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Why do guys send flowers to women they dont know and have never met? Especially all the way to Colombia? I am just really curious what prompts a guy to do this. Do you think it makes you special in some way? It always struck me as the easiest way out for a guy to do something for a woman. It doesnt take any thought or planning. You just pick up the phone, give your credit card number, and off they go, delivered by some stranger to her door. And why do the women think this is such a special thought? It doesnt take any thought at all, its the easiest and most hassle free, lazy thing a guy can do. It cracks me up when guys send flowers to a total stranger (other than email, which means you are still a stranger) in a foreign country without even knowing if you like each other. I think it sends the wrong message in alot of cases. Does anyone think its better to first meet somebody in person, ascertain whether she likes you or not, before trying to buy her off with flowers?

I am not trying to argue, I am genuinely curious about this phenomenon. I always went by the policy to never do anything like that until I could see whether it was worth my while. It reminds me of some of the dopes I met in Cali who would roll into town and two or three guys would take out the calenas and some of their friends and start buying dinners, drinks, presents, etc....and the girls obviously using them for all they were worth......

... in response to Flowers, posted by Yalg on Apr 7, 2003

to know that you're thinking of them. That's all there is to it. Sending flowers is one way of demonstrating that. I imagine you don't think highly of sending cards since everyone else does that too, but women love them also. Such demonstrations needn't be pricey as long as they communicate you are thinking about her. Once you communicate that, you have nearly won her heart.

Whether to do this with a stranger is another matter, one I would leave up to common sense.

... in response to Re: Flowers, posted by Red Clay on Apr 7, 2003

[This message has been edited by Aaron]

I think it's totally acceptable, and a nice gesture for a guy to send a woman flowers and a nice note even prior to meeting her.

But, keep things light by not coming on too strong. And don't expect too much because if she has impressed you that much to send her flowers prior to meeting in person, then chances are other men feel the same way and are doing the same thing.

Also, it isn't just about the flowers and the letter sent, but one thing that will work in a guy's favor is the fact that the lady is going to wonder who the man is and what's he like, and if she really likes the gift, letter, and photos; then she'll be impressed and willing to meet this..."mystery man".

I really don't advocate writing because a girl could be writing guys, and lead one of them along. Also, a guy could be writing a girl, get all worked up, but then once they meet in person there's no chemistry. Nope, I've been burned this route before. So, I made it a rule a long time ago, don't write unless she really impresses you, and you will be in her home town within the next month or so to see her in person. And if you write, make it worth her while by sending a nice small gift, or some flowers.

In my opinion, keeping in contact with the agencies, asking them about certain female members, then visit for introductions is better than relying on writing alone to establish a first encounter. But, others may disagree. I'm sure there are reasonable arguments for and against any method a person decides to use.

My 75 cents.

Aaron

... in response to I totally agree with Red Clay here..., posted by Aaron on Apr 7, 2003

Aaron

You wrote:

"I think it's totally acceptable ... to send a woman flowers ... even prior to meeting her."

Then you wrote:

"But, keep things light by not coming on too strong."

Others here obviously don't agree, but I would say that sending flowers or gifts to a woman before you meet her not only is coming on too strong, it makes the man looks desperate.

My wife got flowers from some gringo, but he was overweight and so she would not even meet him. I never sent her flowers in Cali and she chased me like the last bus out of Baghdad.

Has anybody here sent gifts to a woman he never met and had good results? I'm sure it happens, but she was probably going to be interested in him with or without the flowers/gifts.

I think that sending flowers/gifts before you meet a woman can only hurt your chances.

Steve

... in response to Wait until you at least meet her, posted by DallasSteve2 on Apr 8, 2003

[This message has been edited by Aaron]

....it doesn't mean you are 100% correct.

Here's another one for you. I'll be in Cali this April, and I have a lady friend there whom I've known for about a year. We've met in person before.

I'm taking her some perfume, body creme, and flowers, totally over $50.00 USD.

Now, my question for you is, "am I being foolish or not?"

Also, keep in mind, you don't know my friend, nor what she considers acceptable for our relationship, nor do you know what she and I consider as being desperate behavior. But, you can believe me, I'm pretty far from desperate.

My point is, courting depends on the particular people involved. Just as I cannot claim that ALL couples who meet and marry in less than 12 months will end up divorced, you cannot claim that ALL guys who send flowers prior to the first encounter are desperate, and the lady isn't going to like them.

My 45 cents.

Aaron

... in response to Huh?, posted by DallasSteve2 on Apr 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by Aaron]

"My point is, courting depends on the particular people involved. Just as I cannot claim that ALL couples who meet and marry in less than 12 months will end up divorced, you cannot claim that ALL guys who send flowers prior to the first encounter are desperate, and the lady isn't going to like them."

You really can't claim that all women see things the same way. Some women would like the gesture, others wont. Some men think it's acceptable, others don't.

Some men would consider me spending over $50.00 on a lady whom I'm not seriously involved with as crazy, but I don't. Some men think paying taxi fare for their dates is unnecessary, but others don't. Some men think paying for the entire date is too much and would like to split the costs, but others don't. Some men think getting married in less than a year is ok, but others don't. Some men and women think visiting foreign marriage agencies is desperate and crazy, but others don't. Some men think this board is crazy, but others don't....etc. etc. etc..

I guarantee you, if you had been writing with a really pretty, and nice girl who corresponded with you consistently prior to the first encounter, you would probably send her flowers too. That's human nature.

Aaron

... in response to Re: I totally agree with Red Clay here....., posted by Red Clay on Apr 7, 2003

A BIG bouquet of flowers and a nice card has a way of separating you from other suitors... But not until you've at least met them... It doesn't help either party to build false expectations prior to meeting for the first time...

I knew a girl from LA that was getting letters from lots of men from all over the world... So many that she lost track of them after awhile... Especially since they never traveled to LA... Some even sent her small gifts, flowers, candy, etc... These from someone she had never met... Most of the time she couldn't put a face with a gift if she had too... She laughed about this with me as we both wondered what these guys were thinking...

Letter writing is a waste of time... Most girls get many letters/emails, mostly from men who will never travel to visit them... After awhile, they just ignore them unless you TELL them early on WHEN you plan to travel to meet them...

mis dos centavos...

... in response to Re: Re: I totally agree with Red Clay he..., posted by wizard on Apr 7, 2003

Anyone considering letter writing should set a time frame for traveling to meet the women and tell them that in the first letter. Not only do most of the men writing never travel, but we've even found that almost half the address sales never even result in a letter being sent. I think once any real effort comes into the picture, many of the men lose interest. It's easy to fantasize in front of a computer screen, but going from that to an actual marriage requires a lot of effort and some risk, which most guys aren't willing to take.

Buying addresses is a very easy thing to do and is much lower cost than traveling. Guys afraid of traveling to a third world country, broke, or not too serious are probably drawn to this in larger numbers. It's the most risk-free, lowest cost way to start looking for a wife and requires no commitment. Because of that, you have to be sure to let the women know you're serious or those who've already been through a 6-12 month correspondance with a man who never comes down are going to be hesitant to put any effort into you.

That said, we had one guy write to 6 or 7 ladies (can't remember which number) who sent flowers to each with his initial letter. He got responses from all of them and ended up married about a year later. Perhaps he was just a good catch and the flowers made no difference. I have no doubt that if a 55 year-old overweight, bald K-Mart security guard tried the same thing, his results wouldn't be as good, but flowers won't hurt a man's chances IMHO. How you present and conduct yourself will make desparation, if it exists, obvious. Confidence will also come through, and flowers won't make a confident man look unattractive.

I didn't send my wife flowers. I didn't even tell the ladies when (or if) I'd be traveling to meet them. Instead, I relied on statistics. I wrote to enough women to ensure that some would respond. Of those who did, I narrowed the field and then visited after I was more confident that we matched up well. If I had it to do over again, I would at least give them a rough date of when I planned to visit.

There were always some who reveiled something I didn't like. One wrote to me about how she liked to run through the forest barefoot and hug the trees to absorb their "energy." She wanted to know my exact time, date, and place of birth for an astrological assessment. Obviously not a good match for an engineer who doesn't believe in ghosts, bigfoot, flying saucers, the lock ness monster (or astrology).

... in response to Naked too?, posted by Cali vet on Apr 9, 2003

Now that you mention it, I believe she may indeed have said she ran naked. It's been a while. She was definitely hugging the trees though.

I figure there's less K-Mart security guards than Walmart security guards, so I stick with the K-Mart variety in order to offend a few less people.

I just think guys need to be more realistic. I did a personal ad for a 40-something guy in a wheel chair once. He was looking for a woman in her 20s who liked to wear bikinis around the house and would watch XXX movies with him. He worded it a bit more conservatively than that, but that was the gist of it. I think some guys believe in the literal "mail order bride" and figure pretty much any woman they want can be their's in this process, no matter what they themselves bring to the table. If U.S. residency is all a man has to offer, there's going to be problems.

With enough luck and persistence a guy can succeed in marrying someone way out of their league, but I think it's much more likely to be a bad marriage under those circumstances. I've actually had guys say I'm jealous about their young wives when I harp on the age issue. I married a woman 2 1/2 years younger than myself. After only a little experience with women 10 years younger, I decided to stay closer to my age. Being able to talk to someone with a similar level of life experience outweighs the cheesecake facter in my mind. I think larger age differences aren't too big a deal for older people, like a 55 year old man marrying a 35 year-old woman (unless of course he's an overweight bald K-Mart security guard!). But I think the 40-somethings marrying women in their early to mid twenties are more risky. Not saying they don't work out, I'm just saying I think they're higher risk. I don't believe Latin women "mature faster" as many claim.

... in response to She may have been, posted by Patrick on Apr 10, 2003

Patrick,

You deserve a standing ovation for that one. The claims that latinas mature faster, even at younger ages is totally hog-wash.

I think they may have stonger values "in the favorable direction," but the maturity issue is a little different.

Basically, with limited exposure and experience in life, and less responsibility, I tend to think allot of younger latinas are a little naive, and don't understand some of the kinds of responsibilites that they may face in the USA. This is something I've noticed even with ladies not in agencies. It's not necessarily a bad thing, unless it is too extreme, but I'm just making an observation.

This is one reason why I get turned off with allot of the younger girls in their early 20s. I like the women 3 years below or above 30. I relate to them better.

Also, I learned that for many latinas, dating a younger man isn't a problem, providing he's mature and "in shape."

My $1.35

Aaron

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I totally agree with Red Cla..., posted by Red Clay on Apr 8, 2003

About the guys that buy flowers before they meet, well the girl you might be buying flowers for might already be seeing another gringo in person. My example is on Valentines day I bought my novia some roses after we had been dating for 2 weeks. As I entered her apt I noticed this huge boquet of flowers on her living room table. Granted flowers are cheap in Colombia but these looked more impresive than the roses I bought for her. I asked who they were from she told me they were from an exboyfriend. Later she was embarrased that they came from a guy that she had never met from the agency. She kept the flowers as she liked them but thought the guy was crazy for sending her flowers and he had never met her. That following sunday the Guy called her place while I was there and was asking to come meet her family and wanted to marry her. I thought it was all amusing. I thought get in line!

Later my novia and I went down to the agency and had her data removed because she didnt want any more guys to call or write her. For those guys that want to send flowers before they meet the girl in person it might be a wasted gesture. Its a fact that a lot of the women at the agencies that post thier mailing, email and phone number get lots and lots of solicitations. My novia had so many that she couldnt focus on writing them all. Plus she figured the guys probably wrote to hundreds of women too. How I met her was she wrote me first through my data from an agency before she started getting responses to her data. Plus I was the only one to go to Colombia to meet her in person too. Thats when I bought her flowers for the first time. Writing does take a lot of effort, but as I say to each his own and love doesnt really have many rules. If there was a sure fire way of doing it we wouldnt need to listen to others opinions or experiences we would already know.

Tengan una buena dia

... in response to 2 Questions, posted by DallasSteve2 on Apr 9, 2003

Yes, she really got 300 letters. She was listed with TLC, the 800 lb gorilla of the Latin match making market.

To start the business, learn Spanish, place advertisements in Latin American newspapers, build a web site and promote it. To do well though, you'll have to quit your current job and invest a lot in advertising to the men. I think TLC advertises in several major US publications. I've seen their ads in USA Today in the past. That's got to be major bucks to buy their space. If you want to do it small time like we do, expect to work for some pretty low wages. We made a little over $5,000 profit for 2002. Would have been a couple of thousand higher, but this site and goodwife.com lose money and I've been too buzy (and lazy) to get the advertising running again for a couple of years. It's a good way for your wife to work from home and earn enough for a little spending money and perhaps fund an IRA for her. That's what we do. Expect to lose money for the first year or two.

Unless you go into this in a big way, there's not really much money to be made. I think you also have to compromise on ethics if you want to make more. At the end of the day though, you've got to live with yourself, so it's a personal choice. I don't think there's that many really dishonest operators out there. Not nearly as many as most guys believe, but I do think most of the agencies paint an overly rosey picture of the process and associated risks.

... in response to Re: 2 Questions, posted by Patrick on Apr 9, 2003

I think the ones that make money at this must be a little dishonest. My novia was part of a small local agency, and trusted her data to only this agency. The agency turned around and gave her data to TLC and they listed her in the current issue. She was pretty mad about this to say the least. They told her in order to take her data off she would have to send a signed fax "requesting it" to them in Texas from Bogota.

It makes me wonder how many of the women in thier magazines wanted to be posted, or where they get thier fotos from. I used to think they got them from women that sent them thier data or from the tours.
The women some guys are writing to from there may not have permited TLC to post her data to be sold and published. My novia had no idea that she was going to be seen by thousands of men. She thought that she was joining a private discrete singles service to meet extranjeros. She is embarrased and mad that she is in thier magazine without her permission.
Overall Id say the fotos are good to look at, but best to save the money from buying a flotila of adresses and instead save the money for a future plane ticket.

... in response to Re: 2 Questions, posted by Patrick on Apr 9, 2003

Patrick

We're probably too busy to give you any competition right now, but maybe someday.

I was really more interested in the rate of men writing versus meeting the women. If only one man out of 300+ letters actually met her, that is very surprising to me. I would have guessed maybe 50 letters and 5 visits.

Maybe what happens a lot is what happened in my case. I wrote about 50 women in 1999, but I only met 4 mainly because of time contstraints. I would guess that in the case of your wife 20 or 30 of those 300+ letter writers arrived in Colombia, but they chose to meet other women instead of your wife.

Still, her "actual visit rate" was surprisingly low.

Steve

... in response to Flowers, posted by Yalg on Apr 7, 2003

I don't know why anyone would send flowers to a complete stranger. I think the most important part of sending flowers is the note that goes along with them. I did send flowers to a caleña once. She saw me out with another woman and stopped returning my calls. After I sent her flowers and the little note that goes along with them, things turned around. I hope this helps you out.

As for the guys that buy dinner and drinks for their dates, let me know when they are going down to Cali, because just about every time I go I run into the biggest bunch of tight wads I have ever met. Once,I went out on a double date with another american and his date in Cali. His date ordered a red bull and the club charged him around 15,000 pesos. Granted nobody wants to pay $6 dollars for a red bull but it was a very nice club. This guy threw such a stink and I felt so bad for his date that I paid for her drink just to shut him up. Let me know how your dutch dates turn out in Cali.

... in response to Re: Flowers, posted by Calipro on Apr 7, 2003

I never went dutch down there, most dont have any money so its really not possible. However, I see no problem with going dutch if the woman has some money. Why should the guy always pay for everything. You dont have to read more into my post than there is. It was a simple question.

Well, you can say what you want but I had the experience there that guys are always afraid to say no to a woman because they dont want to be see as cheap. Its embarrassing for most guys to not shovel it up at crunch time. Women are far far cheaper than men, they expect a man to pay in every society even if they are loaded. Im sure we'll here anecdotal stories, but I know that in general, and in most cases, I am correct.

Actually, your girl is a perfect example of what we were talking about the last couple days. I remember quite clearly you posting about how your girl started asking you for a car, stereo system, etc. when you got back to the states. Even though she didnt have much time to stay there before you were going to bring her up here. Women simply expect things to be given to them by men and they figure the mere fact that they are with you should suffice as to why. They dont need to worry about questions such as, "what is the most important thing to you?" They can say faithfulness and sincerity because they take the money for granted with American men. Its a given. No matter who they end up with in the states they know for a fact they are upgrading.

I just think its always a good idea to hold back until you discern what the chick is looking for. Sending flowers, buying presents, throwing money around tells her you are loaded and and possible a wimp by how easy she can manipulate a man into giving her things......

I still think there is alot of truth to the well known outlook that nice guys finish last in the end, while the jerks have all the luck with women......to be honest with you, in my dealings with American women, this has always been the case. If you look at the machista playboys in Colombia, they have plenty of women and they dont treat them nice......

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GoodWife / Planet-Love Archives => Threads started in 2003 => Topic started by: Yalg on April 07, 2003, 04:00:00 AM