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I have not posted about it here do to the public nature of this forum while my divorce was pending, for obvious reasons.

I'm sure a large percentage of these marriages do not work out, but most I'm sure do not come back and post about it.  I mainly post on 2G's, but I thought I would post something here since I used to have some good friends here & I was once a frequent poster on this board.

For those who were not around, I went to Cartagena in Sept 2000, after corresponding & talking with a Barranquillera for about 5 months.  I proposed to her on my second trip down there which was about a month after the first trip, and became engaged.  Clearly, this was way too quick, but at the time I rationalized it by saying I had really 'known her' for much longer & better, from phone conversations and daily emails.  She was 23, I was 32.  I didn't think the age difference was unreasonable & I also thought that these girls matured faster than their AW counterparts.  Where I ever got that idea I have no clue.  Looking back my impression is that she thought this whole thing was a fairy tale, or some sort of trip to Disneyland.  She was in love with her dream of marrying a faithful gringo, moving to the US, raising a family (while of course supporting the family in Colombia).  And I guess I lived out a dream too, marrying a Latina bombshell.  But the reality and pain of divorce trumps the euphoria of the hot young babe.

I went back down there two more times before going down to bring her back on the K-1 Visa this past August.  We were married Sept 22. I filed for divorce on Jan 29 and it was finalized a few days ago.  So it lasted a total of 4 months, and she had been here for 6 mos.

I would like to say that my wife had many good qualities, and will likely make someone happy down the road.  She was a very good 'hogarena' (homemaker), keeping the house clean & cooking meals all the time.  And I was most definately not without fault in this either.  We both entered into this thing with the best of intentions.  This is a very high stakes game with very high risks and very brutal consequences.  We threw our hat in the ring, gave it a shot, but came up short.  And the walk back to the locker room is brutal.

I knew that these women are special projects and therefore require alot of patience, time, money, effort, etc.  And I truly feel I gave her a great opportunity up here.  She had ESL classes at the CC, I bought her a car, she got to go home twice to see her family, blah blah blah.  But she basically refused to take root in the culture here, which put her emotional/social needs squarely on me.  And believe me, after awhile, that will wear you down...mentally and physically. And finally, I had to make the call that it was not the way I was gonna be able to live.  Nobody wants to go through a divorce, especially when its with a Latina that we bring to the US, it's very emotional.  But, I was overwhelmed, and my quality of life had deteriorated (and was getting worse) to the point I felt it best to end this thing now, and hopefully avoid more pain and suffering later.  

What went wrong?  Well, I thought I had done my homework.  I obviously didn't it well enough.  I really didn't even have a clue of what I was getting myself into.  I firmly believe that this endeavour will overwhelm a good number of the gringos who decide to follow this path to marriage.  Let's see.  Language is a key issue.  Yes, it is important to speak her language as that will enable you to better make your decisions during the courship.  However, in my opinion, the women's ability to learn English is the cornerstone for success in the adjustment process.  I'm not going to get into alot of details, but my wife did not ever learn English enough to construct basic sentences even after knowing me for 18 mos.  This was one red flag I really missed bad.  It is hard to tell which of these girls are disposed and motivated to learn English and adjust to our culture here.  It is a huge step for them and not all of the Colombianas are cut out for it.  Therefore, I think you must make sure they show you they are progressing in there English before you bring them here.  If they don't progress, no Visa...plain and simple.  Depression, homesickness, etc. will come into play once they become isolated in there little Spanish speaking world.  And in a town like Dallas, she can make it OK without learning English.  But it's just getting by, a person will never truly be able to grow here until they speak our language.

There are some general observations I can make about my situation, which of course is just one data point out there.  I married a woman from the lower class over there.  This is more significant than I had thought.  Hand in hand with that comes educational background.  The lower classes usually don't go to college, and believe me, you want one that is more educated.  

And for those of you who are interested in the mechanics of the divorce, I told her on a Tuesday evening, the divorce agreement was ready on Wed afternoon.  She was on a plane the next morning home to Colombia.  Sounds rough, and it was.  It was better for both of us that she go home.  Thankfully, her intentions were true and she was not looking to stay in the US.  She could have contested it, but I was more than fair with her...and a divorce attorney would not have done anything but rack up fees.  I did not have a prenupt, but would advise everyone to have one, or a LLP put in place.  However, I did keep all my 'seperate property' assets segregated from the 'community property', which is that which is accumulated after the marriage date.  I was completely fair with her, and gave her half of the amount of money I (we) saved after we were married.  It was a good chunk of change, I assure you.  

Anyway, I'm gonna stop here.  There is so much I can say about my experiences it could fill a f#cking book.  Would I ever consider bringing another bride up here?  My inclination is to say no.  The odds are against us in this process from the get go, and the liability cost to the gringo is big time.  I am amazed at how many South Americans live here in US already.  It's just too easy to meet some that are already here, have papers, and living in our society.  One thing I do know is that one red flag is one red flag to many.  

The End,
Mike

www.sparhard.com/colombia.htm

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

maybe at some other point in your life you might look south again.  

I remember when you told me awhile back that you were getting a divorce and at first I was a little shocked because I thought things were going well.  I knew that there were some pressures.  But now, I can pretty much understand how it happened.. I felt and still feel bad for you and Beatriz because I think that there was love between you.

Hopefully, you will not be too down on yourself or her and this is one of those hard lessons of life.  You sound pretty good.

I think guys have to look at what they want from a potential latina wife.  What qualities should she have?  An ability to learn English was a priority for you.

Although my wife is learning English, I am not pressing her.  I kind of realized that I cannot have this agenda laid out for her..  We are taking things slowly and working our way through so that we both stay happy in the relationship.  She communicates well with me on the things that bother her so we an address them.  She is not shy about letting me know how she feels, which I appreciate. I still think patience and kindness is the real key in a love relationship.

Anyway, hang in there guy.  Who knows what life holds for you down the road.  I still think that latinas are the best.  I knew after my first relationship with one that I would never look anywhere else.  It was a hard ending with her, the first one..  But I had nothing against her.  So I kept looking and was able to find one that I am really compatible with and we fell in love.  There is a certain amount of luck in all of this because normally, you are not going to have a great amount of time to get to know your potential wife..  That is why you almost have to go a little on what your gut tells you about this other person.

Thanks for posting this Mike because many times people will not discuss what happened and that takes courage..

Good luck..
Edge

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Hi Mike,

I do not know what to say.  I am very sorry about the outcome your marriage.  It really came as a shock to me.  Since you got married, you have not posted here that often.  I thought things were going great.  I can remember the time right after you married you had to cut a post short... LOL  Remember when she was taking a bath and you was worried she might flood your house... LOL, LOL.  

You, Hounddog and a number of others were here when I first arrived on the scene a little more than a year ago.  You guys posts really helped me to decide on choosing this method.  I took everything to heart.  Thanks for informing us about this unfortunate outcome.  I wish you the best.

This outcome has given me much to think about.  I do not think I am going to turn back now.  I am for the most part turned off by AW.  In addition, I am already corresponding with a Brazilian and a Peruvian females.  Both are showing an intense desire and effort in learning English.  The peruvian female just completed her 3rd month of English classes and understands (reads and writes) it well.  Her pronunciation is not so good.  Hopefully over time that should improve.  The Brazilian female just resently started learning English.  She is showing promise.  I speak neither Portuguese nor Spanish.  I will begin learning both languages very soon.  When I finally meet each ladies we should at least be on the same level.

Mike, for all that it is worth when you decide to get back in the saddle again, I hope you will give it another try in LA... whether it is Colombia or some other LA country.  Like you said, these things probably occur more often than is reported.  If some of the others that have gone through this were more forth coming maybe you could have avoided this outcome altogether.  However it is water under the bridge now.  This can be a learning experience.  I still believe LA is a better hunting ground then here.  Mike all divorces are tragic, but yours is a good one compared to some of the ones I have witnessed.  It was for the most part clean cut.  You have lost none of your assets.   Since the two of you had no children together, no custody battles was involved.  In a sense you were lucky on that end of the spectrum.  The both of you entered into this with good intentions.  The two of you had too many differences.

Take care man,

yc

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Hopefully you can put this behind you and get on with your life soon.  It's sounds like your handling it well.  Best of luck, and thanks for sharing your story with the PL crowd.

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Mike,
Thanks for posting your story.I knew this had happened but didn't know any of the details.We need reports when things don't work as well as when they do to put everything in to perspective.
What really went wrong is a little unclear to me.You mention that she was unwilling to adapt to this culture or learn english and that put a  burden on you to be meet her emotional/social needs.She was too dependent on you?This was difficult to handle?I don't quite understand,but sometimes you can just get a gut feeling that this is never going to work.You seemed to be very sincere going in to this so I will accept that you did what was right for you.
Being a young guy you probably have lots of other choices here.For older guys I still think latinas can be a good option to what we are able to get here.I personally would try it all over again if my marriage did not work.
Guys be warned,most all of these girls will go through a big depression when they come here.Most will learn little english untill they get here.Hopefully they will start a program to learn it here.There are lots of adjustment problems and the relationship better be strong to handle them.I wonder now if my wife hadn't beem able to make some adjustments after the first few months if we would be married.She was pretty unhappy at first untill she found  some latina girl friends.Actually if it had stayed the way it was the first 2 months I'm sure it would have ended within 6 months of so.Thankfully we were able to adapt.
Not only do I love my wife I like her as a person.I just wasn't able to call it off when it was bad.Sometimes things are still difficult.Sometimes I wonder if I made the right decision.
Mike I would just think it wasn't meant to be and move on,which you have.Thats simpler and cleaner when there is not enough mutual desire to keep it together.Sometimes it doesnt work.Sometimes you find the person is too different from what you expected.But the main thing you said that convinced me was that the quality of your life was going downhill fast.Thats not good.It was time to move on.
A couple other general comments.I think a lower class girl will be less inclined to learn english.Many upper class girls,not the ones we usually meet,already know english.Middle class girls may have studied some english.My wife had but didn't really make big progress untill she got here.My 11 year old step son is doing great with it.He talks to himself in english while playing his vidieo games.
Also,unless her family is well to do,you can count on sending money to help them.You kind of marry the whole family.The welfare of her family will be very high on your wifes priorities.
Thanks Mike,and I wish you well.

Pete

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Were there any difficulties with the divorce proceedings without her here? Did you have her sign papers before she left or?

-- Jeff S.

... in response to Quick question for you, posted by Jeff S on Apr 6, 2002

I had the agreement drawn up, translated, ready to sign before she was to leave.  That is crucial, you should not let them leave the US without them signing a divorce agreement.  If not, it could drag out for who knows how long, and could create problems that you can't imagine.

Mike

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Hey Mike,

I remember when you shared the news with me sometime ago. You handled one of life's worst situations with class then, & you're handling a bad situation with just as much class now. It's not easy sharing such private & emotional issues with the world to see. Mike you deserve the right woman in your life. Unfortunately, just as there are success, there are failures. Like I told you before, chill for bit, get your bearings back & get back out there.

Peace...Hoda

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

I, too, have followed your story and was pulling for you. You brought up something that I've been trying to figure out how to post without sounding elitist and snobbish. So many men think they'll find a poor, sweet little country girl and bring her to America to live a life of bliss, only to find out there's far more to it. There are enough adjustments with the cultural and language differences, throw in the transition from lower class, humble third world family and experience to middle class suburban America, and the differences are often enough to overwhelm both parties. Finding an educated person with enough education and worldly awareness to know how to adapt should be of prime importance.

Best of luck to you, Mike. I'm sure you'll  do well at whatever you choose.

- Jeff S.

... in response to Sorry to hear that Mike, posted by Jeff S on Apr 6, 2002

Everyone that is seriously engaged in this process should read this post over and over.  You really boiled it down into a few sentences.

The facts are is that for all practicle purposes, we can marry just about any type of woman we want down there.  So I think the biggest mistake gringos make is hopping on the first pretty girl that they meet.  I would make sure to take my time, date alot of women, from different social strata, to get an idea of what is 'normal' for these women. No reason why you should not be able to get the total package, looks and brains.

Take your time,
Mike

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Mike
Sorry to hear about your situation I was married on September 2nd in cali I was lucky enough to married to my translator that in my opinion is the most important thing we communicate good which is important she speaks about 65% english She just got a job with Mueller Industries translating their orders from puerto rico and mexico.That is very important she was working at a video store until now she finished 2nd on all the good job interviews.I think the way they progress on learning English will tell you how serious they are about you and about fitting in in the USA
Mike I have one question for you were you married in colombia or USA I have heard bad stories about the expenses of getting a divorce in Colombia? Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
                  My 2 cents,
                          Dave

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

I have followed your story from the beginning, here and on the two G's site. I have seen the highs, the lows and the end.

Thank you for your post which will serve as a sobering dose of reality for all of us about the possible pitfalls of the "latina dream". The truth is many work out and many fail, just like any relationship types between human beings.

Not everyone would have handled this as well as you have. You've shown great class and dignity in telling your story. Thanks for sharing your experience with us and good luck in the future.

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Mike I am so sorry to hear about your divorce. You have been a huge help and an inspiration for me.  I have been struggling with my intentions for looking for a Colombian wife. Lets be honest, most of these women just are not going to cut it here in the United States. They will have jobs no better than a cleaning lady. If they are not intelligent and have not shown the aggressiveness it takes to make it in the United States they are just another pretty face. I am strongly rethinking this whole Latin American experience. I think the romance, passion, and having a beautiful woman by your side is great, but at the end of the day when your pockets are empty, and bills are stacking up.....hmmmm she aint so pretty anymore. I will go to Colombia and other Latin American countries for a nice vacation, but the whole bring a wife back thing....I don't know. The majority of the women I have corresponded with have poor families, they want to send money back home. They want to bring family members to the United States. No way will I do that. I do not think they realize what it takes to make it here. Heck that is why the United States is the leader of the free world. We believe in education, hardwork, money, immediate family, and pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps.  I think the Latinas are too family oriented to where it stunts there growth. They have no experiences to draw on. They have a harder time to adapt. I can not understand for the life of me how a person from a Poor country can come here and not learn the language. That is ridiculous. I believe there work ethic is not up to par. I can understand not knowing how to drive, but eventually you learn. Some of these latinas are just plain DUMB. They don't have a clue and are no better than the airheads here. They get by on looks, and that only works for a little while. No substance. Zilch. Some of these ladies have the personalities of a ROCK. Yeah dancing Salsa is okay, but how many Salsa clubs do we all really go to? NONE. Remember guys we are the ones changing there lives for the better. They must be able to assimilate here. I am not speaking strictly Spanish in my house. Not going to happen. She either learns english or she will never be heard. I think I am off the Find a Latin wife in Colombia kick. I will go to Latin America and have fun, meet some gorgeous babes and that is it. I will date Latinas who already live here in the States. They know exactly how America works, and speak english. Mike I will be talking to you later. Stay strong, and remember plenty of Babes in Texas.....HOWL at the moon. Come on man your single again....TIME TO LET YOUR HAIR DOWN, LET YOUR FANGS SHOW, and GET BACK OUT THERE. Have a great Life.

... in response to Re: My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In..., posted by Fingaroll5 on Apr 6, 2002

Hey buddy do me a favor stay away from Colombia. I can't write my true feeling because my post will never make it on the board due to severe editing from the moderator. Truly stay away. I don't want you screwing up a place I enjoy. It's evident from you post when I read between the lines, you want to get laid in Colombia, and that's it. It's obvious from your writing which is void of any intelligence, why your still single. Try and learn something and contemplate why I think your a dick.

... in response to Re: My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In..., posted by Fingaroll5 on Apr 6, 2002

Fingaroll,
I think you are making generalizations here, however I also think you have raised some important issues that center on differences due economic class. As you state many of the women involved in the MOB scene are lower economic class women. If you were involved with a professional lady from Bogota, you would probably have a different perspective.

As pointed out in a post below, when you're poor an extended family is a form of economic self-help. Without a welfare system these folks have to depend on each other. Also remember you're dealing with a culture in which personal connections are very important. Thus family is very important for survival. If you "make it" you're supposed to help those who helped you.

You and I as middle class Americans also know there is a downside to all this strong family stuff. It chokes off individualism, risk taking, and the push for self improvement. Yet you would also probably admit that too many Americans are blinded by materialism and competition. With the result being high rates of divorce, high rates of drug use and other dysfunctionality.

While many women may be getting by on their looks, let's remember that for poorer women, that is their primary asset. While education is laudable, remember that in countries with high unemployment- Colombia, those with high birth rates-Nicaragua, competition for jobs is fierce.

Even those with education have to use their family connections to get a job. Also remember in these countries there is a strong class consciousness-- you hire for good jobs from your class, not necessarily somebody who is very ambitious and hard working.

While I believe in the importance of education and success, I am attracted to these ladies because I think they bring a balance to the equation. If I wanted a materialistic woman, who thinks raising children is done by daycare, who thinks that success is two BMW's in the garage and annual trips to Europe--I would be looking at Americans or Russian. I want someone who balances me and who places being a wife and mother above career.

I think Mike married a hogarena, when he would have been happier with an educated, more ambitious lady to match his class and lifestyle.

Best of luck to you in your search.

... in response to Generalizations, posted by NW Jim on Apr 6, 2002

"If you were involved with a professional lady from Bogota, you would probably have a different perspective."

Isn't that a bit of a generalization itself?  I married a professional woman from Cali.  Every one of her brothers and sisters is university educated and professional also.  Bogota isn't the only Colombian city with professionals.

I agree with your other points, especially about using family (and friends) to find work and the general tendency to hire based on relationship rather than on abilities in Colombia (and other Latin countries).  I think that's one of the things that makes our economy so much more vibrant and sucessful.  It was a bit of a shock to my wife that I couldn't use my position in the company I work for to get her a job.  I'm an engineering manager and she's an accountant.  I couldn't even hire an engineer I wanted without the cantidate first passing through the interview process with several senior engineers and impressing them as well as myself with his knowledge and energy.  Not only couldn't I hire someone who I had a personal relationship with without them going through the interview process, but I would not even push him/her through HR unless I thought it was a good thing for the company.  I will always make hiring decisions based on company benefit rather than on helping someone I like.  This is a really strange concept to many Latin people.

... in response to Re: Generalizations, posted by Patrick on Apr 7, 2002

Isn't that what the whole show was about? Years of Armando and his family hiring their relatives, cronies and grilfriends drove the company (country? humm, was THAT the point they were trying to make?) into bankruptcy and it took an ugly but QUALIFIED person to save it?

... in response to Re: My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In..., posted by Fingaroll5 on Apr 6, 2002

Fingaroll...

It sounds like you are struggling with more than your "intentions for looking for a Colombian wife".

The majority of the people in Colombia are struggling financially. Unless you have JUST realized that, it should be no surprise that most women have "poor families" and would "want to send money back home".

"I think the Latinas are too family oriented to where it stunts their growth"???

Are you high? The extended family support system is the means by which many Latinos and others are able to survive through their country's economically troubled times. Not to mention that the nurturing, caring nature of Latinas, that gringos are so drawn to, is born out of that same family system. -Your ignorance is mind boggling.

"Some of these latinas are just plain DUMB. They don't have a clue and are no better than the airheads here. They get by on looks, and that only works for a little while. No substance. Zilch. Some of these ladies have the personalities of a ROCK. Yeah dancing Salsa is okay, but how many Salsa clubs do we all really go to? NONE. Remember guys we are the ones changing there lives for the better."

You will have no chance of changing anyones life for the better...until YOU get a clue...or some substance.

You seem to think that Latinas are supposed to drop to their knees and kiss the ground that you walk on simply because you are from the United States. You want some gorgeous "babe" who is going to quickly English and other American customs/habits, cut all ties with her family and culture, in order to "maybe" have a life with you, someone that has little respect for her and her culture, and that she hardly knows?

-Not gonna happen....and if you find one that promises that she will, you better check her back for a fin, because she is setting you up for something.

Mike's situation doesn't have anything to do with your "issues", it just gave you an opportunity to show your @ss.

"Let your fangs show"??? -Man, you need some serious help.

-Tai

... in response to Re: Re: Fingaroll...aka..Archie Bunker, posted by Tai on Apr 6, 2002

Great post Tai.

This guy sounds like a candidate fo bigot of the year.

... in response to Re: Re: Fingaroll...aka..Archie Bunker, posted by Tai on Apr 6, 2002

Hey Jerk Wad. I never said I was against the family. I said that you can become too family needy to where it stunts a persons ability to grow. Adapt to changes. Look Fork Face, no one is Archie Bunker, but I can be Mike Tyson and take a bite out of your ARSE. So keep talkin

... in response to The Truth Hurts, posted by Fingaroll5 on Apr 6, 2002

..if it dropped out of your ARSE with the rest of your perspectives.

And save the WOOF tickets for your "howl at the moon, let your fangs show" buddies.

With Mike Tyson as your idol, that offers quite a bit of insight about your mindset(and in your case I use "mind" very loosely)...as if it wasn't already obvious enough.

What was it that stunted your ability to grow? Was it the "immediate family" system you espouse, or the Crack that you apparently smoked prior to posting?

-Tai

... in response to Re: My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In..., posted by Fingaroll5 on Apr 6, 2002

Fin5 that was a excellent post. i think alot of guys on this board and elsewhere feel exactly that way.

... in response to Re: My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In..., posted by Fingaroll5 on Apr 6, 2002

Some of you who claim to want to marry a Latina REALLY SHOULD reconsider your plans. It seems some of the materialistic thinking of AW that you despise, you are guilty of yourselves.
 
 Here's one person saying "they want to send money back home, they want to bring family members here. No way will I do that."

 In case it hasn't dawned on you, the folks that she leaves behind in SA in order to live with you are YOUR new FAMILY MEMBERS. If you never considered she might like for some of them to be able to live here someday, you SHOULD forget about marrying a Latina from a poor country, or at least you better discuss that with her at length before you marry. I don't mean ALL her family, but someday one or two people in YOUR family down there will probably be able to come here to live/work based on your marriage to her. I can't think of a better gift to her family than to help them overcome the lack of opportunity that they have in SA. Remember, your marriage to a Latina will affect both your families beyond the present generation. My niece and nephew in Peru are 4 and 3 yrs old, we are making sure they are starting to learn English now, my wife helps pay the cost of private school for them. With the proper education and a little help from us, they should have no trouble being ready to live and work here someday if they decide they want to.

 If you think that sending money to her family is a problem, you SHOULD forget about marrying a Latina from a poor country. It's very likely that the Latina you marry was the main income earner for her family and she will still be needed by her family in that respect. I think it is unlikely that you will find a Latina that doesn't want/need to help her family with financial matters, since she will be making more money here, even if she is a "cleaning lady".

 My wife was college educated, fluent in English, and much more computer savvy than me before we ever met. She had visited the US before we met, there wasn't really much culture shock for her. but marriage has still been a challenge and yes, has required COMPROMISE from time to time. I have given up a few things I used to do in order to spend more time with her. When she comes here, you will probably be all she has for awhile, and yes it will make you feel a little pressure like JunFan said.

 In spite of the challenges/difficulties, my marriage is great and I can't ever imagine an American women being as loving, supportive, unselfish, and loyal as my wife. She has never once acted like she thought the grass might be greener somewhere else, I don't think she ever will.

 A good marriage to a beautiful Latina IS worth the effort, but you don't marry'em and then forget about 'em and continue living your selfish single lifestyle.

... in response to Re: Re: Further reality check might be i..., posted by Red Clay on Apr 6, 2002

..

... in response to Re: Re: Further reality check might be i..., posted by Red Clay on Apr 6, 2002

Red Clay, you are right on! if you marry a latina from a poor country you are marrying the family.the girl i almost married in cali said to me once in a phone conversation the following:
"when i come to america i want to work , and the money i earn from my job i want to send to my mother in cali" then two minutes later she said. "i want you to adopt my son a soon as possible"
she hadn't even gotton her passport yet and already she was laying the law down ( money to mother and adopt kid)!

... in response to Re: My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In..., posted by Fingaroll5 on Apr 6, 2002

Great Post!!  I love it.  Someone takes the gloves off and tells it like it is.

I by no means want to paint the Colombians with a broad brush, but what FingaRoll says is most definately applicable to women in the lower classes.  Very well said.  No BS, just the cold hard truth that most gringos do not want to see because it messes up 'the dream'.

Nothing wrong with setting your sites on a pretty women, just remember, there are plenty of pretty women that are smart and educated.  And I definately think that there is a huge difference in work ethic.  Look, we will be putting a man on Mars while they will still be hauling mangos around the streets in donkey pulled carts.

Mike

... in response to Well Said, posted by JunFan on Apr 6, 2002

Mike,

Did you have arguments with your wife about not learning Spanish.  I'm curious how she responded when you called her on it.  And from the sound of your posts, I'm sure you didn't let it slide without discussion.  My wife has been here for 2 months and goes to English class 3 hours a day.  She is speaking English to me.  I speak Spanish and English to her.  I could not get her to speak English in Colombia at all...too busy, this or that.  But now she is really coming along nicely.  I definately worried about this issue before she started getting it.

Also, it seems like to dropped alot of cash, and she wasn't sensitive toward your spending.  That really has to piss you off a little...  A girl that isn't appreciative has to go, simple as that.  Looking back, do you think you threw too much cash around in the beginning.  Could you have handled the materialism thing better.

Hope you are doing OK,
Wayne

... in response to Well Said, posted by JunFan on Apr 6, 2002

Yea,

And while they are hauling mangos around in carts, we developed nuclear weapons to incinerate the entire earth without the intelligence to even keep the information secure enough so that other countries don't get it.

Technology without common sense.

My vote is for more mango hauling, and less technology.

Oh, and by the way penicillin was developed by a Colombian in colombia.

These are not stupid people.

Wayne

... in response to Mango hauling / Well said ?, posted by Wayne on Apr 8, 2002

penicillian was discovered in 1928 in London by Alexander Fleming.

... in response to Re: Mango hauling / Well said ?, posted by chevy on Apr 8, 2002

Chevy, first of all great car, second of all I believe Wayne was alluding to Dr.Pattaroyo's DISCOVERY of a vaccine to cure and prevent malaria. Dr.Pattoroy a COLOMBIAN doctor developed this vaccine and OFFERED FREE of charge to the world, everyone is benefiting from this except of course the U.S. government who is trying to patent and STEAL this amazing medical breakthrough and PATENT it......hmmmmmm I smell greedy a-holes trying to profit from something that surely helps us all, ALL of us---COLMAN

... in response to Re: Re: Mango hauling / Well said ?, posted by colman on Apr 8, 2002

Absolutely I agree. American business is greedy and arrogant. More discoveries have come from people we consider ignorant, than have come from americans.
 Example: I was in Cuzco. These massive stones weighing
tons fit together so well that you can not slip a piece of paper between them. they are over 1000 years old. They do not know to this day how they did it. the spanish have their buildings(stone) in cuzco also, there is no comparison. The incas were far superior builders.
 I saw a special on PBS about this. they tried to recreate the technique of the incas and failed. It is truly amazing to see considering the size and weight of the stones. I do not look down on any nation. Brilliant people reside in all of them. Chevy is a nice car. A 1965 corvette would make me smile. Or a 1968 charger.

... in response to Well Said, posted by JunFan on Apr 6, 2002

Junfan, sorry to hear about your divorce. However I do agree with Red Clay about marrying a Latina whom is the bread winner or at least plays a significant role in the family's finances. "We will be putting a man on Mars while "they" still be hauling mangos around the streets in donkey pulled carts." With this qoute I am amazed that your marriage lasted as long as it did. So Mike, since you like no BS, just the cold hard truth, I'll take a stab at it. Well since you probably did not learn her native tongue its obvious that you were not compatible with each other from the start. I, however am a Colombian-American whom speaks Enlish and Spanish fluently and would never have a problem marrying a Latina whom does not know English. Yes, eventually she would learn it, obviously to get adjusted to this country. I would just have more patience and understand her more. The aspect of her trying to help her family out--I utterly understand and would agree on COMPROMISES.  It seems to me the whole attitude and pripority placed on $$$$$ is pathetic and sad. I love my heritage and being born in the U.S. fortifies my beliefs about life, marriage, money....I know I am and will be the cream of the crop in Colombia----I mean for pete's sake, I have Colombian parents, college-educated, young, open-minded, and fluent in Spanish--and last but not least, I have a heart.  Being born in the U.S. makes me an American citizen, but if I go to Europe, Asia, or Latin America, I will most likely not have the stigma of being a self-centered, greedy, snobbish idiot. There is your no BS bro,if it had been me I would probably still be married and starting a family---D@mn!!!have not been to Colombia in a couple of years, d@mn thanks Mike, I think I will be going sooner than I thought---Colman

... in response to Re: Well Said, posted by colman on Apr 6, 2002

You may be Colombian-American and willing to accept a woman who never integrates into our culture, but I think the vast majority of men living in this country, even if they are bi-cultural and have assimilated, would want their wife to take part in all of their culture and not confine herself to that portion of it in which she feels comfortable.  Would you limit your friends after marriage to only those who are fluent in Spanish?  If you don't, then those of your friends who aren't fluent in Spanish will not have much a relationship with your wife.

I think Mike was completely justified in his decision and I personally would have made the same in his circumstances.  I wouldn't want a wife who never became part of ALL of my life.  Being married is a partnership and it sounds like this particular relationship was one of dependency.  While I do think men should learn Spanish if they marry a Latin woman, I absolutely think anyone immigrating here should learn English, and learn it well.  They will never have a full life here without doing so, and expecting a man who marries such a lady to limit his life to her culture while living here is simply absurd.

... in response to Mal dicho, posted by Patrick on Apr 7, 2002

Dear Patrick, you are paraphrasing what I said---I NEVER said I was willing to accept a Latina who is not willing to assimilate to our culture. On the contrary, its common sense that first and foremost of a person emigrating to another country is that person should EVENTUALLY learn the language of such country. Bascically my point still stands; being fluent in Spanish allows me greater patience and magnifies understanding     A Latina's perspective....um HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT---people seeking Latinas should also learn her language---Colman

... in response to Mal dicho, posted by Patrick on Apr 7, 2002

I've said it before... and will keep saying it...

Any woman who wants to live ina sub-culture will not make a good wife, and will not be content in America...

Period.

It's sad that it takes a divorce to drive home what should be obvious...

... in response to Re: Mal dicho, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 8, 2002

Well said.

... in response to Mal dicho, posted by Patrick on Apr 7, 2002

Yea, it's simply Absurd for a Lady to expect her Hubby to limit his life to her culture. Btw, I posted on Asian board asking your help setting up a Computer. greg

... in response to Mal dicho, posted by Patrick on Apr 7, 2002

I'm going to agree with Partick on the assimilate business, i.e. learn English and become part of the US culture. To be fair, it could take a while, but it won't be too hard to tell if she really is TRYING.

As I have posted before to answer some of the guys who ask "aren't there a lot of beautiful Mexican women in Dallas?" Yes, there are, unfortunity, too many of them think they are simply in a "colony" of Mexico, albeit a colony with better employment opportunities (and de-facto that's what a lot of Dallas is)....most likely, these are not the women you want. This is also the major item that p sses off the people you hear complaining about "our country is being overrun with immigrants who take our GOOD stuff but refuse to assimlate"
-----------------------change mode--------------------------------
I'm going to agree with Red Clay's earlier post about sending money home. Many of these women ARE a siginificant part of a family's income, helpling to support aged parents and/or younger siblings. To remove the woman's income from the family could cause significant harm to those remaining behind.

The extreems of this range from "Our daughter married a gringo! We won the Lottery" to "She's gone, now we can't pay the rent". I would hope that all of us would consider our indivual lady's situation carefully and avoid either extreeme. Be FAIR, be generous, but you don't have to be a FOOL. This issuse is something that the two of you MUST have an understanding on before "taking the plunge".

... in response to Re: Well Said, posted by colman on Apr 6, 2002

I'd like to see you try to say that to my face.  Think you could finish the sentence?  My money says no.

http://www.sparhard.com/me.htm

here I am baby.

... in response to Re: Re: Well Said, posted by JunFan on Apr 7, 2002

Junfan, listen, I admit sometimes my Latin pride comes out at bad moments but I still disagree with most of your points. For instance you are taking a "fighting" agressive attitude with me--typical demeanor of a self-centered, snobbish attitude that gives reason for the whole world to hate us. You say you speak 95% better Spanish than most people here in this board, well then if thats true than most people on this board are probably limited in Spanish. Also a couple months ago YOU invited me to some renegade, vigilante, police forum to "dog" out somebody who was expressing his opinion, of wish I declined. To me, this breeds hypocritical behavior. Again, typical "ugly" american idiosyncrancies. Also, your failed marriaged should be a wake-up call for those U.S. tourist-dumb-@sses whom think they can go anywhere in the world and get laid. I admit this is true but I dont want to be a part of it. For those of you whom are reading this post, I hope you dont bring your "ugly american" attitude to Latin America (you know who you are) because it can be a costly mistake, both emotional and financial. Also--you have experienced a culture shock with your ex-wife just like she experienced one here.  I am DEFINITELY sure she was SHOCKED to learn that many elderly parents are kicked-off to so called "nursing homes"(eupheism for old-farts jail) or that we live in the richest country in the world but about 1/3 of U.S. dont have reliable insurance. Racism against blacks and Latinos IS VERY prevalent here--and for you hillbillies that say "if you dont like it go back to where you come from"----You losers are the biggest IDIOTS in the world---why??--because we fortunately live in a country where WE can express our dissappointment of the government. Unfortunately we dont because we are to busy consuming everything in sight---we complain about terrorist but we as a people are IDIOTS--because we are flying 3x5 inch flags in our SUV"S(bigger than a house--instead we dont say f' off to the drug called "petroleum" and drive very efficient, cars.  I know, Junfan--you look at me as a non-american--but quite the contrary my friend, I love the U.S. and support its people. I have noticed that many people in the U.S. that have ancestors from Hungary, Russia, Germany, Sweden, have not instilled the "old" country culture in them, and within time have lost the language, customs, etc....on the other hand many Latinos whom come here instill the old "mother" country language, cutom without jeopardizing English and U.S. assimilation. I dont know why so many Americans feel theaten when they hear somebody speank Spanish--well d@mn it if somebody speaks to me in Spanish I will respond in it....lol sorry If I have open up a pandoras box of controversial topics--but once I get going, I can't stop...lol--must be that Latin/Colombian blood--anyway and replies will be welcome from anybody--Isn't anybody here from Chicago?-----COLMAN

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Well Said, posted by colman on Apr 8, 2002

After your 20 minute anti-American rant, you surely must be miserable here. Sounds like you really would be happier living elsewhere in a place where American- style opportunity doesn't exist and nobody can afford an evil SUV. Be sure to pick a place where snobbish Americans don't travel to on vacation, and you'll be fine.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Said, posted by Red Clay on Apr 9, 2002

lol

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Well Said, posted by colman on Apr 8, 2002

Sounds like a bunch of bush league jibberish.

I would imagine that the majority of gringos on this board are more interested in the actual accounts, rather than your interpretation and judgement of something you really know very little about.  

I had a very emotional relationship with this woman for 20 mos., all in.  How you are qualified to make any sort of judgement is beyond me.  

This is the exact Latina style hot head behavior that I divorced, only it's being done by a male.  We've all heard it before: confrontational, avoids responsibility, sharp tongued, short-tempered, blame placing, etc.

... in response to Re: Well Said, posted by colman on Apr 6, 2002

I'm not gonna go round with you....

But I am fluent in spanish...Don't assume anything...I speak better spanish than 95% of the people on this board.

... in response to Re: Well Said, posted by colman on Apr 6, 2002

Oh Please give me a break. Your lucky your not standing in front of Mike when you say those things. I think he's got a hand-trick he would like to show you....Oh but you would be DEAD before you hit the ground. Okay here we go with the greedy arrogant American B.S. Look buddy, She had the opportunity of a lifetime...It aint coming her way again. Why do people persist about this helping the family stuff. No one has a problem with helping the family. The last I checked I think we all have family. No one has a problem with helping out family, BUT NOT BEING A AUTOMATIC CASH COW FOR THEM. It costs money to live in the U.S. I don't think any of us are millionares. We do what we can. If I am married to a Latina, my first responsiblity as a husband is to provide support for my wife and kids. The parents come secondary. Nothing wrong with helping, but you must be able to help financially. If my bills are due, and my family needs something. Sending money will have to wait, until my important family matters are taken care of. You can't support two families on one income, and live here in the United States, Unless your rich like that.   Patience I think Mike had plenty of it. Your missing the point Americans like to see results. We want to see improvement. We want a BANG for our BUCK. I do not think he was being unreasonable to want her to learn English. This to me shows she has an aptitude to learn. Excuse me if Im wrong but don't the young ladies want to come "HERE in the U.S." to live? Patience, Mike had plenty of it. Over a whole years worth, and she could not string two darn English sentences together. Who you crapping? America is not about patience, we are about results. Mike provided her the opportunity for life improvement. She was lazy and did not show the kind of initiative it takes. Look these are adults were dealing with. What about Mike, he had to learn Salsa, Spanish, and something about her culture. He studied and was able to step into her world, and form a relationship with her....I bet it did not take him that long. What you are saying is Crap. You are Colombian American, DUH....you already have a foot in the door.

... in response to Re: Re: Well Said, posted by Fingaroll5 on Apr 6, 2002

Right on bro...

thanks for watching my six.

we need to talk Finga

junfan68@yahoo

... in response to Re: Well Said, posted by colman on Apr 6, 2002

n/t

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Very sorry to hear this sad news.  I wish you the best in recovering from your experience.  Also, thank you for sharing this sobering post so we can all give our own situations some thought.

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

JunFan,
  So sorry to hear this. I wonder if you think that "using" more of the K-1 90 day period to get to know her better would have made a difference in your case, that is, being able to see it wasn't going to work before you actually tied the knot.
  I hate to say it because you have always come across as a good guy, but some of the short time frames you described [4 months married, two days between announcing divorce and her departure]will raise questions of your commitment in the first place. Even in the roughest times of my engagement/marriage so far, I can't imagine "telling her" it's over and her being gone back to SA two days later. It sounds a little like you expected too much from her too soon in regards to her ability to acclimate and become more "maintanence free". Carmen and I have been married 1 year, have been living together for a total of about a year and a half. Her English is almost perfect, she studied it in college before we ever met. She also already knew how to drive, and she has always thought that it was strange for Latin people to come here and not attempt to become a part of our culture. In spite of all these "advantages", we still have had some days when we wondered if we had done the right thing by getting married. Sometimes I feel like a babysitter and I'm sure that sometimes she feels frustrated too, but I believe we both were aware that this type of marriage requires ALOT of patience to work, we never thought that things would be on cruise control after a few months of getting used to each other.

 One guy on here who had it rough at first but didn't bail is Pete. I really admire his efforts to do whatever it took to make it work and now his situation is much improved after some counseling and help in communicating, etc.

 I know it ain't easy to tell your story on here, I appreciate your candor and hope you don't take my observations as bashing. I really am sorry it ended for you two, and would hope that all guys on here would think seriously about your experience as they look for a Latina mate.
 Good luck and please post in the future if you feel up to it.
 -Dave

... in response to Re: My Marriage -Shocked and saddened, posted by Red Clay on Apr 6, 2002

Red,
First of all I want to make sure people knew that I was committed to this thing.  Heck, I was in up to the elbow for a full year before she got here.  I was paying for English classes down there, driving classes down there, sending money to her when she became unemployed (funny how that happened right after meeting me).  I threw an engagement reception at the Hotel Prado in Barranquilla so that her family, hosting about 50 people and it was first class.  

I fully realize it is impossible for someone to adjust to a new culture in 4 mos.  I failed long before this.  It was then too late.  I failed back when she showed me no progression in her English during the year prior to her arrival on the K-1. If I had to do over again, I would have taken more time and insisted she have some English under her belt as a condition for her coming to the USA.  It's hard to imagine how a poor Colombian girl can have one year to prepare herself for the opportunity of her (and her family's) lifetime.  For one to show complete apathy towards her 'mental game' is either defiant, lazy or stupid.  

I just thought I would respond to a couple of the very good points you brought up:

"I can't imagine "telling her" it's over and her being gone back to SA two days later"

~~~Yep, that was no fun, for either of us.  It was hands down the worst 36 hours of my life, and hers I'm sure.  But, it was best that she get back to her family as fast as possible.  No sense in dragging out the agony.  She would have been completely alone living in Dallas and emotionally unstable so it was the best thing.  A difficult thing, even appearing ruthless...but it was best to get out an axe and hack the arm off in one blow rather than saw it off with a hacksaw.

"One guy on here who had it rough at first but didn't bail is Pete."

~~~Good for Pete. Everyone has to make his own call.  He made his and is looking real good.  Time will tell how my decisions will turn out.

"I wonder if you think that "using" more of the K-1 90 day period to get to know her better would have made a difference in your case"

~~~Absolutely.  In fact, if I was doing it again, I would certainly put the woman on notice that by virtue of her setting foot on US soil does NOT necessarily mean we will get married.  I would emphasize that it is to see if the two are 'compatible'.

Mike

... in response to Re: Re: My Marriage -Shocked and saddene..., posted by JunFan on Apr 6, 2002

JunFan Mike,
  My above post entitlted "Further Reality Check" was directed toward those here who seem to be unaware of the compromise and effort it will take in the MOB process, not toward you. The only thing that surpried me a little about your situation was the quick time frame of some of the events, but my guess is she was probably ready to head back home ASAP if things had been as rough as you say. You're right, no need to prolong the inevitable if it's really over.
  I do know that you put alot into your engagement, money, time, multiple visits to SA. I know you did your homework, and if you tell us that you honestly did your best, I believe you.
  My marriage is so good so far, I would still recommend it to anyone who is willing to put in the effort. I still think you can find a Latina that is a good match for you, if you still want to try.
  Good luck my friend-

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Thanks for the post. I'm sorry it didn't work out and it must have been tough to write about. The transition process is what scares me most about this endeavour because it is such a huge change, and I wonder how many of these ladies really know what they are in for.

Ross

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Mike,

Thank you for posting your experience.  I have found therapy in posting my experiences with my Russian wife of 3 years.  The year after my divorce with my Russian wife was the absolute worse year of my life.  I really felt crazy at times.  I've been through what you are going through, and it really sucks.  Try to be thankful you didn't invest any more time then you did.  I invested 3 years into my Russian wife, and she didn't go back.  She is driving around in the new car that I bought her.  It's taken me a while to get used to the idea that I got really worked over by her.

But there is light at the end of the tunnel.  I suspect if you are like me, you will try a few dates with American women, and then start looking south once again.  The alternative just isn't that attractive.

My Russian wife was alot of work from day 1.  My Colombian wife that I have been with non-stop for almost 4 months has never been a problem.  It has felt right from day one.  It either fits, or it doesn't.  The test of time is going to tell, and it is still early for me, but it is totally different then the crash and burn that was imminent with Russian snow princess.

I believe that when we marry these girls after not knowing them long, there really is some luck involved.  The luck just wasn't on your side the day you met her.\

Take care of yourself.

Wishing you much happiness,
Wayne

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

(to paraphrase some of what you said)
1) Sometimes you both try, but it just doesn't work out
2) It was not entirely her fault
2) She has many good qualities

Sorry it didn't work out, but it took courage to make this post, both to admit it didn't work and to not just say "another  %^(*#$  scamming  b&^%h" like SOME guys would.

This makes you a real gentleman in my book.

... in response to My Marriage To A Colombiana Ended In Div..., posted by JunFan on Apr 5, 2002

Good info, tough story.

How much effort to learn english, and do they have the mental capability.  Those are critical, thanks for the advice.

You should try other cities , each city in Colombia is country unto its own.