Print Page - Is Colombia really as good as they say?

... in response to Is Colombia really as good as they say?, posted by Nico on Dec 3, 2001

Colombia is what you make of it. I freelanced, and now I'm married-- some folks go the agency route and they're married or engaged... I didn't go to Cali, but you read lots of good posts and lots of info on Cali, lesser info no Bogota, Medellin, Cartagena, etc...

When I went, I didn't go with any preconcieved notions about either the ' sexually-hot latina' or the 'green card shark.' I had examined this board, looked at various laws, and spoke to friends with foreign wives, and to the foreign wives, also. The only one who gave me warnings is a divorce lawyer, and he wanted to warn me about prenups ans so forth. "He never said don't do it or do it, just wanted to explain legal ramifications.

I went to meet a specific person with whom I'd corresponded, and that worked for me. We're married, she's on her way inthe next few weeks, and we'll start re-adjusting to life here.

Is Colombia the answer to all of the relationship woes faced by American Males? No. However, the average colombian likes the USA, admires the USA, and doesn't have a calculator or money exchanger in mind when talking to a gringo, at least not where I've been in country, except for touristy places.

Colombia does offer alternatives, especially to those of us who speak Spanish, who , whether we're 'traditional' or 'nontraditional,' don't care for something we've seen or met in AWs. However, this is not the country of the stepford-wife-spanish-model. IF one wants a beautiful robot, don't go to colombia. If you want someone from a culture that expresses and acts on concern for family and friends, at least in general, then Colombia's a good place.

There's no magic bullet, I think-- or no magic country where the mountain streams are beer and the women wear no clothes. Colombia has many nice and wonderful people, some beautiful young women, and some beautiful older women, as well. But is it perfect? No. Colombia has been in a depression for almost 10 years, the economy's a shambles, and many people there want some security they don't think they'll find unless they migrate.

So... a lot of rambling and a lot of euqivocations on my part, but-- you won't know until you get off the plane. It's important to go, to make up your own mind. Just my .02... cheers

... in response to Is Colombia really as good as they say?, posted by Nico on Dec 3, 2001

Everybody talks about Colombia becauses it's where almost all the guys looking for Latin wives go. They go there because it's where most of the agencies are and most guys use agencies rather than going it alone. Most of the agencies are there because that's where the women are the most willing to join agencies to look for American husbands. As to why, that's a matter of opinion. There's as much poverty in many other Latin countries as there is in Colombia. However, Colombia combines both poverty and political problems with a guerilla war that's been going on for decades. My personal opinion is that it's a combination of the political problems and a snowball effect. Women are a lot more willing to join an agency if they know someone who's found a good man. Forget the "Women outnumber the men X-to-1" hype you'll see at some of the web sites. That's just sales hype. If young ladies do outnumber the young men, then it's going to be by a very narrow margin.

I personally became interested in finding a Latin wife after I dated a Mexican woman for a few months (met her near San Diego while she was visiting family there). I just happened to find my wife in Colombia because that's where the majority of the ladies listed in the catalogs came from. I didn't limit myself to that area, nor choose it because I thought the women were more beautiful there.

If agency infrastructure is important for you, then Colombia is probably the best place to go since it has, by far, the greatest number of agencies. If you're more independent, know Spanish, etc. then you can go pretty much anywhere and operate alone without any agency. There are agencies in other countries as well, but there's not as many to choose from as there is in Colombia.

I would second the other guy's opinion that you should go with no expectations. I saw plenty of unattractive women in Colombia. But I didn't go and visit an agency, I was just out on the town with the woman I went to meet so there was no pre-screening for attractiveness of the women I came into contact with. They were just everyday ordinary people. Agencies that are free for the ladies (which almost all are) make their money by having lots of attractive ladies on their books so you won't see too many unattractive ones. That may distort some guy's perspective a bit on the attractiveness of the general population.

... in response to Re: Is Colombia really as good as they s..., posted by Patrick on Dec 4, 2001

I take issue with one part of your post. I wouldn't overplay the poverty angle. Most of the girls we meet in the cities, Cali, Bogota, B/quilla do not live in anything like abject poverty, not by South American standards. Their economic situation is "tight" sure but desparate no. They would prostitute themselves before it got to that. Once, just once in the years I've been visiting Colombia I met an agency girl who had gone with out meals on some occaisions for lack of plata. If you want to find poverty in Colombia go to the towns out in the country. There you will find it for sure as evidenced by 14-15 year olds who will go with a man for $6.000 and then go play with her school girl friends afterwards. And it's accepted as necessity by the community. I've seen it in Trujillo-Valle. (No you slugs, I passed on the oportunity.)

I haven't spent time in Central America except for Panama but I strongly suspect there is a higher incidence of real poverty in places like Nicaragua, El Savador and Honduras.

... in response to Re: Re: Is Colombia really as good as th..., posted by Cali vet on Dec 4, 2001

It's true, I don't think that the girls who join the agencies belong to the
really poor class in Colombia. Those really poor girls wouldn't
even have the clothes, the hair, the make-up, etc to go meet the foreigners
at the agencies, and even worse...they wouldn't even
have hope.

The issue of why there are so many agencies in Colombia and women willing
and able to sign up is very controversial. I think it's the
combination of several factors.

Poverty, war, crime, lack of opportunities, etc, play an important role for
these ladies to sign up with the agencies. Also, in the group
age of 20 to 30 year olds...something like 9 out of 10 murder victims are
men. This creates an imbalance in the number of
marriage-age women vs. marriage-age men. And it's not the agency hype that
falsely states that there are 10 women for every man.
But a 55% women vs 45% men is a huge demographical imbalance.

There is another factor that hasn't been covered in this forum: of course
there are poorer countries than Colombia (Honduras,
Dominican Republic, etc). There are also countries like Nicaragua and El
Salvador that have endured terrible civil wars.

But there is something that is very deep-rooted in the Colombian culture
that sets the country appart: we just don't know how to be
poor. People in Colombia will do anything to improve themselves, most would
do it the legal way...others will do it the illegally....but
almost no one is willing to accept their fate without a fight.

People will migrate to other countries with or without visas, with or
without education, with or without the language. Some women will
marry a fat foreigner 15+ years their senior, with whom they're not in love
and can't even communicate. But they'll do it anyway.
Most people will work their behinds off to improve the life of their
families. A few others will deal cocaine, kidnap, rob, murder.
Anything goes when it comes down to the survival and advancement of the
family.

If you go to say Mexico or Guatemala, you can find really poor, illiterate
people...but they don't have the drive and willingness to get
out of that situation like the one you'll find in Colombia.

Kenfer

... in response to Re: Re: Is Colombia really as good as th..., posted by Cali vet on Dec 4, 2001

I don't think it's the poverty. I think you mis-interpreted my message. If that were the case, then several other Latin American nations would have even more women wanting to join agencies. I think it's the added political hopelessness that many feel on top of the poor economy. I think it's also due to what I called the "snowball effect." Agency starts, women marry, their friends see that it worked for them and also join. Other agencies start up, more marry, more women see more friends who are happy living with their gringo husbands and more join.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Is Colombia really as good a..., posted by Patrick on Dec 4, 2001

Perhaps the "snowball effect" started back in the 1950's when the Colombian Civil War, "La Violencia" led to 400,000 deaths. While I can't find exact statistics I find comments indicating that large numbers of Colombians fled to the U.S. during that period.

Immigrants & refugees send back information and others follow or dream of following when they hear of success. Success and the spread of information take time. Contact and information about opportunity seem to drive the process. Next thing you know there are agencies or matchmakers.

Think of countries like Korea, which were culturally very different from the US, but which due to the Korean Conflict and reconstruction brought lots of Americans and Koreans together and lead to lots of immigration. Other examples might include Phillipines, and the war brides from western Europe following WWII.

The immigrants from poorer countries with less immigration, have perhaps had less success here due to their lower educational level. Fewer success stories, means fewer willing to gamble on relocating. (We tend to forget that contrary to what we think, many in the world don't want to live here.) There are also probably fewer potential immigrants having the finacial resources in these countries to gamble on relocation.

Perhaps this is part of the answer.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Colombia really as go..., posted by Cali vet on Dec 4, 2001

What these women are looking for is an opportunity for a better life.In Colombia she may have little opportunity for a guy who will marry her and treat her well,and even if she gets that life will probably be difficult.The standard of living is not good for most people.
Along comes a gringo who not only seems like someone who will treat her well but the increase in opportunities will be tremendous.She can come to the US,have a good life,get a job,get a profession,have a house,accumulate material weath,help her family,it goes on and on.So we,guys,represent an opportunity she doesn't have in her country.The downside is she has to leave her family and country and this is difficult for her.
So you don't have to have extreme poverty to have little opportunity.
About the percieved abundance of women.In my post I was definetly reffering to using and agency where there will be hundreds of women wanting to meet a gringo.So a guy can just get overwhelmed with the opportunity he now has.I think its automatic unless he is a jerk or is extremely,extremely unatractive.He will have lots of candidates to chose from.If he is not young and attractive he may need to forget the 18 year olds and work on the 30 and up girls.So it really doesn't even take luck,a guy needs to get on a plane and go to a good agency that has alot of women to choose from.It really is a happy hunting ground,but you have to go where the women are,and that means agency as well as country.
Now if you just go and don't use an agency,or don't have anyone helping you could have an entirely different impression of the same country.If you don't speak spanish and are not assertive you may not meet anyone at all.Go it alone is OK if you have the spanish and assertiveness,but if it doesn't work then you need an agency.Even if you think it worked you may be unaware of the choices you really could have had.Same thing with writting one girl and going to see her.Maybe it will work,but you missed the
experience possible in having alot of women to choose from.
Going with no expectations?Well I guess you won't be disapointed that way,but unless you are totally unreasonable in what you expect its not that hard to find a great girl.I think it is reasonable to expect success if you can stay 3 weeks or so,avoid the trouble girls and don't spend too much time chasing the wrong ones.I think alot of guys who go down many times are either too particular or don't really know what they want.
Of course this is all from the perspective of someone who married the second girl he met.I did interview many others but I came back to her.She just stood out over the others.
Maybe I did get lucky.I could have spent my whole 3 weks finding someone.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re:Its about opportunity guys, posted by Nico on Dec 5, 2001

At 34 you will be in the acceptable age range of even the 18 year olds,but you would probably be wise to choose someone a little older,maybe 25 plus.They may know what they want a little more.
However,my wife saw me writting this and reminded me of a cute and nice 20 year old she knows,plus several others in their late 20's.Send me your E-mail and I will give you the imformation if you are interested.
The other thing to remember is that almost all of these women want children,and many will already have children.You need to decide where you are with that.The younger they are the less likely they will already have them,butyou can find young ones with kids and older ones without.If they don't already have them its about 99% they will want them.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Re:Its about opportunity guys, posted by Pete E on Dec 5, 2001

Hi all,
A few thoughts(remember I am now 53):
I was not interested in a very young woman say under 30ish. Sheesh I would feel more like her father. I also hold a strong opinion that many people go through a life change at around age 28-30. I would rather be on the after side of that change. I also think that the looks of many woman truely ripen somewhere between 30-38.
My fiance is 31.
"A man marries a woman hoping she will never change..a woman marries a man hoping he will change..both end up disappointed." I want the woman who has been there etc. to lessen the impact. Beware of young women(say 18-24 ish) for a long term relationship if you are considerably older than her.
As far as children go I suspect many calenas will have a child even if not married once they reach thier early 30's.
Because they want children.
I suspect that they respond to the pressure of the biological clock ticking more than AW.
I think that there is far more of a seperation between the under 30, over 30 groups than many of us realize. When I was in my 20's the term "Generation Gap" was in common usage. It is a real phenomena. There is an old adage that states something like this:
A man should look for a woman one half his age plus seven years.
So if you are say 34 that means a 24 year old.
For me somewhere around early to mid-thirties.
Fred

... in response to Re: Re: Re:Its about opportunity guys, posted by Pete E on Dec 5, 2001

Pete I didn't mean to butt in, but I'm really just getting into doing a lot of research and hopefully preparing to make a trip this sping or summer. This site and all the postings have helped a lot to. I guess being an American I have this thing about big age differences. How you see the young women on these sites and they say they would be with a much older guy, and even if thats so I couldn't see myself doing it no matter how beautiful or mature she is.(Don't hold me to this lol) I'm 36 and 28 maybe 27 would be the youngest that I would pursue. I understand that this would probaly mean most of the women that I meet would have a child and I'm okay with that. I would really want someone who doesn't have children and wanted to have one.

I appreciate all the comments you guys make. You really seem to stay real and not sugarcoat anything

Dave

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:Its about opportunity guy..., posted by jDave on Dec 5, 2001

Dave,
A funny thing happens to alot of guys who go south.They find out the 18-21 year olds are interested in them and they
change their whole concept of an acceptable age.The longer they stay the more they lower the age group they are interested in.
I have only 2 issues with that.Does the girl really know what she wants and will it change alot in a few years?How will she feel about you as you age?
I think a little older is better,but that is from the perspective of a guy who was 56 when he went.One of the first girls I met(not an interview) at latinlove was 18 and I didn't even give her a thought.I told her and her 18 friend I was looking for 35 not 18.But a 45 year old friend
dated and almost married this girl.I guess some guys 40-45
still have that very young image of what they want in a girl.Another friend (age 40)spent 2 years chasing 18-21 year olds.I would tell him,whats wrong with 25?I don't know,he didn't want to go there.He finally married a 21 year old that looks younger than the 18 year old he dated.
At 36 you may well find yourself looking down to the 21 year old pretty Quick.I just have this number in my head.25 is better.At 56 I was very happy to find a 33 year old who I think is beautifull.
I don't know if it got talked about on this list,but on Latin women list someone stated what he called the "prophets formula",from islam I guess.Its says the ideal woman will be half your age + 7 years.Thats 25 for you.Alot of 25 year olds,I would say 60-70 % do not have kids.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:Its about opportunity..., posted by Pete E on Dec 5, 2001

Thanks pete I think I have heard of that before. (half your age + 7). It is something to think about. I have run across plenty of the young women in my short life (especially in my field) who are young and georgous say 18-25 but to talk to them is an adventure in itself. I'm not saying all are like that but to me most are. Since I haven't been there before you may very well be right. Looking through these sites I have found plenty of women who are say 29-35 who are very good looking. Of course pictures don't tell everything but when I go this summer I'm going with an open attitude.

Question: I was thinking about posting an add in one of the magazines that let the ladies write to you first. Have you or anyone you know ever done this before? I thought of it as a way to maybe get to know some of the women before I go there, and partly because I'm not sure about going on one of the tours that put hundreds of women in a hotel ballroom with a party atmosphere and of course drinking and expect to find someone nice.

... in response to Is Colombia really as good as they say?, posted by Nico on Dec 3, 2001

There is no doubt there are many good looking ladies in Colombia, but I think Colombia is a little bit oversold on this forum. Likely by guys who haven't been anywhere else in Central or South America and don't have a true since of comparison.

I recently moved to Chile with my work, plus I have traveled in most of the countries in SA.

When I travel in SA, I always see lots of good looking ladies no matter where I go. Colombia has a high concentration of MOB agencies due primarily I suspect to the terrible economic conditions in that country, and the ladies want to get out.

The biggest negative I have seen in Colombia (outside of the potential danger to the gringos)is that the women I have met seem to be a bit jaded about men, maybe for good reasons. I don't see that same attitude in Chile. The women here don't necessary want out by any means. The economy is the best in SA and the unemployment is relatively low. I have met many professional intelligent very attractive ladies here. To my knowledge there are no Colombian style MOB agencies in Chile. But who would need one here. All you have to do is go to a club, ask one to dance (they never turn you down). If you speak some Spanish you are off and running. They love gringos.

If you saw the ladies on the streets and beaches near Viña Del Mar in those tiny bikinis, you would say like me, Colombia who!! It is summer time here, and the sidewalk cafes and clubs are full of lovely ladies who aren't out to green card you.

Yes, I think you should go to Colombia because it is a very interesting and unusal place, and yes there are many beautiful ladies. I really like most of the people I have met in Colombia. But don't think it is the only place by any means, travel around and see the world, or otherwise you will be short changing yourself.

good luck,
mike

... in response to Is Colombia really as good as they say?, posted by Nico on Dec 3, 2001

I recommend you go down there without any expectations. I went down to Cali and found it to be different from the overly optimistic and Pollyannaish point of view represented on this board. Of all the lists and boards I consulted, the two gringos board seem to have the most sober advice. See it as an opportunity to meet women that you would not be able to meet otherwise given your constrained situation in the United States. Good luck.

... in response to Is Colombia really as good as they say?, posted by Nico on Dec 3, 2001

Just keep your last experience at that night club as a reference point and you will think you have died and gone to heaven.The most attractive lady you saw in that bar,the one you couldn't even get close to because of all the guys fighting over her probably won't even start to compare with the ones that will be fighting over you.Even if you believe what I'm telling you you really have to experience it.You will be changed forever.

Pete

... in response to Re: Is Colombia really as good as they s..., posted by Pete E on Dec 4, 2001

Hi pete
A personal experience from my first trip to Cali.
One day while sitting in Luz Amparo's Latin Best Agency killing some time waiting for an appointment to show, two young ladies showup and start talking to Luz about the agency(one advantage of staying at an agency is the number of women who just happen to drop by..."checking out the new meat...is more likely"). Anyway these two ladies were about 20ish. When I was there in July I was 52, not Adonis, not dogmeat. Quite a stroke to an "older" man's ego to have these two young attractive girls openly flirting with me. 20 year olds in the states wouldn't have looked at me twice. I found it very common at places like Chipi Chapa to see beautiful 20ish girls hanging onto 40ish men. Different country, different cultures. Now I'm sure that most younger Colobianas would love to be the apple of the eye of a 30ish Brad Pitt type but I suspect they also realize that that guy would have woman crawling all over him. The mentality of the calena is different than AW, I do not know how different but it is frequently pleasantly so.
Fred

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