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I invited my fiance from cali to a vacation for a week in Cartagena and Santa Marta.
My fiance stood me up for a telephone call Saturday night. On Sunday she sends me an email asking for me to pay for her to go shoping for clothes for the trip. I told her I would help her with all costs related to coming to the united states including travel,medical,english lessons drivers licence and even clothes because the climate here is different. Now she expects me to pay for her Cartagena vacation clothes. I don't like it. Time to find another novia.

AMOR TE DIJE QUE  ESTERIA DONDE MY ABUELO POR QUE MANANA LUNES SALE DE
                     VIEJE
                     A LOS EEUU, A SI QUE POR FAVOR NO TE ENOJES. HOY AQUI EN CALI ESTA
                     LLOVIENDO
                     EL DIA ESTA MUY FRIO, ESTA COMO PARA ESTAR ABRAZADITOS TU Y YO.

                     MANANA LLAMO A LA AGENCIA PARA LO DEL VIAJE, NO TE PREOCUPES ESTA
                     SEMANA
                     DEJAMOS TODO LISTO. AMOR ME METI EN LA PAGINA DE NIKE PERO COMO TODO
                     ESTA EN
                     INGLES NO ENCONTRE LO DE LAS SANDALIAS ME AYUDAS CON ESTO POR FAVOR.

                     HOY SALDRE  A UNICENTRO QUIERO VER QUE ROPA NECESITO PARA EL VIAJE, TU
                     ME
                     DIJISTE QUE SI ERAN COSAS PARA MI TU ME AYUDA. CUENTO  CONTIGO.

                     TE ENVIO MUCHOS  BESOS JAZMIN

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

She appears to be saying that you told her you might be able to help if it was something for herself. Maybe it is just me, but I feel like you are leading her on and then complaining when she treats you like her man. Women no matter where they are from will be women. Some things don't change. She is not just a friend she is your fiance. I don't see why you would come to the board everytime that she asks you to do something for her anyway. If she asks you for a kiss are you going to post that? If you care about this woman and you want to have a relationship with her, you are going to have to provide for some of her needs and wants; it is really that simple. She appears to need a man that can take care of her. That is a characteristic that many latinas share. Are you that man or not? If you are going to kick her to the curb, get to kickin why go on vacation with her if you are going to fire her.

... in response to Re: Now she wants me to pay for vacation..., posted by luvslife on Sep 10, 2003

I disagree with your post. I don't want to have anything to do with a woman that asks me for money. If it is truly an emergnecy like she or a close relative is dying thats something else. I find it disgusting for women to ask for money off from men (unless it is business). Its disgraceful. Yes I make many times more money than she. Yes I want to help her out and buy her things she can not afford because I care about her and I can. But for her to ask and expect is inappropriate. You guys are the ones that have trained these women to behave in this manner by doing it. You ruin it for the rest of us by creating a corrupt culture. You guys are loosers because you can't get/keep a women unless you give them money and you have trained them to think that way.

... in response to Re: Re: Now she wants me to pay for vaca..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 10, 2003

Now I have heard it all.  The guys on the board are losers because your lady asked you for money to buy herself a couple of things she may need for a vacation that you invited her on.  All I can say to that is good luck.

... in response to Re: Re: Now she wants me to pay for vaca..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 10, 2003

EC,

After reading your many posts concerning your "relationships" with Latin women, I feel that you have some sort of personal problem. When you are offered advice you only accept what you feel fits your viewpoint. Why even ask for help if you already know the answer?

I think that you need to step back, take an inventory of yourself and look long and hard at what it is you really want or really need. It all starts with you. If you have some sort of personal issues (and in your case I believe that you cannot see them), you must "fix" yourself first. You chances for success go way up. If not, you'll make poor decisions and be doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

Remember it is very difficult to make the right choices esp. in regards to a lifetime partner if you are not the person you should be first.

I may be wrong, but based on the limited information I've read on the board, this is the conclusion I've come to. Maybe you are just having some bad luck so far, but your latest novia does not seem to be out of line based on the information you have provided.

Is there something else that makes you think that she is trying to take advantage of you? Do you love her? Does she love you? My personal opinion is you should love this person before applying for a visa.

Why be in such a hurry? Are you desperate? How is paying for some minor expenses going to hurt you? Get to know her much better...you must have a intimate (not necessarily physical) relationship so you can understand what her motivation is. There is nothing inherently wrong with providing financial support for someone that you care about. Just make sure that there is a real love for one another or you will loose much more than money. That's the least of your worries.

Tim.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Now she wants me to pay for ..., posted by Starman on Sep 10, 2003

Thank you for your suggestions. I will carefully consider what you have written. I don't want to be a closed minded person. Thanks for your bringing your suggestions up in a respectful and non-offensive manner. You raise some valid points I can not dispute.

... in response to Re: Now she wants me to pay for vacation..., posted by luvslife on Sep 10, 2003

.

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

Whoever it is that eventullay works out, you guys are invited to the wedding.

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

My spanish is poor so I didn't try to read her letter.
I think the real thing is if you think this lady is serious about you.If not don't even waste the trip with her if she buys her own clothes.And beware of lukewarm women.She should be very clearly interested in you,otherwise your buying trouble,the longer you stay in the relationship the more trouble.Plus your wasting time and money and could be with a girl who does care about you.
But,if you think she is sincere and you care about her some  vacation clothes might be in order.You could buy them together at your destination.surely she has at least one set of appropriate clothes to get there.

Pete

... in response to Re: Now she wants me to pay for vacation..., posted by Pete E on Sep 8, 2003

thanks pete for the good advice

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

but if she isn't WORTH a couple of bathing suits and a pair of Nike's to you....

... in response to Well it's your call, posted by Michael B on Sep 8, 2003

.

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

Better have a back-up plan.

What stands out most about her letter, despite another request for money, is the lack of passion. You have been engaged for a long time, and the only mushy thing she has to say is "I send you many kisses"  ??

I have been with my novia for only three months and her letters are always ended with "I love you, I miss you"
or something like "I can't wait to see you again."

I can't judge your lady with only one letter. Maybe she isn't as vocal about these things. I'm just telling you what stands out to me.

Zack

... in response to Re: Now she wants me to pay for vacation..., posted by zack on Sep 8, 2003

n/t

... in response to Zack, EC has not been engaged for a long..., posted by thundernco on Sep 8, 2003

EC's profile states that he has been engaged since September of 2002.

Zack

... in response to Re: Zack, EC has not been engaged for a ..., posted by zack on Sep 8, 2003

He was, but that was to his ex whom he broke up with in April/May.  He then went back in June(?)and started dating his new Finace. -TNC

... in response to Re: Re: Zack, EC has not been engaged fo..., posted by thundernco on Sep 8, 2003

Correct

... in response to Zack, EC has not been engaged for a long..., posted by thundernco on Sep 8, 2003

I think I recall you saying previously that this young lady supported some or all of her family on her earnings.  She probably doesn't make enough to go spend on some beachwear, so no I don't think that's an inappropriate request, after all she is your "fiancé".  I would have more of an issue with the lack of explanation for the phone cita.  -TNC

... in response to Engaged in June or July , correct EC?  R..., posted by thundernco on Sep 8, 2003

EC,

I read the rest of your post, her email to you, and she states that she told you she would be at her granfathers prior to his departure for the states AND that she had told you she would be there.  Assuming she comes from a close family, that makes complete sense to me, she also asked you not to be mad at her; perhaps it could be a failure to communicate or understand what she had told you.  She also states that you offered to help her, (Calena word for you would buy), with things that were for her.  Again, it could be a failure to communicate or understand on your part; if you offered I see no harm in her taking you up on "help".  

She also stated it was raining that day, like to be hugging each other.  That's a nice little note of affection, and that she sends you many kisses. Quite frankly EC, according to her email, I don't see anything wrong with what happened except for maybe some communication issues and the impression that this sounds more like girlfriend/boyfriend stuff not serious engagement issues.  You state "Time to find another novia", I would say time to stop trying to rush everything and build a relationship with this lady.  Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like every little thing makes you doubt if she's the one.
-TNC  

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

is there anything that she doesn't want you to buy?

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

I’ve noticed from your profile that you have been engaged for about a year.  So, some financial assistance might be appropriate.  

However, the real issue that I think is nagging you is whether you are being used.  You are not sure that she really loves you.  

I didn’t give my novia any financial assistance until a year in the relationship and decided to help her because she lost her job.  However, in the totality of our relationship, the way she treats me and speaks to me I feel comfortable doing this because I don’t doubt that she loves me.  So, I feel comfortable helping her.  

I see some possible warning signs in your relationship: - after missing Saturday the e-mail seems to be too directed towards money and doesn’t show enough concern for you and explain about Saturday.  The other warning sign is the not-irrelevant fact that you are still insecure about the relationship.  

When my novia missed a date she would always call me up afterwards and explain the problem.  

Those are my observations, but you are the only one who has the knowledge of all the facts to make a determination.  

Use your intuition and choose.  

... in response to Re: Now she wants me to pay for vacation..., posted by valuedcustomer on Sep 7, 2003

thank you for the very thoughtful and inteligent reply

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

My wife read the request from your novia and found no red flags or overt requests... As cancunhound pointed out, money in tight in Colombia and most ladies don't have sufficient budget or need to have a beach wardrobe...

In case you haven't figured it out yet, having a wife is not an inexpensive proposition... No matter where she is from, be it Los Angeles or Cali or Katmandu... If you are not prepared to be a partner in life, which BTW includes supporting and clothing your wife, then you should probably be picking out a new dog instead of searching for a new wife...

... in response to Re: Now she wants me to pay for vacation..., posted by wizard on Sep 7, 2003

I don't see any problem buying clothes for a novia. IF you are sure of how she feels about you. El Colombiano has serious doubts.

When I first met my novia, we spent 9 days together. After about 5 days I noticed she was "mixing and matching" her clothes to not appear to be wearing the same stuff.

There was a big concert that weekend at a nice Disco. I wanted to go see it. So. . . .I asked her to go with me. She said yes, but looked less than excited. Having been around the block a few times, I realized she didn't want to go without having apropriate "nice outfit".  Latinas are very much into looking nice. If she wore one of the outfits she had already worn, she would have felt uncomfortable.

I offered to buy her an outfit. Her face lit up and I bought her a nice outfit and we had a blast.

She was at the time working 6 days a week and going to school at night 5 nights per week. This while also taking care of her 6 year old son. She had no time for going out to discos, hence didn't have a ton of "party clothes".

Since then I have bought her a ton of clothes. Not once did she ask for them. I enjoy it, even if I don't wind up taking them off of her as cali vet said.

Bottom line, I don't see there being a problem buying a GF some clothes, but if you are already doubting her, THAT is the issue etc.

Heck, I am having ATM troubles so now my novia is loaning me 200 bucks for my trip home tomorrow. I'll western union her the cash and rent money etc once I get to NY.

... in response to Re: Re: Now she wants me to pay for vaca..., posted by Ralph on Sep 8, 2003

You yourself stated what I see as the big difference between your situation and EC.  In your case, the GF did not ask.

... in response to Yo, Ralph, posted by burbuja2 on Sep 8, 2003

I am smart enough to have seen by her reaction that she was on one hand excited about the possiblity, and on the other a bit hesitant to get too excited.

It was obvious that she did not have a ton of clothes. With her very busy work, school and taking care of her son schedule, it was also obvious she had very little time to go oit on the town in a while.

I bought her a nice pair of pants, 2 shirts to go with it, a handbag, a belt, and shoes. Total was less than 100 bucks, and I had known her for a bit over a week, and for the first 4 days got pecks on the cheek hello and goodbye.

We went to the concert and had a blast. I am sure if she felt sub concious of not having clothes that were "good enough" for this disco, she would not have enjoyed herself as much.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43566496/43585493seNkZa

I just remebered we had a shot of that concert online. As you can see , nothing fancy but she had a great time and so did I!

I had so much fun I was back down in 10 days to spend more time with her. After the second trip, I have brought her clothes on nearly every trip. I am a VIP customer with Fredericks and Victorias Secret as well as a few others. I enjoy seeing her dressed up nice, and now she will ask me from time to time to buy certain things for her. For instance at one point she was running low on panties, so I bought about 20 pairs.
She has always wanted a pair of boots, so I bought her a pair. Unfortunately the wrong size so I have to try again.

I still travel a decent amount and in every city I visit I try to buy her a cool T Shirt etc. That means as much to her as buying "fancier" clothes because it means no matter where I travel to, I am always thinking about her and wishing she could be with me etc.

So. . . .I don't think buying stuff for the lady in your life makes you a loser. She doesn't love me because I buy her stuff, I buy her stuff because I love her. Big difference.

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

better than you. But, if she isn't worth a couple of outfits and a bathing suit. I guess the relationship wasn't all that enjoyable. If that is the case, you should dump her ASP. You know the (sexual) relationship is really good when you send your (unemployed) caleña girlfriend the money for a new bathing suit before she even asks for it. When you catch yourself buying a women clothes before she asks, you should make dam sure she will look really hot in them. Buying girls clothes can get expensive. So you have to look on the bright side like I do. If she is wearing clothes you bought her, It kind of gives you the right to take them off anytime you want :-)

I know I have said it a hundred times but if a caleña is in a serious relationship with you, they are going to ask you for stuff. It is pretty much a cultural thing. If she isn't well off financially, how do you think she got 90% of what she has now. By asking, that's how.

... in response to Well nobody would know, posted by Calipro on Sep 7, 2003

I agree with what you say.  I am sure she does not have a savings account to raid to buy beachwear.  It sounds like elcolombiano wants the sexual relationship with no strings attached, no financial responsibility.  He is starting to sound like that German dude Hans,  "my way or der highway"
A1A

... in response to Re: Well nobody would know, posted by A1A on Sep 8, 2003

No I am not like the German dude. My way or dur highway. This culture is foreign to me. I don't know what the rules are. I have no problem playing the game just don't want to get taken.

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

Here's a Colombianas perpective, as I just ran your post by one, here's a loose translation of her comments:

"Of course it would be expected for him to pay for some clothes to visit the beach, most gals in Cali can't afford to simply head down to Unicentro to purchase that stuff - Cali doesn't have a beach.  She'll want to look her best for the vacation and impress her fiance in appropriate beach attire."

This Colombiana "consultant" saw no red flags in your novias post (only the spelling).  Colombianas have a thing, especially Calenas - about looking good.  I would reword it in another way - let's say you're vacation spot was snow skiing somewhere - would you expect her to just freeze her arse off without proper clothes?

Buy the clothes and head down there, spend more time and get to know her better.  About the phone thing - it's pretty damn common for the phone service to be knocked out.  Not to rag on you, but you seem to have too many reservations about this gal to bring her to the US and consider marraige.

... in response to Now she wants me to pay for vacation clo..., posted by elcolombiano on Sep 7, 2003

Hi Alan. As I mentioned to you once before, we met in person. You're a cool guy, but I have two words regarding this female: DEAD IT. In other words, end that relationship with her, NOW. Take care.

... in response to Re: Now she wants me to pay for vacation..., posted by Keith Smith on Sep 7, 2003

Here is my opinion:  Have you ever seen a young beautiful woman in the United States?  Of course you have.  Did you see what she was wearing?  New clothes (very nice new clothes).  Did you see what kind of car she drove away in?  Of course you did.  It was a new (very expensive) car.  When it comes to very beautiful young women, everything is given to them.  It seems this woman wasn't attractive enough to suit you.  If she was,,you wouldn't have posted any questions for us.