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I have been communicating with this one chica from Cali for a few months now. I met her in person when I was in Cali and thought everything was fine. We would exchange emails, phone calls and chat about everything. Lately however she began explaining how she has little work in Cali and doent have any money. She also said that she was declared a bankrupt by a bank (she doent have a bank account though and never did). And she is asking to help her out. Although quite fluidly but she explains that she needs $500 to cover her up. It is my beleif that if a girl asks for money I move on to another one. But in this case we have had such a good communication and I feel that she is very genuine about what she says when we chat. So now I am in a quandary and decided to ask what other ppl think about that.

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

If your intent is marriage this could be a good litmus test.  Times are tough in Cali - $500 is alot.  What is the $500 specifically for?  If you do choose to send money, set up a new bank account in the US and mail her the ATM card.  You can then monitor her usage and establish limits.  My guess is the "bankrupt" thing is just a twist in the spanish/english translation?

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

Kit - it seems to me there is some type of miscommunication going on.  How can she be declared a "bankrupt by a bank" that she has never had an account with? This makes about zero sense.  Banks operate in Cali much the same way as here.  She must have had or has an account there.  Something is not adding up here.  How well are you two communicating?  In English or Spanish?

This seems highly suspicious to me.

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

(quote from your other post below): I consider us as friends with possibility of a long term relationship, no more. She, on the other hand, always talks of us as a couple, plans for how many children we need to have etc.

Well, which is it? Either one of you is dragging his feet or the other is moving way too fast. Looks like you two need to get on the same wavelength about a few important issues. Money? I send my lady money, lots of guys do (notice all the post about the best/cheapest/safest ways to send it). However in my case we're at the waiting for the K-1 approval stage, which is obvisouly not YOUR situation. In your situation, I would say 'Yes' IF you intend to marry her (and of course you're sure she intends the same) and 'No' if either of you is still 'just shopping around'.---hmmmm. Could this be her way of saying 'fish or cut bait'?

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

I don't know enough about your relationship with this women to tell you if this is a red flag or not. But as a rule of thumb if you are not in an intimate relationship with this women I wouldn't send her a dime. If you are in an intimate relationship with this women and you planned on keeping her around you should have been helping her out all along with at least $150 a month.

In any case if you are still interested in her just give her an excuse why you can't send her the money now. Don't just blow her off. If she has been keeping in touch with you for months and you haven't given her anything she probably really likes you and she is just down on her luck right now.

... in response to Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Calipro on Mar 28, 2003

Calipro have you been follwing the exchange rate? Your $150 a month is more than generous. That's about $435.000 or a hundred thousand pesos over the salario minimo which is what the vast majority of the girls with jobs here earn and live on perfectly well. While my wife was still my novia she earned the minimum salery and I suplimented that with $200.000 a month to make life easier and so she wouldn't take on additional part time jobs (to pay for all those jars and tubes of goo for beautifull hair and skin I guess) which gobbled up all her time.

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

Kit,

  I got a suggestion for you. Why dont you refuse to give her anything and see if she is still interested in you. If she is still communicating with you might decide later on to give her $50 a month to help her out a little. Also have you considered putting her into english school ? Ben

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

Tell her sure but you have to "fiar".

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

DO IT, GIVE HER 5 CENTS !!!!!!!! LOL !!!!!!!

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

Kit,

You'll do what you feel is correct, but this is clearly not a good sign.  I'd put some serious weight on what the vets on this board are telling you.  Remember, the Papaya Rule is a way of life for most people in Colombia.  Does that mean they're bad people, definitely not, but their culture is accepting of things that we are not and the Papya rule is definitely one of those things.  If you believe her, see if you can pay the fees directly to ?, if you can't, that ought to be a good sign to move on.

Good Luck.

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

Your line "if a girl asks for money I move on to another one" covers this situation exactly.

... in response to Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by lswote on Mar 28, 2003

I would adhere to this rule with any new girl. This one appeared to be very genuine. After we first met she immediately invited me home to get to know her family. We went to places and then after I left Cali we communicated quite a bit. I know she is counting every peso, but managed to call me to thank me for the flowers I sent and one more occasion. In other words I dont feel that she has been working me to eventually get out of debt.

I consider us as friends with possibility of a long term relationship, no more. She, on the other hand, always talks of us as a couple, plans for how many children we need to have etc.

So now I when I thought I had all the bases covered I got this situation that makes me wonder if I know her as good as I thought.

... in response to Re: Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign....., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

i wouldnt do it. maybe if you two were engaged to be married, or were boyfrind -girlfrienf for a long time, and i dont mean 6 months. i wonder how many other "friends" she has on the side, asking for a few hundred dollars. any self respecting girl wouldnt ask for money.

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

If a chick asks for money, get out......its a red flag and you dont need to go down this road.  Maybe there is a 1 in a 1000 chance she is legit but it is always a bad sign...How far did your relations go?  Are you just friends or do you have an understanding she is yours?  Either way, never send money or help out until you have a solid commitment such as engagement or plan to marry..even then I would be hesitant because desperate chicas will play a game such as this until the bitter end.  

I know of two guys who met girls in Cali and they pretended to be engaged to these guys and then suddenly began asking for money.  The idiots started sending it in monthly and then when it was time for serious matters to get started they dumped them......Believe me when I tell you that some of the girls there are playing 5, 6, or ore guys at a time with ongoing scams.  Each time a tour comes to town they hook up and start the process over again. They dont have much conscience about it because they want the money and dont give a rip about you.  It was tried on me but being the natural cynic I never succumbed.  I dont trust easily and I need to see the goods before I would ever give up cash.  

Not saying your chick is doing this, but just a word of warning.  I have seen it before and it happens all the time and the guys are clueless, blinded by the hot promises of future goodies.....Be careful...

... in response to Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Yalg on Mar 28, 2003

D

... in response to Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Yalg on Mar 28, 2003

We do not know enough to make the judgement.

How far Kit was into the relationship etc..

I can tell you this now, from seeing relatiobships over 5 year period, you are at some time going to have to give your girl money.

Kits problem can be solved one way or the other, by a visit from Kit to his girl, at which time he pays all the debts owed in person.  If the girl rejects this idea, move on.

If she lets you pay off 2-3 specific debts while you are there, then you are OK, keep going on the relationship.

... in response to Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Yalg on Mar 28, 2003

You know sometimes it makes me wonder if they (chicas) even understand that the money is not that easy to come by. To spend so much you need to earn even more. I have a feeling that she thinks of me as some kind of a millionare simply because of my geopolitical location. Although $500 is not going to break a bank for me, I dont want to give her an impression that $500 is no big deal for me. What is everyone else's experience with Colombianas and money? Do you guys feel that the girls in Cali seem to be detached from financial realities of NA?

... in response to Re: Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign....., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

I think you need to go to Cali and investigate the situation deeper. ( pun intended ). Think about how much it costs to date an american girl. I think the question here is --what is your relationship?. You need to clarify it with her and help her (if you care) or release her if you don't. I think the fishing/ cutting bait is a perfect analogy. When I had a novia I sent money every month. If you care about her why would you let her be broke and desperate over a few bucks every month. jim c

... in response to Re: Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign....., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

I don't know what to tell you guys about the money thing except my take on the situtation. I have never dated a women older than 24 or one that had a decent job. 90% of every thing these women owned, I would guess was purchased by other people.

If I have a sexual relationship with a women in Cali and I want to continue the relationship with her, I will always send her $150 or so dollars a month. It has been my experience that if you don't, they just will think you are playing with them and using them. If you are not in an intimate relationship, you really are not obligated to help them out in any way just say no in a very nice way.

If you don't give them anything and they still keep coming around to get nailed every time you are in town that really is true love but that usually doesn't happen the first couple of times you meet them.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I wonder if this is a bad si..., posted by Calipro on Mar 28, 2003

..."get nailed" and "true love" sound awkward in the same sentence!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if this is a ba..., posted by DavidMN on Mar 29, 2003

If he nails her and sends no money, he's using her. If he pays, they're using each other.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if this is ..., posted by Red Clay on Mar 29, 2003

That's what relationships are all about. It has to be a two way street.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I wonder if this is a bad si..., posted by Calipro on Mar 28, 2003

LOL

... in response to Re: Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign....., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

"Do you guys feel that the girls in Cali seem to be detached from financial realities of NA? "

I wouldn't say they are detached from reality, they are very much in touch with the realities of their economics and that our economy is MUCH better than their's... The difference is character and economics of scale... We have to work just as hard to earn our money, but due to the strength of the USD, our money goes much further in LA... I checked the exchange rate last night and it's @ 3025 Pesos to the Dollar... The Colombian Peso has devalued by almost 30% in the last year alone...

The character issue is more a factor and what Yalg eluded to, as to girls "working" norte americanos for money... My girl in Bogota was working 70 hours a week and going to school 5 nights a week when I met her... Plus she was supporting her mother... I made her cut back on her hours at work because she was simply exhausted... But she never asked me for a dime... I suppliment her income now so she doesn't have to kill herself to support her mother...

Something smells a little fishy about your girl's story too... You picked up on it... How can a bank say she is bankrupt if she never had an account??? Maybe she went in to open an account or to try to get a loan... Dunno... Plus, $500 USD in Cali is like 2 months salary for many working class folks... That's alot of money for some folks there...

I'd say that there are more than a few red flags in this story... There's a few bells clanging too... Sorry...

my 2 cents...

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I wonder if this is a bad si..., posted by wizard on Mar 28, 2003

I am with you Mudd and Wizard 100%.  Do not send this lady any $, period!  What on earth for if there is nothing more planned than a long term friendship in your future.  She is playing ya.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I wonder if this is a bad si..., posted by wizard on Mar 28, 2003

For someone without credit or a bank account, $500 is ridiculous. Run now, and run fast! A sincere girl would not ask you for money, you are being played.

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

Perhaps some of that  "good communication" was setting you up for a money request.
From what you say this is just a girl you have been talking to,not a fiance.She might even be a OK person but I think you can be assured that possible benefits from you was part of her interest.You going to give $500 to a girl you don't
have a relationship with? I have done some things like that.I  "lent " money to a Colombiano I know 2 or 3 times.I knew going in it was a gift,no way he could ever pay me back.He did help me alot in Colombia and I like the guy.The last time he hit me up I told my wife about it.She said she had had a dream that night his baby was hungry.I sent him $500.Do I think it was stupid or good hearted? A little bit of both.I have done things like his in my life quite a few times.I guess I think it was stupid in a way but don't regret it.I know it was very important to him,more so than to me.Money comes and goes in my life in unusual ways.Sometimes when I get in a bind this money just drops in my lap.Well almost,I get a phone call and a quick easy deal.I'm getting a five figure check today from such a deal.I know thats not logical.
In the case of a girl who could become a relationship,even more care might need to be taken.You could get more emotionally involved and this could be the start of more money requests,perhaps proffesions of love included.Be carefull it doesn't get out of hand.Watch out for ulterior motives.At least check out the story a little.

Pete

... in response to I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by Kit on Mar 28, 2003

Ask if you can pay direct for the things she need the money for.

Or tried, in a subtle way, to get proof or receipt of the items purchased.

... in response to Re: I wonder if this is a bad sign..., posted by bogota vet on Mar 28, 2003

I dont know how a bank in Colombia can declare her a bankrupt if she never had an account let alone credit line. Also the sum in question appears to be too high for her income level. Does anyone know how a person in Colombia can become a bankrupt without ever dealing with the bank?