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Never forget that even though Pablo was killed, his legacy lives on in the daily lives of Colombians.  He was replaced by smaller, but just as ruthless, organizations that have just as deeply penetrated the Colombian political structure.  Payoffs and bribes are the order of the day, and probably always will be because the people accept it and have no real will to defeat it.  The proof of these words is that nothing has really changed there since all this started decades ago. The Colombian military is incompetent and unbable to defeat the FARC and the right wing paramilitaries will never go away.  The USA cant get involved because we are busy elsewhere and have other goals considered more important than defeating the war on drugs.  

Conclusion.....Colombia is a haven for wives because the country is in chaos and the lives of the individual colombianas will most likey never change.   This is truly sad, however it is the truth and each and every man must realize this when making the tough decisions.  Imagine if Colombia was a truly prosperous country and had no civil war, mass murders, and rampant kidnappings..how many ladies would want to leave if these things did not occur.......

Just something to remember when you are deciding what country to search for you future "love" and what her motivations are.......take it for what its worth, just a note to say how I feel and my opinion.......its not meant impune anyones marriage or current relationship...all things being equal nobody can truly know anothers motivations....

Unfortunately, there's something about Colombia that makes them prone to unending violence. The current "war" dates back to La Violencia so for 55 years they haven't been able to figure things out. Maybe the drug profits of the last two decades have prolonged the conflict, but that still leaves three plus decades of senseless violence.

I'm trying to learn about the hate that drives "civilized" people to use chainsaws and machetes on each other, gouge out eyes, kill pregnant women and rip out unborn children. And I read a story a couple of days ago about the AUC beheading someone and then playing soccer. This happened in 1997, not medieval times. Remember when half a million people were butchered in Rwanda?  Some editorials said "it's Africa,they're a bunch of tribal savages."  I guess they forgot about the Bogotaza, Chile, most of Central America, Peru's Shining Path, and Argentina's use of genital torture and pushing people out of airplanes.

So you're right, the place is a mess and it's hard to have long term hope. Some people say Colombia is unique because of the way they were exploited by the Spanish, because of an ancient resentment in taxes due the Viceroy in Bogotá (who provided no services), or because the three ranges of the Andes make it ungovernable (out of site, out of mind). But with modern transportation and communciations those don't seem like valid excuses anymore. And some of their neighbors have similar geographies and histories but lack the perpetual violence.

Its true that women from other countries want to find foreign husbands.  Women from every country are on the websites looking for foreign guys, but thats not the point. The point is that for every individual woman from other LA countries looking, I would bet there are 100's of colombianas......That is not normal.  

Anyway, it doesnt matter what I think.  It only matters what each guy is comfortable with when going through this process.  As for me, I have too much doubt in my mind and I feel that there would always be a question in my mind if I continued to search there.  I just cant bring myself to do it anymore.  There are guys who can actually pick up women from there on the internet and get them to travel here sight unseen if they have a tourist visa.  I know because I did it.  Was a big mistake and not a good idea if anyone is trying it for themselves...

I think Ecuador would have to have the second highest response rate to our advertisements after Colombia.

The one thing I'd like to point out is that no matter what country a man picks, it's invariably one with a much poorer economy than the US.  You don't see many men going to countries with first world economies to look for a wife.  There's not much incentive for any women to leave there and without incentive, few people are willing to marry someone from another country and immigrate.

I see far, far more marriages end for reasons other than the woman using the man for a green card.  In almost all of the cases I've heard about, the woman has returned to her country after divorce and in the majority of cases, it was voluntarily.

I think men would be better off worrying about making bad choices based on an almost complete focus on looks rather than on character.  In all the countries we discuss here the woman is most likely bettering her economic situation by immigrating here.  In the case of Colombia, they also gain a more secure environment where they don't have to worry about political instability and guerilla warfare. That probably makes them more willing to consider the idea of marrying outside their country than almost all the other Latin countries.

Men should pick whatever country(ies) they prefer and concentrate on making a good choice for long term success rather than analyze the motives of the ladies to death. From what I've seen over the last seven years, the main problem is a focus on looks over character.

I think that her inability to get better job that will get her a better pay is related to her education. Has she gotten a degree here? Is her English good?

The point is that all the countries men commonly go to have ladies with incentive to leave because of the economic disparity with the US.  I certainly wouldn't rule out Colombia for fear that the ladies are more likely to be using a man for immigration.

That said, if I were currently in the search, I'd be looking in Ecuador.  I'd pick that country because there's lots of interested ladies and little competition from other gringos.  I wouldn't worry about their incentive to leave, though I would be careful about making good decisions about who I pursue, just as I did when I found my wife in Colombia about six years ago.  It makes little difference where you go.  It makes LOTS of difference how you go about it and how well you can judge people's character and motivations (including your own).

Men would be better off putting their energy into learning the language of the ladies rather than trying to figure out which country is more likely to have ladies marrying for green cards.

First, people around here get as good as they give... Taking a back-handed swipe at the choices other's make is a very good way to start a flame battle... If you disagree with someone else's point of view, fine... But to make statements that other poster's are in denial and provide annecdotal evidence is in my mind, inflammatory... Are you trying to start some sh!t, or what???

I know a few ex-pats that live in Colombia and would never think of returning to the US... I also know a few US government employees working Colombia that plan on retiring there... Not to mention that many of the poster's here live in Colombia... What's "realistic" for you has little or no bearing on someone else's reality...

Next, just where is your exidence that most "agency" women would prefer to live somewhere else??? My experience is 180 degrees opposite... This was one question I asked every girl I met... Every one said they would prefer to live in their home country... Every one!!! I don't know how much time you've spent in Colombia or the type of girls you met, but your experience is obviously different than mine...

Again, where is your evidence that there are 100s of Colombianas searching for every 1 chica from other LA countries??? Just check out the websites my friend, the evidence is all there... And they don't backup you statement...

Everyone's experience is different... Your painting awful broad strokes based on your opinion... The only thing that p!sses me off is that your stating your opinion as fact...

I regret that you had a bad experience with a latina that came here on a tourist visa, and that you have not had a good experience in Colombia in particular... I hope you find what your searching for, regardless of country... But don't judge everyone else based on your experience...

This post was not meant to "rip you a new one", just to point out that your opinions are just that, your opinions... You need to be careful when painting broad strokes, so you don't get any one you... You started a good thread that had some interesting dialog, let's not let if digress into mud-slinging...

Entiende???

I think I said clearly near the end of my post that what i think doesnt matter.  I thought it was obvious that it was an opinion.  Sorry if you didnt see it that way.  Most of the posts here are opinion becasue it doesnt pay to quote facts or statistics.  I remember one guy who posted here before about the official government statistics of the homicide and kidnapping rate in Colombia and was roundy spanked for his trouble.  Even when you give facts there will be those who make up every excuse in the book to discount it so it doesnt do any good to give any such info.  It really doesnt.  

Anyway, perhaps I was a bit rough in my dialogue but I dont like to beat around the bush.  You should be able to say whatever you want as long as it not complete and utter BS.

What was the joke that was on the "Killing Pablo" documentary about Colombia, "When God created Colombia, he gave it vast beauty, fertile land and a temperate climate. Then he put the most evil race of men on the planet in Colombia to balance out the good"...

The advent of instantaneous communications and a news hungry society fuel the reporting of these events... Of course, with the press putting their own spin on things for good measure...

I stand by my statement that the human race is STILL not that far removed from the trees... Violence is our SOP... Just turn on the TV... Sometimes all you can do is shake your head and sigh...

What's that old movie, "Stop the world, I want to get off"...

Also, I think allot of guys play negatively into the misfortunes many of the women have. Many gringos (allot  who live a meager life) realize that they can meet an unlimited number of beautiful women who are more than willing to meet a foreign man for those very reasons you mention. However, many guys take advantage of the women because they realize that the women will be naive to assume that "the guys come from a better financial situation." But, in reality the guys are nothing but paupers in their home countries. Basically, allot of guys play games because they try to use leverage that they pretend to have. The lady loses out in the short run, but the guy loses out in the long run because he's nothing but a loser anyway. In most cases, the men are just sex tourists that have to fly thousands of miles for meeting beautiful women because they wont have a chance in their own country with women of the same calibre. However, what usually happens is that the decent foreign women catch on to these types of guys, and they avoid these guys altogether. Usually, the decent women either decide to be with one of their own men, or they pick a gringo who is "the real thing." While the game player is left with women who are less appealing, and eyeballing the upper-scale women from afar. I'm sure you've seen this in Brazil while you were there, and if you've been to Colombia, you've probably seen it there.  

I think when sincere guys go to Colombia looking for wives they need to consider all the things you mentioned. I never advocate going on rescue missons, but only search for someone who is going to love you.

As for the Colombian crisis. I really think the way you've described the problem is a classical example of USA unilateral thinking, which becomes USA unilateral politics. The reality is that the USA is the world's largest consumer of Colombia's "illegal exports." America has a serious drug consumption problem, and our dollars fuel much of the narco trafficking. The Colombians aren't forcing us to use drugs. Also, the only way we are going to succefully eliminate drug consumption is if we realize that we have to be responsible by saying NO. Plan Colombia actually begins and ends with our responsibility.
Yes, you are right. Colombia has to clean house, but gringos need to "lay down the pipe" and and "get rid of the weed." Until we can do that, plenty of our dollars are going to go overseas into the nacros' pockets, and no amount of helicopters or USA marines will be enough to solve the problem.

Basically, if you strip away the moral issue, narco trafficking is nothing but a business. If it was legalized, more people would be involved. So, I think the best way to fight it is to better control what businessmen love most...MONEY. This is the reason why I totally support the removal of cash currency worldwide, and move to an electronic form of currency. With a sophisticated system of checks and balances, and technology, all people who use electronic currency would have to be accountable for everthing they buy and sale. But, some people are affraid of that kind of surveillance.

Just my .02

You made the assumption that Colombian women are looking for foreign spouses not out of love, but to have a more stable situation economically and socially. As a consequence, you argued that Colombia will always be a haven for brides because you claim that the country will always be in turmoil. Now, those definitely are assumptions.

I never said anything about average guys. I was talking about sex tourists who pretend to have leverage that they don't really have.

The crux of my response to your post is this, there are women with alterior motives in the search, and there are men with alterior motives in the search. Don't pick on one group, but ignore the other.

Another thing, it is a shame that you make such broad generalizations and assumptions about American women. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with American women (whether they be white, black, latina, asian, etc.), and many make decent partners. My preference is for Latinas, however, because I appreciate their culture and physical beauty.

Aaron

Aaron

Do you believe that?

God Bless You,
Aaron

I have heard all this before, and legalizing it in Germany and Holland didn't get more people to use it.  Why coz the money was taken out of it.  If you are hooked you get a hospital band on your wrist with your addiction labeled on it.  The ambulance will meet you at the railway cars where you and the other losers sleep.  They ask you if you care to get help.  If you say no they give you what you want free.   No one makes money; no one will push it if there is no profit.  It cost money to push drugs, this is advertisement.  The ones using drugs would use it if it was legal or illegal.  Proof of that is crack in my home town is at an all time low price.   Lots of competition the American way LOL.  It is common knowledge that it is available in prisons.  The difference is in Holland and Germany they are not robbing your house or stealing your car.  They have the right to die anyway they like.  If someone is doing drugs and he is caught he looses his job and someone else gets his position, supply and demand.  Probation didn't work; drugs are the underground money for many poor people.  In the old days alcohol was made in bathtubs at home to supplement family income.  Now some grow weeds in the back yard LOL..   All it did was corrupt officials so to this day we don’t trust the Government.    To keep up with the demand of dugs it must be coming in by the tons every day.  That means coz their is money in it Governments are corrupted.  If the impossible were to happen and they could stop all the drugs coming in, ways would be found to make drugs here.  There is no stopping it, you can’t legislate morality.  The first step would be to take the money out of it.  But now it is controlled by the underground, they make the money, and they corrupt our officials.  To change this system will never happen though coz too many people are making a nice profit with the system just the way it is.  They want to keep it that way, which is why the war on drugs is not working and never will work.  It has not worked for years but instead of trying something new they keep on the old fail system. Making drugs illegal does not stop drugs; it turns it to the underground.  
Ten years ago if I spoke my opinion on this I would have been crucified.  Now it is common knowledge of the present system on eliminating illegal drugs is failing.  Under my way if someone in a high paying job position is caught doing drugs I can get his job.
My $0.3c worth on deaf ears.

Which social/ethnic groups would be more exposed to drug addiction?

You cannot make the statement that legalization will lead to less drug related crimes. Did making alcohol legal lead to less DUIs, acoholism, or bringe drinking deaths?

Also, if made legal, are we going to prohibit people under 18 from purchasing it after they become hooked? How are we going to keep it out of the hands of minors?

What about all the drug addicted infants, and infants with disformities and brain abnormalities born to drug addicted parents?

How are we going to treat these drug related illnesses?

Who are going to be the ones to control the production and sale of drugs in the USA? I really don't think our government would like to see drug barrons in south america or asia make such kinds of profits on the ills of our society.

All in all, if you legalize drugs in the USA, all the establishments in the fields of education, medicine, law enforcement, and other health related fields would protest emphatically against it.    

Also, if you think about and try to answer my questions above, you can easily see how legalization would lead to increases in insurance rates for health care and life insurance, let alone more likelihood for more drug related deaths, crimes, and consumption by minors.

Then, consider the poorer communities (poor whites, blacks, etc. etc.) that would be hit the hardest. Instead of a bar on every corner, there would be a legal crack house on every corner. Also, you would probably have the bootleggers who would try to sale drugs cheaper than what they would be on the legalized market. That would lead to more criminal activity.

Then, think how much this kind of system would cost for the public in terms of taxes....mega $$$$$$$.

Your statement of making drugs legal, and you having the opportunity of replacing someone who is caught is totally off base. This is why, if you legalize drugs, then to use drugs would be considered a CIVIL RIGHT. If employers decided to fire employees because of their drug habits (which would be considered a civil right), then that would open up a large pandora's box of discrimination issues related to employee drug consumption. Basically, employers would find it more difficult to fire drug addicts under that kind of system. However, it makes more sense to me that now, under the current system, drug addicts can be fired because of their ILLEGAL habit, and YOU or other qualified people can replace them.

You cannot compare how Germany handles their problem with how we should handle our drug problem because they are a different country with different philosophical, political, and cultural views. Also, they most likely have a different political and social structure that allows people to accept an apathetic attitude towards drug users.

The USA is different. Basically, as we claim that "Christian principles" are a foundation to what we believe in and how we govern, and we claim that we value security, respect, equality, freedom, peace, and opportunity for all citizens; then the legalization of drugs is totally against the principles that this country is founded on.  

This is what I'm talking about. America is a strong nation, but I think the ultra liberal and the ultra conservative attitudes are dangerous because they serve to change the very essence of America. When you think about Colombians, most Colombian USA immigrants are very happy to live in a country that is making a sincere and genuine effort to curtail drug trafficking, and I am too. Decent people who know the evils of drug trafficking and drug use don't want that sh#t around.

Another question: Who is more of a fool? The Colombian trafficker who produces the drug, but does not use it; OR the gringo that uses the drug, but does not produce it (well, sometimes gringos try to produce some drugs so they can have more to use...LOL!!!).

Aaron

The U.S. will not put money into more treatment and prevention of drug problems because that would make too much sense.  Our solution is to fill our jails with people for drug offenses and wage a war that will never be won.  Take a look at alcohol and prohibition. Did that work??

I really don't think our government would like to see drug barrons in south America or Asia make such kinds of profits on the ills of our society.
Guess what?  No more profit, no more barons!  Did you get it yet?

All in all, if you legalize drugs in the USA, all the establishments in the fields of education, medicine, law enforcement, and other health related fields would protest emphatically against it.
Yes, because the ones making the profits will make sure protesters will be funded and motivated.   Imagine the sheriffs not getting all that money for extra helicopters because they are not needed.   All the attorneys will loose billions on drug defense cases.  We will need fewer judges, jails and rehabs, all a big burocrarcy that feeds itself.

I don’t see these people protesting against a totally failed system!  They like it the way it is.  Everyone is happy,
Right now our kids are being lined up to be recruited to do drugs.  The profit margin is so great the will buy a 747 land it in the dessert unload it and just walk away from it.  
Organized crime loves the laws as they are right now.  It guarantees them job security.
The whole criminal justice system and jails like the failed system we have now.
You yourself must like the way it is now.  It lets you spout your hypocrite ways and lets you be politically correct.  But you know in your heart that it doesn’t work.   Allowing drugs to make a profit it the black-market and letting criminals control the drugs is a sure formula for failure.  

We all lose with your attitude; you bought in to it thinking you’re a do gooder.  

Also, if you think about and try to answer my questions above, you can easily see how legalization would lead to increases in insurance rates for health care and life insurance, let alone more likelihood for more drug related deaths, crimes, and consumption by minors.
I tried to explain it to you but I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.  Insurance will go down; you are taking drugs out of criminals.  The only crimes left will be real crimes and not drug related crimes.  No need to steal if the addict gets it free right?   A true addict will always find a way to get the drug he wants.  Don’t get in his way, he will shoot you stab you do whatever it takes to get it.  I say just give it too him and if he doesn’t want treatment let him kill himself with the drug.  He would have anyway only he won’t take you with him.  
With the profit taken out there will be less recruitment, less people using it and less deaths.  Even now users can get bad drugs that can kill them no one is controlling the quality.   So less deaths
Consumption by minors will drop, why?  No profit no recruitment less exposure.   Kids won’t see the dealers as role models with gold chains and expensive cars.  
Then, consider the poorer communities (poor whites, blacks, etc. etc.) that would be hit the hardest. Instead of a bar on every corner, there would be a legal crack house on every corner.
Hey Aaron?  Are you living in the same country as me?  There is a crack house on every corner!  It is door to door drug sales already!   I bet that half your friends know someone who smokes pot or has done crack.  It is easier to get than candy.  It is also getting cheaper, coz lots of competition LOL.
Also, you would probably have the bootleggers who would try to sale drugs cheaper than what they would be on the legalized market. That would lead to more criminal activity.
No, they can’t compete with free drugs, the way Germany does it if you can show you are addicted you are considered a medical problem not a legal one.  You will be given the drug free if you decide not to get treatment.  
Then, think how much this kind of system would cost for the public in terms of taxes....mega $$$$$$$.
Ya Da!!!
The savings for less people hooked will be staggering.   So staggering that the ones who profit from the system now will be out of a job.    So they want to keep things as they are.    
THAT IS WHY WE WILL NOT SEE ANY CHANGE IN OUR LIFE TIME
So don’t worry Aaron nothing will change, everything will stay the way it is for a long time.   But history will prove me right; you are being used so the failed system can continue.  
Your statement of making drugs legal and you having the opportunity of replacing someone who is caught are totally off base. This is why, if you legalize drugs, then to use drugs would be considered a CIVIL RIGHT. If employers decided to fire employees because of their drug habits (which would be considered a civil right), then that would open up a large pandora's box of discrimination issues related to employee drug consumption. Basically, employers would find it more difficult to fire drug addicts under that kind of system. However, it makes more sense to me that now, under the current system, drug addicts can be fired because of their ILLEGAL habit, and YOU or other qualified people can replace them.
So Aaron this means if I consume legal drugs like alcohol I can’t be fired?  If I drive intoxicated I can’t be put in jail?  If I drive a car intoxicated and kill someone I won’t be accused of murder?
All that has to be done is to extend the same laws that apply to alcohol to other drugs.   No big deal.
People are replaced and get fired when they have become alcoholics what’s the difference.
You cannot compare how Germany handles their problem with how we should handle our drug problem because they are a different country with different philosophical, political, and cultural views. Also, they most likely have a different political and social structure that allows people to accept an apathetic attitude towards drug users.
Hey!  If it works we should at least try it rather than do nothing but sit by and see a failed system take our money with little results.
The USA is different. Basically, as we claim that "Christian principles" are a foundation to what we believe in and how we govern, and we claim that we value security, respect, equality, freedom, peace, and opportunity for all citizens; then the legalization of drugs is totally against the principles that this country is founded on.
OH?  So why is alcohol and cigarettes legal then?  What happened to the "Christian principles” I remember the blue laws in the South.  You couldn’t buy a beer in the Supermarket on Sundays.   What was that? I don’t drink beer myself but it pissed me off that I didn’t have that choice.  
Slavery was also a part of "Christian principles” so get of your high horse and get down to reality.   We can do better than "Christian principles".  We can do better than the 10 commandments.  
Check your history Aaron Coca Cola?  Drugs have been a part of history in this country and wasn’t a problem till the [do gooders] like you made it possible to make vast amounts of profit by making drugs illegal.  

You can’t legislate morality!
I have a right to kill myself in any fashion I choose.   Making it illegal won’t change that.   At least my way I won’t take you with me.

This is what I'm talking about. America is a strong nation, but I think the ultra liberal and the ultra conservative attitudes are dangerous because they serve to change the very essence of America. When you think about Colombians, most Colombian USA immigrants are very happy to live in a country that is making a sincere and genuine effort to curtail drug trafficking, and I am too. Decent people who know the evils of drug trafficking and drug use don't want that sh#t around.
This country is not making a sincere and genuine effort to curtail drug trafficking that is my whole point.   If they keep doing what they are doing now nothing will be different 10 years from now.   How sad, all that wasted resources, going nowhere fast.  The stuff will keep coming in by the tons each day while you spout your rhetoric.
Another question: Who is more of a fool? The Colombian trafficker who produces the drug, but does not use it; OR the gringo that uses the drug, but does not produce it (well, sometimes gringos try to produce some drugs so they can have more to use...LOL!!!).
You just answered my question, who is making the profit, who will stop if the profit is gone?  You know the answer.
Aaron You and all of us will pay for this attitude, changes come slowly but they will come.   Maybe in a way it is good, now all criminal elements are focused on the big profits of drugs.   If you take away their source of income they will go back to other crimes.   So this way we keep most of the criminal element busy making lots of money in an easy way.   I would hate to see what would happen if that easy profit was taken away.   We would all have to get double locks on the doors LOL

But, think about these questions.

1.) If I stocked every 7/11, Sheetz gas station, and liquor store with legalized drugs, what would happen to the availability and what would happen to the prices?

Answer: It would be more available and cheaper.

2.) How many people would be more likely to experiment with legalized drugs?

Answer: More will be more likely to experiment with them.

3.) And since crack and heroine are highly addictive substances, how are we going to treat the addicts and their suffering children?

Answer: Well, we would have to hospitalize them, our hopsitals and emergency rooms would be full to the brim, and everyone's health and life insurance rates will increase to cover for these addicts. The rates would probably sky rocket to the degree that no one, unless they're extremely weathly, would be able to afford such kind of insurance. For their children, well they would have to be wards of the state. Then we would have the minors who experiment and become future addicts. Then we also have the infants with drug related illness because of their parents' habits; we would have to treat them. They would be wards of the state. Hell, just about everyone would be a ward of the state...LOL!!!

4.) What about regulations? Do you think crack addicts are going to following regulations that the government places for drug use?

5.) etc.

6.) etc.

7.) etc.

There are so many things that could go wrong with the legalization of drugs in the USA. Now, in other countries, the way they handle it works for them. But, WE are in America which is based on certain principles. What works for other countries just might not work for us.

Now, read this, be angry if you want to be, but that is how it is.

Aaron

Strange that didn't happen in Germany or Holland and they gave thd drugs for free.  Their still doing it.  
I read all of your stuff and thanks for admiting you didn't read mine.  It figures, you do gooders will kill this country yet!

By the way your hypathetical which is totally off the subject show you didn't read what I wrote.

If you would have read what i wrote you would see plainly that the example you chose was totally inapropriate.

The sad part is your ideas are running the programs.

Look at the result!!!!

What a mess, years of any progress down the drain.

Right now drugs availabe to anyone and cheap.

The underworld running the show

Millions of dollars spent with no resuluts

The addicts that can't be cured are going to get you coz they need a fix.

Have nice drug free day

Aaron

I back this up with the fact there are many LA countries that have many, many ladies searching for a foreign partner... Not just Colombia... Having perused many of the MOB websites over the years, there is a good mix of ladies from all LA countries, not just Colombia...

Colombia does have the greatest number of agencies for this pursuit, but does not have the corner on the market... The agencies make the process easier and that's why Colombia gets most of the press, around here anyway...

Just checkout the ads on latineuro... About 9 out of 10 girls say they don't want a man from Brazil, that all the Brazilian men treat them badly... No civil war in Brazil, just economic problems... I hear the same things from women from Colombia...

Sure, latinas search for a better life... Why not with a foreign man who will love / respect them, not cheat, provide a higher standard of living and live in the "promised land" to boot... If I were in their shoes, I'd do the same thing... Things are whackier in Colombian than the other LA countries, but I think the fundamental motivations are still love and not politico...

I'm going to watch the "Killing Pablo" documentary again tonight... I caught it Monday night, but want to watch it again... It was a real eye opener for me... One thing I picked up from the show was the period of Colombian history known only as "La Violencia"... An era of such violence, that it can only be described as "the violence"... Armed insurrection in the streets, mass murders and rampant lawlessness... The show really did not go into much detail concerning this aspect of Colombian history... I may look for a book on Colombian history to read up on it... Generations of violence in Colombia intriques me to understand more on the subject... Maybe gain some enlightenment on the psyche of the latino, which seems to be the basis for these problems... Regardless whether it's motivated by drogas, power, money or sexo... The machista latino...

my 2 cents

First was that tonight I caught the tail end of "Killing Pablo" on the History Channel.  I had read Mark Bowden's book a year or two ago so I was familiar with most of what they had to say.  I said to my wife "hombre mal?" (my Spanish is terrible but I am trying) and she said no, actually the media made things worse than it was and that acually he helped many people too.  While I don't know if I agree with her, it does show that many Colombians don't think he was as bad as he is made out to be.

THe other point I wanted to mention was that my wife regularly talks about the two of us moving back to Bogota in the future, maybe as early as a year from now.  I am open to this for many reasons, though of course I have some concerns as well.  My point being that while my wife seems to like the US, she wants to go home where her family and friends are and while she wanted a gringo who would be faithful to her, she didn't necessarily want the gringo's country.

They need to hire the company that provided services to the INS in California:
1) shred the applications,
2) no more backlogs.

Paty has similar sentiments as your wife....
The Colombians that I have talked to in the past seem to regard Pablo as some type of Robin Hood.

He did do a lot to help the poor people around Atioquia,
Although in terms of percent of his wealth I think it was a very small proportion.

Paty would also like to return to Bogota in the future to live at least part of the time there....apartment prices for a strata 3 or 4 are not unattractive....

Chao,

Dean

First was that tonight I caught the tail end of "Killing Pablo" on the History Channel.  I had read Mark Bowden's book a year or two ago so I was familiar with most of what they had to say.  I said to my wife "hombre mal?" (my Spanish is terrible but I am trying) and she said no, actually the media made things worse than it was and that acually he helped many people too.  While I don't know if I agree with her, it does show that many Colombians don't think he was as bad as he is made out to be.

THe other point I wanted to mention was that my wife regularly talks about the two of us moving back to Bogota in the future, maybe as early as a year from now.  I am open to this for many reasons, though of course I have some concerns as well.  My point being that while my wife seems to like the US, she wants to go home where her family and friends are and while she wanted a gringo who would be faithful to her, she didn't necessarily want the gringo's country.

Good to see that your still posting since you now fall into the "married" column!!! I hope things are going well with Mrs. Z's adjustment to the US... At least you live in an area of the US where her Ingles skills are not a problem...

I talked with Francy at length about the image that the average Colombiano has regarding Pablo Escobar... She said that many Colombians viewed Pablo as a saint, even though they knew he was a narco trafficer... He helped the lower class Colombians with money, built homes, funded schools and was viewed as a "people" type of guy... Now, he may have been using this as a ploy to gain popular support for his political agenda, which was to NOT be extadited to the US... But the point is that he did more for the lower class Colombiano than the government ever did... She knew of his terroristic activities, but still felt he did these things because he was being persecuted by the government... Kinda like Robin Hood... Steal from the rich and give to the poor...

Francy and I have also had similar conversations about living in Colombia... Early on, I told her that I enjoyed Bogota very much and would consider living there, at least part of the time... She was ecstatic... She really has no desire to leave Colombia and would jump at the chance to stay, but she had NO interest in a latino for a life partner... We will maintain a residence in Bogota and spend part of the year there and the rest of the year in the US... In a few years, we will move to Colombia for good... Francy has traveled all over Colombia and we both think that we would like to settle somewhere on the coast, probably Cartagena... We will spend a week there next month...

Things have gotten so crazy in the US over the last 2 decades, I have thought about going "expat" many times... Being able to escape the lunacy of the US is very appealing to me... Not to mention that fact that the USD goes much, much further in LA toward living a good life, as compared to the US...

Buen suerte...

Mark

Brazilian men, Peruvian men, Venezuelan men, Dominican men etc all give colombianos a run for their money, heck Dominican men probably make them look like choirboys;-)

The truth is most Brazilian women are not looking to get out of Brazil, same with venezuela etc. If a Brazilian woman can meet a nice gringo that will move to brazil she would be happier than a pig in slop. If the violence continues the way it has in Colombia,, or returns to the levels of "la violencia", they will all want out.

So, will we ever see the same amount of agencies in brazil or DR etc? I doubt it.

Remember that alot of the violent crimes in Colombia happen outside of the larger cities, where there is little or no police presence... The economic strain is so great on the huddled masses that they resort to crime to support themselves... Not to mention the lack of education, psycological intimidation and that the historic thing to do is to turn to violence in order to survive... Sad but true... IMHO, the larger cities in Colombia are at least as safe as comparable cities in north america, if not safer...

Which came first, the chicken or the egg??? Well, the apple of course... lol...

Heck, most of the Mexicanas/Latinas that are already here tell me the same thing.