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I  qualify as a pensionado and sometimes think about living in Colombia,usually every time it gets tough to make the kind of money I need to live in California.That usually happens about once a month when I cough up my $5000 house payment.I have been told I could live like a king in Colombia on my $40,000 pension,plus SS around the corner,$900-$1800 more a month depending on how long I wait.
For my wife the location would have to be Cali,although I would prefer someplace with a beach,even another country.
I get concerned that the lifestyle I would like would make me a target.If I rent or buy a nice house and drive a nice car or SUV I am afraid it would not be safe.One as-hol- robber could make it all not worthwhile.
I would especially like the opinions of guys who have lived in colombia.

Pete

... in response to Living in Colombia/Cali, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

Pete, I don't live in Cali full time but I can give you alittle insight on what it is like for me.  I have an apartment in the south, I also own 2 businesses along with a truck.  Let me tell you about my experience with the truck.  Be prepared to be stopped everyday by the police, on average I am stopped and searched 2 times each day.  The police stop most expensive cars and trucks.  Checking everything from black glass, your documents, making sure the tax was paid on the truck, etc....   Basically they are looking for something to nail you with. If they find something then you have two options, pay them to forget about it or go through the legal process.  If you buy a vehicle make sure all documents are legit and legal.  Otherwise you will have problems.  Remember not many Americans own a vehicle so when the police see that an American owns the vehicle they immediately think you are rich and are looking for a payoff.  I have everything in order with my businesses and my vehicle but without a doubt it's a hassle to be stopped on a daily basis for nothing.  This is the reality of life in Colombia and Cali.  It's no picnic.  You will need to adjust the way you think because this isn't anything like living in the U.S.  Also driving is an adventure.  No one follows traffic laws.  A red light is just another color to most Colombian drivers and the roads are in terrible condition so you must adjust. If you are interested in a laid back lifestlye then living in Cali won't fit that script. You need to remember this is Colombia not a tourist destination.  Theft, kidnapping, police corruption, violence, unsafe roads and drivers are the reality.  It's a lottery and you just hope the bad things that happen in Colombia don't come your way.  Good luck.

Pacino

... in response to LIVING IN COLOMBIA, posted by Pacino on Jan 22, 2003

Wise words. Cali traffic, noise, discourtesy, chaos, and
danger drove me crazy in two weeks. I could not imagine
a lifetime there without benefit of quaaludes.

... in response to LIVING IN COLOMBIA, posted by Pacino on Jan 22, 2003

We were riding in a taxi near Unicentral.The cops had the right lane blocked and some nice looking cars pulled over.I asked my wife why.She made the finger rubbing sign for money.Damm!Being that blatant about shaking down people is a sign of a government out of control.
Taxis are cheap.That may be the way to go.
Thanks for your imput.Would you live there full time if you had an independent income?

Pete

... in response to Thats what I am affraid of, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

I can live in Cali if I wanted now fulltime but I not interested in that.  I love Colombia but I also love living in the US so it's like having the best of both worlds.  If you decide to buy a house in the future make sure security is a priority.  A secure gated community is the way to go.  

Pacino

... in response to No, posted by Pacino on Jan 22, 2003

What I forget when I start fanasising about living in Cali is how bored I was there om my last trip because I felt confined to my in laws house.I could be a little more creative for things to do but it could still drive me crazy.
Someone mentioned Panama and beaches.Safer and still affordable?
Ideally I would like to live in Latin America about 9 months a year and spend the middle of the summer in the in the western US.Kind of an endless summer quest.

Pete

... in response to Re: No, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

Hey Pete E..I mentioned Costa Rica, best latin american country a north american can go and retire to. The beaches are excellent and you can buy a decent house for about 45K. Sounds like you already found your colombiana, there are lots of colombians that live in CR too. Lots of expatriates moved there because of the great weather and they can make thier pensions go further. It isnt as cheap as colombia but it doesnt have near as many dangers. Lots of USA investment in CR and nobody shooting at each other. I thought the beer is better than in colombia too.

... in response to Living in Colombia/Cali, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

I had this same discussion with my brother and father-in-law
a few weeks ago in Cali. I told them that since I would be a
target, so would their daughter, and future children.

They told me that Colombia will be different in 2-3 years.
My brother-in-law is a high-level business executive, and
he told me the indicators in the Valle de Cuaca are rising,
and investment is slowly returning. He told me not to think
of living here until then.

... in response to Re: Living in Colombia/Cali, posted by Celt on Jan 22, 2003

If things are getting better is this perhaps a time to buy real estate?
A factor is the dollar has been constantly rising against the peso even though going down re other currencies.So that alone would say wait,but perhaps there is going to be a real estate turn around in Cali and prices are unusually low now?
I hear it could be bargain shopping time on distressed properties.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Living in Colombia/Cali, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

Exactly. My relatives tell me in the next six months is the
time to buy. Cali prices are not dropping anymore, but
there are still distressed properties at a big mark-down.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Living in Colombia/Cali, posted by Celt on Jan 22, 2003

Suspicions confirmed.My wife would love to buy property their.Its got me thinking.
What to buy?I would think a nice house but some people recommend high rise type condos for security.I even have a friend looking at Fincas outside the city but that really scares me.
Maybe if we lived there we could forgo the car for safety,or buy a cheap one.Some neighborhoods seem to have alot of private security patrols.Is this sufficient?I get concearned because the security guys I saw didn't have guns so their effectiveness could be limited to controling minor criminals.If I was them I would split if shooting started.
It does make you think when Colombians with money have split for Miami.One serious threat could do that to you.
If they started moving back it could be a sign.
I heard a story about a family in Bogota with a successfull business.The father was told give us your money or we will kill you.He opted for Miami.

Pete

... in response to Hmmm !, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

I don't know how safe Bogota is for a gringo, but I definately see signs of gringos living very flashly apparently with not alot of concern for safety.  Several times when I have gone out of the city I have seen mint condition '57 Chevys, or '55 T-Birds or other pristine cars that us baby-boomers love driving down the highway.  The '55 T-Bird was even a convertible with the top down.  I know these cars have to be owned by gringos, so I would think anyone else would know this too and if they were targets they wouldn't be driving such visible cars.

... in response to Re: Hmmm !, posted by lswote on Jan 22, 2003

I wouldn't be so sure about gringos owning the gringo cars. Colombians are real classic car fanatics. Within just a few blocks of my house in Cali live a Henry J, a '56 Olds 2dr Holiday 98, a '61 Mercedes and a '47 Plymouth all cherry. I'm sure there are more great classics tucked away in garages nearby.

... in response to Re: Hmmm !, posted by lswote on Jan 22, 2003

In Cali, I saw alot of other types of classics: 70-74  Dodge Darts,
for example. One guy was so proud he lifted up the hood to show me
the original, very clean engine. I would have thought he was a
foreigner too, until I talked with him.

... in response to Hmmm !, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

The game is Cali, at least for the modest investor, is
played two ways: (1) buy a large, two-story house and
cut it into four apartments, with their own kitchens,
and bathrooms. Rent out 3 and live in the other. You
can play with the numbers, according to space, etc; (2)
buy gated apartments and rent them as single-family
households. The rules for both: only in the West and
South; as close to possible to Universities; and, of
course, low-key.

... in response to Re: Hmmm !, posted by Celt on Jan 22, 2003

Hey, why not buy in the north of Cali.  Maybe a nice condo in the Chipi area near the mall.  Safe, big penthouse overlooking the city.  Walk to the mall.  Or something similar along the River.  My cousin and I saw a penthouse to rent or buy along the river just up from the Intercontinental 2 years ago.  3 levels, 7000+ sq feet.  Absolutely the nicest I had been in.  The purchase price was $500,000,000 pesos or $3,500,000 pesos rent per month.  Plus there was the administration of $700,000pesos per month.  the property was like Fort Knox.  Very tight security to get in just to view it.  Two heated pools, steam, sauna, racketball, play area for kids.  The apartment was complete with even a music room, bar, and home theatre.  Had a private rooftop gym and garden and hot tub. And it backed up to one of trails to hike 3 crosses.  It was nice.  I am sure now with the peso almost $3000 to $1US, places like this can be purchased for 1/2 that number. then truly live like a king when you are down there....

... in response to Buy a condo, here's what I found, posted by Throw on Jan 23, 2003

Some of you that may remember the Crystal Palace the former home of Latin Love,an 18,000 sq. ft. mansion in Cuidad Jardine in the south of Cali.10 bedrooms,8 baths,2000 sq. ft. gym.Huge pool.My bedroom was over 2000 sq. ft.One of  the nicest houses in Cali.When Latin Love rented it I believe the rent dropped to below $3000 a month.I was told by a Colombiano in the know it was probably worth only $400,000 or so at the time.A gringo I know who was recently real estate shopping in Cali tells me it is now probably worth about $200,000.It is in need of repair and the utility expenses were high,I think more than the rent when Latin Love was operating it as an agency.
Apparently you can buy a very nice 5000 sq. ft or so house in a good neighborhood for $50,000 or so.My in laws own a 3 bedroom 2 bath townhouse in what is now a somewhat bad and unsafe area of Cali,although I am sure there are worse.Its worth less than $5000 and they rent it for about $70 a month and even then have trouble getting the rent.
For a gringo a high rise condo may be the way to go because they have full time security at the entrance.Houses in neighborhoods are less safe.The bad guys could get you figured out and do a home invasion.Neighborhood security is less effective than front gate security at a high rise.
For gun control advocates here,Cali is your place.Only the bad guys and a very few security people have guns.Its against the law to have them except for very rare situations,so as the NRA says,when guns are illegal only criminals will have guns.

Pete

... in response to Buy a condo, here's what I found, posted by Throw on Jan 23, 2003

I was writing from the perspective of an investor, not a dweller.
Many people have told me dividing up large houses
is a common real estate investment technique in Cali. Of
course, if I wanted to live there myself, I would choose one
of the high-rises on the N. side of the Rio Cali on the
West side.