worlds apart.

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

Why would most Mexicans risk everything to sneak across the border to gain entry into the US?  It's very simple - as long as there are plentiful jobs paying $7/hour in the US, which there are - compared to 50 cents in Mexico or 20 cents in Asia - they will come.

PS "I'm new to the board, but have been montoring it for months" creates a troll alert, especially with responses like senge's

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

I love zorro wins for a handle

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

I love zorro wins for a handle

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

I'd suggest not looking for a much younger extremely attractive woman.  Instead look for an attractive woman of reasonable age who you've developed a relationship over considerable time. Someone who's shares common interests, goals, spirituality, and has a similar level of life experience.  Look for character.  You'll be way ahead of the pack who's mentality is "Why should I travel South to marry a woman I only as attractive as I could get here?"  Anyone who does this just to get a nice piece of arm candy is being foolish IMHO.

I did it because I think that in general you're more likely to find a woman who shares conservative values with you and has a more traditional image of marriage.  I married a woman who's now 41 (I'm 44).  Best (romantic) decision I ever made.

... in response to Damn good question, posted by Patrick on Oct 4, 2003

You are basically saying that the main priority for any American man in trying to find a foreign bride is to find someone with a good character (which you cannot determine in only a few weeks), similiar interest (which you cannot determine without spending a significant amout of time with her), and and similiar goals (which is highly unlikely if she is 20 years younger than you).  

This, as opposed to flying down South and joining an agency where women are hearded in front of you like cattle, and you go on mass dates with women 15-20 years younger than you, who you really know nothing about other than how they look, and end up marrying one of them 2 weeks later.  

Well, I agree with you 100%.  I would like to know who else agrees with this...or disagrees?

... in response to So Patrick..., posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

Your "cattle call" image of the Colombian agencies is not far from the truth.  The women have their free will, but the men are holding some powerful cards and as a consequence get treated with far more affection than they probably deserve.  But it's a lot of fun.

Meanwhile, it reminds me of the current Telemundo TV show, La Cenicienta where one woman is dating, kissing, and who-knows-what-else with 5 or 10 men that are chasing only her.  Not any different than what we are doing in the agencies but she and her family seem to think that it is completely normal.  If you understand Spanish, it is very educational.

And this week her beautiful, best friend started making passes at some of the guys just to make the show more scandalous.

Steve

... in response to La Cenicienta Revisited, posted by DallasSteve2 on Oct 4, 2003

I tried to get my crew to watch it but Univision programs rule so it seems (hint guys - you must have 2 TVs with Colombianas in the household).  I tried to watch the 1st episode and the gringo beach dude somehow was in the hunt.  Steve - turn off those damn soaps - it's football time!  And Baylor beat Colorado today!  That probably means my raiders will be upset by A&M tonight, sh%t!

... in response to Is the Gringo still in the hunt?, posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

Sorry guys, there was one gringo in the bunch but he was eliminated.  To me he looked a little goofy.  Not a great representative for us.  And he didn't show good judgment.  On his first date with her he brought an art book of photos of naked people.  She is somewhat conservative and was turned off by the book.  Not a good choice for an icebreaker on a first date.

My favorite was the oldest guy.  He was a Latino television newscaster.  (A talking head)  He was 20 years older than her (early 40s) and a handsome man.  He probably had more class than the rest.  When he saw she was not responding to him he withdrew from the competition before she could eliminate him.  Classy move in my opinion.

Steve

... in response to So Patrick..., posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

There's a huge difference between visiting an agency and going on one of those "tours".  Just buy your plane ticket and go - then give us an Aaron report.  Read the former posts - you don't even need to join an agency - most accept walkups.

... in response to cows? - senge you're about to piss me of..., posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

Cancunhound,

We are in the same boat here, and on the same side.  I use a dating service called Cherry Blossoms and I am preparing to use the new agency for women of Equador.  

It's just that I am not going to use these agencies/services to find the first pretty young thing that batts her eyes at me.  I'm going to find a woman closer to my age, because I know she has life experience that matches mine.  I'm going to just concentrate on maybe 2 or 3 woman so my attention and devotion is not diluted, and I'm going to take at least a year of getting to know her before I make any committment of marriage to her.

So, don't be pissed off.  We're doing the same things, only a bit differently.

... in response to Re: cows? - senge you're about to piss m..., posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

Why are you going to Equador if you say you want a Pinay?

... in response to Re: cows? - senge you're about to piss m..., posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

I'm not pissed, but be carefull relating cattle to Colombian women - I take offense at that.  I believe I see your logic - a method - a plan.  Well, tell us how it pans out.  My bet is the minute you get off the boat your plan will be scrapped.  If you're ready to get into a relationship, just buy a ticket - good things do happen - you will know pretty quick when it's right.  You've got the advantage of youth - unless you've got a hunchback and are albino you'll score well with the 20+ latinas.  Hell if you want send me a couple of pics to forward to some Calenas for you.

... in response to Too much of a plan senge, posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

Hell, I'll take you up on that offer, photo is in the mail. I'll be in Cali Oct 22 or 23 for 5 days, haven't decided yet. I believe that senge will have the time of his life if he ever makes it down south, but I don't believe that he will report on how wrong his previous thoughts were. You really can't describe what to expect to a newbie, my first trip I only remember being overwhelmed which does not happen too often. Just have to wait and see.
JSlo

... in response to Damn good question, posted by Patrick on Oct 4, 2003

Reasonable levels of foul language are permitted.  I changed the language filter while back to allow some of the four-letter words to post after complaints about treating posters like children.

... in response to Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Zorrowins on Oct 3, 2003

[This message has been edited by senge]

Hi.  Some of these relationships do work, i guess.  But I truly believe that the vast majority do not.

To answer your question, I think mostly it is so that they can have the opportunity to establish themselves here (citizenship).  Also, once they're here, they can network with other hispanics their own age, thus increasing the opportunity to meet an American citizen who is a younger man, and possibly of latin decent.  In addition, many will gladly trade a few years of financial security for themselves and their family back home for putting up with an American man they have no real interest in.  Remember, a wife doesn't have to have sex with her husband.  She doesn't even have to communicate much with him.

Many men on this board will say that their age, looks, and length of communication time before marriage doesn't matter.  But then again, many of these same men have been divorced at least once.

Why do men pursue wives this way, when they have to know, deep inside, these marriages most likely won't work?  Well, I feel it's a question of experiencing a fantasy versus living reality.  Most people, if given the opportunity, will live a fantasy instead of face the harshness of reality.  Reality for most men here (including myself) is that they can't find and secure a relationship with a hot young latina here in the USA.  So the idea of marrying a hot young latina becomes a fantasy.  But...we have this incredible thing here called 'agencies' which allows you to fly down to Columbia and flash your money and your American nationality to some poor and desperate LW and guess what...your fantasy becomes a reality!!  Isn't that great!

Well, I'm one of the few men on this board (I think) who will gladly bypass 2 or 3 years of a sexfilled-yet emotionally bankrupt relationship for an opportunity for having an honest and honorable lifelong relationship.  This is why I am seriously considering filipinas now.  I was very enthusiastic about meeting a latin woman from Peru.  But I've been reading the ASIAN board and it seems those relationships there are much more stable than those on the LATIN board.  

senge

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

senge

You are scaring me! I can't believe you are going to make life decisions based on what people have posted on this board or any other board. You need to buy some plane tickets fast and find out for yourself how things are.

Sure a relationship with a filipina maybe a little more stable and subdued. But, do you really want to be married to a midget with the figure of a ten year old girl that will cook your dog for dinner?

... in response to Re: Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Calipro on Oct 4, 2003

Thanks for the laugh!

... in response to Re: Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Calipro on Oct 4, 2003

Damn Wayne

    I wish I had said that. Thats the best shot I have ever seen on this board. Jim C

... in response to Re: Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by Calipro on Oct 4, 2003

Actually Calipro, many filipinas are as attractive as LW, especially since filipinas have spanish blood in them.  I am a member of Cherry Blossoms (you should see the cute pinays!!), not an agency.  I would prefer to email and chat with someone for a few months before travelling to see her.  Also, I tend to concentrate on one lady at a time, out of respect for her and me, as opposed to the 'quantity over quality' approach.

I just don't agree with looks being more important than character.  But then again, I actually WANT to be married until 'death do us part' (an interesting concept?)

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naiv..., posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

[This message has been edited by Calipro]

If you woke up in the middle of the night and your bed was surrounded by naked filipinas you would probably be delighted. While I on the other hand would be scared to death thinking that I was being abducted by space aliens!!

One mans dreams are another mans nightmare if you know what I mean.

... in response to senge, we are two different hombres....., posted by Calipro on Oct 6, 2003

I may not agree with you, but I have rarely laughed so hard!

... in response to senge, we are two different hombres....., posted by Calipro on Oct 6, 2003

ouch!

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

I'm not certain that asians will be a better source of "wife material" than latinas, but based on the many threads in both the asian board and the latin board, it seems that the latin board's content is much more oriented towards quick sex and the eventual disappointment of divorce than.  I'm not the only one who believes this...posters on the asian board have made similar claims.

With that being said, I'm not saying that AW are better than LW, or vice versa.  I'm just saying that MY main point in seeking a foreign wife is not to secure a sex kitten, but to have a lifelong partner, and it seems that (based on what i know of my asian friends, census reports, and board threads) that AW are more apt to stay in a marriage and not be so hard to deal with than LW.

In fact, many posters here have already admitted that LW have unusually impassioned tempers and can be nearly impossible to deal with when they're jealous are angry.    

Spend some time reading the threads on the Asian board and do a comparison...you will find that there are many more success stories there than here.

Still, i do have an interest for latin women, especially Peruvian and Mexican.  So, its not either or with me.  I just want to better my chances of finding a wife by interacting with asian females along with latin females.

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

Have you ever been to the PI? How many filipinas have you met? In 20 years in the Navy I have probably been there 50 times. Living in San Diego, I deal with them almost daily. I like the filipino people but would rather drive a burning stake through my heart than marry one. I have seen so many young American sailors fall in love with a lady in PI, marry her and bring her back to the states only to have her leave for a filipino already here. I have seen such marriages be very successful but less than 10%. The filipino people are much less accepting of interracial marriages than latinos. Your filipina wife will be under incredible pressure from other filipinos to leave you and join her "own" people once she is here. Latinos are much more willing to assimilate with the general population than filipinos. If you would like to know what you are in for try becoming a part of the filipino community in a social setting. Be prepared to be completely ignored. You are not wanted there and if you have a filipina wife she will be ostrisized (sp) and you will be rejected completely. Filipinas with American husbands can only socialize with filipinas with American husbands. I wish you luck. You will need it regardless of where you look. It is not your money or citizenship that will ensure a successful relationship, its your heart. Put your heart on your sleeve and see who bites. Then you will know.

... in response to You've got to be kidding!, posted by littlebhuddha on Oct 4, 2003

I met an American who had been married twice to Philipinas. Each one left him, their Philipina girlfriends saying "you can do better than him" after they had their green cards.

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

quote:
"But...we have this incredible thing here called 'agencies' which allows you to fly down to Columbia and flash your money and your American nationality to some poor and desperate LW and guess what...your fantasy becomes a reality!! Isn't that great!"

WTF?  You really need to travel a little before offering credible advice.  Maybe the latinas in British Columbia are "poor and desperate", I couldn't say - I haven't been there and really don't care to.  Now in Colombia, SA - you should not venture there if that is your perception of latinas.  Please go to the Phillipines.

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

I believe that as long as you aren't looking for a hot young piece of arm candy, then you can find a good woman for a lasting marriage in any place.  A man's results depend way more on himself than where he goes.  That said, I think there's a higher preponderance of men seeking women primarily for their sex appeal in Latin America than in the Philippines.  There's more emphasis on sex on the Latin board than the Asian board.  It's not the women that (may) make marriages to Latinas less successful, it’s what the men are seeking.

Perhaps it also has something to do with the different approaches. Agencies are illegal in the Philippines.  You can't go there and experience the "kid in the candy store" syndrome like you can in many Latin countries (especially Colombia).  You can't go to an agency in the Philippines and meet women.  Men looking for Filipinas either use pen-pal type agencies, meet women on-line through chat rooms, or get in contact with women through acquaintances.  I suspect that a correspondence period followed by a visit probably rends to de-emphasizes the sexual attraction that drives many men in Latin America.  Latin women tend to dress more provocatively as well.  Perhaps that's a factor also.

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

I felt compelled to post a contrasting point of view as I consider the first response skewed and contradictory. Contradictory in the sense that the poster says that I will consider filipinas and basically no more latinas, whereas the process and laws governing immigration is basically the same. You will find latinas and filipinas willing to leave everything behind to have an opportunity to experience self-fulfillment, something that exists in small quantities in their countries. If they can find a man they are truly interested in so much the better as they can have love and the opportunity to express themselves. I have stated before that the majority of men that I have met in my travels to south america (not only Colombia) believe that American citizenship equals pick of the litter while in reality they themselves were sad cases. They thus become vehicles for the woman to realize her dreams and love really never enters the picture although the man will confess his love to the nations. I do not believe in agencies (they work for some) and it is my belief that if the man does not speak some spanish he is setting himself up to be a vehicle and/or failure in SA. Communication is vital!!!
I could debate point by point the posters point of view with relative ease, but I believe that a person of average intelligence can see that his argument for the most part is baseless and without merit. If traditional values are dear to you, if you take your time, have the resources to travel and are satisified with self, then you will have no problems finding a latina that is filled with beauty internally as well as physically. She will treat you as a man and expect you to take the lead in the family arrangement. That is the biggest difference for me between AW and latinas. I believe in traditional values and I will look where my needs will be met. If I found an AW with the values that I cherish, she'd be a serious contender as well. I'm faced with the problem of selecting the right one as I have several contacts that I have made in SA, I made it a point to inform each one that I am seriously looking for a wife and they are not the only one I'm talking to. I can only hope that I make the right decision, but time is my ally as I'm in no rush.
JSlo

... in response to Re: Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by JSlo on Oct 4, 2003

Come on, JSlo,

Baseless and without merit?

... in response to Re: Newbie Question-Perhaps Naive, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

Senge

I'll speak for the men who would chase the fantasy, since I've done so.

If I'm going to spend my money on a woman it's going to be someone I'm excited about being with.  That wasn't happening here in the US.  I knew the risks involved and decided that at my age I was willing to take a chance.  You only live once, and I want to feel that I experienced some of the good life while I was here.  Now I have.

I already made a family with children when I was younger so it's not as important to me whether this marriage lasts forever or not.  I hope it does.  If she wants to stay, that's fine with me.  If not, at this point I can handle being alone, too.  I don't think I would go back for another wife at this point, but that's me.

My question for you is "Why do you think that the Filipines will be a better source of wife material?"  It seems to me that the motivations for them coming to the US are going to be very similar to the motivations for Colombian women to come to the US.  Please don't tell me that you believe everything you read on the Cherry Blossoms website.

Steve

... in response to Colombian Fantasy Chaser Responds, posted by DallasSteve2 on Oct 4, 2003

DallasSteve you make an excellent point when you said...

"I already made a family with children when I was younger so it's not as important to me whether this marriage lasts forever or not. I hope it does."

Herein lies what I feel is the main difference in philosophies in posters on this board.  The vast majority of men  here have 'been there, done that' with the marriage/children thing.  Once you go through that first divorce, you never really have the same respect for the common idealogy of dating, courtship, and lifelong marraige.  

2nd or 3rd marriages for divorced men are like leasing cars; enjoy something new and fresh and then give it back in a few years...Is'nt that the underlying assumption with most posters here?

There's nothing wrong, per se, with that type of mentality, but I have never been married and I'm sick of the single scene.  I want to try the 'happily ever after' deal first, and if I should get a divorce, then I would probably be like most of the guys here and go the agency-rent-a-wife route too.

... in response to Re: Colombian Fantasy Chaser Responds, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

Senge

You asked a question:

2nd or 3rd marriages for divorced men are like leasing cars; enjoy something new and fresh and then give it back in a few years...Is'nt that the underlying assumption with most posters here?

I've got an answer:

That is not the underlying assumption with most posters here, IMO.  I didn't leave my Colombian wife.  She left me.  I tried to get her to come back, even though I knew she had been running around with another man.  I wasn't planning to give her back in a few years.  She was.

I think if you look at most of the failed marriages here the woman decided to bolt.  That doesn't fit the pattern you've described.  Call us foolish if you wish, but our intentions are honorable in most cases.  I'm surprised more of the men here haven't called you on this one.

Steve

... in response to Woah!, posted by DallasSteve2 on Oct 4, 2003

Actually, Steve,

I would bet the reason for why these women left the men can be traced to poor decision making from the man.  Lets face it, and its hard to face, but the use of agencies to attain a spouse is a gross abomination of tradition courtship rituals in America and many other countries, including latin American countries.  Certain male/female courtship patterns, which have been passed down from generations, are corrupted, if not completely ignored, when men choose the 'agency' route.  The rituals of dating a woman; including asking her out every Saturday night, hanging out with mutual friends, going out on group dates, calling her when you get home from work or school, bonding with her through time spent together, introducing her to your guy friends and meeting her girl friends, spending Thanksgiving with her family, going from being just friends to boyfriend/girlfriend/to serious relationship/to engaged to married...all of this stuff is nearly completely disregarded when we use agencies.

And what is important to understand here is that all of those traditional rituals are traditional for a reason...they usually work!  So a relationship that is not based on traditional male/female courtship patterns is a relationship that is more than likely to fail.  Which is why most people don't do this agency stuff.  Think about...would have used agencies when you were a young stud of 25 years old?  You think you can go to any club or bar on a Saturday night and find at least one guy who has used 'agencies' in the past 12 months?  I bet you can't.

Lets face something else, I use Cherry Blossoms and most men here use agencies because the traditional route just didn't work for us, and we are too discouraged, lazy, or spurned to go back to the traditional ways of finding a girlfriend/wife. So we turn to these 'services'.  

The bottom line is that we men use agencies/services for 2 reasons; 1) we can't find younger, attractive woman for marriage here in the USA, and 2) it's a damned simple, efficient, and a quick way to cure our longing for female companionship and to coerce a pretty young thing into a legal committment to us.  Bottom line.

What it isn't is a reliable method of finding a partner for a marriage that will more than likely last until death...not just for a few years, but until you grow old and die.

Now, I'm no hypocrite.  I am contemplating using an agency if Cherry Blossoms doesn't work for me.  But I would not use an agency the way most men here use them.

My overall point is this; for you to imply that it is the LW's fault that these marriages failed, and not at least EQUALLY the fault of the American men who ignored trational courtship patterns, is an implication without merit.

... in response to Re: Woah!, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

Senge

I agree with your followup post in most respects.  However, it's a much different message than your earlier post.  Earlier you implied that many of the men here only want the woman for a few years and then they will look for a new one.  As I pointed out, I think you're wrong about that.  

I do agree that many of the failed foreign marriages are the result of poor decision making by the man in choosing the woman.  My last divorce certainly was.  However, they are also often the result of dishonesty on the part of these women, as mine also was.  We can argue chicken/egg on that one forever, but I'm not interested in spending any more time on that.

Steve

... in response to Re: Woah!, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

I have become a big fan of agencies/computer dating.  For whatever reason, it seems to be increasingly difficult to meet women through the normal course of events.  These organizations simply provide the opportunity to provide introductions between women who are interested in meeting men.  I think the key is to recognize that they can only provide an introduction.  The rest is up to you.

... in response to Re: Woah!, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

a little more resonable but still to cynical. I think you are going the right direction with the filipinas. I just hope you aren't to fond of your dog.

... in response to You're sounding ....., posted by Calipro on Oct 4, 2003

This is the true definition of a sterotypical comment. Am I to assume, all filipinas quieren taco chihuahua? You're too much!
JSlo

... in response to Re: You're sounding ....., posted by JSlo on Oct 4, 2003

Come on, anyone following this board for very long knows that Calipro has the depth of a child's wading pool.  Did you really expect him to talk about anything other that the physical attributes of the women?  But frankly, Asian women don't do anything for me either, though I wouldn't go so far as to describe their figure as 10 year old boys.  But haven't seen many Asian with very large breasts and that is a must-have requirement for me.

... in response to Re: Re: You're sounding ....., posted by lswote on Oct 5, 2003

Iswote

I described their figures as 10 year old GIRLS!!!!!

 NOT BOYS!!!!

I'm not obsessed with breasts like you are. It is just that the figures of fillipinas remind me of children thats all.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: You're sounding ....., posted by Calipro on Oct 5, 2003

Sorry, I couldn't find your original post so I was going from memory.  And while I agree that Asians don't do anything for me either, we have well respected posters on this board who are married to Asians and there is no need to insult Asians to make your point.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: You're sounding ....., posted by lswote on Oct 5, 2003

If the Philipina doesn't have big enough breasts, you can just buy her new ones, get her a job at hooters, and brag about how she worked at a strip club;-)

Typical, junior high school type comment. I am sure a Colombiana is the best choice if her condom filled with coke doesn't burst on the flight from Bogota;-)

... in response to You're sounding ....., posted by Calipro on Oct 4, 2003

CaliPro

I like your taste in women, your digital camera, and your sense of humor.  

Steve

... in response to Re: Woah!, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

senge you need to understand that not everyone here has used an agency.  If you don't have connections, well an agency is the easiest path from A to B.  I'm throwing my 2 cents in to try to help fellow gringos that would take this marraige dive, as I did years ago - without any assistance.  Before you do anything, check with your local Colombian, Asian, whatever group in your area - maybe you can get hooked up without all this MOB business.  If you don't have a passion for latinas - do not go south, simple as that.

... in response to Woah!, posted by DallasSteve2 on Oct 4, 2003

Not to raise an alarm here, but I have seen this scenario where the latina already has a boyfriend in the US - the gringo is just the vehicle to get her there.  I hope this is rare - but it was predetermined.  Other than that, you've gotta look 50/50 if the marriage doesn't float - whose fault that is.  senge I believe needs to step up to the plate and take a stab at AW before venturing to LA - latinas will tear him up.

... in response to decided to bolt, posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

I think the cases where the foreign bride already has another man in the US exist, but are a small minority of the failed marriages.  More often I think that they meet someone here after they arrive.

You wrote: "Other than that, you've gotta look 50/50 if the marriage doesn't float"

Do you still think it's 50/50 if the woman knew she really didn't want to spend her life with the man, but she married him because he was her best shot to get into the US so she went for it (and she didn't bother to reveal that detail to him before they married)?

Steve

... in response to 50/50 ?, posted by DallasSteve2 on Oct 4, 2003

Meant 50/50 after they get here - same as in any other marriage - you just never know.  I'll bow to our more experienced members here on this one - myself pushing 38 I'm a young buck and as such "I am not authorized to provide that information".  I tend to believe that nobody should head off to BFE for a couple of weeks with ring in hand expecting to bring back a bride.  Just go, have a good time -  meet some interesting people, see some neat places, and you just may meet the "one" - it'll be instantaneous and obvious.  Could take 1 day, could take 3 years?  Myself, I went through 2 pairs of well maintained military issue boots, and I wasn't even looking!

... in response to Re: Colombian Fantasy Chaser Responds, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

What did you base your idea that once you have been through a divorce you never really have the same respect for lifelong marriage?  I certainly don't agree with that.

I have been married before, but the failure of that marriage made me all the more determined to find someone I could spend the rest of my life with.  I think guys with Calipro's attitude are the exception, not the rule.

... in response to Re: Colombian Fantasy Chaser Responds, posted by senge on Oct 4, 2003

for latin culture. Better go with the filipinas.