Title: Ethics,lies and what you are willing to acept Post by: Pete E on April 20, 2003, 04:00:00 AM I guess its slow Sunday for me so here I am on computer.My wife is working,I was going to sun bathe but its cloudy.And its been a little boring around here anyway.
So let me pull up a theme that has ben going on at Latin Womanm List. Our buddy Dallas Steve admitted there was a difference between what he says someone SHOULD do and what he himself has actually done.Its a brave and true admission I think.Here goes my response. Steve makes an excellent point.There is what someone(usually not us) SHOULD do and then there is what a person actually does.The action is not a philosophical question,it is something that will affect your life,sometimes immediately for what emotionally would be a percieved negative.The action has an emotional element,just BullSh--ing about it doesn't. Pete Title: Re: Ethics,lies and what you are willing to acept Post by: Jersey Mike on April 21, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Ethics,lies and what you are willing to ..., posted by Pete E on Apr 20, 2003
Pete, You raise an excellent point, because many cultures regard honesty and lying much differently than we do. (I had previously regarded latin culture to be more closely aligned with our value system than FSU or Asian cultures, but I am beginning to reconsider this position based on both personal experience and the experiences of others I know, plus the postings on this board.) I think that we tend to see honesty in terms of black & white, but other cultures see it in many shades of grey. Perhaps this difference is due in part to economic necessity, but deceitfulness can become institutionalized in some cultures. On the other hand, my first wife ,who was an AW, used to insist that she was an absolutely honest person. However, she used "honesty" as an excuse to say things that were cruel and hurtful instead of an occasional white lie to avoid confrontation. Title: A red flag veteran speaks Post by: DallasSteve2 on April 21, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Ethics,lies and what you are willing to ..., posted by Pete E on Apr 20, 2003
Pete As we know I ignored a stadium full of red flags during my marriage to my "ex-Colombiana". Many readers assume that I stayed in the marriage because I couldn't walk away. That's not the case. I stayed in the marriage because she kept asking me to stay. She kept telling me that she loved me and wanted to be with me. I should not have taken her words at face value but I did. I think the reason I took her words at face value was because I was very much in love with her and I wanted to believe what she was saying. The fine point I am trying to make here might be illustrated with a comparison to my current wife. She has two men in Colombia who still keep begging her to come back and marry them. They can't let go. They are obsessed. I may have been infatuated, but letting go is not a problem. I've been through enough of these that I know how to walk away. (I used to sing La Moscas' song to my ex-wife: "Yo rompere tus fotos, yo quemare tus cartas, para no pensarte mas.") Other men may stay because they can't walk away. I booked a flight to Cali. Granted, for two weeks I asked her if she wanted to come back, but then it was off to Villa Princesa. So what difference does this fine point make? In the land of the foreign brides a man may find himself with a girlfriend or fiance or wife who doesn't love him, but wants to maintain the relationship for other reasons. If she turns on the charm it can be very easy to ignore the red flags and keep riding that wave. I stayed because my ex kept begging me to stay. I always told her if she didn't want to be with me to set me free so I could find someone who really wants to be with me. As the Talking Heads sang: "Watch out. You might get what you're after." Steve PS. And don't tell me "denial is not just the state of mind of the people that live near a river in Egypt". Title: Re: Ethics,lies and what you are willing to acept Post by: Cali James on April 21, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Ethics,lies and what you are willing to ..., posted by Pete E on Apr 20, 2003
Pete, I always go back to the Papaya rule when trying to understand some of the behavior I've experienced when in Colombia. The papaya rule is basicly about taking advantage of oppurtunity when the occasion arises and my experience is that many times this comes at the expense of things like ethics, truth or even love . Of course in Colombia, the Colombians themselves are very aware of the papaya and so people tend to be very suspicious of others in just about everything but especially in business or in matters of money. I think relationships are a different matter and consistemnt lying can't be excused away by things like papaya's. Trust is at the foundation of any successful relationship and a person who lies in a relationship is attacking the relationship at it's core. I don't think lying should be tolerated between novios or spouses but I also believe that some things in our lives are private and don't need to be revealed either. There may be times when a white lie is appropriate but a white lie is when you tell your girlfriend she's the most beautiful woman in the world but not when you tell her you worked late at work but really you watched football with your buddies. Cali James Title: Re: Re: Ethics,lies and what you are willing to acept Post by: Pete E on April 21, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Ethics,lies and what you are willing..., posted by Cali James on Apr 21, 2003
James, The papaya rule sounds interesting.I get the flaovor of it but would like to know more. I was commenting on truthfullness,or avesion to lying in general.I think there is a cultral difference here.In a relationship the magnitude of the issue could be an important point.Lying about important issues is different from a story or excuse approach vs uncomfortable admissions. For me personally the lies are not about huge things.A bigger problem is denial or getting stonewalled when I want to discuss something important.An unwillingness to be open about things is different from actual lying,but basically dishonest if even in a passive way.It can be extremely frustrating. Pete Title: Re: Re: Re: Ethics,lies and what you are willing to acept Post by: Cali James on April 21, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Ethics,lies and what you are wil..., posted by Pete E on Apr 21, 2003
Jim C first wrote about papayas and going back to the archives you can read some of his comments below; http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/latin/archives/display.php?archive=000098&id=31933 http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/latin/archives/index000099.php#32139 http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/latin/archives/display.php?archive=000067&id=23596 Title: Cali James Post by: DaveyRich1 on April 21, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Ethics,lies and what you are willing..., posted by Cali James on Apr 21, 2003
James E-Mail me your phone number we have moved to Las Vegas would like to see you and your new bride Take Care Dave and Zuleima |