Planet-Love.com Searchable Archives

I took a few days off and just saw your problem. Better late than never, I'll add my sympathy and 'hang in there, guy' to the rest. As for advice, I see you already have a lot, only thing I can add is that what JunFan advised you to do is probably illegal in Calf, it sure as heck is in Texas and the courts have this little rule called 'discovery' (which her lawyer will be quite familar with and very adept at).....if you do make a cash stash, for goodness sake don't get CAUGHT.

... in response to Pete, posted by Michael B on Oct 4, 2003

After a very emotional break up and much research I determined my ex girlfriend has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Look it up on your search engine. Look at especially a site by Halcoyn. Narcissist are self absorbed-they have no empathy for others, feel entitled to everything(not grateful-not even a thank you), control freaks, very critical of others-easpecially you, yet do not accept critism(They become enraged of critism and if they lose control). Female narcissist are ALWAYS PERFECT. That is how they truely see themselves. So Pete-look it up(Narcissistic Personality Disorder). Oh-one more thing the pattern in a relationship with one is always these 3 phases-(1)Idealize you-put you on a pedestal. This makes you feel indescribably happy and content. Beyond one's wildest dreams. (2) Then comes devaluing you. Demeaning-critical-never good enough. With absolute rages. (3) the last phase is total disdane. At this point your relationship is toast!

We stupid men keep trying to get her back to (1). Ain't gonna happen.

Good Luck!

... in response to Re: Pete-Does Wife have a Narcissistic P..., posted by Zorrowins on Oct 4, 2003

Most of it doesn't fit her.She has lots of friends and can be feeling and caring.She is self centered,wants to be independent.Hates anybody controlling her,which I never even tried to do,but just asking where are you going could draw a dirty look of WHY?,like I was going to tell her she couldn't do it.And she did get to a resenttfull place.She wouldn' say why.I think its because she is mad at me and herself because she doesn't want to be with me,but she is,so its like I trapped her by making her dependent on me.
She is also secretive about personal things,nobody,even her mother I think,really knows whats going through her head.Even though she can have an animated phone conversation for an hour its about people and things.
At some point I will post a more coherant story from the start and you guys can judge.

Pete

... in response to Re: Pete-Does Wife have a Narcissistic P..., posted by Zorrowins on Oct 4, 2003

You just described my EX American girlfriend to a "T". Maybe we dated the same woman. (ha) What is the name of that website by Halcoyn?

Zack

... in response to Re: Re: Pete-Does Wife have a Narcissist..., posted by zack on Oct 4, 2003

If you type in Narcissistic Personality Disorder one of the listings is www.halcon.com. This one is good. Also a new book "Loving The Self-Absorbed" by Nina Brown is excellent. The easiest way to know you are probably with a Narcissist is by their actions. They are usually bright, above normal inteligence, and often attractive. However, on an emotional level they are similar to a bright 5 year old child.They were abused as children and never developed emotionally. In our case(Men) also search under Female Narcissist. There is very little information on Female Narcissist. THEY NEVER get help, as they are PERFECT! To get help one would have to admit to needing it(mental or otherwise). So thusly the mental health profesionals learn of the disorder from their victims. Obviously Narcissist are very abusive. Now how many man are going to go to a mental health professional and admit they were in a relationship with an abusive woman? Not going to happen! However, women who are with Narcisstic men do go. As a result there isn't much information on women with NPD.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Pete-Does Wife have a Narcis..., posted by Zorrowins on Oct 4, 2003

Yep. That's her. Above normal intelligence, very attractive, abused as a child, self-absorbed, emotionally immature, and PERFECT. Not only will she not get help, but she doesn't even believe in therapy. Probably just an excuse. Thanks for the info.

Zack

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Pete-Does Wife have a Na..., posted by zack on Oct 5, 2003

Hi Zack!
It's nice to hear from someone who understands the gut wrenching emotional effect these Narcissistic women have on us! I strongly advise you to peruse the book Loving The Self-Absorbed by Nina Brown to understand(Not to ever go back to your Narcissist!). Like they are totally obssessed at being in total control of their environment(This includes YOU). Mine called the police and threw her 18 year old daughter out because she challanged her control. Our relationship gradually broke down over her total lack of respect for my personal boundaries. Also the peculair habit of questioning in very great detail over something you did or perhaps bought for her. The total lack of concern they have over your needs or wants, the only person who is important to them is of course themselves! The fact you are walking on egg shells when around them.

Now to the rest of the board who says these guys are total losers to ever stay with someone like that. I understand and until it happened to me would totally agree! However, you have no idea how intensely they can love us when they are in the idealization phase of their neurosis! The horrible negative factors never come out until we are totally in love with them. Then it cycles from (1) adoration,(2) devaluing, (3) to toal disdain. If you confront them in the devaluing stage they will immediately leave the relationship. So we hang on thinking,if we men just try harder, we can prove our love and things will go back to (1)! And indeed it does for ever shorter periods. I would challenge her-she would immediately end the relationship-then in 2-4 weeks I would show up at her doorstep and everything would be (1) again for of course a very brief time, followed by (2) and finally(3). And honestly when they are in (3) they are VERY open to a new, perfect lover who will adore them. So the cycle continues.

... in response to Reply to ZACK: Pete-Does Wife have a Nar..., posted by Zorrowins on Oct 5, 2003

I will get that book you recommend since I have had trouble finding a good book about Narcicism beyond my old books from psych class. I can totally relate to your story.

I could write a book about this but let me just add one additional characteristic that narcissists have that you didn't mention: an obsession with physical appearance. My EX did not want kids because she feared that she would lose her perfect body. Not only did she want me to lose every ounce of fat, but she also insisted that I work out and get big and buff.

Whoever is reading this post and thinks that this could never happen to you because you are too observant, you are wrong. Some of these narcissists appear very normal and sometimes irresistable to the opposite sex. Not only are they beautiful, they are also funny, charming, and witty. In the beginning they seem like the catch of a lifetime and show no warning signs whatsoever. Any man can fall victim to them.

Zack

... in response to Re: Reply to ZACK: Pete-Does Wife have a..., posted by zack on Oct 6, 2003

bald, fat, buck-toothed, it could happen to you.

... in response to Unless you are, posted by surfscum on Oct 7, 2003

LOL!!  very true.

Zack

... in response to Re: Reply to ZACK: Pete-Does Wife have a..., posted by zack on Oct 6, 2003

Zack'
As you probably guessed after our final break up, I spent months trying to figure her out, to determine if their was any hope(There isn't), and most importantly figure me out. The last two years of the relationship I felt a little insane! In my head I knew this lady was a mental wack job, but in my heart I loved her and wanted thing to work out. So let me know how things work out for you. Also feel free to email me at zorrowins@aol.com if you wish.
Good Luck,
Michael

... in response to Pete, posted by Michael B on Oct 4, 2003

About cash stashing,as it would relate to a US divorce or bankruptcy.Yes,if you hide money and don't tell them its a crime.Thats what Tammy Fay Bakers present husband went to prison for.Hiding assets in a bankruptcy.My options by being willing to leave the country are emensly better.But you can be sure I will not step over the line into anything criminal.I want to visit here at least once a year with out being afraid of being arrested.Nothing I am thinking of,which I better not say more about,is in that catagory.I was mad at myself for hanging in so long and spending so much of my money.When I discovered the options I still have,well I've been pretty excited every since.One question that came up when facing the end of the marriage was what next and how much hassle.That kept me stuck as well as alot of other things.

Pete

... in response to Pete, posted by Michael B on Oct 4, 2003

Michael,
Thanks.I am working on the solution right now.I am trying to get imformation about a Seminar in Panama City next week.
Anybody here know?I want to attend if its what I think it is.I may or may not live in Panama but my bank and stock accounts will be there.There are many more solutions if you are willing to move everything offshore and give uo being here.I can always come back ,just not park any assets here for along time.I will not be here to pay alimony and the only asset I was concerned with is my pension,which I find cannot be touched by anybody but the IRS.There is alot more to the plan.
I am up front with my wife about this.She can't get anything but this house cause I can't move it.I will give it to her plus her car and the furniture and probably some other benefits that will in effect cost me nothing.Let me just say my other big asset other than my pension is my credit,which is gold plated,but not for long.The house is overincumbered and hopefully about to be more so.She can't afford the house payment,would you believe $5620 a month,but she can stay here 6 months to a year before they can get her out.My cousin got to stay 2 years one time.With a little legal help you can delay,delay,delay.
I feel really good.For my own peace of mind I have decided to take the high road,not dwell on the negative,which could drive me crazy.I am going to presume the absolute best intentions on her part.It might be stupid,but its all water under the bridge so why stress it.I have treated her,her son and her family like gold for 4 years,so why screw it up being an a-shole on the way out?
My wife and I are not fighting,not being negative.Been there,done that,no more.Time to move on.feels good.
The pain was the 1000 nights I stared at the ceiling because my wife didn't love me and didn't want me to touch her.Why would ANYBODY do that?My biggest excuse is a series of temporary fixes that never lasted because she seems unable to have the feelings for me that a successfull  marriage takes.Can't change it,leave it.Reminds me of a saying,similar to a completely different one."When the going gets tough,the smart split."I was a little slow getting around to it.
But its history.I would rather hold it in the best possible light.
Off to the next phase of my life.I am ready for the change.I am excited about it.No pain now.

Pete

... in response to Re: Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

OK. Best is to get her to make an agreement. Of course if she does not have a Spanish speaking lawyer representing her, she might cry 'I didn't understand' and get something for that. As far as your pension goes, if her lawyer makes a stink, she might get some of it. My X got half of mine, and there is indeed a FEDERAL law that WILL attach your pension if a state court asks them to as part of a divorce or child support case (If I remember right, it's call a 'qualified domestic relations order'....another little gift from our femminist legislators). Now, we were married 16 years and had two kids together. For four years and no kids, we can hope the state court thinks she doesn't deserve any of your pension. (Hell, mine doesn't DESERVE any of it either, but they sure enough gave it to her.) Another difference (at least I think, from what you've said before) is that you earned all of your pension BEFORE you were with her. Mine was earned WHILE we were married and they calculated what it was worth on the day the divorce was final and gave her 1/2 of that. I'm still in that pension plan and everything I've earned since then she doesn't get any of. I think the key of the law is 'the portion of the pension earned while you are married'.

About the house. ZHAZAN! $5620 a month? That's more than a lot of us (well, at least I can speak for myself) make. Is there any way you could sell the house and settle the mortage? You mentioned trying to save your credit.....

One more piece of advice....these things can give a man a thirst (been there). If it becomes necessary again, don't send wine coolers to do a 151 job, just don't drive a car while working on the problem.

Good luck to you and may you find a good woman who will treat you right. Don't be a stranger after you travel.

... in response to Re: Re: Pete, posted by Michael B on Oct 4, 2003

Michael, I love it,No wine colers for a 151 job.
I started recieving my pension before I married her.She has no direct right to it.As far as attaching it you got me a little worried.Maybe I will get a second opinion.Thats really the key.I haven't seen a divorce lawyer yet.My goal is to giv my wife a good enough deal to keep her away from one.
Interesting thing,had I been married to my wife when I retired she could have gotton half of my pension for the rest of her life after I die.That could be 40 years of benefits if she lived long enough.Also medical for the rest of her life and the son to 22 or something like that.Its such a tremendous difference I even considered going back to a job I hated for a year and then retiring a second time.I would be REALLY pissed now if I had done that.Like I would had I adopted her son,which I said I would if I needed to to assure his ability to leave Colombia after going there.At least I didn't do that.You know nothing I have done for her,and the list is HUGE has made any difference and I think she could just as easily have ignored these other 2 things if I had done them.I would tell her do you have any idea where you and your family would be right now if I hadn't come along?The step father lost his job and copuldn't get another,so there would have been only one income,hers,if she still had a job.They were in a much lessor house in a bad neighborhood.She say you are trying to shame me.I say no,I just want you to take a look at the TRUTH.I would like to put her back where I found her for a few days at leasst for her to think about the difference I madec in all their lives.But it never ever mattered at all to her.Rarely said thanks,even when I put up the money for the business so her family would have some income.She said god did it for her.I said I would like you to see where you would be without What I have done.God maybe,but only working through the efforts of me.Got to lert this line of thinking go.It never helped and always just made thing worse.
I feel great.I have never been so sure of anything.So WHY did I take so long to get here?No mas,muy,muy consado.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

While I am glad you have a workable plan for you to get out of your unpleasant situation, I have to say you keep revealing more and more of your story which is in complete contrast to what you had been saying on the board for years.  When I decided to ask my wife to marry me after only knowing her a month and a half and most of the guys here were reaming me, I took some comfort in you having met and married your wife on such short notice and finding happiness.  But now it seems there was never a day of happiness for you, and frankly I don't even agree with your opinion that your wife is a good person.  Good people just don't take advantage of other people.

I won't claim that my wife and I have had smooth sailing as certainly I have posted some of our woes, but I am not lying when I say that I love her more everyday, and more importantly, she loves me more everyday.  There are many things that happen in our relationship I sometimes would like to post about on the board to talk about to try to understand a little easier, but the truth of the matter is they just aren't other people's business so I don't post them.  But I don't lie about my relationship on this board.  If I am not willing to tell the truth about some aspect of it, I just don't talk about it at all.

Completely aside from the point that it bothers me a bit that you were setting an example about some things that weren't actually the truth, is that when you lie or mislead others, it is easier to lie and mislead yourself.  I am a pretty honest person, one of the major reasons being that it is hard enough sometimes for me to know what you honestly want or feel about a situation and when you start compounding the problem by not even telling yourself the truth it is very difficult to go after what you really want.  Pete, when you started lying to others, it became easier to lie to yourself and made it harder for you to see the truth and that is part of why it has taken so long for things to come to a head.

As I have said before, I consider you my friend, so please don't take this in the wrong light, but I had to comment on what I saw.

... in response to I'm sorry Pete, but I have a  small chas..., posted by lswote on Oct 4, 2003

Bruce,
I don't mind you bringing this out,I immagine others thought it.And you raise alot of good points.
But,first,I didn't lie about it.Its rapidly starting to appear I've been a total fool,but lie I did not.But I did withhold half of the story over this BS lid I was operating under,my wife new everything I said and she didn't want me to post at all but to try and keep things together I would try not to post anything negative.Wonder why the picturte has been a little unclear?
As I said,the cover is off,I don't give sh!t wether she likes it,I will post what I want,which will be the whole truth as I see it.I will tell the whole story from the start eventually,pointing out where I thought I screwed up.
And about posting personal imformation.How can we have a discussion about what we are talking about here without getting personal? Jim had a bit of a point before,that it was a violation of the trust of each other,and I should be working on it with her.If you are going to be able to save it maybe.But this is way past that now.And I don't intend this to be a he said she said thing.I am trying very hard not to be making her wrong.And being overly generous in my presumptions of innocence to the point of possibly being a total fool.
And Latinas in general hate us posting,don't think we should be doing it.Even the ones with nothing to hide.Alot of our old buddies have dropped out here to please their wife.
I am willing to tell it as I see it,uncensored now.Isn't that what we are here for?
Ok,to try and answer the main points.
Yes,I got married too fast.It wasn't smart,more importantly it didn't work.That doesn't mean it can not work.Its really about the 2 people involved.The problem is knowing the other person.Also,life is a risk.I took one,it bit me.Lesson learned I hope.
I don't remember exactly howe I responded in supporting your choices.It might have been to say to people its not that bad,it could work.This might be a good relationship and its way betterr than the first one.And we have a need for this companionship.With you I saw that particularly.I probaly said go for it or something like that.I am the eternal optomist.You seem to be doing OK.After about 5 years,maybe sooner you will know for sure.I had said myself if I was wrong I would just send her back.But I didn't.Big mistake.
About my comments of her being a really good girl and knowing it right away.As I said before I am trying to presume the best cause if you presume the worst it can get pretty ugly.Its over.We did what we did.Why fight.
So,yes it definetly seemed she was one off the very good girls.Even our counsoler was convinced"I don't think Rocio is the type of person to do that."I think in her mind she still is,and to some of her friends.Its difficlt to put that together with what has happened.The kindest way to put it is we have a capacity to rationalize our behavior and justify lots of things.To her she did nothing wrong,or won't admit it.Actually people can really go in to alot of ellaborate defenses to not admit the nature of what they did.One thing I have discovered that I really don't know her at all.And sadly some of you guys are probably going to experience that also.
My eyes are a little more open.
I have been gung ho about this process from the start.I recommend it highly.I encourage people to do it.Its just a great opportuninity for most of us.And we do have success stories .I am not one of them,but most of the time have been in denial enough about it to hope I was one of them.Looking at it from the standpoint of we can fix this,you have to take the possitive approach.But I knew,deep down inside,that this relationship way off.I did open up and admit it in effect a few times,then I would shut up to try and patch up the relationship.I feels good to be honest about it,Maybe you could say I didn't lie but I was less than honest,in witholding the negative.
Wa the denial lying to myself?No more like I hope we can fix this and the problem will go away.Butit got bigger and bigger to the point of me getting to that place of NO MAS.Muy consado.No more off this.And it feels good to get there.I guess you could say I was getting honest with myself,and now with you guys I think.
The one thing that keeps coming at me stronger every time tells me something is In didn't know her at all.If I had seen what you  hawe it might have opened my eyes.
I guess  what botheres me most is she seems to presume she is somehow intitled to have everything she has had,and there wass no responsibilty or requirement due on her part,even though I was the guy giving it all to her.And it meant nothing.Actualy if she could go back for a day to where she came from she might admit it does mean something.But shes past that shes here.She put in the time she has rights.
So I just want to not fight over it.I need to talk to her again.She can't stop me but she could cause me some trouble,but it would a big mistake and we would both lose.I'm afraid she will get some basd advice so I need to explain it to her again.What I will voluntarily give her is
much  more than she could get  by fighting me,considering the very important difference,I will be gone.I have been up front about it with her.I hope that isn't a mistake.If so you might get a new opinion on the character issue.
God the misimformation these latinas put together sometimes,understanding half of the issue.
Burnt out here.I'm not sure I answered everything.

Pete

... in response to Good points.I'll try to answer, posted by Pete E on Oct 6, 2003

Pete

I hope you will tell your story when you are ready.  The people here need to see all the pluses and minuses in this operation and that's the only way it will happen.  I hope the politically correct crowd (which is an odd crowd for Jim to be in) will not cow you into keeping quiet.

Steve

... in response to Re: Good points.I'll try to answer, posted by DallasSteve2 on Oct 6, 2003

Steve,
I'm actually sorry I didn't post the whole truth earlier.Its harder to be in denial when you get alot of feedback.Keepimg the lid on it just helped to deny the truth.I am willing to tell my personal story.Other than my wifes anger there has never been a downside to it.I'm willing to be vulnerable or thought a fool.The upside is the support I have recieved and the people who have I have touched and those that have touched me.The support I have recieved has been incredible.Much more than posted here.I have recieved mails and phone calls from people all over the world.
One of the big benefits of this whole process is the men friends I have made.Since I was in school mostly I did not have many men friends.Just didn't bother.But having a common interest has brought me lots of them.
I'll get your mail answered sometime.We have some things in common here.

Pete

... in response to Good points.I'll try to answer, posted by Pete E on Oct 6, 2003

Pete, you didn’t owe me an explanation, though I appreciate you giving me one, and I certainly am not criticizing you for telling personal information.  I agree with you that it is personal information that really gives insights into relationships with Latinas, not mindless, theoretical babbling.  Aaron used to drive me crazy how he knew everything but never related a single personal detail, never explained how he learned from the tree of wisdom by f--king up.  No, I am glad you are willing to share your pain and confusion with us even though it leaves you vulnerable to criticism from the jerks as well as the well-meaning idiots like me.

I understand the optimistic perspective you were trying to retain in your marriage and I retract my statement that I felt you might be lying to yourself now that I understand your rational.  It is sometimes a fine line a person has to walk to retain the right frame of mind in a situation.  It is your optimism and good spirit that has made you such a well liked poster on this forum and it would be inconsistent of you to be so positive and upbeat about the posters here and not be optimistic about the relationship with your wife.  I just wanted to point out what I felt might have been a blind spot in your relationship but it appears you were aware of it and just chose to handle it with the approach and mindset you did and far be it from me to criticize you for that.

I hope in five years I can still say I made the right choice about my wife.  I chose quickly too, but that is how I have always been.  I am impatient about life in general and never take a lot of time to make up my mind about anything.  So far I have proven to be right, even more than I hoped for.  I had just hoped to find an attractive woman who I could love and would return some of the same feelings, but instead I have found a woman who loves me dearly.  She makes me feel sexy to the point I am kind of embarrassed by it.  She tells me often how much she loves me, and despite taking two big financial hits so far in only eight months of marriage (about $25,000 for her hospitalization in June and probably $4000-$5000 on the accident she had in her car last week by the time they settle the insurance claim) I can honestly say all I care about is the fact that she loves me.  I admit to a certain amount of luck in my choice, but then I kind of live by the axiom that if you make a lot of good choices in life, you give luck an opportunity to take advantage of the situation.

... in response to Re: Good points.I'll try to answer, posted by lswote on Oct 6, 2003

Bruce,
Thanks.I will send you a private mail when I get time.I've got 90 minites to decide if I am going to Panama Tommorow. I am waiting for phone calls.The availability and cost of airfare is the last question.Looks like I'm going.

Pete

... in response to I'm sorry Pete, but I have a  small chas..., posted by lswote on Oct 4, 2003

Bruce

You wrote "Pete, when you started lying to others..."

When do you think that Pete was lying?  I think he has been very honest here.

Steve

... in response to I'm sorry Pete, but I have a  small chas..., posted by lswote on Oct 4, 2003

I don't think Pete ever lied. I remember many posts where if you read between the lines you could tell he wasn't very happy with the marriage. I remember him posting about going for counseling, not being sure his wife really loved him, how hw would do things differently next time etc etc etc etc.

As Pete has said, his wife was aware of posting here. Posting the brutal truth would have ended his marriage long ago. In retrospect, maybe that would have been better.

Pete has admitted to being in denial. I applaud him for being as honest and open as he has been.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

I've got a spare room in the Cali condo if you need to chill for awhile, just say "go" if interested.

... in response to Re: Hit the hay!, posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

Might be looking you up if Calivet won't lend me his couch.At least we could have some cervesas.Seriously,maybe.I got to decide where to go first and when.Are you in Cali full time or part time?
You see this short gringo with a beard through your peephole,its me.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Pete, posted by Michael B on Oct 4, 2003

It still depends on the judge and divison of marital assets.  Don't we love lawyers!  I'm the guy that often has to go back and calculate those split pension amounts according to the QDRO under the terms of ERISA and applicable state laws,  you'd be amazed at what happens, and how difficult and often - innacurate the final calculation is.  1 + 2 = 5 in government terms.

... in response to Re: Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

This story sucks and I really feel for you guy.  In Texas, a man is allowed to keep something like 60 acres and x amount of cows (not sure about the x).  Sounds like the best course of action is to not receive anymore advice from this board - get a professional - you've got significant proof of your fidelity here on the board - print it.  Don't let your wife or her friends grab any ideas here beforehand.  I sure as hell would side with Michael - don't start processing transactions in bank accounts, that could be trouble.  Now if you've got something buried.....

... in response to Re: Solutions, posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

Hey Pete,
Based on our phone conversation today, I am glad that you are taking the suggestions on Panama seriously, the opportunity for picking up property at bargain prices are  ripe. I went to the CIA site to get info on Panama and I am pleased with what I found and ever more convinced that this is the place. I like your plan as for as giving her the house, and you keeping any available cash, hopefully she will agree to this in writing before the ball starts to roll, if not then you will get a chance to agree to this and put it in writing during the mediation period. Remember this term Pete, "Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure" it just might come in handy soon.

You can get a visa from Panama if you have a goverment pension of $500 dollars or more, this is a one time shot, once approved it does not need to be renewed yearly as others do.  I will get you the name and info of my bank in Panama for your first account, don't you love the banking privacy there, not even the US. gov can get at your funds once they are there. Before the Cayman Islands rolled over under US/IRS pressure it was jail time for any bank employee that uttered a word about any account held there.  I will get you the number for Greg, he is the point man for IL in Panama City.

Don't worry about that pension being touched by anyone, unless you have problems with the IRS, it is sealed as tight as FT. Knox,Ky.

... in response to Re: Re: Solutions, posted by moam on Oct 4, 2003

Just curious, does your reference to "IL" stand for International Living and the Sovereign Society? I came across those names once when browsing the Escape from America website. The latter has some interesting articles and travelogues.

If you are familiar with the groups/companies mentioned above have you found them to be reputable? I think someone on PL said it was their impression that half the gringos in Costa Rica and Panama were running away from a wife, the tax man or creditors. Granted, a generalization, but the name "Sovereign Society" kind of evokes cutting oneself off from a former life...

Please don't interpret this as an accusation, I'm just trying to learn if these firms and investment ideas are legit. As with the intro agencies, it's easy to build a slick website but there might not be much "behind the curtain."

David

... in response to Re: Solutions, posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

Thanks,
My  main asset,my pension,they can not get at in any way shape or form according to my attorney.It will be direct deposited in to Colombia.As long as it is never in a bank here they can't get at it,plus once it hits Panama they sure as hell can't.Even the IRS couldn't get at a Panama account,its a violation of Panamanian law for the bank to even give imformation to anybody.But they might be able to attach my pension here ,which is protected by federal law but probably not from them because they are federal too.Don't mess with Uncle.You can blow off anybody else but them.
There are some other things I need to do,but lots of it could be done from Panama.I better shut up and not say so much.You know me ,diahria of the mouth.It it was wartime some ships would be on the bottom.
But my options are alot better than 60 acres and a cow.One of the problems I have had is saying "if only I got out of this earlier before so much money was lost".But there are options that ease the pain.I will not be broke and I will have money to buy real estate.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Solutions, posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

if you were not accrueing anything during the term of your marriage.  Otherwise, it's a rubber stamp 50/50 for most cases for the piece that was accrued during marriage.  QDRO's (Qualified domestic relation orders) suck - IRC 401a(4) {Don't quote me on my regs, I'm just taking a break in the ball games now!).  And sometimes there are state issues to deal with such as California {clusterf%ck}.

But would 60 acres in Panama, with cow, be that bad?

... in response to The pension sounds right..., posted by cancunhound on Oct 4, 2003

Its the 60 acres that would have a cow that sounds bad.Cow and fun just don't go together for me.Guess I stepped in too much cow sh!t in my life.Just joking,didn't take the cow thing seriously.
Yes,I know all about womens rights if they are married to you while you are accumulating the years inn the pension.They basically get 1/2 of the pension,times the years you were married and paying for the pension divided by total years.Some of my friends got bit big time on that.One guy,the director of planning at the City of San Jose divorced his wife after 27 of the 30 years to get the pension.She gets almost half.He was at the time the pension big hitter,$110,000 year.He gets about $68,000 of it.
When I got divorced the first time my wife had 2 years credit basically.Her lawyer tried to get her to go for itbut she said no.Another friends first wife gets about 25% of his.His second wife is pissed as is he.But thats not unfair I don't think.The interesting thing is the benefit would be almost nothing if he had not put in the 30 years.
BUT - -  did you follow what my wife could have got if I went back and re retired???Follow this,its huge!!Forget her 1/2 of 1/30 of the pension while I'm living.She would have got 1/2 of the pension for the rest of her life after I died.It goes up 3% a year.If I lived 10 more years it would be about $55,000 at that time.She would start getting half,and if she lived 40 years it would go from$27,500 to about $70,000.Say average $50,000 a year for 40 years.Thats $2,000,000.Plus medical and dental the whole time.I could have bought her that if I could have got myself hired back and worked one year.The problem is for that year I would have lost the $40,000 pension plus the $100,000 plus I make in real estate unless I made money part time.I thought about it.It makes huge financial sence.But I was so happy when I got to retire out of there 6 years ago and do what I wanted to do.And I would be really pissed if I handed her $2,000,000 worth of benefits and she still wouldn't give a sh!t about me.If what I gave her already didn't matter,neither would that.But she would have been one rich retired lady in Cali.
She would have thought it was a gift from god,I didn't really have anything to do with it.

Pete

... in response to Re: The pension sounds right..., posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

You know my ex-wife and I were talking about a year after we had been divorced.  I was very unhappy being alone and started having some physical problems.  One of the reasons we divorced is she became a born-again Christian and she was going to church all the time and wasn't home much on weekends.  So when I mentioned to her how unhappy I was she said it was because I had lost my Christian covering when I had divorced her.  I was really floored by that comment because when I married her she wasn't religious but she had three small children without any financial support from the natural father and I raised them as my own, being married to her 13 years until the last one left home.  In other words I had been HER covering all those years, making sacrifices and loving her children as my own and she paints the situation as God had been taking care of her and the children all those years, not me.  And her gratitude for that protection was to say I lost by covering, that God wasn't looking out for me anymore.

... in response to Re: Re: Solutions, posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

I meant direct deposited to Panama.Panama has US currency as their money,plus many other advantages.

Pete

... in response to Re: Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

GO PETEY GO!!!!! My only regret for you is the time you wasted on this woman that came here to live in your house. I don't want to use the word wife because from what I saw and see she was never a wife or companion to you. Run Petey and don't look back. Good Luck!!!

H2-Oh

... in response to Re: Re: Pete, posted by H2Oh on Oct 4, 2003

Howard,
Thanks,After our last talk I thought you might be pulling your hair out when I said I was going to take care of her on the way out.But its got an advantage too.I don't want some lawyer telling her how she can get at me.There's not anything they can get I don't think,but they could screw up some of my plans.Plus I want to be on good terms with the family in Cali.That might be the first place I go for awhile.I am going to get a family friend to write them in spanish explaining  my side of the thing to them in a very possitive way,not knocking Rocio,who they dearly love.So if I run in to them in Cali with a chica on my arm they won't think I am the a-shole of the world.Another woman might be suspicious of what really went on with me and my wife.It would be nice to get a personal recommendation from her mother.
And there's Sebastian,what a good kid.I told him I'm sorry whats happening,he was taking it hard.But regardless of what happens with me and your mother I will always be there for you.If anything good has come out of this other than learning how not to do it next time,its that I was able to change his life and he now has opportunities he would have never had.He is a very bright kid,he can do anything he wants to do.Would not have been possible in Colombia I don't think.

Pete

... in response to Re: Pete, posted by Pete E on Oct 4, 2003

You have a good attitude about all of this, I wish you luck..cuidate..