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[This message has been edited by senge]

It may be a tired subject, but I can never get a logical explanation.  So, I'll ask it here..

Why do American women dislike nice guys?  I'm not talking sissy nice guys, but nice guys with decent intentions.

Also, will a nice guy meet a similiar fate with LA women?

... in response to Nices guys finish..., posted by senge on Aug 15, 2003

I agree with everyone's answer to this question that has long intrigued me, but I think that the question and answers go deeper than this. A man who is too nice, or a door matt, will turn off ANY woman. I think a better question is "why are so many women attracted to the bad boys, and dislike the nice guys, even those who are confident and not a doormatt?

I have witnessed this so many times it is sickening. I have asked that question to people from all walks of life,
men and women, young and old, rich and poor, and these are the most common responses:

1. They need a challenge

2. "Nice" goes hand-in-hand with "boring"

3. Immaturity. Women in their 30's and up are much more
  fed-up with the bad boys

4. Low self-esteem. In other words, they believe that they
  deserve to be treated like dirt.

5. The way they were raised, ex) from a broken family

6. "nice" sometimes presents as a sign of desperation.

I am not writing a book about psychology. I'm just intrigued with this question because the attraction to the bad boys is rampant and extends to the most intelligent of women. But I also think that MOST women are attracted to a nice guy.

Zack

... in response to Re: Nices guys finish..., posted by zack on Aug 16, 2003

In regards to senge's second question, "will nice guys meet the same fate in LA?"

Personally, I think that Colombia is a haven for nice men.
That is, intelligent, intuative, nice men who are not doormatts. Most latinas are fed up with the Colombian bad boys and are very appreciative of nice men. In fact, that is the reason why many latinas join agencies in the first place. Some of these women are so fed up that they are willing to sacrifice everything and move to America just to marry a nice man. I know that the American lifestyle
also plays a role, obviously. But nice, honest, faithful men in Colombia are in short supply, at least compared to the number of women.

Senge, I think you are looking in the right place. Just be careful of the bad girls with hidden agendas, go slow, be smart, and you will do fine.

Zack

... in response to nice guys finish first in Colombia..., posted by zack on Aug 16, 2003

thanks for this info and advice.  will do.

... in response to Nices guys finish..., posted by senge on Aug 15, 2003

I believe I answered this question a bit in the subject "Do woman want a plan".... and didn't get a response to this....  It was along the same subject.

"Senge".... I agree with you to a certain degree.  But why generalize on Americans or woman for that matter??  It is true... many "american woman" step on the "nice guy" and adore the "jerk".  WHY????  There is no logical explaination for this in my option.  Why throw away "happiness" for a "words that shouldn't be used" !?!?!

I AM an American tall Blonde, blue eyed Woman, and I am very proud of this.  However, I do love the "nice guy", and adore them!!!! How are these woman raised and what are their past experiences, and values???  You wouldn't want them anyway. I have had experiences in my past with an ex-husband who thought woman are posessions and a punching bag!!!  I worked hard for 2 years to make it work.... but the moment he layed one finger on my son, I was GONE!!!!  I know both sides.... and the MOMENT the guy shows he is not the "nice guy" he pretends to be.... I am gone, and looking again.  I am also on that very same quest for the perfect match.... (not perfect person.... because I am not either)

I have many friends that are wonderful, trustworthy, nice, men.  People such as this are truely diamonds in the rough!!!  Keep searching... those noble (true ones) efforts do not always go unnoticed by the opposite sex!!!!  Cheryl

... in response to Re: Nices guys finish..., posted by Cherinha on Aug 15, 2003

I am really puzzled now?????  Why did you marry him?

... in response to Re: Nices guys finish..., posted by Cherinha on Aug 15, 2003

Hi Cheryl,

I cannot say that I am a typical 'nice guy'.   Although i am not a rude type either, i have just learned how to deal with women better (well, I'm 36, so its about time!)

The topic has always been interesting to me, which is why i posted it.  i'm not criticizing American ladies.

thanks!

... in response to Nices guys finish..., posted by senge on Aug 15, 2003

Even Colombianas,who most likely have had their fill of macho behaviour by Colombian males still don't want a guy who is a door mat.They want the man to be in charge.If you are just too overwhelmingly accomodating they might think thats what they want,but do not on an immotional level.They need some challenge and uncertainty to respect you I think.
I think the guy with the web site has a point.Basically they either care for you or they do not.If they do not and you are trying to get them to by giving them material things
not only will it ultimately not make any difference, but they will probably resent you for it also.And you could  be out lots of time and money and have a world of frustration.
Make damm sure she cares about you.There has to be a romantic emotional attraction.If that is there then you can be genereous.If not nothing you do will work.Take as long as it takes to find out.If unsure move on.So simple to say,so hard to do sometimes.Its relationship 1A but we tend to forget sometimes.

Pete

... in response to Nices guys finish..., posted by senge on Aug 15, 2003

Even Colombianas,who most likely have had their fill of macho behaviour by Colombian males still don't want a guy who is a door mat.They want the man to be in charge.If you are just too overwhelmingly accomodating they might think thats what they want,but do not on an immotional level.They need some challenge and uncertainty to respect you I think.
I think the guy with the web site has a point.Basically they either care for you or they do not.If they do not and you are trying to get them to by giving them material things
not only will it ultimately not make any difference, but they will probably resent you for it also.And you could  be out lots of time and money and have a world of frustration.
Make damm sure she cares about you.There has to be a romantic emotional attraction.If that is there then you can be genereous.If not nothing you do will work.Take as long as it takes to find out.If unsure move on.So simple to say,so hard to do sometimes.Its relationship 1A but we tend to forget sometimes.

Pete

... in response to Fine line between a nice guy and a door ..., posted by Pete E on Aug 15, 2003

Pete E . . . has it down cold. You can be out a ton of time and money if you do not watch your self and pay attention to details. I am refering to even the really nice girls (not saying they mean any harm, but. . .) Not a good idea to through a money about as a means to impress. It's about you, it's about the two of you together and it's about the relationship.

... in response to Re: Fine line between a nice guy and a d..., posted by indigo on Aug 15, 2003

Isn't this obvious?

I sometimes wonder about the IMPLIED other side of the coin.
Guys who have had some bad experiences and learnt the hard way.

I sympathise and empathise with guys like that. But why should latinas be any different to western women?

We're all the same inside, just different on the outside - yadda, yadda, yadda. But its true. By this I mean that if you strip away differences in personality and character - then underneath all humans yearn to love and be loved. ALL.

... in response to Re: Fine line between a nice guy and a d..., posted by indigo on Aug 15, 2003

Exactly!!!  A man that spent all day planning in his mind the evening.... spent $12 on pizza and a drink, and an outdoorsy, watch the sun go down and spend time together, means more to someone who cares about you, then spending $100 on dinner, $120 on theater... etc.  I'm not saying that a nice evening out once and a while isn't nice though..... but money doesn't have to be the center... it's the relationship... and the right person will see this... and the wrong one will complain about it...

... in response to Nices guys finish..., posted by senge on Aug 15, 2003

I happen to think it has to do with the viewpoint women in US have versus LA, and that is competitive versus cooperational. More US girls want to compete with men now, its that whole feminist gig motif that every girl to a certain extent now understands at some level, I'm better than you, and of course badder than you. "If you arent tall dark and handsome and have some dinero, then what do you have to offer me, nice guy, I get those all damn day, gimme something different". The latin girls have had enough bad boy crap; drunk, carousing, leaving them pregnant, beaten and left without a dime wears thin a lot quicker down there where the family law system doesnt favor them like it protects them here. Most LA girls know the score and want a guy to partner up with, one who treats them good but knows how to be bad the right way. But there are those from both US and LA that buck the trend so cant say its absolutely one way all around....my 2 cents too....

... in response to Nices guys finish..., posted by senge on Aug 15, 2003

Dood.. Sign up for the free email discussion list on www.doubleyourdating.com

It is all explained there why guys who think they are acting "nice" actually are sabotaging (sp) themselves.

... in response to Re: Nices guys finish..., posted by CaliAdvisor on Aug 15, 2003

The basic principles of this guy Diangelo is that attraction is not a choice that people make. Therefore, buying a women things and treating her nice is not going to create attraction. Attraction is a gut level instinct that we as humans have no controll over. You can never convince a woman to like you buy acting really nice to her. You have to do the things which stimulate the feelings of attraction. This is what supposedly he teaches you in the course. I have no need to buy the course, however I have found the free email alerts entertaining.

WARNING: What this guy talks about in his email alerts in many cases MAY NOT be aplicable to latin woman. He is mostly talking about the spoiled american or european type.

... in response to Re: Re: Nices guys finish..., posted by CaliAdvisor on Aug 15, 2003

Aaron, go finish you dissertation and stop the inane postings.

... in response to Nices guys finish..., posted by senge on Aug 15, 2003

Logic has little or nothing to do with a woman's perception of a man...

All women, regardless of origin, are searching for a "take-charge" and confident man... It just seems that more AW want a bad boy as apposed to a nice guy... All women will test the intestinal fortitude of a man to see if they can walk all over you... The trick is to give them what they want while remaining in charge and presenting an aura of authority...

In my experience, latinas want a confident man, but appreciate nice guys too... It seems that most latinas in the search have had enough of the machista latinos...

mis dos centavos...

Mark

... in response to Nices guys finish..., posted by senge on Aug 15, 2003

my opinion, american women need a challenge, and nice guys are not a challenge. women from diffrent countries have  challenges every day, keeping their jobs, worrying about money, their family, getting robbed, raped, or sexualy assualted,worrying about their husband cheating or boyfriend haveing more than 1 girlfriend, so they are looking for a stable, nice guy they can trust, where american women (and i mean the average american women, there are exceptions) dont have to worry about these things as much, so they have a lot of free time and get bored. case in point, my neighbor across the street, has been chasing me around since i moved into this neighborhood and has made it VERY clear that she wants to dump her boyfriend, who she is liveing with and go out with me. NO WAY!!!! he is a nice guy, very boring though and totaly clueless and she is pretty hot.
just my observation from what i have seen, not saying that a girl from a foreign country wont change into the typical women here, but i would take my chances and look to other countriesbefore marrying one of these spoiled girls.

... in response to Re: Nices guys finish..., posted by mudd on Aug 15, 2003

Here's another website.
The guy's got some interesting stuff.
www.steelballs.com