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My fiancee is now asking me to help pay for her utility bills in her home. She lives with 3 other adult siblings and her parents. The parents are 50 years old. No one in the houshold holds a full time job exept for my fiance. I don't mind paying for any expenses we inccur while we are together or for gifts or for expences related to coming to the USA or preparing to come to the USA. But why do I have to pay for part of her utilites. She said her sister who does not work ran up a large phone bill and if I don't pay, the phone will be disconected. If I want to pay for a girl freind I can alway find a prostitute, what's the difference?

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

El C before pulling the plug, maybe this is a good time for a long talk about money and expectations. Remember from her perspective, part of the attraction may be that gringos are "rich" even if you aren't waving money and pictures around. How else could you afford international travel?

As many posters below indicate, some support for the family is expected in most cases. In this case it sounds like your lady is the only steady breadwinner in the family, which is really going to create pressure should you bring her to the U.S.

As was pointed out several weeks ago, jobs are hard to come by down there unless you've got connections.

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

First,I asked some of my Colombian friends about sending money back to Colombia. It was unanimous. Every one of them are sending money back to their families even the ones that come from affluent families. It is expected of them. The family ties are much stronger and the success of the family is the responsibility of all members. My ex-novia sent about half her paycheck to her mother every week even though they were doing pretty well.
Secondly and somewhat less altruistic, someone made a point on this board a while back about sending money to the family being a good way to keep a wife from leaving her husband. Imagine the condemnation the family would heap on a daughter that wanted to leave the family's meal ticket.

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

I found a little book in the bargain bin at a bookstore yesterday.Its called "Money Talks".I consulted it for some inspiration here.
The saying that jumped out was " I make money using my brains and lose money listening to my heart.But in the long run my books balence pretty well."

Pete

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

First off we have to realize that the Latin culture (as well as Asians) is very family oriented. They often live together until married and sometimes even after.

A financial problem for one is a problem for all. Now in this case I would have to say that the sister should be responsible for the phone bill. But if it gets disconnected, which does happen often, then he won't be able to talk to his fiancee either.

As for not having good jobs I can only speak about my wife's family. They live in a small town outside of Cali.

She has an older sister who is an elementary school teacher. Her sister has a 10-yr old son. She has a boyfriend who lives with them and he has a job. I'm sure neither of them make enough to really live on their own.

There are so many teachers she can only work half days. They get paid almost nothing and often go months without being paid at all. If the local government changes they can replace all civil employees like police, fire, office workers and teachers.

My wife's youngest sister has a degree in Information Technology. She is currently working in a small casino for about 50 cents an hour.

My father-in-law catches a bus about 5:30 each morning and sometimes gets home around 8PM. He makes about $2000(US) a year.

Another sister lives upstairs with her husband and little girl. She watches the two children and handles the household chores. Fortunatly her husband has a job as a welder.

My wife's mother had emphysema and died 3 months after my wife arrived in the U.S. I paid for half the medical bills and funeral costs.

On own choice I have provided a TV, VCR, fan, washing machine, new mattresses and last Christmas a computer to my wife's family.

I mention all of this to show that yes, things happen. Yes, the people in Colombia struggle day to day to survive. It is not like the lives we know in the U.S.

My wife has a teaching degree but works as a retail manager. We contribute something to her family's well-being monthly and often more for special occasions.

They have an ATM card to my wife's checking account (not mine) but never take money without checking with her first.

It's just part of the deal when marrying a foreign lady. Get used to it. Think of it as helping people who may not have the means to help themselves.

Needless to say I am treated very well when I visit her family.

... in response to Let me add some thoughts on this subject..., posted by Freddie on Aug 23, 2003

Do they use it?  The one I purchased now has a cover on it - La 14 or wherever carries them.  I gave the maid full intructions on how to use it - LOL.  Same with the microwave, it's just another place to store stuff - WTF?  Can't teach an old dog new tricks.  Now the DVD they use.

... in response to washing machine, posted by cancunhound on Aug 23, 2003

I had to laugh, yes, their's has a LA 14 cover on it, too.

Two years ago my wife went to visit her family 2 weeks before I got there. She already had the new water line installed before we went to pick out the machine. I asked her where was the hot water line and she said, "Honey, we don't have hot water."

After washing their clothes by hand for all those years you can bet they use it, probably almost everyday. Her 3 sisters hugged me and almost cried when it arrived.

I think this Christmas we'll get them a microwave. They have no oven and cook everything on a couple gas burners.

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

I've been married for 6 years.  I've never been asked to send money to my wife's family.  I never had any other Latin lady I dated ask me for money.  This is the second time this has happened to you.  It seems like it was only 2-3 months ago you were dumping the other fiancee for financial reasons.  Seems like you move awfully fast.

Are you perhaps trying to use dinero to attract women?  Pictures of your house, car, etc.?  Telling them about your net worth or income?  That's always seemed to be a sure fire way to eliminate the good women and leave you with the gold digger types.  Perhaps you should re-think your strategy and start using education and employment in your criteria for choosing ladies.  If you're willing to let up a bit in the looks/age department, there are plenty to choose from.  I would suggest staying away from women who are too affluent though.  A dependence on maids is hard to support here.

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

"I don't mind paying for any expenses we inccur while we are together or for gifts or for expences related to coming to the USA or preparing to come to the USA. But why do I have to pay for part of her utilites."

 You got it. There are gazillions of poor but dignified people in the world who would be too proud to ask for money, especially for something so trivial. Let your girlfriend's sister take responsibility for her actions, and bear the brunt of their disapproval if the phone gets disconnected. If that disapproval rubs off on you, why would you want to get involved with such people anyway?

 Honestly, what was Sis thinking when she ran up that phone bill? If she doesn't even have a job, who was she expecting to pay the bill as she yakked away? Rich Gringo Boyfriend? This sounds not only like they are trying to use you, they're being downright presumptuous about it. It also sounds like they have some problems with discipline that money from you would only protract instead of cure.

... in response to Re: She is asking me for money now, posted by Bueller on Aug 23, 2003

You response makes me feel very sad. But you hit it on bulls eye.

... in response to Re: She is asking me for money now, posted by Bueller on Aug 23, 2003

It is good to see you posting again!!

... in response to Bueller, posted by moam on Aug 23, 2003

Thanks! I missed out on some threads about Brazil, and made some notes about some comments to make on the subjects discussed, but have been too lazy to sit down and compose. I've spent the past few hours translating an article from Portuguese for an online magazine, and while googling a phrase found out the article already exists in English. I stopped for fear of getting stuck in the middle of some sort of plagiarism dispute, and am waiting to hear back from the editor to see if I just wasted half my day.

 Will post some thoughts on Brazil soon.

... in response to Re:  Bueller, posted by Bueller on Aug 23, 2003

Good, look forward to hearing about your experiences.  I have 3 places that I am very interested in and Brazil is one of them.

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

What distrubs me most about her request is that none of her family holds a full time job. I know that jobs are
not plentiful in Clolombia, but it something still stinks here. I would look at this as a huge red flag if I were you.

Other guys are saying "get used to it. It comes with the territory." Agreed, but asking for money for a life-threatening hospital expense is one thing,  a utility bill for a family who doesn't even work full time is completely different.

I simply would not pay it and see how she responds, and see if the phone is really shut off.

Zack

... in response to Re: She is asking me for money now, posted by zack on Aug 23, 2003

On second thought, I would just give her the boot. There are a lot of good ladies who can't stomach asking someone for money for something like that. Why waste your time with her?

I know that is easier said than done since you are so involved now, but I was in your shoes once and I know how you feel. Looking back, I am so glad I gave my novia the boot despite how hard it was.

If we were all more tough with these ladies, then the bad
ladies would stop joining agencies.

Zack

... in response to on second thought..., posted by zack on Aug 23, 2003

I wouldn't pull the boot just yet - who knows what goes on in these scenarios - but rest assured this will be an interesting relationship.

... in response to Re: on second thought..., posted by cancunhound on Aug 23, 2003

Fair enough, but if I continued the relationship after that, I sure would have a bad taste in my mouth.

Zack

... in response to Re: Re: on second thought..., posted by zack on Aug 23, 2003

Yes it has left a bad taste in my mouth. My opinion of her has dropped several notches.

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

correct me if i am wrong, but isnt this the scme girl that you were going to bring to Tijuana, pay for the flight and the apartment, english classes, while you waited for her visa? your relationship reads like a soap opera, you could probably wriet a book about it. not to pick on you, but if your worried about a phone bill,you have no idea what its going to cost you later in the relationship. one point though, its not a good sign when your not even married yet, and she is asking for you to give her money for her family, not a good way to start. her family background doesnt sound too good either, nobody holding a full time job. hope for the best and good luck.

... in response to Re: She is asking me for money now, posted by mudd on Aug 23, 2003

Its not the money. Its the principal. She has a lot of nerve to ask and/or expect me to pay her phone bill.

... in response to its not the money its the principal, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 24, 2003

Lesson #1 of human nature: Any time somebody says "it's not the money, it's the principle" you can bet, it's the money!
(nothing personal, that's just the way people are)

But seriously, sending money 'depends' on the circumstances, like: how long have you been together? (and how serious is it?); what's the money for? would she have incurred this expense (or loss of income) even if she were not having a releationship with you? are family members preasuring her a la 'now that you've snagged a rich gringo...'  whole bunch of things in the catageory 'depends'

For example, (OK, now I am getting personal, i.e. my case) let's suppose that she was married once before but doesn't have a 'clean' divorce (up until 1995 or 96, Colombia would not issuse a divorce, only a 'legal seperation', which INS/BCIS will NOT accept) and now she needs to get it cleaned up before you can sponsor her...obviously an expense she would not have incurred if it wasn't for her relationship with you.

Let's suppose (again, my personal case) that her X was paying child support and when he finds out about you (in this case, ME) he hits the ceiling and cuts her off....obviously a 'loss of income' that she would not have incurred except due to the fact that she's now in a releationship with you (me).

Another case (not my case, but very common, has happened to many guys here)....there are eight people (parents, younger siblings, maybe an aged grandparent or two, etc) in her family. Only two of them have a job....and she's one of them. Take away her income (becasue she's moving to the US to be with you) and now her family can't pay their rent.....better be prepared to send down enough every month to pay it for them (and maybe a little extra, so that they can get themselves something nice every now and then)

One more example: Short time together, a large (and unnecessary) expense totaly unrelated to anything caused by your releationship, i.e. a spendthrift sister thinks the 'rich grino' should pay her phone bill....I'm hearing bad bongos on this one.

... in response to its not the money its the principal, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 24, 2003

this is true, and i think that you need to REALLY neeed to make sure that you are dating the right one. so far, from what you have written in the past, i think most men would have gotten rid of her and found someone else that is more.... how to say... not so foward with asking for money or demanding things. to each his own, because i know a few guys who like a little conflict in their realtionship, me.. no way!!!!!! hope it works!!!

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

Most of the guys know if you don't I will tell you You will be sendind from $100 to $500 a month to Colombia the rest of your Marriage I know guys who send more It was a surprise for me
                Good Luck
                        Davey

... in response to Re: She is asking me for money now, posted by DaveyRich1 on Aug 23, 2003


Hey Davey,

It's okay to use periods and commas. Makes reading a lot easier. Other than that, you are right on target.

Henry Andre'

... in response to Re: She is asking me for money now, posted by DaveyRich1 on Aug 23, 2003

Wait till the day comes when you and your wife must send money home for a major medical emergency or long-term illness for one of her family members.  Trust me, it will happen, no matter what country she is from.  Comes with the territory.

For a man, marrying a foreign-born woman has additional responsibilities, only some of which are financial, that he will be expected to assume for the marriage to succeed, and you should be aware of these going in.

... in response to Re: She is asking me for money now, posted by DaveyRich1 on Aug 23, 2003

Yep,

Get used to it... If/when you "seal the deal", you should be willing to repalce the lost revenue provided by you novia...

If you are concerned about the financial responsibilities you will expected to help with, especially something as minor as a utility bill, my advice is to stay single... The "rent-a-date" avenue is much cheaper in the long run, but lacks in emotional fulfillment...

Mark

... in response to Re: Re: She is asking me for money now, posted by wizard on Aug 23, 2003

I don't mind replacing the lost revenue when she is here. Its about $55/month. But to have to suplement the family income when I am not even married is to much. Yo suggest "rent a date". I want the emotional fulfillment. It seems to cary a high financial price.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: She is asking me for money n..., posted by elcolombiano on Aug 24, 2003

[This message has been edited by wizard]

I didn't mean to sound callous... Everyone's circumstances are different...

The prize at the end of the rainbow is an emotionally fulfilling relationship that we as a group have been unable to attain here... You have to weed out the "also rans" during the process to determine who is sincere and who is not... The combination of sincerity, honesty, values, ethics and chemistry all factor into the decision to make a committment... Not an easy task...

As far as support during the "romance" stage of our relationship, my wife never asked me for a dime... She was working up to 80 hours a week and was trying to go to school too... I could tell that it was having it's effect on her... The long hours were killing her... She never complained and never asked for anything, but I could hear it in her voice... This spoke volumes to me as to her character and committment to her family, something that was at the top of my list... Once I knew she was the "one", I insisted that she cut back on her hours at work and offered to supplement their income...

In our case, my wife provided the sole means of support for her and her mother... When I brought my wife to the US, her mother had no means of support... I felt obligated to help Mom out... It's the only right thing to do...

If your relationship is fairly new and your novia is asking for money, I would consider it a red flag...

Mark

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

I think your answer can be found in the "Cuando dinero" post below.  Don't pay a dime and see if that phone really gets disconnected.

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

This is a red flag and you need to proceed with caution. She is now asking you to pay a bill incurred by a family member.  If she does this while you're engaged, what financial demands, I mean requests, will she make once you're married?  What she probably needs is a bank-not a husband.

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by Calipro]

"If I want to pay for a girl freind I can alway find a prostitute, what's the difference?"

The only difference is the emotional attachment and the price. Prostitutes are much cheaper in the long run.

Are you sure you are ready for this kind of commitment? I mean financially.

If you are having second thoughts about paying the phone bill so you can talk to her, what are you going to do when she gets here. She'll need warm clothes, an education and a car to get around in, etc. etc.

I guess you could keep her bare foot and pregnant or start lookiing for and older model.

... in response to Haven't you ever been married???, posted by Calipro on Aug 23, 2003

Its not the money its the principal

... in response to Haven't you ever been married???, posted by Calipro on Aug 23, 2003


Calipro:  "The emotional attachment" as you call it is what makes some men worth more then 97 cents of raw elements.  But, with your attitudes about women, I'll give you 6 to 1 odds that if you find another calena and go for #4, you don't last 36 months! Dominguin

... in response to Re: Haven't you ever been married???, posted by DOMINGUIN on Aug 23, 2003

Dominguin

You gotta have the emotional attachment otherwise you'll be crying over every dime you spend on her or trying to get your money's worth every time you go to bed. Neither one is a winning proposition.

What's wrong with my attitudes about women. Wine them, Dine them, 69 them.

Just kidding!!

But, if you are serious about them, what's wrong with picking up the phone bill?

... in response to Re: Re: Haven't you ever been married???, posted by Calipro on Aug 23, 2003


Calipro:

You and I are two different hombres, but lets air it out.

I was married for close to 23 years to the same woman.  That woman brought my son into the world, is a great mother, held me as I cried when my mother died, and 27 years ago, (just 60 days after I met her) ran out into the street in Manhattan in her pajamas to flag down a cab and got me to an emergency room at 3:30 AM when I had a temperature of 104+ and climbing. She made the best damned strawberry short cake I ever tasted, fought off cancer and survived, put up with a lot of my moods for a long time, and I never worried about her letting any man hit on her in all the years I knew her.  

I don't want to get religious or gooey, but I think most of the men on this board (if they just put a cork on the testosterone) would agree that a real relationship between a man and a woman is about a hell of a lot more then getting trim. No one is ever going to tell me that all marriages are a form of prostitution and its just a question of price. That's absolute bulls***t!!!!!  Instead of asking : How much is this going to cost me, maybe the question to ask is: what commitments can I make to make this woman know that she is loved?

Between you and I we've had four marriages, I made mistakes in my first marriage that hopefully I wouldn't repeat if I remarried. Can you admit that you made any mistakes?

Come on back WR, your turn.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Haven't you ever been marrie..., posted by DOMINGUIN on Aug 23, 2003

You are preaching to the choir.

I can't find much in your previous posts that I don't agree with except your opinion of me. Maybe we are more alike than you would like to believe.

It seems like you want to debate something so let me throw a few ideas your way.

I think it is ridiculous  for someone to equate their girl friend with a prostitute just because she asked for help with the phone bill.

I don't think young women are inherently more insincere than older women when it comes to meeting a guy for marriage.

I don't think there is anything wrong with guys selecting a women based on her physical beauty and youth for an initial date.

I don't agree with the engineering approach to selecting marriage prospects. You know where you multiply the women's age by her years of formal education and then you decide based on the highest score which one to ask out first. Also, I don't think guys that use the engineering approach are moraly superior either.

I pity anybody that thinks they can look at a picture and determine if a women is cheap, easy or a prostitute. It is disturbing that some of you choose to think this when you know nothing about these women or their relationships with me. For the record, none of the women in the photos were any of those things. I personally like to think of them as attractive and available:- )

I don't think that showing women photos of your big house and nice car is a good idea. It just confuses the issue. First dates should be about physical attraction (animal attraction) and if the two of you enjoy each others company in a casual setting. What more can you really expect from a first date anyway??

Dominguin:

I have made a few mistakes in my life time. But, I'm not about to sit around and cry about them either. I would like to end this a little more personally but I can' remember your initials. Sorry!!

Chao,  Calipro

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Haven't you ever been marrie..., posted by DOMINGUIN on Aug 23, 2003

Wow, not everybody here is a superficial idiot!  Perhaps I get too cynical at times.   It just seems that the majority of posts here come from guys looking for the arm candy.  Nice to know there are some thoughtful men posting.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Haven't you ever been marrie..., posted by DOMINGUIN on Aug 23, 2003

Calipro posts pictures of girls and calls it back to the real world. What you just described IS the real thing. But there are men who go overseas looking for a Peter Pan experience in Never-Never land where the girls are always young and easy and the men get to pretend that their age doesn't matter. That kind of experience doesn't cost the man anything, or does it? From a superficial viewpoint, it looks a whole lot easier than living with a woman and being involved in her life and doing what love requires. I pity men (and women) who settle for that kind of relationship: they really have no idea what they are missing.

... in response to Thank you for a dose of reality!, posted by surfscum on Aug 23, 2003

My bet is you have never been married.  No mas.

... in response to Never-Never land?, posted by cancunhound on Aug 23, 2003

My point is that men in their 40's and older are chasing a fantasy by going after a much younger woman of say, 18-22. The ability of a 43 year old man to attract a hot young 19 year old can be a heady drug, but it's not likely to lead to a permanent, mutually fulfilling relationship.

... in response to Chasing fantasies, posted by surfscum on Aug 23, 2003

The age difference thing has appeared many times here.  Bottom line - it works in Colombia, now how it works back in the US is based upon your peers.
(Damn, I'm getting close to 40)
I see your point.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Haven't you ever been marrie..., posted by DOMINGUIN on Aug 23, 2003

Nothing bad to say about your ex wife? Not going to hate all AW because you got divorced? Don't equate marriage with paying for sex?

THANK YOU! For a breathe of fresh air. Not sure how well it will play here at the frat house, but it is good to see and read a post like yours. Thanks again.

... in response to This has got to be a first!, posted by Ralph on Aug 23, 2003

Dom,
    It does seem you are mentally very ready for a nice wife. Yes, women and relatioships are more than just sex. I am engaged to a woman who is close to my age. Near 30. She is beautiful and treats me like a king. But you would not believe how many guys much older than me tell she is old. They say If they ever married a foreign women she would be  an 18 -22 year old.
   I cannot believe how many guys see these girls as nothing but a hot piece of A**. I tell them I was looking for a relationship built on mutual love,respect,trust,compatibility,ect.
 My fiance is a professional and will be able to make a great living in the U.S. after a few yeras. I do not worry about her finding a better match for herself after acclimating here, because we pretty much match up. I did not go beyond my league so I can keep a wife for a few years, just to find a new one.
   Why marry a foreign woman then? First off,foreign or not, you look for a woman who is compassionate,loving,sweet,somewhat independent. One from a loving family who does not try to take advantage of others. Too many women out for a free ride overseas,and here in the U.S.
   The funny thing about people searching for foreign wives is the fact most men swear the women are much more sincere,and do not care about age differences.
  Well, in the U.S. there are plenty of girls that do not care about age differences either. Though you will find most of these girls hanging out with very rich men and she is called a "goldigger".
   In most poor countries, young girls perceive AM to be rich. So just like young girls in the U.S. , the age difference matters less when there is money involved. Many people will assume AM are worth much more that they really are.Like Mike says, even in the U.S. some do not mind the age difference, but those are ususally the ones who think she should be "taken care of",and compensated for her youth and beauty.
  The young foreign wife is often dissapointed when she comes to the U.S. and sees the reality of her "rich" American husbands life.
  I have heard of girls becoming topless dancers,nude models,upgrading to a richer husband or becoming  goldiggers once in the U.S. In fact, right now, I am dealing with a friend married to a 22 year old Brazilian girl who is seperated from him,and dancing nude because the "money" is just too easy.
 It is shocking that she knows alot of foreign girls in this country for a short time doing the same thing.Many of the girls she knows are Russian,latin. Most got here by marrying some guy they thought was rich. Now, they realize they can make $500-$1,000 a night and not have to deal with the guy they married.
   So, you are right. Men should think of women in a realistic way. Think with your big head,and choose wisely.If she is poor and needs assistance once in awhile, it is nice to help a little. But if a woman is asking you for money for a silly bill,such as her sister's phone bill or stuff like that you need to have a talk. Because it seems the family does not have much morals and they see you as nothing but an ATM.
   If you were engaged to an AW would you think it ok to help her financially once in awhile if she really needed help? If her parents were sick ?Sure you would.
  But would you be handing her money when her family runs up the phone bill or their electric bill? No way!
      Mark  

... in response to Re: This has got to be a first!, posted by Mark33 on Aug 23, 2003

great post BTW.

... in response to So don't date a hot latina?, posted by cancunhound on Aug 23, 2003

Sure you can date a hot foreign girl. But try for one over 25 at least. Also, the less "money" problems she and her family have, the better. A gorgeous woman with a family plagued with money problems should be a huge red flag. Is she marryingyou because she loves you or as a way out of poverty?
  Will she be using you as a sponser for a green card or will she love you till the end?
  If she is from a family who can basically take care of themselves well,and have good jobs most likely she is sincere.
    MArk

... in response to Re: So don't date a hot latina?, posted by Mark33 on Aug 23, 2003

She is over 25. She is 31.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Haven't you ever been marrie..., posted by DOMINGUIN on Aug 23, 2003

Dom

Some of us have had that kind of relationship and when we look back, it makes our life a success. As you know, nothing lasts forever but having that in your memory makes it worth being born.   An intelligent and moving post!!! jimc

... in response to She is asking me for money now, posted by elcolombiano on Aug 22, 2003

How well do you know her?  You did say "fiancée" so I would imagine that the two of you are serious.  It seems strange that now that you have become serious your only means of communicating with her (the phone) is now under threat of being turned off if you don't send money.  My feeling is that you must decide if you want the relationship or not.  If you do, you might want to have a conversation about money.  Let her know how you feel about sending it, what circumstance are acceptable or not acceptable.  Don't be suprised if you receive a request for money following that conversation, using one of the acceptable circumstances as the reason.  You would then have to evaluate the motives behind your fiancées interest in you.  Personally, money is a means to an end.