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This came up on Latin-Women list and I thought I would post here also as a warning.

Actually you need the fathers permission,a signature no more than 60 days
old,EVERY TIME the kid leaves the country.I got caught on this on our first
trip back for vacation.We were there 11 extra days and got the kid out then
by dubious means.The father had signed when the kid left the country 9 months
before.
My wife finally got a letter of exclusive custody(not just simple custody,as
in they always lived with you).It had to be singed by the father and blessed
by a judge.The father can actually recind his permission at any time but
since he got material value to sign our attorney built a penalty in to the
agreement if he does this.This took about 8 months and cost us around
$1000,not counting value to the father.
This is the case untill the kid reaches 18 or gets a US passport.My new
travel agent(the old one didn't have a clue about this) also tells me when a
boy reaches 15 or 16 he has to register for the Colombian Military and needs
that card to leave the country.
I hear cases of documents being forged,but be carefull,if you get caught you
could go to jail,and a Colombian jail is no picnic.Our attorney said don't do
it.
And the real lesson here is know you can get the kid back out before you take
him back in.It has nothing to do with his visa or status or green card in the
US unless he has become a citizen and has a US passport.We are talking about
Colombian law here.

Pete

... in response to Fathers permission for child to leave Co..., posted by Pete E on Jun 19, 2002

A digression and off topic I know but I feel compelled to respond to the mention of Colombian jail since I went up to Tulua two weeks ago to visit a friend who's been encarcelated there for two and a half months. It wasn't nearly as horific as I'd expected and I came away with the opinion that if I ever have occaision to end up in the calaboose I'd rather be in that one than a US jail at least from what I've heard. For one thing my friend can have as many prostitutes as he can pay for and he said homosexual activity is confined to just a few consenting participants. The bullpen that the visitors entered where the prisoners hung out and watched tv was clean and didn't smell. They all seemed to have tooth brushes sticking out their back pockets and my friend said hygene was important to them. The visiting process was at the same time amusing and daunting. I had to rent "chanclas" or sandles out side for mil pesos then everyone entered at one pm. Inside I had to hand over my cedula extranjera and get finger printed. Moving along I got four separate stamps on my arm, however typical of Colombia they didn't have four official stamps so two of the stamps were cartoon monkey and bird characters that were childrens' toy stamps. Had to pass through a full body search where you had to drop your drawers and the lunch I brought was examined by sticking their fingers in it and stirring around. Everybody had to stay in the pen from one untill four pm and all the prisoners had to be counted before the visitors could leave. Ever the optimist my friend introduced me to two murderers, a guerrillero and a paramilitary he'd become aquianted with. Mucho gusto senor assesino y senor "para".

... in response to Re: Fathers permission for child to leav..., posted by Cali vet on Jun 20, 2002

My wife say guys in jail have to pay for about everything.So if your poor your in trouble but if you have money you could live well.I have even heard of drug lords in jail watching TV and saying "I want Her"( an actress) and If she was willing for a price she could visit him in jail.
Actually it angers me what is allowed to go on in our prisons.I think part of the law enforcement and prison management look the other way on Homosexual Rape.I think they like people to be afraid of it.They certainly play it up in programs like scared strait.Why not individual cells and lots of electronic survelance?
Thanks for the report,it was interesting and the other side of the story.I immagine there is a wide range of jail conditions.I have heard they are pretty bad in Cali,and Brazil has notorious jail conditions.

Pete

... in response to Re: Interesting, posted by Pete E on Jun 20, 2002

I lived to a block of the jail in Cali in Prados de Oriente.... and the truth is that you could listen people's comments that it left visit of the jail and them same they said that this under very bad conditions, there all the prisoners have weapons (guns and knives), the same as grenades. It is not strange to see that every week a dead criminal of the jail left, there are always fights among them and they are killed among them,  the seam that blackmail the same guards of the jail... outside of that there is asinamiento... (a person doesn't fit  there), some sleep in the corridors of the jail and those that have as paying a cell, share it with 4 or 5 criminals but (cells that are for two people).

... in response to Re: Re: Interesting, posted by zzzz on Jun 20, 2002

Eso es verdad. My friend at first had a very small cell. He's tall and almost couldn't lay down in it. Later he got the jailers to move him to a better place. Yes he said most of them have knives. Many prisoners were freely smoking marijuana when I visited. Me imagino que las condiciones en Tulua sean mejores que Cali.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Interesting, posted by Cali vet on Jun 20, 2002

LA verdad no se..pero lo qeu pasa en Cali , pasa en casi todas  las carceles colombianas.

... in response to Fathers permission for child to leave Co..., posted by Pete E on Jun 19, 2002

yes the father need to sign and grant permission for the child to leave the country...if he and the mother were once married. however if the child was born out of wedlock then the fathers permission is not needed.

... in response to Re: Fathers permission for child to leav..., posted by pack on Jun 19, 2002

Actually the determining factor is if the father is listed on the childs birth certificate.They don't have to have been married.This was our situation.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Fathers permission for child to ..., posted by Pete E on Jun 19, 2002

are you telling me that they never married and the father never paid any support yet because his name was on the birth certificate stating that he was the father of the child that he the father had that much control??

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Fathers permission for child..., posted by pack on Jun 19, 2002

Yes ........it happend to me also.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Fathers permission for child..., posted by pack on Jun 19, 2002

Exactly.Its a very paternalistic national law.The father does not need to be married to the mother,only shown on the birth certificate He doesn't have to have ever seen the kid or paid any support.You need his signature,and even if he gives it he can revoke it at any time.
When I first encountered this at the airport when we were trying to leave Cali I though boy are these people stupid.I showed them his visa and green card and explained we had to have the signature before to get these.Finally a guy who spoke good english explained the law to me.
The only way around it is a court action that will give the mother absolute custody.We did this with the fathers permission but it could have been done without it.Here it becomes important what testimony there is if the father saw the child or gave any support.He could have contested it and it would have been a court battle I think we would have ultimately won,but it was easier to just give him what he wanted.
Also,keep in mind a hit,as in murder contract,is only $50-$200 in Colombia so you really don't want to p--s people off.My wife was concerned for her mothers safety.This isn't a good hombre were talking about here.Even a guy from the Colombian social agency told my wife,"this is a bad man,why did you choose him to be the father of your child?"
Now there is some repore and my step son sees the father
and family when there although he would rather not.The family even complemented my wife on what a good kid he is and she has done a good job raising him.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Fathers permission for c..., posted by Pete E on Jun 19, 2002

are you certain about this. i was told that if there was no marriage and if the fathers name was not on the birth certificate and if the father showed no support or care for the child that the woman was free to make the decisions concerning the childs residency?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fathers permission f..., posted by pack on Jun 20, 2002

The important test of the things you mentioned is the father on the birth certificate.All the others mean nothing unless you wind up in a court custody battle.
My wife was not married to her childs father,but I am several thousand dollars poorer because of the rights he has under Colombian law.This involved 11 extra days in Colombia,an expensive solution to get the kid out that time  and $1000 or so in attorneys fees.The benefit to the father in the agreement involved property of my wifes in Colombia.Not counted in the $$.
If the fathers name is not on the birth certificate he basically has no say although I would immagine even this could be challenged by the father if he thought he should be on the birth certificate.I guess women think its better for their child to list a father.Actually that one can bite them on the a-s later.

Pete

... in response to Re:  I wish I was $1000's less sure, posted by Pete E on Jun 20, 2002

this is not sounding good for me and my situation...thanks for the info Pete

... in response to Re:  I wish I was $1000's less sure, posted by Pete E on Jun 20, 2002

I remember that story. Sounds like Pack better research his specific lady's situation v-e-r-y carefully.

... in response to Re: Re:  I wish I was $1000's less sure, posted by Cali vet on Jun 20, 2002

thats exactly what i plan on doing.

... in response to Fathers permission for child to leave Co..., posted by El Diablo on Jun 19, 2002

this is not sounding good for my situation.

... in response to Re: Fathers permission for child to leav..., posted by pack on Jun 20, 2002

If the father is not on the birth certificate or is agreeable you are OK,otherwise you got a problem.
Some people forge the signature,but then you can never take the kid back in untill he gets a US passport.
If the father cannot be located I think you can go court permission,but this could take time.Some of these jerks are probably too dead to sign.
Becoming a US citizen is something highly sought after by Colombians,I would think a father who cared about his son would want this for the child,along with all the other benefits of the US,like education.This kid probably didn't have much of a future in Colombia,here the sky is the limit.He's very intelligent,wants to be a doctor.
And the father can see him once or twice a year,about as much as he did before.
But pride,stubborness and vindicativeness can become involved.Yes,some of those Macho a--hole Colombian stories are true.Can you believe  a father who never gave his child one cent of support using this law to jerk around the people who are the ones who are taking care of him?Day 10,one day before the expensive solution to get the kid out on the first trip back,the father wanted a legal agreement redrawn because of one misspelled word.Even his attorney said it was OK.He said "I have all the time in the world."This is while we were stuck in Colombia 11 extra days on top of a 23 day vacation and his kid was about to get kicked out of school for being absent.
He has all the time in the world to be a low life loser in Colombia.He is a walking definition of A--hole.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Fathers permission for child to ..., posted by Pete E on Jun 20, 2002

your story is part of the reason why these colombian men have such a bad rep.
i can see i have alot of research to do. from what she has told me the father of this boy is not a good man...so there could be problems on the horizon.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Fathers permission for child..., posted by pack on Jun 20, 2002

Best thing would be for you to go back down when you can and question her closely with aid of a good interpreter and after gathering and colating all the info from other kid bringeruppers on this board.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Fathers permission for c..., posted by Cali vet on Jun 20, 2002

good advice!

... in response to Re: Fathers permission for child to leav..., posted by pack on Jun 20, 2002

In my situation, I have also had many problems with the permission of my son's exit....... every time that there is that I go to Colombia of vacations with my son I am forced if is necessary to request the father's permission, this way the one responds for the boy or nr.  
 
The worst in this situation is like Pete says, it is that if the father says that he doesn't give the permission, my son cannot leave the country...In these moment my husband and I are fighting for my son's complete custody.

... in response to Re: Re: Fathers permission for child to ..., posted by zzzz on Jun 20, 2002

are you living in the USA? if this man is such a problem you may have to make a decision not to return to colombia.

... in response to Re: Re: Fathers permission for child to ..., posted by zzzz on Jun 20, 2002

That is horrible, it is almost like they treat children as common slaves or property. I think the children should be given the choice to travel with whoever they want and should have the same rights as adults. If  twelve year old kids are allowed to drink alchohol in Colombia, they should certainly be given the right to decide when and who they want to travel with without the parents permission.

... in response to poor children, posted by mck on Jun 20, 2002

Slave kids is all they is, they need to make some changes there. Those kids oughta be allowed drink and vote in the elections.

... in response to poor children, posted by mck on Jun 20, 2002

who said that a boy of 12 y.o can drink alcohol?????........ that is a new law  in my country?

... in response to Re: poor children, posted by zzzz on Jun 20, 2002

I'm not sure what they law is,but we sent a 10 year old for beer and he got it.I guess the kid could drink it if he liked.
In bars you would probably have to 13 or so,not a kid who is 4'8".
Actually this is a big problem with rebelious 13 or 14 year old girls who go to bars and meet older guys.The sister of a friend has been a mistress of a mafioso type guy since she was 14.

Pete