Planet-Love.com Searchable Archives

[This message has been edited by bogota vet]

Colombia is such a class society.

I've noticed the when it really gets down to marrying , it appears the Colombian man stays within his social circle.
ie- he will have a hot babe for a mistress, but dare not marry her and present her to his family (mother, etc..)

Born into a lower social circle, I wonder how many times Colombian women actually enter into another circle.

And even more extreme in Colombia, a women would never marry down.

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

I've been married to Paty for about 2 years now.....

I marvel every day about her determination and bravery in coming here.

I am thankful everyday that she decided to marry me.

I have watched how hard she has worked trying to absorb a new language, a new society and a new way of life....

This has not been easy and has required and still requires much patience and understanding on both our parts.

I am very thankful that I did not consider class strata when I asked Paty to marry me.

I personally find it much easier to respect a person based on their efforts, ideals and aspirations rather than their birth / family status.

Perhaps we should all be thankful and humble that we have options in finding a loving, attractive wife rather than creating a new set of class / social barriers to replace the ones that we are escaping from here in the US.

... in response to My thoughts, posted by Dean on Mar 1, 2003

MAN, I totally agree with you........RIGHT ON ........

... in response to My thoughts, posted by Dean on Mar 1, 2003

Dean,
Paty is the kind of lady guys here could hope to get.It would be a real shame to miss a woman like that out of some stupid class discrimination.Some guys in her home country probably did just that.I don't know about there but here such a good woman is hard to find.
You not only pointed out the stupidity of class distinctions but made a great case for choosing a latina for a wife.
Congratualations.You did extemely well and you are wise  enough to know it.

Pete

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

I know nothing about Colombian social classes and I really could care less about rigid societal stratification, but it does concern me that any woman I meet might be acutely aware of this in her country.  In the U.S., for instance, I don't see this level of class consciousness except among the upper crust, primarily old money families back east and the nouveau riche who want to be like them.  I do know that I could never date or have a relationship with a woman who is unsophisticated and uneducated or with a limited world view, mainly because I elevated myself from the white trash swamp through education and would have little in common with someone for whom a night out at Denny's is haute cuisine.

That said, I am uncomfortable trying to secure a relationship with a woman who might be a maid or a factory worker.  This is not elitism or snobbery talking, it is simple practicality, from my viewpoint.  It's going to be hard enough trying to communicate with someone due to language barriers, not to mention growing up in different countries and cultures, so adding in the mix the divergent levels of education may make a difficult situation impossible.  

I'll give you an example or two:  I have tried to date welfare mothers, barflies, or other women with no aspirations or abilities to achieve more than what they have been handed by bad luck and bad choices.  I can't hold a conversation with these women even if they're native English speakers.  Maybe the maid or factory worker will want to aspire to more than just accepting her lot in life, will want to learn and develop intellectually, so it is possible these kinds of relationships may work over time.  I'm just skittish stepping into one right from the beginning knowing how hard it is, and how quickly tiresome it becomes, to maintain one right here in California.  I mean, physical attraction only goes a short distance; over time, the partners need common interests, common goals, at least enough in common to have conversations that consist of more than "Oont, grunt, pass the mashed potatoes...ook.."

I have heard from several women in Barranquilla recently and most of them are of uncertain background.  I personally don't care where they come from as long as they're sincere, sweet and loving, keeping in mind what I pointed out above.  The number one gal so far is attractive, early 30s, was educated as an attorney, has two businesses, and speaks pretty good English.   Are these the reasons I'm attracted to her?  No.  She is nice, she is attentive (so far), she has good personal qualities and is easy to talk to.  But I'll bet some might say, based on this thread, that she comes from a higher social caste in Colombia than other women, merely because of her education and economic situation.  This may or may not be true, I just know I like the person and not the package.

Two weekends ago I went out with a woman who didn't even know what a caper was; she asked me what chicken piccata was and I was trying to explain it to her.  Very frustrating and definitely no second date.  I once took a young woman to a French restaurant and she said, verbatim:  "Is there anything on this menu I might like?  I'm a meat and potatoes kind of gal."  So she ended up having Steak Diane and pomme frites.  We never had another date after that, and she was very attractive.   All I'm trying to point out is we each must be satisfied with the person we end up marrying or we may end up doing it again and again until we get it right.  Better to know what you want and to seek it out rather than just fall for a pretty face and find out there is a dowdy airhead behind the mask.

JG

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by jumgimbo on Feb 28, 2003

bravo!

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by jumgimbo on Feb 28, 2003

.. yes, class counts for some of us, but it isn't the only parameter in the equation. For others, a beautiful airhead wife totally lacking in social skills may be just the ticket.

Jeff S.

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

Because the class is so strong in Colombia the girls have only the pool of men in their class.
A Colombia female wouldn't dare marry down.

The young well to do Colombian guys have it made, they have little competition.

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 28, 2003

Yes. Any Colombian man with a good job has his pick of women.

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

I have family in Cali. They are strata 6 social class. In Colombia your family name and social class are very important. They told me that no Man from strata 5-6 will date a women below that level and it is even inapropriate to be seen with a woman below your social class level. I dated several woman from lower social stratas. Even the men that are married that have affairs have affairs with women of similar social class. My cousin invited us to various social functions (Club Colombia and VIP Miltary Ceremonies etc.)the lower social strata women were very uncomfortable at these places and it caused me a lot of problems. Since I want to be able to socialize with my cousins family in Cali when I am married with my wife I am stuck dating 5-6 starta women.

I do not understand you guys that date lower social class women that work as maids and such and have little formal education. How much do you have in common with them?

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by elcolombiano on Feb 28, 2003

Historically I think spanish men married indian women and that got the modern population going.So there was a huge class gap,somewhat worldly european and peasant girl.I don't think too many of the early europeans brought their wives with them.That might have happened later.
But these new mixed blood marriages resulted in people who wanted to be above the indian population,so a class system develops.I THINK ALL CLASS SYSTEMS HAVE AT THEIR ROOT A HUGE INSECURITY TRYING TO SHEILD ITSELF BY PRETENDING TO BE BETTER THAN OTHERS.Fortunately we have little of that in the US.
That said however people do fall in to these classes and are limited by them.Isabelle Allede,Chilean novelist, tells of meeting her husband Willie,a San Francisco lawyer who was an orphan,worked from a small child selling newspapers and put himself through law school,a trully self made man.She admires him for it but said in Chile there would have been no way that was possible.That stinks.And that kind of thinking makes me wonder if maybe FARC doesn't have a grievance or two.Allende talks about her grandfather after the family fell on hard times but he had to hide any sign of poverty to maintain the image of the family to retain their social class.What a bunch of nonsense.A free society where talent and hard work is rewarded will kick their butt any time.
OK,but we do have lower class people,who work lower level jobs.That doesn't mean they are stupid,but it probably does mean they have limited experience and are not sophisticated about much and might not make an interesting mate.But,one step up from that we have middle or lower middle class families who struggle to get by but the kids go to school and can be very intelligent.My wife is one of the most intelligent women I have ever known.She has friends who are doctors and lawyers and dentists(from here) and she holds her own very well.Actually she is the momma and den mother for the Colombianas around here,including the proffesionals.
So lower middle class up it depends on the person,and its possible even lower class women have managed to get educated and worldly.
I think I mentioned before my ex girl friend with the masters in pshycology,the dumbest woman I have ever known.She had a sub 100 I Q for sure.She was told she would never graduate from College but they didn't consider her determination.Also,she picked an easy major.Sorry Aaron,but this chick would have never ever made it through one semester in Engineering.She had another advantage.She was so dumb she didn't know she was dumb,so it didn't hold her back confidence wise.She came from a wealthy family.Not upper class but upper middle.
Where was I going?First the upper class we will not meet.The lower class will probably not be interesting enough for us,but there is a huge area in between where most of these girls come from.
So really its finding a girl that meets your requirements.Given we are not dealing with the top of the top or the bottom of the bottom(probably not),individual difference are more important than class issues.
Off the soap box.I hate class issues.Individual achievement I have great respect for.I remember watching movies as a kid of old england,kings and queens,off with their head.My thought was why don't they just kill them?(the kings).
I can understand the type of feelings a communist rebel with FARC might have.The problem is their solution is no solution(as in Cuba).And they are willing to be a terrorist and kill people to try and get it.

Pete

... in response to history,class and intelligence , posted by Pete E on Feb 28, 2003

I used to say that William F Buckley was a walking talking argument for a 100% inheiritance tax.But I have actually grown to like the guy,even if he is out of it on some things.And Gore Vidal,relative of Jackie Kennedy who puts down the Kennedy's as morons.He is smart.I will give him that.He is also so far out of it in judgement as to be borderline crazy.Totaly stuck on himself.
Some of you may remember these 2 guys were thrown together as political analists at a presidential convention about 1984.The had a huge pissing contest right on the air and for years wrote letters putting the other down.Egomania.Buckley won im my opinion for coming off as less crazy.
Reminds me of 2 guys I knew who were both pretty off the wall.They both wound up in my office one time back when I had my car business.I told my son this will be interesting to see who out crazies the other.Well one guy won and the other guy was just sort of looking at him shaking his head,like I usually did with him.

Pete

... in response to American snobs, posted by Pete E on Feb 28, 2003

Talking about stuff like this on a Latin board is merely mental masturbation.

You are truly addicted to this thing....unbelievable.

... in response to Good Ole "Political Pete", posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

Mike,
I admit I  waste too much time here and I get too political.I guess its just a hobby or something to do."Mental masturbation" could be applied to about every thing but actual activity so maybe some truth in that also. I should spend less effort here and more on issues in my life,there is something important I should be doing right now.
And you are here because?

Pete

... in response to Re: Good Ole "Political Pete", posted by Pete E on Mar 3, 2003

Well, I posted below, as you have seen.

I guess part of the reason I chime in here from time to time, is....number 1, because I have time given that I am single and 2, I guess I have enjoyed injecting a dose of reality onto this board lest guys like you, who are here to try to seek approval/validation of what they have done, continue to look through rose-colored glasses.

And notice Pete, I'm not on here a fraction of what I used to be, not by a mile  

Serious question...how much time do you think you spend per day/week in front of this board???  Come on Pete, be honest.

... in response to uhhhhh, posted by JunFanDallas on Mar 4, 2003

Mike,
Yes,I know you don't spend the time here you used to.
How much time do I spend?Thats a little hard to say because I work on my computer alot then check in on whats happening on the board.But too much.
If nothing much is being said I might spend 30 miniutes a day.If I get really involved as I did  2 weeks or so ago maybe 2 or 3 hours.I am a realtor but don't work real hard at it.I have some techniques to get business that don't require much time.Knocking on doors and cold calls I never do.Cold callers should be shot.When I get busy in some deals it takes more time.I'm semi busy right now.2weeks ago not at all.I have a pension and I guess you could say I'm semi retired.But there is a list of things I should be doing.If its hot I'II get it done.
I do check my E-mails first every day then whats happening with the board.At night my wife parks herself in front of her novelas and if I get bored with TV I will check in here.
Its not as bad as people who watch 6 hours of TV a day.I mostly watch fox news and talk shows,maybe 2 hours a day.
So yah,its a hobby sort off.Sort of wasting time like alot of things I could do.But its an interest of mine.You needs some interests.And I have somthing in common with alot of guys.Its sort of on line commraderie.

Pete

... in response to Re: uhhhhh, posted by Pete E on Mar 4, 2003

Attaboy Pete.  How the hell do you know if I need more interests or not, oh political one?  I work as a broker from about 6:30a.m.-4p.m. (I too am in front of a computer and can log in), and then usually workout from 4:30-5:45 (5 days per week), then come home, eat dinner, take the dog for a walk, maybe watch some sports or news on TV, and go to bed about 9:30.  On top of that, I meet with some Church groups 2x per week (weeknights)for about 2 hours each time.  I probably go on dates on average about two to three times per week, and have a lakehouse that I go to on the weekends prob 2x/mo., and Church on Sunday mornings on top of that.

Seems like I have enough interests to keep me busy.

"Stick that in your mouse and click it." lol.

Funny how you never really talk about the things you do with your wife.  What does she do all day?  Crochet on the couch while she watches you surf the internet?  And you speak no Spanish!

If I didn't know you were married, I would think you live the life of a post-middle age single man.  You are still married, aren't ya Political Pete?

... in response to A little 'bout me.....and more ?? for yo..., posted by JunFanDallas on Mar 4, 2003

Mike,
I was saying " you need some interests "As in a person needs some intersets or more specifically I need some interests.It was not meant to be a statement that YOU need some interests.Sounds like your busy enough.But you got a way of taking things wrong,as if I was telling you what you needed.Not at all.
As far as my wife she works part time,has alot of female friends and talks on the phone alot to them and her family.I work at home mostly,except when meeting people or showing property.So we spend quite a bit of time together at home.We visit friends,have them over,go to dinner and movies,music events and festivals.We have done alot of small vacations(tahoe,disneyland) as well as big ones.Her english is pretty good,so I need no spanish.Even when we met her english was way ahead of my spanish so thats always been how we communicate.
Yup,still married.

Pete

... in response to Re: Good Ole "Political Pete", posted by Pete E on Mar 3, 2003

My wife just asked me what I was doing.I told her wasting time on my discussion board.
She said "finaly you admit."

Pete

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by elcolombiano on Feb 28, 2003

El Colombiano wrote:

"I do not understand you guys that date lower social class women ..."

I don't understand guys who WON'T date lower social class women.  Men of character have been marrying down for centuries for love and have found good, loving wives.  The others have missed a lot of opportunities.  There are good and bad at both ends of the social spectrum.

Steve

... in response to Not Class Conscious, posted by DallasSteve2 on Feb 28, 2003

All that matters is to find someone with whom you are happy, compatible and share common goals for the future...

Categorizing people based on social class is elitist... I  know people that come from lower social/economic classes, but succeeded in improving their lives through education and effort... At the same time I know people who come from money that have let their social status destroy their value as a person through an inflated perception of self worth...

As usual, everyone has their own perspective on reality... Generalizations are nothing more than opinions whose only value is to the person spewing them as truth...

Whatever gets you through the day...

... in response to Not Class Conscious, posted by DallasSteve2 on Feb 28, 2003

There's a good example in the "Devil's Dictionary".
maverick: In the U.S. a wild horse from the Western Plains;
In the U.K., the American wife of a member of the House of
Lords

... in response to Not Class Conscious, posted by DallasSteve2 on Feb 28, 2003

Colombiano,
I agree with that last line 100%.

The reason why gringos usually marry poorer women, quite frankly is because they can.  You don't see the same desire to leave the country from the more educated women with careers...and what a coincidence that these young women  aren't attracted to the 40, 50, or 60 something gringos, who are looking for a 20-something trophy wife.  Have you guys ever wondered about that?

Remember, the desire for the Colombian woman to leave her country & all she holds dear is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL to her economic status!  Period.

And if you want a girl who you can be superior to in order to inflate your ego or quell your insecurities...go right ahead, marry the hot young girl that comes from a poor family.  'Cuz you can....ask Steve, he's done it twice in less than two years.

JunFan

... in response to but I know why you do Steve, posted by JunFan on Feb 28, 2003

Congratulations Steve....

It is important to keep trying and not become dour,disallusioned and just quit.

Congratulations for staying focused in the pursuit of your dreams...

Best wishes for your success

... in response to Re: but I know why you do Steve, posted by Dean on Mar 1, 2003

....also something that we should not take lightly.  I know, I was guilty of it once.  

Some people on this board have the attitude that they'll marry one, and if it doesn't work out, they can always try again.

Like...  "ooops, real sorry about that, next!"

... in response to but I know why you do Steve, posted by JunFan on Feb 28, 2003

Mike

Your points are valid, but that's not the issue I was addressing.  I was considering why men, particularly here in the US, have often married women from lower social classes, and not just some rich octagenarian who marries an ex-Playboy Playmate.

In my case, you're probably right.  In the case of men in general I think El Colombiano's point of view is myopic.  There are many good women of lower classes and many b*tches from upper classes.  That was my point.

And I believe it shows again the difference in cultures between the US and Colombia.  We are pragmatic.  They are traditional.  Pragmatism say "If it works, use it.  If not, discard it."  Traditionalism says "My traditions (family and friends) don't accept someone of lower class."

Pragmatism produces a better life and a better future than traditionalism.  I don't see a practical reason for being class conscious in choosing a wife.

Steve

... in response to but I know why you do Steve, posted by JunFan on Feb 28, 2003


   I have to agree with you and Colombiano. I have mentioned that a translator asked me why americans come and marry our maids. It is obvious. We "older guys" have an opportunity to relive our relationship lives with younger more beautiful women.( just call me papi!! ) The younger guys have the option of being with non judgemental, non competitive females, who are beautiful. The lack of social graces or self confidence is not a factor when there is a language difference.
     The women on the other hand have an opportunity of marrying someone exotic, leaving a culture which treats them as less than equal, elevating their social status and possibly their economic status.
 We have all looked at the agency bio's, 32 year old student ( unemployed and studying english at els ) Marketing or Sales ( works in LA14 ) administrator(secretary) Auxilary Accountant ( cashier book keeper) Model ( pretty,unemployed with no future or education) How many men complain about paying for the girls taxi's. How many girls show up at an agency in their own car.
    I attended Javieriana University in Pance  not one girl ever looked at me. Why?  they all were upper middle class with futures. Why would a 22 year old girl with one child marry a fifty five year old man? It is all very obvious and we need to understand it while we make our choices. Denial never helped anyone. She can fall in love with you even if she is not when you marry. I think underneath it all, we understand the class issues and delight in opportunities we are given. Jim C

... in response to but I know why you do Steve, posted by JunFan on Feb 28, 2003

Are you projecting your own experience or what! Boy are you stereotyping.  I am sure there are Colombian women that fit what you are saying, but there are a whole bunch of other Colombian women that don't.  I don't know much about the class system as my wife is from Bogota and while the class system might be in place in Bogota, I know nothing about it and it wasn't a factor I considered or something I even knew about when I met my wife.  I think there are a lot of reasons Colombian women are willing to leave Colombia (notice I said willing to leave as opposed to desire to leave) beside economic status.  It is my belief that in my wife's case it was because she wanted a faithful husband.  Security for our future children came into play also, but economics had nothing to do with it.

... in response to Yikes!, posted by lswote on Feb 28, 2003

I don't doubt you didn't know your wife's social class, but believe me, she does, whether she tells you or not!

But you don't have to explicitly know what the class is to make a decision that will have the same outcome.  For instance, finding an educated woman, who has a good job, that lives on her own, etc...will more or less tell you what class she either came from, or what class she is currently in....get it?

... in response to and another thing..., posted by JunFan on Feb 28, 2003

Yeah, I get it. But admitting that we all, whether in Latin America or the United States, tend to look for certain qualities in a person that are compatible with our goals is normal, not something that should be portrayed as negative.  And that is what you did in the initial post I responded to, portrayed any reason that a Latin woman would be interested in an American man as negative, ie. trying to improve her social or economic circumstances.  I understand you have first hand experience of some Latina using you, but we all have our own stories to tell of letdown, perhaps betrayal.  But you can't carry a chip around on your shoulder for the rest of your life about it, showing disrespect and uncompassion by grouping all people in the same group as the person who failed you in the past.  I have looked at your website and you are a very handsome young man and very physically fit.  I wouldn't think you would have any trouble finding a wonderful woman either in Latin America or the states, and yet instead about posting about your continuing search, about all the possible women that might be caught in your net, most of your posts here are in some aspect negative about either something about the Latin American experience or about some poster here.  Why don't you channel all that energy into finding a woman that makes you happy and adds to the quality of your life, or else just let go of the Latin experience and move on to something else.  Many of us here on PlanetLove have been burnt by someone, at sometime, but we just have to let go of the letdown and move on to something else somewhere else.

... in response to Re: and another thing..., posted by lswote on Feb 28, 2003

First of all, my ex-wife didn't use me for anything!  She had all her papers, and never even entertained the idea of staying here, she's back in Colombia now and we are on good terms.  We both had honorable intentions, and it didn't work out...simple as that.  

I have moved on, but read this thing for fun. It's actually comical to look back on how I bought into some of the very same bulls%$t that some of you guys talk about.

I actually date, on a regular basis, the types of women most guys on this board can't have...the 24-32 year old hot, smart, successful, American women.  For that matter, I have dated Asians, Eastern Europeans, Latinas with papers that live here, your good ole East Texas sweeties, and everything in between.

What I have come to learn is that finding "the" woman is truly like finding a needle in a haystack.  To think that it is somehow easier to find that woman on one, or a handful of trips to a foreign land, is absolutely insane. Insane I tell you. Sure, it can be done, but so can winning the lottery.

There is soooo much denial on this board it's unbelievable.

"Where there are dreams there will always be dreamers"

JunFan out.

... in response to LSWOTE.....you dont know what you're tal..., posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

[This message has been edited by lswote]

Well I think you should just go away and not come back since the only reason you are here is "read this thing for fun" and you never contribute and only criticize or ridicule.  You have no respect for the the people here or the reason most of us are here.  Your comment that trying to find the right one is like finding a needle in the haystack, coupled with your comment that you can date "the types of women most men on this board can't have", shows you to be an immature self-indulgent person who is only here to poke fun at people you consider your inferiors.

I was once young, good-looking and dated a wide range of women.  I was even married to an East-Texas hottie for 13 years.  But I have aged and things have changed, but the good news is my heart and mind have changed too.  I understand more about the give and take of a relationship and have a lot clearer idea of what life is about than when I was younger.  I have learned there is no "the" woman, but realized that there are a lot of good women with who you can make a nice life with.  When you stop looking for "the" one, you don't have to search the haystack for that needle anymore.  Maybe trying to find a needle in a haystack is a correct analogy for an older man such as myself trying to find a decent attractive woman in the United States but it certainly is not true for Colombia.

In my original post to you, I was trying to compliment you on what I perceived were your positive attributes after viewing your website and offer you some encouragement and exhort you because I was under the mistaken belief you actually would appreciate some positive feedback from somebody with a little more experience in life.  Obviously I was wrong.

You say most of us are in denial.  I say to you that you are young and don't have a clue about what life still has in store for you.  Give yourself another 20 years and then come back and tell us if your story is the same.

... in response to LSWOTE.....you dont know what you're tal..., posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

It is actually the logistics that make Colombia a good hunting ground, the quality eligible female population far exceeds the male when compared to the US.

Though the whole concept is best suited for 35-55 gringos looking for a second chance.

... in response to LSWOTE.....you dont know what you're tal..., posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

that gives little merit to some of your past experiences on marriage with a latina--"I actually date, on a regular basis, the types of women most guys on this board can't have"----dude call me old school but when somebody TRIES too hard to convince me of something I kinda question it--kinda like when a truely KLU KLUX KLAN idiot tries to convince everybody that he is not a racist by saying he has black friends--if that person really was not a racist he would not really have to worry about whether people think he is or not but to each his own--Colman

... in response to dude its your inflated ego on yourself, posted by colman on Mar 2, 2003

Look Colman...you & I both know we have never seen eye to eye about anything.  

My ego is not inflated, I was being very objective.  Like I said...

All you do when you say that is reinforce what I said about denial...too many people on this board are awash in it.

What's up with you man?  You are from Colombia but are on this board trying to do what?  Learn from gringos?  Or to show us a Colombian man's point of view, which is nice, but irrelavent as most of us are Americans!

LOL...too funny.

... in response to whatever, posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

Mike,
You raise a good question talking to Colman,but I think its a good one for you.
First of all,I wonder why you even considered Colombia in the first place.You are a rare example on this board of a guy who actually has a chance for a decent attractive american woman.29,(I think)tall,relatively good looking,mid 6 figure income.Seems you would be a hot item with american chicks,unless there is something we don't see here.You mention you are finding good american women to date.I can belive that.Most of us don't have the "stats" for that.
So,why did you shop Colombia in thr first place and why are you still hanging around here?
You have a very negative attitude about Colombia as a source of women.I can understand that to a point based on your negative experience,but you seem to think every other guy is destined for the same experience.
I will grant you that finding a seemingly good and attractive Colombiana is easier than having it work out.There is a little bit of "polyanish"attitude here.
Alot of guys seem to be doing well,but time will tell.
The truth probably lies somewhere between guys who think they have found their one and only but it is relatively new and your attitude that everyone is bound for failure.But most of us have no other decent options,thats why we are here.
So the question again "whats up with you" or why are you here.
As I said in the past I do respect you for quickly discovering your relationship was not going to work and ending it.If it seemingly is not going to work thats a smart way to go.Its kind of along the line of what you have said about others,they think that if it doesn't work they can just send her back.Yes,that is a real option.I know it still can get messy and expensive,as you have pointed out.And then they can choose to just go get another one,as Dallas Steve has.I personally think thats a better option than sitting around being sad about it.Nothing gets you over an old relationship better than a new one.
You are carrying around an "attitude " about this.What gives?

Pete

... in response to "whats up with you man", posted by Pete E on Mar 3, 2003

Well Pete,
You are right about one thing...I shouldn't have gone down to Colombia in the first place.  It's a long story, but the bottom line was I was searching for something I guess.  Looking back, I think I was not secure with myself, and therefore wanted to find an attractive girl, but one that would not "compete" with me, or make me face up to my insecurities.  And honestly, alcohol and marijuana abuse made things worse.  And I will admit that the romanticism of South America, with the laid back culture, beautiful women, great food, etc. kind of captivated me.  I got caught up in the fantasy.  Am I bitter about it?  I know it sounds like it, but I'm honestly not.  I just can't believe how ignorant I was!

So what gives now?  I have taken a hard look at myself and came clean....brutal honesty!  It's not easy to do, but it is very liberating once done.  I have opened up a whole new world of relationships with AW that I never dreamed existed.  

Bottom line:  be the kind of man that will attract the right kind of women!

And I shouldn't come back here and rip on those who haven't come to the same conclusion that I have (even though I'm right ;)

... in response to here goes...., posted by JunFan on Mar 3, 2003

Mike ,
Sounds like a honest explanation.And I agree with your be the right kind of man statement.
As far as ripping on those who haven't reached the same conclusion,I can't fault  your conclusions about your experience.You don't really Knock guys seeking Colombianas in this post but sometimes you seem to.For some of us its one of the only good choices going.It is loaded with risk that we may not see being enamored with a beautifull woman.As I have said our judgement seems to get impaired porportionally to the beauty of the woman.But many guys have had success.I know,we need more time to really measure alot of relationships by.But I don't think they are doomed to failure.I would be very surprised if the long term failure rate matched that in the US of 50% or so.

Pete

... in response to Fair enough, posted by Pete E on Mar 3, 2003

I really liked your post here. You sound like a budding psychologist, being open minded and optimistic, non-judgemental.

However, with selfish gringos and colombianas involved, the divorce rate may exceed that of the USA.

Honestly, I believe that this method for looking for a partner is not meant for everyone. It takes two people of a special kind, like you and your wife for example. I mean that in a positive context.

Cheers,
Aaron

... in response to Fair enough, posted by Pete E on Mar 3, 2003

I am active on the 2G's site, and we have gotten together a pretty good sample, and it's pretty close to 50%, and I'm sure that number is conservative due to the fact that it's easier to come back and "take a victory lap" vs. coming back and admitting "failure" in front of a group.

But I'm not gonna get into that right now.

... in response to I doubt it...., posted by JunFan on Mar 3, 2003

Mike,
It seems like 80-90% success on this site.My personal aquantances are batting almost 100%.One guys wife left and he divorced her but they got back together in a year and remarried.Failures definetly seem to be in the minority.But its early,many guys have been with their ladies a few months.In the US it takes years for those statistics to come out.My first marriage lasted 7 years.
Also,the 50 % failure rate here is not really accurate.I think only 30 some percent of first marriages end in divorve.But of those who do divorce tend to repeat it more than once.So maybe 66% are married once.The other 334% get married like 3.5 times.So it comes out 50 divorces per 100 marriages.Not the same marriages.
Things like big age differences could play in to LONG term results also.
I haven't been to 2G site for awhile.50% failure seems huge.

Pete

... in response to "whats up with you man", posted by Pete E on Mar 3, 2003

Your wasting your time Pete...

Some people just have a bad attitude... Period...

Doesn't matter if it's agreeing to disagree as with this forum, or that the sun rises in the east...

... in response to whatever, posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

Pick any of the over 200 countries, islands, monarchies, commuinist states, political units, commonwealths on earth and any one of those people that come from thier can be an American. I am an American also. I am on this board to share different viewpoints because sometimes I laugh at how "Americans"  look at Colombianas/Latinas. Hey I may not be right all the time but I am frank, honest, and sometimes have to slap "reality" on this forum-no one is obligated to view it--anyway--just wanted to point out how you lose some of your merit because of your "know it all, pretentions, condescending attitute"--hey I am not here to change you but WHEW! the way you post sometimes makes me wonder what factors contributed to the termination of your marriage--which you have shared-and thats why I type this otherwise it would be none of my business to opinionate--Colman

... in response to what is an American?, posted by colman on Mar 2, 2003

Remember, your a COLOMBIAN-AMERICAN as you like to tirelessy lecture the board about.  You have to "slap reality" to the board?  jijijijiji Now thats funny.  Pick any 200 different spots on the globe and the people there could become citizens of many different countries, not just the USA so whats your point?  You, and like minded lefties, simply dont want America to have any national identity at all. You want it to go away and become something entirely different than what it was supposed to be when he country was founded.  But, you dont care about that either.  Take a hike...

... in response to Re: what is an American? Not you I suppo..., posted by Yalg on Mar 4, 2003

who cant stand for people to be an American and simultaneously have a culture, history, language and differnt way of doing things to choose from--you cant stand for people at the supermarket speaking Tagalog, Spanish, Polish, Armenian--you cant stand many other blessings coming from a person who can choose the positive things from both cultures--wow never knew how close-minded some people could be anyway god bless you dude (you need it, did the flintstones ever go to church?)--Colman

... in response to lol--dude your the one, posted by colman on Mar 4, 2003

I do think its bad when people come here and dont give a rip for the english language...Its called America and here we speak english, at least we are supposed to but cretins like yourself dont care what the country deteriorates into.  Colman, your a punk, plain and simple..you really hate this nation is some ways and cant wait until its torn down....

As far as your little fiesta with junfan....he's got you pegged perfectly....as well as most of the guys here who have no clue what they are doing....yourself and myself possibly included...except that I am trying to really take a hard look at this whole process and stop lying to myself.....thats the hardest part...to stop the lying..

... in response to Your right, posted by Yalg on Mar 4, 2003

Yes we live in a country where English is the language most spoken and yes I agree that when people come here, they should learn Enlgish not to satisfy "whiners" but to genuinely improve thier oppurtunities here....the problem is if I already speak English and choose to speak Spanish to whomever I wish to people who only speak English should not be bothered by it (its a vibe--I sense many people sub-consciously get bothered by this)--again when I go to the supermarket and hear tons of different languages I think its pretty cool--and when you see these people you KNOW they also speak English--dam--what is wrong with that--its that sub-conscious little monster inside of these people--that little monster is called ENVY--Colman

... in response to what is an American?, posted by colman on Mar 2, 2003

In your earlier post to Junfan you had to bring up the Ku Klux Klan to make a point....even when you try to be objective your own racism shows itself.  Your just a blowhard dude, you have your own agenda on this board so what do you care what junfans is, if any?  Personally, I agree with him about most of what he is saying. Most of the guy on this board, possibly myself included, dont really have a clue what they are doing or what the future hold with these relationships.

... in response to what is an American?, posted by colman on Mar 2, 2003

hey, if I lose my 'merit' with some, so be it.  

Can't please all the people all the time.

And thank you soooooo F$&Cking much for gracing us with your 'reality'.

The only problem is I don't see it's application to hardly any of the posters, but keep on dishing man....como se dice "irrelevant" en espanol?

... in response to to each his own..., posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

My point was it was "you" who e-mailed me a long time ago to "gang-up" on someone you did not agree with--I mean if this is how you deal with people I am surprise that young Colombiana did not run back to Colombia. People have, do and I believe will still ask me questions on the forum and emailed to me--and I will try my best to answer all oh by the way thier is no specific word equivilant to irrelevant but it can be loosely translated into Spanish with "fuera del caso", or "-inoportuno/a"--Colman

... in response to your right...you cant please all, posted by colman on Mar 4, 2003

....the fool, or the fool that follows him?"

And don't flatter yourself, I have never emailed you.

... in response to Who is more foolish...., posted by JunFan on Mar 4, 2003

obviously your more foolish for lying. I admit it was a long time ago you e-mailed me because you were creating this little internet forum club to bash somebody on the forum who disagree--and dude YOU dont flatter yourself-guess it did not work--colman

... in response to to each his own..., posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

My point was it was "you" who e-mailed me a long time ago to "gang-up" on someone you did not agree with--I mean if this is how you deal with people I am surprise that young Colombiana did not run back to Colombia. People have, do and I believe will still ask me questions on the forum and emailed to me--and I will try my best to answer all oh by the way thier is no specific word equivilant to irrelevant but it can be loosely translated into Spanish with "fuera del caso", or "-inoportuno/a"--Colman

... in response to Re: and another thing..., posted by lswote on Feb 28, 2003

Bruce...

I agree....

Having watched the board for several years, read all the historical reports and comments and watched things unfold I agree with your comments....

Congratulations on your recent wedding....

Dean

... in response to Yikes!, posted by lswote on Feb 28, 2003

I certainly have more than one datapoint from which I base my opinions....

Stereotype..?? Maybe, but we all stereotype to some degree.  Hmmmm, I have actually met plenty of functional families in Colombia, with very honorable men.  I guess your wife is stereotyping too?

Interesting.

Believe what you want

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

Good question,I think there is alot of class rigitity.
But thats an advantage for a gringo.We basically don't give a damm about that system and if the lady is attractive and honest she will do.And marrying a gringo is marrying up for most all Colombianas.Except for the extreme upper class the Colombiana is going to do better financially with a normal gringo.
My nephew is married to an upper class Colombiana.Her father is the former governor of the state of Tolima.My nephew met her in College in the US.They live a very middle class life style here and she works part time arranging banquets and even getting involved in serving meals for a hotel.And they live in a cold part of Washington State.
But she likes it better here because security is such a big issue for her and her family in Colombia.She has a totally different attitude than my wife,who is sort of middle class I guess.Wealthy people are scared in Colombia.Her family lives in Ibague,maybe its more dangerous.She will not take her daughter with her when she visits Colombia and she basically hangs out with her family in a guarded compound and they go almost no where from there.Last year they got together in Spain because of security fears.
My wife thinks she exagerates.I think they have a whole different experience.Wealthy people are targets.Middle or lower class people are not bothered by anybody but petty crooks because they are not percieved as having anything to steal.I think the situation would be similar for a gringo who lets on he has money.You are a target and it just might not be worth it to be there.When the rich are fleeing Colombia,do you really want to step in their place?
The father of my nephews wife has alot of farm land.But he does not live on it.He will go out day time only to check on it,and he may not do much of that any more.
Oh,the father is about 25 years older than the mother.So its not just marrying gringos where we get the big age difference.

Pete