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Title: The "dark side" Post by: Cali vet on February 23, 2002, 05:00:00 AM I have an impression from comments I've heard elsewhere that there is a fairly high percentage of incidents where I guy has married a colombiana only to have her take off as soon as she gets the residency card or sooner and melt into Miami or some other large latino community staying illegaly or trying to legalize her status. I know personally of two such cases and have heard third party accounts of many more however the subject never seems to come up on the board. I even heard of a girl dissapearing into the crowd upon arrivel in Miami on a fiance visa but that may be urban legend. No doubt it would be a painfull subject for anyone whose had the experience but it seems to me that regarding women who've actually set foot on our shores we only hear the "I'm happily married and my wife is learning to drive/English" etc. stories. Any comments on the "dark side" of the process?
Title: Re: The "dark side" Post by: FenixRises on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to The "dark side", posted by Cali vet on Feb 23, 2002
Hi all, While one or more of us may know, first hand, a guy who was "burned", there never are "innocent" people involved in a relationship that doesn't work, for whatever reason. Many guys reading this and other information sources express their concern about "red flags". What are they? What are the warning signs? I suggest first and foremost looking in the mirror before you start this process, to see how many "red flags" you are waving. In a year or two or more I will know whether my personal "red flag" management has worked. So far it seems to be operating quite well. Fred Title: A good reminder. Post by: HappyInBrazil on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: The "dark side", posted by FenixRises on Feb 25, 2002
Just like in your profile, good advice for someone starting the process. "Research, ask questions, clean out your emotional and psychological closets then go." Also, you mention in there you will get married January 2002. Did you? Congratulations. Did she come on a fiancee visa or will you go there marry and direct consular file or return then file a spousal visa? Title: Re: A good reminder. Post by: FenixRises on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to A good reminder., posted by HappyInBrazil on Feb 25, 2002
HIB, We were married on Jan 11th. We did the DCF in Bogota. Everything went very smoothly through the entire process. Thanks Fred Title: Questions about DCF Post by: HappyInBrazil on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: A good reminder., posted by FenixRises on Feb 25, 2002
Did you get your visa under the new LIFE act legislation? We have that coming up, and if you have any advice or can give some idea of the timeline to expect it would be much appreciated. Thanks! Title: Re: Questions about DCF Post by: FenixRises on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Questions about DCF, posted by HappyInBrazil on Feb 26, 2002
HIB, I do not know if the visa was under the "Life" act. From what I understand there was a change in the procedure that started on Jan 22? Overall the entire process was very simple. The embassy representative stated quite clearly at the first appointment that the use of a lawyer is neither recommended nor needed. I found this to be true and did not use a lawyer for any of the process. I think the whole process has been streamlined compared to what I have read about in the past. First you need to get a "Marriage Visa" from the Colombian embassy. Hopefully there is one near where you live, as you must appear in person to apply for the visa. The Colombian embassy will send a fax to you or mail you a paper that tells you what documentation is required. I was able to get the marriage visa in one trip to the embassy in Los Angeles and did not have to pay anything for the visa. Then you must have a civil marriage. You need a Colombian notarized and registered civil marriage certificate. The notary who performed our wedding made us about 5 copies of the certificate, all stamped and legal. You need this document when you file the alien petition. You must make the first trip to the US embassy in Bogota to file the petition for an alien relative(s). There is a $110 filing fee for each person for whom you file a petition. Also I believe that the embassy only accepts petitions on Mondays and Tuesdays. You go a little before 1 PM. This first visit only takes a short time. It is a good idea to schedule the needed doctor visit for the day after you file but if possible make the appointment for the doctor before you arrive in Bogota. This appointment should be early in the morning. She also needs to go to the laboratory for a blood test before 10 AM, no appointment needed for the lab. She can do this after the initial doctor visit. She must return to the doctor's office later in the afternoon with the sealed results from the lab. There are only two doctors and one laboratory approved by the embassy. It is also a very good idea to have your novia's vaccinations up to date. The vaccinations are inexpensive in Colombia. You do not need to be present for the second appointment, although your novia will probably appreciate your being there. We went to the second appointment, which always starts at 7 AM. The embassy did the entire procedure one step at a time for all the people who where present. The day we went there were about 20 people at the embassy. It took until about 1 PM for all the people to be processed. At this time there is an additional filling fee of $260 and the visa stamp fee $65, total $325. No $100 bills in US currency. I used all $20 bills that I brought from the states. The bills need to be in good condition but not necessarily new. This is also true for the first filling fee. About 1 PM her Colombian passport with visa stamp was returned to her. After that she was free to travel to the states anytime within the next 6 months. That's it in a nut shell. Fred Title: Thanks! n/t Post by: HappyInBrazil on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM Title: Re: Re: Fred, one question. Post by: Tai on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Questions about DCF, posted by FenixRises on Feb 26, 2002
Fred, You say that the Embassy sends a fax or mails a paper that tells what documentation is required. Specifically, how many years worth of tax returns do you need to bring with you? There have been reports posted here saying 3 years, and others say 5. What was your experience? -Tai Title: Re: Re: Re: Fred, one question. Post by: FenixRises on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Fred, one question., posted by Tai on Feb 26, 2002
Tai, For the US Embassy you need 3 years of tax returns and 3 years W-2's. If you have the 3 years of W-2's you do not necessarily need a notarized letter from your employer but I got one anyway. This is for the US embassy. The same is true of the Colombian embassy but DO HAVE the notarized employer letter. Also you need to meet or exceed the Federal poverty guidelines. I suspect most guys can do that. When I filed it was about $24,000 US per year income for 3 people. The amount varies depending on the number of dependants. Fred Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Fred. n/t Post by: Tai on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM Title: NYC Embassy.... Post by: Hoda on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: Fred, one question., posted by FenixRises on Feb 26, 2002
didn't ask for any financial info at all!!!! What the hell is going on? Title: Re: Re: Re: Fred, one question. Post by: Wayne on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Fred, one question., posted by Tai on Feb 26, 2002
3 years. And they never looked at my bank statements, or most of the other documents that I painstakingly prepared. Wayne Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks Wayne. n/t Post by: Tai on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM Title: Wayne, did you have to pay for your marriage visa? Post by: Hoda on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: Fred, one question., posted by Wayne on Feb 26, 2002
They're asking $175 in NYC... They must think we're made of money...LMAO! BTW, what over doc's did they ask you for? Or shall I say, what other docs did they request, but didn't examine? Thanks in advance! Hoda Title: Re: Wayne, did you have to pay for your marriage visa? Post by: Wayne on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Wayne, did you have to pay for your marr..., posted by Hoda on Feb 26, 2002
What is a marriage Visa? I paid an immigration lawyer/notario 900.00 to do the whole deal. I showed up on Fri. night late with my documents. Birth Cert. Divorce Decree and they married me in a typical traditional civil wedding on Sun. That's two days. I met with the lawyer on Sat. and the Notario slam dunked it on Sun. The Lawyer worked closely with my wife to make sure her ducks were in order, and she went over my paperwork. 900.00 isn't exactly cheap but I didn't have to worry about anything. It was easy and stress free. I've heard of guys trying to save money and stressing every step of the way. I hate documents and I'll pay to avoid hassels every time. At the embassy, they just looked at my tax returns and took the affidavit of support. They didn't look at my bank statements or business license or anything. I was present at the interview after 3 glorius weeks in San Andreas, and they didn't even interview us at all. There were no questions what so ever. They took the paperwork, smiled and gave us the visa after we had lunch. I don't understand all the ins and outs of all this paperwork, (and honestly I don't care) and I am sure there are different ways to pull this off, but it sounds like you guys going to the embassy to get marriage visas are going to unnecesary work. I did the whole thing down there, and it was really nothing. By the way, my wife's green card came in 2 weeks. With my Russian wife, it took 3 years, and by coincidence, the actual card arrived in the mail the same day as my divorce was final. 2 1/2 months of almost non-stop time with my wife now, and it is truly a trouble free life without conflicts or hassels. I truly believe the secret to all of this, is marry a "giver" not a "taker". Wayne Title: Re: Re: Wayne, did you have to pay for your marriage visa? Post by: FenixRises on February 28, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Wayne, did you have to pay for your ..., posted by Wayne on Feb 26, 2002
Hi Wayne, I have heard that the need for a marriage visa depends upon the Colombian notary. Some want the marriage visa some don't. From what I understand, to be strickly legal a marriage visa is required. The equivalence going the other way is the K-1 fiance visa. It just shows that the wheels of bureacracy grind in wierd directions. Fred Title: Three weeks in San Andres? Post by: Cali vet on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Wayne, did you have to pay for your ..., posted by Wayne on Feb 26, 2002
Wayne you spent three weeks on San Andres?! What on earth did you do? I heard it's very boring after about four days. I guess you could go scuba diving every day but...? Title: Re: Three weeks in San Andres? Post by: Wayne on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Three weeks in San Andres?, posted by Cali vet on Feb 27, 2002
I knew from the beginning that I wanted to stay with my wife while we waited for the second interview. Because we went to the Embassy after a holiday, we didn't get the 2nd interview for over 3 weeks. This was a real shock considering I own my own business, and me being gone that long was putting too much pressure on my staff. Also, I had been gone for a month to Colombia 2 weeks prior when I met my wife. So basically 2 months away from my business was scary to say the least. We knew we were going to have to sit around in Bogota, Cali or some other place for a few weeks waiting so we decided to just head on over to San Andreas to sit around. You're paying a nightly fee for your hotel and for food anyway no matter where you are, so you may as well be in a beautiful place. I have hear San Andreas described as kind of desolate on this board. I didn't see it that way at all. There are many hotels, live music every night, many water sports and hiking. Since I own a watersport related business, I am right at home in this environment, and it is just like my normal life. We would go windsurfing, snorkelling, sailing, or rent a scooter to ride around during the day, and at night we would go listen to live music and walk on the beach in the moon light. With 80 degree temp and nice breezes at night, it is an experience you will have to try to understand. This time together with my Colombian wife before we came to the states was very important, and we will never forget it. We really got to know each other well, and by the time we got off the plane together in the states, life was well...just kind of a normal married couple. If you have the time, I would reccomend staying with your wife and heading off to some vacation spot for your honeymoon. Wayne Title: Re: Re: Three weeks in San Andres? Ugh... Post by: Cali vet on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Three weeks in San Andres?, posted by Wayne on Feb 27, 2002
OK, thanks for the explanation. I ask because I plan to take my novia somewhere in April. I'd like to take her to both coasts during her vacation and I love the jungle trails and beach at Bahia Solano but I'm recognized there and that might not sit well with her. So we'll go to Parque Tayrona and I guess to San Andres. I found Negril and Cancun very boring that's why I've been sort of avoiding San Andres. Each to his own. However I've never been and she hasn't either so it fits the bill. Title: Hold up!!!! Did you say, Novia? Post by: Hoda on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Three weeks in San Andres? Ugh....., posted by Cali vet on Feb 27, 2002
Did I miss that post? Please tell me when & where to find it. C'mon CV, give it up... Title: Re: Hold up!!!! Did you say, Novia? Well... Post by: Cali vet on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Hold up!!!! Did you say, Novia?, posted by Hoda on Feb 27, 2002
Hey Hoda, Well yes I admit it I have a novia from Cali but the relationship is pretty new and we're not comprometidos yet so...step by step and cruzamos los dedos. Thanks for asking. Title: Bueno...... Post by: Hoda on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Hold up!!!! Did you say, Novia? Well..., posted by Cali vet on Feb 27, 2002
agradable y fácil..... Title: Re: Bueno...... Post by: Cali vet on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Bueno......, posted by Hoda on Feb 27, 2002
Si senor and it sounds like you're on the home stretch. May it go smooth and easy. Title: !Felicidades!! Post by: Edge on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Hold up!!!! Did you say, Novia? Well..., posted by Cali vet on Feb 27, 2002
Nosostros esperamos que vas a tener buena suerte con tú novia. Title: Re: !Felicidades!! Post by: Cali vet on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to !Felicidades!!, posted by Edge on Feb 27, 2002
Muchas gracias Edge, de la suerte eso espero tambien. Tan amable amigo. Title: Re: Re: Re: Three weeks in San Andres? Ugh... Post by: Wayne on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Three weeks in San Andres? Ugh....., posted by Cali vet on Feb 27, 2002
If you go to the Sunrise Hotel in San Andreas, you won't be dissapointed. It is deluxe. If you are not into water sports, you probably are going to be bored. Go to the Casa Blanca for evening live music. The staff is friendly. I would like to try Providencia next time. There are some very beautiful hotels there, and it is less crowded. Have fun, Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Three weeks in San Andres? Ugh... Post by: Cali vet on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: Three weeks in San Andres? U..., posted by Wayne on Feb 27, 2002
Thanks Wayne, I'm really glad you reminded me about Providencia. That is definately where I'll go. I much prefer cabanas even hamacas to luxury hotels. From what I've just been reading it sounds like there is lots of natural environment to explore inland and although beaches are limited the coral reefs are more abundent than at San Andres. And there is inter-island air service. Title: Thanks Wayne... Post by: Hoda on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Wayne, did you have to pay for your ..., posted by Wayne on Feb 26, 2002
Part of the stress of you see here in regards to documentation, shows how different it can be for each couple. It's hard/stressful trying to play by the rules, when they are different for each guy. Consider yourself blessed, that you didn't have to go through, what others have had too. I've decided not to raise a stink with my local consulate. If they ask, I'll pay. I just want my lady here without anything delaying her approval & arrival. The hardest thing for me right now, is the use of my vacation time. Do I use my allotment for the year, hoping they issue the visa during this time. Or do I return home & wait for the second interview, then come back. Without a doubt, it's a question of time and/or money. A couple of friends have recommended, that I get the civil ceremony out of the way first, then do the formal ceremony later & hope the processing will be completed within a 18 day period. I know, that I don't have to be there for the second interview or when she flies here from Colombia. But I want to be there with her. I want to see the expression on her face, once the US embassy stamps her passport. I want to see the expression on her face, when the jet touches american soil. I want to be there, when the first "Wow" or "Dayyum" comes out her mouth. I want to be there, as she exchanges hugs & kisses with her family at the airport. These & other little things, will be once in a lifetime experiences that can't be repeated. Besides, she'll probably need help with her luggage...lol Thanks again...Hoda p.s. Guys, this is "HARD" part of your quest, once you've found & been found by love. Title: The difficulty of separation after you have met someone... Post by: HappyInBrazil on February 27, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thanks Wayne..., posted by Hoda on Feb 27, 2002
I agree with you. I think there is a definate "phase" that people are not mentioning so much. The time between you meet someone you want to spend the rest of your life with and you are together again permanently. I know this was something I did not recognize would be so difficult. It seems like a stange time, with waiting for your life together to begin. It is also something that people need to consider when beginning this process. I know from lurking on the Asian board there are people separated for up to a year, maybe a year and a half! Title: Ditto to that Wayne N/T Post by: FenixRises on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM Title: Marriage Visa for Free????? Post by: Hoda on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Questions about DCF, posted by FenixRises on Feb 26, 2002
Those SOB'S in NYC are asking for $175! I haven't decided yet if I'm gonna pitch a *itch, in regards to the cost. Especially, after you posted that you got yours for free!!! Grrrrr....Hoda (lol) Title: Re: Marriage Visa for Free????? Post by: FenixRises on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Marriage Visa for Free?????, posted by Hoda on Feb 26, 2002
Hey Hoda, I should add that the day I went for the visa I had both feet in casts, was in a wheel chair and in a fair amount of pain. Also my mom and sister were with me. I think maybe the lady in the office took pity on me???? But do not know for sure. The information letter they sent me said it would take 72 hours or more for the visa and that there would be a charge for the visa. But the amount wouldn't be calculated until I was at the embassy. Makes me wonder exactly who gets the fee and how it is calculated. Since you have to present your tax earning records it is impossible to fake being poor. So go figure!!! ;) Fred Title: Try the Colombian Consulate in Chiacago Post by: jo12208 on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Marriage Visa for Free?????, posted by Hoda on Feb 26, 2002
I got my matriomonial visa through the mail at the consulate in Chicago. I mailed them my passport. It took about one week. No fees then. December of 2000. I did not have to go in person. I live in a nearby state. Title: Interesting Post by: Hoda on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Try the Colombian Consulate in Chiacago, posted by jo12208 on Feb 26, 2002
For the consulate in NYC, I have to be present with 2/family members or long-time friends to sign/verify that I'm single also. Along with my birth certificate & a few notarized documents from Stivalis. Ahhh, Dec of 2000! I shouldn't be surprised at the tighter requirements/proof that is now being requested. I can deal with different document requirements. But this nonsense about the visa being free in California & $175 balls in NYC...OH HELL NO!!! Somebody is gonna have to explain that to s*#$ to me!!! If I have to, I'll pay it. But if I don't, the $$$$$ stays in my pocket to pay for other things....Lawd knows, THERE WILL BE OTHER THINGS...LOL Thanks for the feedback....Hoda Title: PS Post by: FenixRises on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Questions about DCF, posted by FenixRises on Feb 26, 2002
We had the first appointment on Jan 14th. The second appointment was on Feb 1st. Title: Oh Dayyuum.... Post by: Hoda on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: The "dark side", posted by FenixRises on Feb 25, 2002
How many times has it been said here, that the quest starts with looking in the mirror. Thanks much for bringing "that" back to the top of the chart. Wishing you & yours the best.... Title: Re: The "dark side" Post by: Hoda on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to The "dark side", posted by Cali vet on Feb 23, 2002
Hey CV, would the "elsewhere" you mentioned, be on another list? I personally haven't heard of such accounts. I'm not denying that it hasn't happened. I'm just curious about the dynamics. Many of us, have heard of similar incidents on the Russian forum, but I can't recall a "real" one here. Keep in mind, when things go wrong & I mean really go wrong (not some troll-trash-tale), a guy may want to chill & lick his wounds or even disappear from MOB radar all together. From what you know (personally or third party), were there any signs before hand, that these err...ladies would pull some shyt like this? Title: Re: Re: The "dark side" & signs Post by: Cali vet on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: The "dark side", posted by Hoda on Feb 25, 2002
No, I don't follow any other lists. My elsewhere just refers to the two guys I know personally and as I said third party accounts by one of those two who networks with others who have married via agency introductions. I am jumping the gun here but I also know personally of a third case through the girlfriend of the "perpetrater" that's about to occur. It's like this: I met a 26 year old woman in B/quilla who I dated a few times before realizing things weren't right. However I became good friends with her girlfriend (had novio colombiano) and remain so. In fact I always stay at her familys house now when I'm in that city. Anyway the "perp" found a 28 yr old guy on the net and invited him down a four months ago. He hadn't dated previously in the states and fell head over heals. They plan to marry in June. The problem is that the perp has a full time boyfriend in B/q and even talks to him in front of the gringo (little Spanish) on the cel phone the gringo bought at her insistence. What's more she wants him to rent her an apt. in B/q after they marry so she can finish her studies before she goes to join him in the states eight months later. My friend tells me he is buying all of this. Of course like I said, the marriage hasn't happened yet so maybe he'll get a clue and save himself. Signs? Everywhere!!! Title: ARE YOU BEING FOR REAL ???!!!!! ......AHI....YIKES !!!!!!!! Post by: Aaron on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: The "dark side" & ..., posted by Cali vet on Feb 25, 2002
I'll say it again.... AHI YIKES !!!!!!!!!! Aaron Title: CV...You gotta help this guy.....PLEASE!!! Post by: Hoda on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: The "dark side" & ..., posted by Cali vet on Feb 25, 2002
No one deserves this, secure your place heaven. SAVE HIM!!! Title: Re: Re: Re: Somebody call Guinness... Post by: Tai on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: The "dark side" & ..., posted by Cali vet on Feb 25, 2002
We may have a winner for the most red flags in one story. She wants and apartment for AFTER they get married? That apartment and tuition money is likely planned to rent and furnish a house for the "perp" and her Colombian boyfriend. Cali vet...when you say he hasn't dated in the states, do you mean that as in the guy has never had a girlfriend before? Jeez, talking to her Colombian boyfriend right in front of the gringo...on a cellular phone that the gringo bought? She is definitely up for a nomination for "Pimp of the Year". -Tai A few quotes are brought to mind by this tale: "There's a sucker born every minute." "A fool and his money are soon parted." "If you're bleeding in the water, the sharks will come." Title: Or...as my pappy used to say... Post by: MarkInTx on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: Somebody call Guinness..., posted by Tai on Feb 25, 2002
A fool and his money... ... were lucky to get together in the first place! Title: Hit 'em with a "WAKE-UP STICK"!!!!!! Post by: Hoda on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: The "dark side" & ..., posted by Cali vet on Feb 25, 2002
No sense in allowing a tragedy to happen.... The guy may get pissed off at first, but better now, then later.... Title: Re: Hit 'em with a "WAKE-UP STICK"!!!!!! and MORE Post by: Cali vet on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Hit 'em with a "WAKE-UP STICK"..., posted by Hoda on Feb 25, 2002
To some of the above questions/comments, yes apparently the guy has not dated in the states, has no experience with women and is exteremely religious. Maybe he just thinks all women must behave like her. I have no way to warn him, only the perp has his number and address. All I know from my friend is that he lives in California. The only hope for him that I can see is that his mother and father and other family are going to Barranquilla for the wedding and moms are pretty good at smelling a rat. But wait, theres more. He sends her $200 a month but that's nothing. The first time he went down his plane was late. My friend and the perp went to meet him but after waiting a long time the perp said "come on lets go, he can find his way to the hotel". It was the guy's first time out of the states and hardly any Spanish! My friend convinced the perp to stay and they did meet him. When I went out with her she told me many stories one of which was that at 18 and 19 she had been a model in Bogota. My friend told me later the perp has never been on a plane in her life. Turned out everything she told me was made up. On a later trip the gringo novio wanted to call a cab to get him to the airport the required two hours early for his return flight and she talked him out of it, said there was plenty of time, no need to go and just wait around. Turns out she thought it was taking a bus, you just go to airport with your ticket and walk on the plane and go. Of course he missed his flight and had to stay another week in Barranquilla since everthing was booked and buy a new ticket. Must have done wonders for his job. My friend, the perps girlfriend likes to write. I'm going to ask her to keep a journal on this match made in heaven and I'll translate it. Anyhow this is all true, I haven't embellished a thing. Title: Re: The Post by: Colonialjd on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to The "dark side", posted by Cali vet on Feb 23, 2002
I recently read of such a couple of failures in another forum -- Latin-Women-L. On guy had posted how his wife liked to go out dancing without him. Other subscribers cautioned him and investigation revealed prevarication regarding her behavior and activities. He found out she was seeing another man. The second guy kind of hit me harder. He is a former contributor to this forum and from his comments a very hard driving, confident guy. He loudly sang the praises of Colombian womenhood, particularly those from the coast. He seemed very open and even went so far as to post wedding pictures on his website. He announced the arrival of his wife in "The States" and looked forward to a rewarding life: children, career success, a good women,... After this he posted less frequently. His comments took the tone that his wife was struggling to adjust, but things were OK. And then nothing for a long time. Tonight I read where he sent his condolences to the other guy and shared that he was divorcing after just 4 months of marriage. The tone of his E-Mail led one to believe that the divorce would be highly adverserial. This guy sounds like a tough guy who will rebound. Maybe we will hear from him so he can warn the rest of us. People use the term -- "Red Flag". If you see any signs of lousy character -- proceed with caution. Enough Said, Colonial Title: Re: The "dark side" Post by: Pete E on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to The "dark side", posted by Cali vet on Feb 23, 2002
There have been a few horror stories posted here,although some are dramatic them seem a small percentage of the experiences we hear about.The actual numbers are probably higher.Perhaps guys are not as anxious to post a "I been a fool" story as they are success stories.Maybe guys that don't follow the list are more likely to make mistakes because they don't have the benefit of our wise counsel.(joking a little here)Think of all the guys who still pay those $1000 fees to join agencies.They don't have the best of imformation. None of the failed marriage stories and only one I can remember of the user relationship stories did not have all kinds of red flags that were overlooked.I guess its easy for a guy to forget his good judgement when he meets a beautifull woman who's stories he would like to believe. There should be no,I repeat no stories that don't jive or mysterious cicumstances.Overlook this and you are asking for trouble. I would say the failure stories are less than 10% of what we hear.A couple of things to remember about the US 50% divorce statistics.This is of the entire population,including the divorce of people who have been married 20 years.I don't remember anybodies success story here being over 4 or 5 years old,so there is plenty of time yet for it to not work.Also,a major reason for the 50% divorce statistics is people who get married again and again.The failure rate for first marriages is less,like 30%. My cousin fits the former catagory.He has been married 6 times.I have been married twice and if my current marriage lasts I am at 50%. It will be interesting to see how the older guy/younger woman marriages last over time,including my own.Actually I think I have a woman that will stick with me through about anything as long as I treat her well.Time will tell.I joke she is my old age care insurance. Pete Title: Re: Re: The "dark side" Post by: stefang on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: The "dark side", posted by Pete E on Feb 24, 2002
Actually the divorce rate in America is going to become much worse before it possibly gets better. Gen Xers are divorcing very rapidly sometimes one fight and the marriage is over. There are so many reasons why relations don't last anymore. I wonder if smaller families also contribute. Remember those big families of 50 years ago. I think most people learned life through their brothers and sisters and family was much stronger then than now. Also life seems easier financially now than before so our younger genrations are more selfish and always want more which parents give. Parents with working mothers have given love to their children with toys and clothes instead of teaching values in life. I know some couples who work all day then get a babysitter for their children so they can go out at night. I can see having some personal time but some kids parents are the babysitters and their teachers that they see more of. The kids grow up never knowing how to be good parents or spouses. Title: Any site available with Pix or Names of L.A. Sharks etc. ??? Post by: Onephd on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to The "dark side", posted by Cali vet on Feb 23, 2002
Just wodering if there is a sites that contain NAMES, PHOTOS AND ALIASES of ladies with less than honorable intentions. For example, I know Elena's Models (a russian site) posts a "Black List" in which the men who have been scammed(or almost scammed) can post the letters, names, known addresses, agencies and aliases of ladies for everyone to see!! While the number of unscrupulous women in L.A. may not be as large as in Russia, I'm sure there are a few! This would be a good thing for all Newbies like myself to see and read. It would be a great source of information for all. I'm not trying to paint an ugly picture or insult anyone or any culture. I've just noticed a few times on here that someone has mentioned they know of a "bad lady" but no mention of a name or a photo is ever given or stated. It seems to me that knowing who these people are would be a great thing for everyone to know???/ Just asking.... Terence Title: Any site available with Pix or Names of L.A. Sharks etc. ??? Post by: El Diablo on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Any site available with Pix or Names of ..., posted by Onephd on Feb 24, 2002
Not that I'm aware of. Patrick had mentioned that he was considering a page here on PL for something along those lines. However a guy couldn't claim a gal was a scammer without giving detailed info. on her M.O or what she'd done. Title: Re: Any site available with Pix or Names of L.A. Sharks etc. ??? Post by: Onephd on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Any site available with Pix or Names of ..., posted by El Diablo on Feb 25, 2002
Thats true, and that's what I would expect. I would hope that "Men" wouldn't have a problem with with doing this as it would save other men heartache and trouble. I think it needs to be done. I hope it get done. If we want others to take this alternative seriously and if we are serious about this, we should be doing things to make this a positive alternative and help police it outselves. Title: Re: Re: Any site available with Pix or Names of L.A. Sharks etc. ??? Post by: Cali vet on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Any site available with Pix or Name..., posted by Onephd on Feb 25, 2002
Some one started a geocities site I think it was, with fotos of scammers but it didn't get very far. Don't know if it's still up or how to find it. Title: The "dark side" Post by: El Diablo on February 23, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to The "dark side", posted by Cali vet on Feb 23, 2002
I'm personally aware of one story where a Calena came in on a spousal visa, still had a boyfriend in Cali and after entering the United States appeared to be making plans to leave her husband. She had a whole network of friends and aquuintances here, including lots of gringos and a male friend in Spain I think. She was calling all of them. I think she flew to Europe to meet the Spainard but she didn't have a proper VISA or something and was immediately sent home. When she entered U.S. airspace and landed at the airport, take a guess who was there to pick her up, a representative of a group that protects women from spousal abuse. Interesting isn't it. Anyway, if this story sounds familar it is because a guy wrote about it here about 9 months ago or so. Now I think stories on these boards should be looked at with some skeptisism. I would have been very skeptical of the story myself but it turned out that I knew who the girl was before she ever made it to the U.S.. Her fiancee and later husband rented my apartment several times in Cali and she spent time there with him. My ex novia took care of my apartment for me. She would meet the guys, take their rent and do weekly cleaning etc. I asked her to be observant about things because there were valuable items in the apto. and such. Anyway my ex not only saw her there at the apto. with her fiaance but after the fiancee left town she was in the apartment with another gringo. This other gringo had no idea that she was in fact engaged but it was clear from what he later told me and what my ex said that the girl was very interested in this other guy. When the Calena saw that my ex had made the connection between the two guys she asked my ex to not say anything. Anyway, looks like a lot more was going on in my apartment when others were there than when I was......... lol A couple months later, I came to Cali and was out with friends at Plaza Norte and we ran into this same Calena. She knew my Colombian friends but didn't know who I was. She was out with a Colombian guy and introduced him as her novio. Well not only did she have a Colombian novia but she had appearently married the gringo who rented my apto. a week before. The story is kind of convoluted and all the peices weren't put together until it was too late. I would have warned the gringo before he got married but I had thought he broke off the relationship because of other problems he was experiencing with her and at time I hadn't put all the connections together. When another guy who knew her and I started peicing together all the parts we discovered that she was now in the States. We warned the gringo husband to be careful and then let things go. I didn't hear from him until he posted his tragic story here a few months later. Anyway, this is the only story of out and out fraud I'm personally aware of but I wouldn't be at all surprised by others. I will say that it seems to be a lot more frequent in the FSU then in LA. El Diablo Title: Just curious Post by: MarkInTx on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to The "dark side", posted by El Diablo on Feb 23, 2002
Since you know both parties involved... How much of it was, do you think, due to an age gap... and how "desireable" a match do you think the Gringo was? i.e., was he 50, over-weight geek who lived at home with his mother? Or was he a reasnably attractive and fit guy who most Calenas would be happy to have met...? Was the Calena in question a sex bomb? What was your over all opinions of them as an observer? Title: Re: Just curious, war stories Post by: Cali vet on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Just curious, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
Diablo answers those questions in a nearby post. In one of the cases where I know the guy and met the girl she was 22 and he 35. Pretty normal in Colombian relationships. She came on a fiance visa and they married. She started English at a community college, began spending a lot of time with latino friends (this was in the Southwest). Eventually she wanted to go out with her friends at night and he started getting calls from guys asking for her. And so on. One day she took off for good and he eventually divorced her without her ever showing up for any of the proceedings. At one point using an interpreter he called her mother in Cali. Her daughter had told her that she went to the statees to visit friends, not a word about having gotton married. Age doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. The only common denominator I have found is that the guys this happens to speak little or no Spanish. Title: Sub-Culture Post by: MarkInTx on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Just curious, war stories, posted by Cali vet on Feb 24, 2002
Also... Following a thread from before... this woman came here and got immersed in her sub-culture. Yousaid :Stared hanging out with latino friends." You can blame the guy for not knowing spanish... or you can blame her for not knowing English. But, in the end, it seems she was much more interested in being with "one of her own kind" than trying to make a marriage work... Which is why the whole subculture thing is one of the most compelling factors, IMHO. Though I know I am a bit of a minority on that one.. Title: Re: Sub-Culture Post by: yc on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Sub-Culture, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
No your not. You(as well as others) made some valid points about the sub-culture and I was in agreement with you. There was a tread some post down that touch on this subject. A subtread shot off from this tread about learning spanish. I think you may have gotten the idea that those of us that participated that subtread(learning spanish) think latinos immigrating to this country should not learn English. That subtread really srhould have been a separate tread altogether. The argument in that subtread for learning spanish was to relate and show respect for her family and culture. For me(and the others believe), that was the extent of the argument. I do not believe anyone immigrating to this country should expect or continue to act as if they are still living in their native country. If you make the effort to immigrate, come with the attitude to assimilate the language and culture. Speaking of sub-culture, I have a story for you. This is very recent... about a week or two old. An acquantance of mine works for a company that employs a lot of latinos. According to him, practically all the latinos live within the latin sub-culture(community, language, etc). The latin employees are a mostly from central america... Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua. Practically all are illegal, and none with the exception of one has made any effort the assimilate. The one that is making the effort to assimilate is a 26yo mexicana(she is very attractive I may add). She came over with her brother. She is attending the local community college to learn english. Some time back she started dating one of the american employees that also works for the company. When the others(latinas) got wind that she was dating an american, they just basically ostracized her. Later on about two weeks ago, the company let her go because they thought it was a conflict of interest for her to be dating an american. The guy she dates drives a folk lift and they do not make contact with each other at work. Well because of the incident, they(my acquantance and her boyfriend) are doing whatever they can to make sure she succeed. From what I am told, she is very intelligent and her english is fairly good. My acquantance has contact with someone willing to hire her as a translator. From the job description, she will be required to communicate mostly in spanish and she will be making triple what she did at her last job. My acquantance also briefly dated one of the other latinas. She is 24yo and from Guatemala(if I recall correctly). The reason that relationship failed, according to him, is that she felt pressured by what the other latinos might think of her. Later man, Title: Thanks for the Clarification Post by: MarkInTx on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Sub-Culture, posted by yc on Feb 24, 2002
I guess I did misread that... I agree about learning her language somewhat to show respect for her culture. (And, more, too) One thing I wanted to add... Anyone who is in this country illegally has a valid reason for staying within a sub-culture -- less chance of detection. It is sad. But at least I understand that... Title: Re: Sub-Culture Post by: Cali vet on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Sub-Culture, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
Yes if there is blame to be handed out no doubt it can be shared between the two parties. However I personally would not tolerate my new wife becoming immersed in social circles that I was not invited to participate in. That to me would set off the alarm bells. But I don't quite get what you mean when you say "...subculture thing is one of the most compelling factors" Compelling to what? To disintegration of the relationship or do you mean something else? Title: Sub-Culture -- Compelling Post by: MarkInTx on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Sub-Culture, posted by Cali vet on Feb 24, 2002
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant to say that it is one of the things that I think needs to be considered very carefully. It is the one thing that can destroy a chance of a marriage. It doesn't matter what the sub-culture is. It is a means of isolating the husband and the wife from each other. You can take it to extremes... you can also look at it the other way... Some men will join "Men only" clubs and hang out there to get away from their wives. Ask any woman who is a "football widow" or a "golf widow" what she thinks about that, and how it affects her marriage. The problem with the latina hanging out with "her own kind" and going to clubs and such is that it not only isolates her from her husband... it also tempts her with other offers at the same time. This is the reason I started my search in Russia, to be honest... I think every man who is bringing a woman over should have a good idea in mind about how he plans to help his wife "feel at home" here, without relying solely on ESL classes and hook-ups with "girls from her own country". That's playing with fire, IMHO Title: I hear your concerns, BUT... Post by: Aaron on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Sub-Culture -- Compelling, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
some men feel perfectly comfortable spending significant time socializing with people from the woman's ethnic group (i.e., subculture). And some women don't mind bringing their "outside or non-ethnic husbands" to activities of their ethnic background, especially if the guy is open-minded and appreciates what these activities have to offer; and the woman is mature enough to realize that she should help her husband feel comfortable and assimilate. The woman should also be mature enough not to allow people from her own ethnic group sway her from her husband. So it is an issue of maturity for her, too. My experiences with making sincere and lasting life-time friendships with Latinos help me in my search, not only that, they helped my whole attitude in general. On the account of my friendships, I'm definitely not the same person that I was about 5 years ago. I'm much happier, and the thing is I have a HEART now. Regarding my search, my friendships help me tremendously. It's to the point that I've been thinking about which married Latin couple, who are close to me of course, would I chose to be the God Parents of my children. Which of my closest friends is going to be my best man (Eugenio or Andres) when that day comes. I get complements from other Latinos young and old about different things. Alot of Latinos have mistaken me for Puerto Rican, Dominican, and Colombian. All this stuff has helped me in my search because when I would date Latinas here in the US, the parents felt very open and receptive. And when I travel to Colombia, I always get invited to home cooked dinners from the mamacitas. Personally, what I like is a blend between the two cultures. There are MANY MANY things that I really appreciate and like about the Latin culture (as diverse as it is), from Latinos still in Latin America and even in the US. I can definitely see how some of the ways they do things would benefit my personal growth and a future family. On the other hand, I see traits that I have as being raised as an American that would benefit a Latina partner. Also, keep this in mind, both ethnic backgrounds (Latino AND American) have some issues that may not necessarily be desireable for the married couple. Aaron Title: Feeling at home... Post by: Hoda on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Sub-Culture -- Compelling, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
and adapting to changes in lifestyle (single to couple) requires work from both parties. I have to agree that relying on "ESL classes & girls from her country" is really being lazy, in regards to helping your new esposa adjust to life here. I've lived "around" Latin culture all my life, but it wasn't until Stivalis came into my life, that I started "living" the culture. I find it sometimes difficult, but always fascinating living & learning a new language & culture. Our home will be bi-lingual. I want to learn as much about her language & culture, as she does mine. Title: Now I like this idea !!!!!!!!!!!! Post by: Aaron on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Feeling at home..., posted by Hoda on Feb 25, 2002
I've already decided long ago, I want my future kids to have Spanish first names and definitely bilingual. I'm going pro Latino !!!!!!!!! With a plate of rice and beans on a regular basis !!!!!!!!! For real. Aaron Title: Re: Now I like this idea !!!!!!!!!!!! Post by: Cali vet on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Now I like this idea !!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by Aaron on Feb 25, 2002
Don't forget yuca and platano with that rice and beens! It's the best. Title: Arroz con coco tambien mi negro.........LOL!!!!!!!!!!! n/t Post by: Aaron on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM Title: !Costeno! Post by: Cali vet on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Arroz con coco tambien mi negro............, posted by Aaron on Feb 26, 2002
You've been hangin' in B/quilla. Title: Todo los lugares, simplemente Colombiano y nada mas..n/t Post by: Aaron on February 26, 2002, 05:00:00 AM Title: Any update on when she will arrive? n/t Post by: HappyInBrazil on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM Title: Soon come bro, soon come....lol...........n/t Post by: Hoda on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Any update on when she will arrive? n/t, posted by HappyInBrazil on Feb 25, 2002
n/t Title: Awww... Post by: HappyInBrazil on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Soon come bro, soon come....lol............, posted by Hoda on Feb 25, 2002
I hope she comes soon. I don't regret coming down here, although I will have some worries when we return. It will be easier to face together. Title: Just curious Post by: El Diablo on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Just curious, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
I knew the gringo only by phone and email. He was a nice guy, late 30's or ealy 40's, smart, good job and my ex told me he was an attractive guy. He wasn't a first timer in Cali either. I met the gal but I wouldn't say that I knew her. She was about 18 or 19 at the time, tall about 5'9'', and quite attractive. Her parents were professionals, a doctor and professor if I remember correctly but not rich. From what I've learned from other gringos who really knew her, she had a unique quality about her that the guys liked. She appeared extremely sweet and believable. It came as quite a shock to them that she was involved in this. I'm aware of some other things that I did not mention that should have been red flags for the gringo. In his defence, other people were fooled by her too. El Diablo Title: Age Post by: MarkInTx on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Just curious, posted by El Diablo on Feb 24, 2002
You can say that a 10 -15 year age gap is common in Cali... But she was 18??? Remember what you were like when you were 18, guys? IMHO, even if you are only 29, you shouldn't be getting involved with an 18 year old. Flame away if you want... but I think that an 18 year old is just too young to even consider what it means ot leave family and friends and go to a foriegn land as a wife. Title: Re: Age Post by: Cali vet on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Age, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
I don't know whose account you are referring to. Mine involves a guy 35 with a calena 21 or 22. But you're right about 18 year old city girls. Not good marriage material. Out in the pueblos it's a little different. Title: BTW Post by: MarkInTx on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Age, posted by Cali vet on Feb 24, 2002
I know that the theory is that women mature faster in other cultures... but in my opinion, 21 or 22 is still awfully young... Especially if the guy is 30 something. Hey... anyone can make whatever decision he wants. I'm just saying that I wouldn't look at a woman under 25 no matter how old I was. I just think that you have to be a fairly mature woman to understand what is going to be required of you to pick up and move to another land with a man you -- really -- don't know. And 18 year old or a 21 year old might THINK she knows what she is doing. And she may be as sincere as she can be in her INTENTIONS. I just don't think I have met any 21 year olds in my life (and that includes some "mature" 21 year olds in Russia) who could honestly count the cost of that decision. I think a lot of them are simply caught up in the romance of it all... Not that she might not make it work out anyway. That is always possible. But... Give me the older woman (is 26 THAT old???) who understands what she is doing...and does it anyway... I think I can make a MUCH better life with her. BTW, for those of you seeking women with no children... nothing will mature a person -- man or woman -- faster than having kids... You sure you want a 21 year old who has never done anything except live as a child...??? Title: Re: BTW Post by: Cali vet on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to BTW, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
Setting age thresholds is a personal matter. What makes one guy feel secure may be exagerated "risk management" to another. My impression from the relationships I've observed that are working is that success with a colombiana has more to do with compatability and mutual understanding than any other factor. Of course when there are language and culture barriers to overcome that can be a tall order regardless of age. Title: Re: Re: Age Post by: MarkInTx on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Age, posted by Cali vet on Feb 24, 2002
El D said: "She was about 18 or 19 at the time, tall about 5'9'', and quite attractive. " That's too young... IMHO Title: Re: Age Post by: El Diablo on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Age, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 24, 2002
You'll get no flame from me, eighteen or nineteen is way too young IMO. Any guy, I dont care if he's 25 or 40 is playing latin roulette with only one chamber open when he gets involved with such a young gal. El Diablo Title: Re: The "dark side" Post by: Cali vet on February 23, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to The "dark side", posted by El Diablo on Feb 23, 2002
Thanks Diablo that's quite a horror story. We know there are all kinds of machinations that go on in Cali. I was wondering about accounts that take place on US soil. I get the impression that there are quite a few situations where for one reason or another the marriage doesn't work but the girl does't return to Colombia. Title: The "dark side" Post by: El Diablo on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: The "dark side", posted by Cali vet on Feb 23, 2002
I was writing so quickly that I don't think I made it clear, the shenanigans started in Cali and they continued when she came to the U.S. after her marriage. Once in the U.S. she started making connections with her network here and was contacting several gringos while living with her husband. I'm not sure what precipitated it but at some point she just took off alone to Europe to meet up with the Spanaird. But her Visa was not proper and the authorities sent her back to the United States. She must have contacted the spousal abuse group before arriving as I believe they were waiting for at the airport or soon after. I think once the dust settled, the gringo filed for divorce and the gal returned to Cali. It doesn't sound like the goal was the United States but rather money and adventure. I think when all was said and done, she came away with a good sum of money. Title: Re: Re: The "dark side" Post by: H2Oh on February 23, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: The "dark side", posted by Cali vet on Feb 23, 2002
I think this is a great topic you bring up. I know of 2 or 3 gringo's that have married women from Cali and these women have little desire to go back to Colombia when it didn't work. Let's remember that most of the agency girls join because they want to get out of Colombia, find a way to help support their family in Colombia or really want to find a good husband. I see many nieve guys go down to Colombia and think that some beautiful girl that's 20 years younger then them really wants to come back to the states with them for nothing else then love. How many chicas come here and find out that the gringo they married is just an average wage earner, not the Bill Gates they thought they where marrying? Money means alot to most of these ladies, and they are here to get it one way or another. I would guess that 25 to 35% of the marriages from Colombia don't last past 2 years. Yes these are better odds then marrying an AW but it more expensive and time consuming to end a marriage to a Colombian. As I tell everyone, TAKE YOUR TIME AND BE VERY CAREFUL. My 2 cents, H2-Oh Title: Yes & No.... Post by: Hoda on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: The "dark side", posted by H2Oh on Feb 23, 2002
Unless one has FACTS of EVERY marriage to a lady that was a member of an agency. Generalizing "MOST" of these ladies is silly & useless to say the least. Your "GUESSING" serves no real purpose. And in regards to the cost of marriage. I've spent more here, financially & emotionally. Than what I've spent going south. I will agree whole-heartedly, that one should take their time in their search. But, I will support a guy, if he honestly feels he's found & been found by love in a short period of time. There is no "One" path towards success. My 50 pesos..... p.s. If you bleed in the water, the sharks will come$$$$$ Title: Re: Re: Re: The "dark side" Post by: pastilla100 on February 24, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: The "dark side", posted by H2Oh on Feb 23, 2002
When you say "25 to 35% of the marriages from Colombia" don't last are you talking about Colombia in general or Cali? I went to Cali once and my impression was that the place was one big red flag and I wasn't going back. That's why I'm planning my next trip to Bogota. I am also working my connections in Mexico, but that takes a lot longer since there is little agency support. Title: Cali.....One Big Red Flag????? Post by: Hoda on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: The "dark side", posted by pastilla100 on Feb 24, 2002
Do tell us why.... I do hate these blanket generalizations about ANY city! One visit & you're ready to cover Cali, with a "Red Flag"? Please..... Title: What red flags? Post by: Onephd on February 25, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: The "dark side", posted by pastilla100 on Feb 24, 2002
What were the red flags you saw? Please inform us!! |