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A mere 1% of the population owns 60% of the land.  Drugs are just one small part of the mess down there.

You seem to have the impression that all Colombians are narco traficers. This is as wrong as wrong can be.  Most Colombians want this scourge to be rid of their country because it distorts every aspect of their country especially their economy. Look at Cali for example. In spite of its bad state of repair and lousy public services, it is one of the most expensive cities in Colombia while cities like Manizales and Medellin are modern and efficient. Why? Because all the money that was flying into this town 15 years ago boosted the cost of living for EVERYONE. The trickle down affects are no longer present, but the elevated cost of living sure is.

  I spent 12 years in Narcotic Enforcement. I taught at the Detroit Police academy and was an instructor for the DEA local tech schools. I am aware of mans wish to alter his state of reality. So don't bother getting into the legalization crap. It didn't work in England and won't work here.  Look at Amsterdam which is now a big dope den and whorehouse. I remember it from 1971.

Read the archives. Twenty five years ago Bogota had dirt streets, I was there staying in the tequendama hotel. Cali was a colonial city with dirt roads. Most of the city was torn down and all those high rises were built to wash money. As to the trickle down effect who do you think lives in those expensive houses in Pance, El Ingenio and Cuidad Jardin How about all those high rises in Normandy and Arbolada. What!! you think the money came from sugar cane? Everyone was involved, Doctors, lawyers Politicians they all made money. People would buy houses for three times their value just to hide the money. We have a couple of malls in Miami where the sisters, cousins and aunties ran upscale stores with astronomical prices just to wash that money.

I bet you believe there were no Nazis in Germany. Do you expect the colombians to beg forgiveness? Most of them are only afraid of the violence of the business. I have dated four women from agencies who were married to traffickers and I am not talking about bag men. One lived in NYC and her husband was caught with 250 k's.  She asked me if that was a lot.  Another was married to a plastic surgeon who worked for Pablo. She told me he was killed in his car. I assumed it was an accident . Wrong!! It is very convienent to ignore where papi's money comes from. I think you had better keep your ears open wider than your mouth. Thinking you know something there can get you in real trouble. jim c

Good points.  

I never asked any woman I met or dated what her ex husband did for a living. If they volunteered it,that was fine, but I wasn't going to get into the narco conversation unless it came up.  

Perhaps, some women I met might have been beneficiaries of the narco trade.  I remember going out just once in Bogota for lunch with a woman who had easily $10,000-$15,000 USD in jewelry and threads on her body, includng a Swiss gold watch, an emerald bracelet and earings with beautiful stones and designer clothes.  She was in Bariloche which is an exclusive resort area (I think in Argentina) last summer. Last summer, I did a 12 day car trip in a 93 Taurus with my 19 year son going to baseball games in New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore and visiting the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, living in Motel 6's and gobbling down cheesburgers, fries and Cokes.  I decided not to give her full details of the trip!  And, here I was: "el norteamericano con dinero" with a $69.95 Timex I had bought specifically for the trip, so I wouldn't get ripped off.   Not that I could even afford her watch! And this woman was registered with an agency! Interestingly enough, at the sita she had been dressed nicely, but the jewelry was limited.

To try and educate myself about Colombia's politics, I read several books about Colombian history and politics (including Ingrid Betancourt's autobiography) before I left the US and realized that for me as an outsider to volunteer an informed opinion about a half century of non stop violence was just asking for trouble.

The subject came up a couple of times in Bogota and I would say as tactfully as I could that I had enough trouble following my own country's politics, that I had found the Colombians I met to be friendly and wonderful people and for so many people to die was such a terrible waste of life.  Another woman that I had dinner with in Bogota (unfortunately, a lawyer and the only woman I ever felt I was "competing" with for gender dominance) who spoke excellent English just wanted to discuss politics with me.  We disucssed American pop culture as a compromise, the  dinner never really became a date and I never saw her again.

Amsterdam? You want to talk about Amsterdam? That is one of the friendliest, most beautiful cities in Europe. Maybe in your ingnorance you didnt make it beyond the tourist red light districts, but thats your problem, next time invest in a better guide book or at least have the sense to venture beyond the disneyland tourist crap.

The people in this country hate the narcotraficers as much as you do. Look at what they did to Cali. It has been destroyed by them. In the 70s this was the most civic town in Colombia. The people lined up to get on the bus and the Valle Caucano work ethic was world renowned. The Paris of south america, then came the drug money and it all went to the crapper. These people want their city back and they want the "tracetos" (thats narcos cause you prolly dont even speak spanish) out.

Have you got a thing about sending single mothers to Jail? I don't see where that came from, unless it is a trauma event in your life. As to what was happening in the 70's, with your attitude and lack of culture, I doubt if you were even an intention at that time.  An adult with true experience would not find it necessary to stoop to sticks and stones to defend their opinion or even have a desire to. I haven't read any references to support your opinions, trick.

PS what did your mama look like. jim c

I've been following the thread, interesting points of view on all sides.  For my own edification, what exactly is your experience/education in regards to this topic? -TNC

You're on point, the North Valley & Coastal Cartels as well as other small players have picked up significant market share. However, the Cali Cartel is still around, not dead, although in a very dimished and injured capacity.  

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/js122.htm

-TNC

Pete

Politics is a little off subject unless you're dating one of these guys.  This board has enough useless info on it as it is  - no need to further contibute to it.

Pete

xiomara is stunning. Must be rough having a receptionist
like that.

Zack

Zack

Traveller, curious about Xiomara (yes hard not to notice her this week), did they pay her for that CaliesCali gig - or was it kind of an honor thing that any model would jump on to gain exposure?  Just curious how much they get paid if anything at all on that site.  Now this question is related to women so it is clearly "in topic"!

"the Colombian govt. is now claiming they will have regained full control of the republic by November"

I'd like to believe that, but I doubt it.

Here's what I've read:

1 - Kidnapping and guerilla attacks are down this year.  Some rebels are defecting (a few hundred).  That's all good news.

2 - Some say the rebels are retreating to the jungle instead fighting hardliner Uribe.  Under Colombian law he can only serve one 4-year term.  They figure they can wait 4 years and then start up the same old cycle.  They've got the cash to wait it out.  The Colombian army can't make any real dent in the rebels if they are holed up in the mountains/jungles.

3 - The rebels were estimated to have about 16,000 members in their army.  It's been growing by 1,000 or so per year recently.  So what if they loose a few hundred soldiers.  They will still be the same frightening force they were before.

4 - The FARC have been fighting the Colombian government for almost 40 years now.  I wish the Colombian army could defeat them, but as long as the US maintains its drug war against cocaine the FARC will continue to earn billions from the US drug market.  The only way to dry up the FARC is to cut off their income which means legalizing drugs.  Our country won't do that so the cycle will continue.

I've wondered if the government could solve the problem by cutting a secret deal with the leaders of the FARC.  Offer them each a few million dollars and passage out of the country.  It would be cheaper than what they're spending on the war.  But it probably wouldn't work because those guys are living like kings on the drug money, plus they've got hot and cold running beautiful, young Colombian women.  Sounds like a program to me.

Steve

"The only way to dry up the FARC is to cut off their income which means legalizing drugs. Our country won't do that so the cycle will continue"
"I've wondered if the government could solve the problem by cutting a secret deal with the leaders of the FARC. Offer them each a few million dollars and passage out of the country. It would be cheaper than what they're spending on the war. But it probably wouldn't work because those guys are living like kings on the drug money, plus they've got hot and cold running beautiful, young Colombian women. Sounds like a program to me."

Why is my proposal "to heck with the country"?  I'm proposing a way to end the violence and to restore normalcy to Colombia.  That doesn't sound like "to heck with the country" to me.  Maybe it wouldn't work; I said in my earlier post that maybe it wouldn't work.  But, if you keep the present system (drug war) I promise you in 4 years the FARC will still be tormenting Colombia.

My proposal isn't saying "Reward the criminals".  Sorry, if you view it that way.  My proposal is saying "Better to pay for peace than to keep fighting an endless war".  It would save lives and money if it would work.  If Colombia has peace they can begin to rebuild their economy and provide a better life for their people.

You can disagree with my idea, but please don't accuse me of not caring about the well-being of Colombia.  You're wrong about that.

Steve