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With the rapid decline of Catholiscm in Latin America, new cult groups are emerging every day.  Latin women seem particularly vulnerable to them.  My novia fell for one which is particularly popular in Bogota "Mision Carismatica Internacional" run by "Cesar Castellanos" so I had to dump her.  There is also one other man on LWL that had a bad experience with this.  Search the archives.

... in response to Beware of cult groups in Latin America, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 26, 2002

There are lots of newer christian based churches spinging up in latin america.I think the Catholics have left a void and the door open here.
What that group looks like is another matter.Mission charismatica sounds like Jimmy Swagart.I'm no fan of his but his church is not a cult.
There are a number of tests if a church is a cult.The main one I remember is if the leader is regarded in  sort of super human way.Controlling the lives of members and seperating them from their family or otheres who do not believe the same are others I think.
Of course as an individual we can make our judgement about what we will accept in a partner and you have done that,with good reason I hope.
I got involved with a human potential groupI now consider a cult(mild version) now 28 years ago.They had me in their control to a limited extent for 3 years or so.Seems silly in retrospect but these people were good.A man I admire once said"beware of people who manipulate with the truth,its much more powerfull than lies."

Pete

... in response to Depends on what you call a cult, posted by Pete E on Jun 27, 2002

Hmmm: Werner Erhart's EST cult maybe? You certainly don't sound like a former Black Panther although you are from the Bay Area! Cults flourish generally where there is a lack of hope and life inexperience.

... in response to Re: Depends on what you call a cult, posted by Rick Johnson on Jun 27, 2002

Bingo,
Actually there were alot of possitives but then there was this manipulation group mind control thing going on.Your judgement got worn down to conform with the group.
When Jim Jones(peoples temple) got his whole congregation to commit suicide in about 1978 I couldn't shake my identification of this with my est experience.
Peoples Temple was a San Francisco church  group that went to Guiana.Some of those folks were veterans of other human potential groups.
As I eluded to,manipulating with the truth,in the case of est.Pure demogogory in the case of Jim Jones.A nut case in charge.Werner isn't a nut case,he is a shrewd SOB.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Depends on what you call a cult, posted by Pete E on Jun 27, 2002

I can relate to what you are saying Pete, I used to be involved with the Church of Scientology. They did not get very much of my money but they sure tried hard enough to get more. I finally read about someone's experience that had been with the Church for almost 20 years and woke up to what their goals really are. There are some positives but I uncovered too many lies and deceptions that they operate under. That L. Ron Hubbard was one crazy S.O.B., but he socked away one huge stack of cash in foreign countries. He died an old decrepid man which is contrary to everything that Dianetics/Scientology is supposed to do for the  "student/preclear".

This totally off topic to finding a latin mate but this thread hit so close to home for me. Ben

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Depends on what you call a c..., posted by BenKramer on Jun 28, 2002

Ben,
Yes,I think they are the worst at  manipulating with the truth.There are some simple psyhlogical things that may help,partutually for someone that has problems,but then the big hook.And what a nasty scheeming organization.They have developed alot of  power by being able to create problems for anybody or organization that trys to expose them with their huge budget they have for lawyers.60 miniutes is the only one to really take them on,and they were very carefull.Any other news organization doesn't want the grief so they are off limits to reporters.They have a huge fight going on with the German governmment.I think they finally met their match,at least for within that country.
There are worse groups but they have to be about the worst of the big groups.I only hesitate thinking of the Moonies,but you don't hear much of them any more.
The cult that our original poster talks about sounds worse in that they divide in to small groups for very persopnal manipulation.
Avoid the hell out of anybody that tries to manipulate you.Don't play their game,they are usually better at it.
Run at the first incling they are trying to control you.
Just like you should run at the first sign a latina is trying to decieve you.
Its not totally off topic,one of our guys has encountered it in his latina.Another thing to watch out for.We need to warn each other of any pitfalls.

Pete

... in response to Beware of cult groups in Latin America, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 26, 2002

A couple of thousand years ago when Paganism was the established religon accross Europe Christians were a small, radical and outrageous cult. Today various Christian sects predominate over the same region as well as the much more recent New World and groups with larger attendance like to describe groups with smaller attendence as "cults". It's six of one and half a dozen of the other as far as I'm concerned. A percentage of the population finds it nurturing to adhear to religous beleifs of one kind or another. A persentage of the population doesn't find those stratagies usefull to leading or understanding their lives. Both good and evil behaviors by individuals and groups are carried out in virtualy all human communities regardless of what belief system is in play. Once I went with a girl to Buga, a major religeous tourist destination out side Cali. After sitting through one of the religeous services held hourly in the church we went outside and wondered around the plaza in front which was jampacked with booths selling religious knicknacks. She selected something then told me she had to go back in the church and get on line to get it blessed. On the way back in the bus the small package slipped between our seats. I didn't notice and I guess she thought I had it. When we got off the bus neither of us had it and she suddenly realized the religious artical was still on board as the bus drove off. I thought and said, well that's a shame, why don't we go back next week and get another one. She however was devastated and began sobbing uncontrollably in the street. The problem was that the knicknack had been "blessed" and was therefore irreplacable. Sound like "cult" behavior? Well the church and knicknack were Catholic so many will probobly say no but it certainly met all the criteria I've ever seen and had it been a "sect" with smaller "attendence" than the Catholic church I'm sure it would be roundly condemned by all as "cultish". Condeming groups with smaller "attendence" is a natural outflow of the endless ascendance of one or another popular beleif system over another.

... in response to Re: Beware of cult groups in Latin Ameri..., posted by Cali vet on Jun 26, 2002

Well put Vet...

Freedom of religion was one of the primary reasons this country was founded in the first place... Just because another person's belief system differs from our's is no reason to persecute them... That is unless they condone physical injury to their membership... Remember that the bloodiest wars fought throughout history have always been based on religious differences... Just look at the current state of affairs in the world today...

... in response to Religion, posted by wizard on Jun 26, 2002


 Then let me put it in clearer terms for you so you understand exactly what I mean by cult group.

(1)  First, they attract Latin women with lively popular music and lots of manipulation of emotions.  

(2)  They form small cells of about a dozen people per cell.  Your novia or wife joins.

(3)  The cell starts consuming more and more of her time.  The indoctrination begins with the inculcation of exclusionary, narrow-minded doctrines that clearly separates the world into believers and non-believers.

(4) At some point the group points out that it is inconsistent for your novia or wife to be with a non-believer.

(5) You are presented with your ultimatum, become a believer or she leaves.

It might be useful for you to know this sequence before you make a decision to commit your financial and emotional resources.  So you have a choice in the matter.

... in response to Re: Religion, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 27, 2002

I can understand not wanting to be involved with a girl caught up in this.If she won't dump them dump her,sounds like you did.

Pete

... in response to Re: Religion, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 27, 2002

Point taken...

Cults always manipulate their members through emotional and physical intimidation... Many cults historically have hidden behind the gauze of religion while leveraging their own agenda... And yes, the typical scenario is for a cult to segregate their acolytes from "non-believers" to further cement their psychological hold over them... Then there are the cults that wait for the mother ship to take them home...

I understand where you are coming from having had to write off a relationship because of this... The only point I was trying to make is that one person's cult is another person's religion... And the differences between to two throughout time has caused great strive in civilization... There is a fine line between right and wrong, or good and evil depending on who is making the observation...

I will have to be more thorough when meeting LW as to the extent of their religious beliefs... You're right, the bottom line is our investment in resources (time, energy, financial, emotional) devoted to searching for a foreign soulmate only to have something like this to happen...

Thanks for the perspective...

... in response to Religion, posted by wizard on Jun 26, 2002

Wizard - Normally I'm not one to "pick nits" over statistics but your statement about the bloodiest wars is misleading.  I agree in the sense that many people have been persecuted by those who twist religion to their narrow agendas.  But look at the 20th century - Stalin, Mao and Hitler were dictators of atheist states.  The tens of millions of deaths caused by their murders, wars and mass starvations far outweigh any religious "wars."  Even today, some of the worst conditions in the world are caused by the communists in North Korea and Cuba and the atheist/secular regime in Iraq (I'm no expert, but everything I've ever read about Hussein states that he is not a religious man, he only pretends to be when it suits his objective. I find it hard to believe that any religion would condone the torture and murder of family members).

Regards,
David

... in response to Re: Religion, posted by DavidMN on Jun 27, 2002

Hey David...

I understand your point too... My point is this, no matter what you want to call an entity that manipulates their followers to blindly follow an idiology for their own goals usually wants to suppress non-believers... ALL religious sects have at one time or another throughout history have taken up arms to vanquish the unholy... Throw in atheism for good measure, and you still come down to one person's idiology vs another person's... As you say, Saddam is only religious when it suits him, while imposing his idiology on all within his realm...

... in response to Beware of cult groups in Latin America, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 26, 2002

what is the lwl board?

... in response to Re: Beware of cult groups in Latin Ameri..., posted by mck on Jun 26, 2002

Latin Women List.  For information click on the "Other Forums" Button in Planet Love and scroll to the bottom.

... in response to Beware of cult groups in Latin America, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 26, 2002

Oh god, where should I began on this one lol. I know all about this garbage. My novia first had an experience with a satanic cult about 2 years ago. She was walking threw a park one day and a man approached her who was from Vera Cruz, Mexico which is known for Satanic cults. He befriended her and they became good friends and one day he offered her some chocolates. She claims the chocalates were cursed my the man so she would fall in love with him. She went to get a Tarot card reading and the guy doing the reading told her she was endanger of being used in a human sacrifice by this man and was told to dump the man as soon as possible. She dumped him the very next day. She said the man then threatened that she would dissapear forever and never be scene again by family or friends. Apparently this tarot card reader was correct. She told her brother who is a policeman in Guadalajara about the incident. The brother threatened to kill the guy if if he ever layed a hand on his sister. The guy started arguing with her brother. Her brother was furious. The next day, her brother sent two of his friends that were cops down to the guys house. They planted a couple ounces of cocaine in the guys car and that put him in jail for 10 years. The cops down there have another system of justice lol. I did not believe this story until I asked her brother about it and sure enough it was true. Apparently, human sacrifices still go on in Mexico and Satanic cults are alive and well. Every year hundreds of people dissapear because of these so called cults in Mexico. There was an Amercian kid about 10 years ago from Texas who disapeared in Mexico along the border and they suspect it was do to Satanic cults. The main area where people dissapear is in TJ believe it or not. Everyday my novia tells me these stories. She told me that some of the witches in Mexico have a special book of spells that is passed down from generation to generation and the book is made entirely out of human skin and bone from human sacrifices done over hundreds of years. I am not sure if this is all garbage or not, but I have heard similar stories from other Mexicans from border towns and also from Guadalajara. After the incident with the cursed candy, she went to some hippy guy who taught her how to rid the evil spirits by meditation and practinig positive thinking and all that other new age B.S.. That is how she got started in all that meditation and white magic garbage that she practices at my house. I had to turn my guest bedroom into a meditation room for her. It is full of candles and all sorts of weird stuff lol. I just kind of go along with all her stories and tales of withcraft and new age theories. It is kind of interesting. I am never bored, put it that way lol.

... in response to Re: Beware of cult groups in Latin Ameri..., posted by mck on Jun 26, 2002

I had a girlfriend that sounds similar all though there was no mention of dangerous people.She could talk for hours about all kind of weird spiritual but many times negative stuff.She went on and on with all kinds of details.I think she really had a creative immagination.Even though she was very intelligent it got to where I didn't want to know about it.My spiritual system is much simpler.There is a loving power that guides us for our good and we will inevitably move toward better things over the long run as we learn our lessons.All this negative stuff is created by negative people.I don't believe in an evil power,just peoples ability to be evil.Can they have some sort of spiritual power?I think so,spiritual power can be miss used.
At least your girl friend is on the "white" side of this,but I think you are better off not ever having it in your consciousness.
So my general comment would be avoid anybody involved in this.You are already involved so I hope it works out for you.

Pete