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I watched the "Killing Pablo" special on the history channel tonight.  Right after it was a special on the drug, rebel, and para-military problems of the country as well as murder and kidnapping. They kept repeating how Colombia was the most dangerous and out of control nation on the planet and how nothing has really changed after Escobars death.  He was replaced by smaller organizations just as ruthless but not flamboyant about it.  I couldnt believe how many people have been killed in the crossfire of all the problems.  It really makes it easy to see why people would not want to live there. Be careful when picking your future wife, thats all I have to say.

The Miss USA contestants were a bunch of hotties this year.  I thought Miss Alabama or Miss Texas should have won, but alot of them were absolutely top notch.  No fatties this year..only tall and beautiful.  Looks like PC went out the window around the country when they picked these girls and they went for the hot ones.  If only they were as willing as the Colombianas to go with older guys we would have it made here.......

... in response to Killing Pablo and Miss USA, posted by Yalg on Mar 25, 2003

I just read online that the winner has a Dominican Father and Puerto Rican mother. Very cute.

... in response to Killing Pablo and Miss USA, posted by Yalg on Mar 25, 2003

[This message has been edited by wizard]

To heck with the pageant, I caught a few of girls on the Miss USA version of Fear Factor, just prior to the Miss USA contest... Nothing like a bunch a gorgeous women swimming in fish brine and choking down raw squid... ROFL...

The "Killing Pablo" show on the History Channel was very informative, for me anyway... I knew a little of his rein of terror, but the show shed some new light on the depth and breadth of his influence... Pretty scary... Now we know where the FARC learned their tactics...

After the "Killing Pablo" episode, the was another 1 hour show on "Organized Crime in the World"... This show also covered the Cartels in Colombia with a little different viewpoint than first show...

If they rebroadcast these shows, I highly recommend seeing them...

... in response to Re: Killing Pablo and Miss USA, posted by wizard on Mar 25, 2003

[This message has been edited by DallasSteve2]

It will be re-broadcast Friday and Saturday, not Sunday as I originally posted.  I'm not sure of the exact times.  I'm going to watch it with my wife and translate for her.  She missed it the first time because she was watching a telenovela and La Isla de Tentacion.

Steve

... in response to Re: Re: Killing Pablo and Miss USA, posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 26, 2003

Nothing comes between a colombiana and her telenovela!

... in response to Killing Pablo and Miss USA, posted by Yalg on Mar 25, 2003

Miss Texas looked great but was probably a bit too "Red Blooded American" in her answers for the judges.

... in response to Killing Pablo and Miss USA, posted by Yalg on Mar 25, 2003

Yalag,
You must have the Miss USA pagent confused with the Miss America pagent.   The Miss USA are always good looking contestants, but the Miss America pagent has a much broader judging criteria.

... in response to Killing Pablo and Miss USA, posted by Yalg on Mar 25, 2003

I watched the  "killing Pablo " special also.I have not yet watched the follow up story on the state of the situation now,but I doubt it is anything as bad as it was when Pablo was killing people.I knew some of the story but didn't really realise how brutal he was and the extent of people killed.It seems it was a war with the government they might have lost without US help.Even the  "Los Pepes " were instrumental in getting him and seem a necessary evil.Carlos Castana admits his role.Its similar to AUC.If the government can't handle it we will,and we will play by the same brutal rules,not being limited by legal restraints.
One thing I expected to see but didn't was any of the "Robin
hood" reputation of Pablo.If my wife is any example of Colombian thought about Pablo,there is another side to the story.He is viewed fondly by some as helping  "the people"
and they tend to excuse what he has done,thinking the people who were killed,even government officials,were part of the business.Along this line the impression I get is the "ordinary " Colombian is not too worried about the drug lords,even viewing them somewhat possitively.I think its far down the list of their concerns.Urban crime against
normal people and the FARC if they leave town are bigger concerns.Its not a major factor at all in why Colombianas want to leave,I don't think,except how it indirectly affects the economy.The impression I have from my wife is she is not much worried about crime in Colombia even,except as it might affect her family.Burglers broke in to their business and stole things,issues like that.
Colombianas want to leave because they have little opportunity to find a good husband or have a good life if they do.They see the US,rightly so,as a huge economic opportunity.I think they would love to have the benefits and still live in Colombia.My wife would live there again in a flash.She loves  "her country".I think it will still be that to her if she lives here 50 more years.Ideally I think a Colombiana would like to be able to work here and travel or live part time in Colombia.
I know my wife talks about the woman who owns the house her parents live in and other properties but lives mostly in Florida.Seems like someone she would like to emulate.Of course all of this would not be possible without the first step,coming here.We are viewed as a great resource to them I think.Even a woman who really loves her husband has her eye on the benefits.I don't know what the female word for  "Don" is,but I think they have their eyes on it.
Its a big step up from a limited existance,and they want to
help their family also.It might be one of the only ways a
Colombiana not from a rich family can "make it big."

Pete

... in response to Colombianas don't seem  worried about dr..., posted by Pete E on Mar 25, 2003

I would echo much of your comments with one exception.  None of the Colombians that I know personally, now living here in the US, want to return permanently.  The kidnapping scenario, impacting the middle and upper classes, along with the economy, is a major problem.  Sure the FARC make it impossible to enjoy the countryside also.  One girlfriend of my wife's - having been impacted by the kidnapping of some of her relatives - will not return to Colombia period.  Her cousin was abducted from the "safety" of her upscale home in Cali.  Seems like most everyone has been impacted to some extent by the kidnappings.

I personally love to visit Colombia - so much that we purchased a condo in Cali last year.  However, some of the stories are gruesome - and I'm extremely cautious while there. One acquintance had his brother kidnapped - they didn't pay (couldn't) - the brother was killed, the kidnappers then tried to extort them for burial fees.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Uribe's tactics will prove beneficial.  My wife likes to visit too, but gave me a flat out NO when the topic of living there was discussed.  Still, I'm going forward with obtaining residency status and eventual citizenship for the heck of it.

... in response to Re: Colombianas don't seem  worried abou..., posted by cancunhound on Mar 25, 2003

My wife would live in Cali again in a heartbeat.I have considered living there but thought better of it.I would be worried about crime and kidnapping also.What I have observed is upper class or people with some money have a whole different point of view than more middle class people.They are much more worried about crime because they are more likely to be targets.The more typical Cali resident doesn't worry too much about that.He has little to steal or extort so he is only a target for more petty crime.
My nephew is married to an upper class lady from Tolima.She is very scared going to Colombia and will not take her daughter.My wife thinks she exagerates.I think it is two different experiences.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Colombianas don't seem  worried ..., posted by Pete E on Mar 25, 2003

These are very good points. I have seen the same trend in
Cali. Yet, it does not take alot to be known as "rich".
I have a relative with a house in Cali, and a country house
(finca) outside Cali. That cost him alot of money and half
his tongue. I dont' know if was the FARC, or a local thug,
but it is uncanny how criminals in Colombia know exactly how much a person has materially.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Colombianas don't seem  worr..., posted by Celt on Mar 26, 2003

I have heard that "leaks" in personal banking information are not that uncommon.  As seen in the "killing pablo" documentary, extortion to get that sort of info is very possible.
And don't think you're immune as a visitor - as I was told by an acquaintence in Cali.  That scene in Arnold's movie where the FARC has the cell phone and receives his passport info in a remote location is not far fetched - just think how many times you show your passport to various people/agencies from the time you take off in the US and exit the airport in Colombia - kind of spooky!

... in response to Re: How criminals know materiality, posted by cancunhound on Mar 26, 2003

that every time you use your banco card in Colombia that you HAVE to provide you Passport Number is an open invitation to anyone in the scam... Just watch your six...
Keep a low profile and mind your own business...

... in response to Re: How criminals know materiality, posted by cancunhound on Mar 26, 2003

I have heard about banking information being sold to the
FARC. I would think hotel clerks would be another great
source of bought information, especially in the interna-
tional ones. When I was in Armenia, at the Parque de
Cafe, I was a sitting duck. The driver in the local bus
knew he had a foreign passenger. The amusement park workers
all knew, and on the trip back to Cali on the bus, it
stopped near Buga for about 90 minutes. That was a trip I
took in ignorance, but will not do again.

... in response to Killing Pablo and Miss USA, posted by Yalg on Mar 25, 2003

I also saw Killing Pablo last night on the History Channel.  I enjoyed it a lot.  It was not the same program as PBS showed, but they were similar.  This one had more interviews with the people involved.

There was about 10 minutes worth of interviews with Carlos Castano, head of the AUC.  That was particularly fascinating to me.  A lot of people say he's bad, but I've got to admire a man whose father gets killed by the b*st*rd FARC and he builds his own army to fight back.  He seems very modest and fair.  He worked for Pablo at first, but them helped them kill him when he saw that he was a maniac.

Colombia's got some good men among the bad ones.  Hugo Martinez is a true hero.  What a guy!  I read in the book that Pablo offered him millions to not find him, but Hugo kept after him and risked his life and his family.   He was probably the only man Pablo tried to kill that he could never get.  Must've been the hand of God protecting him (plus the Colombian army).

The show will be re-broadcast several times this week including Sunday evening, I think.  I'm going to watch it again.

Steve

... in response to Re: Killing Pablo , posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 25, 2003

In "Killing Pablo" there are echoes of "Killing Castro".
The money came from the Cali mafia, the muscle came from
Los Pepes ( CastaNo and all those who wanted revenge ),
the intelligence came from the CIA and the DEA and the
Colombian security forces, and the quarterbacking came
from the Colombian army.

It is interesting to contrast Mark Bowden's story,
where CastaNo is hardly mentioned, with his own, where
the spotlight is placed upon Los Pepes themselves, and
not the high-level govt. players.