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Fellas,

After reading some of Mike's posts, I have come to the conclusion that he's making sweeping generalizations about Colombian women without even have travelled there to meet any of them.

He's coming across very obnoxiously, and I question whether or not if he has the maturity it takes to be successful with this pursuit.

Mike, if you are offended by this message, go and cry to your girl in Mexico (that's if she is real and not some type of fantasy that you created while surfing the web).

Guys,
Excuse my arrogance, but I'm tired of simpletons.

Mike, Let me share one experience I had with a girl from Cartagena. From this girl, I had learned that earning potential and financial status is not the only important thing.

I had the chance to correspond with a girl from Cartagena who should be 26 now, during 1999 to 2000. This girl was very intelligent. She had a bachelor's degree in Psychology. She didn't come from a poor family. I know that because her brother and sister attended The University of the Andes in Bogota, which is a prestigous private university. Her brother was a medical doctor, and sister was a bacteriologist.

Anyway, this girl was aware that I'm educated, and that I come from a decent upper middle class family (I'm not trying to boast here). D

During our correspondence, she tested my intentions.

She told me in the beginning that she was writing four other guys. I said fine, not a problem. As our friendship grew, she told me that one of the guys she was writing with was a janitor. She said that she had been writing that guy for about a year. He was 10 years older than her. She said that he was a nice guy, and that she liked corresponding with him because she improved her english allot from the correspondence. Then she told me that he was planning to visit her for the first time in Cartagena, and that she and her family were going to receive him in their home.

Immediately when she told me that, I had got jealous. Because by that time, I had started liking her. I would call her regulary and we would write each other. Well, out of jealousy I told her that the other guy could never provide for her like the way that I could. I said he was just a janitor, and that I'll be finished with school making big money in about a year or two. I tried to explain to her that I was the best candidate for a relationship because I would be earning more, and I would be able to provide more for her. (BASICALLY, I WAS AN ASSH*LE FOR SAYING AND BELIEVING THAT. LUCKILY I HAVE LEARNED MY LESSON, AND I DON'T THINK LIKE THAT ANYMORE, AND I DON'T SAY THOSE TYPE OF THINGS.)

At that minute, she said "WHAT A MINUTE AARON...you are not considering my feelings about the other guy." After that we finished the phone call. The next day she wrote me a message. She told me the truth of the story.

Actually, the truth was that there was not any other guy...no janitor. The truth was that her father had lost his job in Cartagena, and that to make an income he had to work two jobs. One as a salesman during the day, and one as a janitor during the night.

She told me that she didn't think I had the level of sensitivity and compassion that she was looking for in a man, and that she and I should only be friends.

After that, I felt like a fool. I was hurt because I really did start to like her allot. But, I was too immature, egotistical, and shallow of a person to express my feelings the right way. But, one thing I learned was not to be shallow and judge people by their financial status. And that was a great lesson I had learned from a sweet girl in Cartagena, Colombia.  

Aaron

... in response to Please don't pay any attention to Mike, posted by Aaron on Nov 6, 2001

For sharing such an experience. To admitt ones faults & mistakes without blaming others, and then GROWING from them, is truly showing what it is to be a man....

Heartfelt thanks Brah....Hoda

... in response to We all owe you Aaron..., posted by Hoda on Nov 6, 2001

Brother Hoda,

Thank you very much. You are truly a gentleman.

Not to be a religious fanatic, but the Apostle Paul in the New Testament said that even himself was the chief of sinners, and that all sinners need grace.

Can I get an Amen!!!

Aaron

... in response to Please don't pay any attention to Mike, posted by Aaron on Nov 6, 2001

Personally I think "Mike" is just someone wanting to jerk a chain.  Reading his posts it is difficult to believe he is for real.  As far as earning potential goes...  I am looking for a lifetime companion not someone to supplement my income.  I make good money and my ex-wife was making 3 times my salary.  Today if I had a choice between a brain surgeon and a girl working at Taco Bell, I would opt for the girl at Taco Bell.  I want a simple happy life for a change.  

I have spent a great deal of time in Mexico and I do agree there are some very beautiful and sweet girls there.  I have some wonderful friends there.  Still yet, I am travelling to Colombia in three weeks.

... in response to Please don't pay any attention to Mike, posted by Aaron on Nov 6, 2001

Aaron,

That was a great post. Thanks for posting something that was a little embarrassing for you.

My best lessons have usually been painful, humiliating and sometimes with a feeling of shame.

That was one smart lady you were writing to.  I hope you are still friends.

I do believe that this foriegn bride quest does attract some individuals that have very few lady and relationship skills.  That is why some of them look outside the country.  They are failing in this country because of their own development in this area.  After being married to a Russian lady for a few years, and being around this whole process, I worry more for the ladies, then the guys.  I hear so much about the scammers and all the stories about what the women have done to the guys.  If the ladies had a board discussing the American men, I'm sure it would be shocking to find out how alot of guys have behaved in this process.

There are definately some insensitive comments flying around such as calling Colombian girls "air heads".  These attitudes toward women, surely don't lead to happy marriages in the future.

Just my .02
Wayne

... in response to Re: Please don't pay any attention to Mi..., posted by Wayne on Nov 6, 2001

Wayne,

Thanks for the recognition. I agree with what you just said. I think that the majority of these guys involved in this pursuit have poor social and relationship building skills.

However, for the sincere guys who have found love, these guys are men that are good men, and could probably find a wife from any country, but for some reason or another they started looking abroad.

As for myself, I have always been attracted to foreign women of all kinds, even since high school. However, I never had the courage to try and meet foreign women.

I started a relationship with an American girl. She was my first love. I wanted to marry that girl. But, she cheated on me, tried to manipulate me, and her family were nothing but con artists. I got hurt from that relationship. She and I were together for 6 years off and on, until I just couldn't take it anymore. It was still hard for me to let go because I really liked her, and she was a gorgous girl.
But, I realized I had to get away from her if I wanted to make anything out of myself for the future.

Then that's when the pursuit started. I can remember thinking to myself "Aaron you have always been attracted to exotic women, why not try to meet some exotic looking women in the US?" So, I started

... in response to Re: Re: Please don't pay any attention t..., posted by Aaron on Nov 6, 2001

I started searching for match-making services on the web. I wanted to look for personal ads from Latinas in the US. I kept searching, and I eventually came across the A Foreign Affair agency. I began writing girls from Cartagena. Also, I started meeting Latinos in the US for a social network. We are good friends, and the provide me with allot of support and information. My Latin friends here in the US have been the best source of information about women throughout all of Latin America. I recommend for any of the guys that are seriously looking to marry a Latina, make an effort to meet other Latin people to get to know them and learn from them. The experiences that you will gain from being friends with Latin people prior to your marriage will help make the adjustment period between you and your wife allot easier. Plus, you will know some Latin people that your wife came become friends with.

Aaron

... in response to Re: Re: Please don't pay any attention t..., posted by Aaron on Nov 6, 2001

maybe there is a reason she cheated on you, did you ever think of that?

... in response to Please don't pay any attention to Mike, posted by Aaron on Nov 6, 2001

You should not of said something like that, I would of never said something like that. All I am trying to explain is the reality of a marriage. Also a girl with a psychology degree is basically useless in the United States. I have friends with psychology degrees working at Burger King. There is really know point in bringing up your point on an educated girl unless they have a useful skill. Almost 50% of the girls im talking to in Colombia are college students. If you have been looking since 99, you should be married now, why haven't you met someone if you are the so called expert and I am the immature, shallow person that doesn't know how this game works and if you do find someone in Colombia and she rakes up 10's of thousands of dollars on a credit card and divorces you, do not come crying on this board. When you become a sucker and don't use any street smarts, that is when you can get burned. So pardon me for looking out for red flags, that most guys won't spot a mile away.

... in response to Re: Please don't pay any attention to Mi..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

"There is really know point". First, want to correct this mistake for you. I am not an american though and my English is not perfect, but this is a terrible mistake. Know=No

Something else. I do not want to be rude, but let me tell you that you just seem like if you had bad experiences with women in general. I think that if you get the chance to go to Colombia, you will probably come back to the States without one, because you are just disqualified for any woman, Colombian, American or whatever. If you check here in the States, a North American woman will generaly (not always though)check if you have money or not. If you don't, you are just not qualified. You are a person full of prejudices, and that is a terrible mistake. You haven't been in Colombia or have you? How can you judge a place and its people when you don't even know it? I think that I might be losing my time responding to a person that might just be a "freek", not adapted and despised by women. Probably your opinion is just too insignificant to a lot of people, but just in case, this is what I think about you. And one thing, how can you compare Mexican women with Colombian??????? You must be a real nut case, you are in the da**mn dark!!!!!!! That is the most stupid thing I ever heard of. And for last, you should collect more information about Colombia. A college student in Colombia, has the opportunity to practice its career. At least these are the chances that has had the people that I know. Maybe your social circle is full of those kinds of people that you talk about (Frustrated). I've been in Colombia, and I have met several types of women. I am not going to lie and say (without knowing all of them), that they were all perfect. But the women I got to know, were the most fantastic people. I didn't marry one of them, because it wasn't the objective of my trip. But here in the States, I did find my woman, and suddenly, she is Colombian, and I thank God everyday for giving me such a wonderful woman. We have been together for 8 years, until now, she hasn't put me in bankrupt, neither has abbandoned me, all she has been doing, is make me happy!!!!!

Roberto

... in response to Re: Please don't pay any attention to Mi..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

There is really know point in bringing up your point on an educated girl unless they have a useful skill. "

Disagree,  a smart girl who knows how to study will hit the streets running and have a much better chance at adapting.

... in response to Re: Please don't pay any attention to Mi..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

mike, how old are you?.... 16???????.   after reading your post on mexican women compared to colombian women,and after your last post. you are so full of sh-t , its amazing!!!!! grow up , and quit wasting bandwidth on the internet.

... in response to Re: Please don't pay any attention to Mi..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

Brother Mike,

Let me throw your words right back at you to show you how shallow your are:

"All I am trying to explain is the reality of a marriage. Also a girl with a psychology degree is basically useless in the United States. I have friends with psychology degrees working at Burger King" (Mike, 2001).

Mike, I have one question for you. Are your friends useless?
You can't judge a person's worth, feelings, and intentions just on the type of degree he or she has. And I wouldn't use the type of degree a person has as a parameter to decide whether or not they should be a potential spouse. Take my advice. I'm working on a Ph.D. in psychology. I've been in school for 9 years straight. There are plenty of professors around my univerity, from all fields, that are total jack-offs.

As for having a bachelor's in psychology; hey it's a start. A bachelor's in psychology will definitly lead to further opportunities if the person decides to go to graduate school. A lady friend of mine from Bucaramanga, who has just finished her Ph.D. at my university in Educational Theory and Policy, will be bringing her nephew to the USA to visit graduate schools. He has a degree in psychology from a small private university in Bucaramanga, Colombia. Another reason why I respect this lady is because of this. Even though her and her husband can come to the USA to find high paying jobs in their fields, they have both decided to stay in Colombia. They don't want to leave their country just to chase a dream here. They believe that Colombia as a nation will never solve it's problems as long as the people keep fleeing the country. I really respect their attitudes.
BTW, my friend's husband has a Ph.D. in Civil Engineering from an American university.

As far as my pursuit and marital status is concerned, let me shed a little more light on you. If you continue this process, you'll come to find that to be successful, it takes time. Years, not months. Basically, I was 25 when I started searching. I was looking for a serious relationship that would lead to marriage. I didn't, and I still don't, want to get married until I finish school. I have other things going on in my life that I consider as equally important as finding a wife, for example my career. Right now, I don't want to set aside or delay my career goals for any woman. So, for the time being, I have laid off in the search. I'm 27 now.

Mike, you have allot to learn. Which is expected. You are still very young. Actually, it's good that you started posting on this board because you can learn from other peoples experiences, and gain some wisdom. If you learn from this process, you wont be like some others who make the same mistakes over and over again, picking the wrong type of women, and then one or two years later being divorced with pain in your hurt, and holding a grudge against all Latinos.

I'm not trying to boast, nor be an elitist. I'm just trying to help you, and anyone else, see things in another perspective.

Aaron

... in response to Re: Re: Please don't pay any attention t..., posted by Aaron on Nov 6, 2001

Ok your the same age as me, Im 27 in like 3 months. You have been in school for 9 years straight getting your PHD. I am happy for you, but have you been in the real working world at all? do you know what the real world is like? Your probably having mommy and daddy pay for your school or taking out student loans. I do well at my job, but I don't want a wife that is a domestic servant or slave, I want one with a brain that can work and help herself help her own family in Mexico, or Colombia or whereever instead of them coming to me and saying they need money for their family. Can you spot me a few grand? or whatever if they have there own money they are less dependent on you and it gives them more personal satisfaction. I don't want a double income for myself but for them. I have lived in latin countries before and believe it or not, there is a good chance this will happen if you get married to one. It is part of the culture. That is why I want a wife that can do well up here and that does not make me shallow.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Please don't pay any attenti..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

n/t

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Please don't pay any attenti..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

That is why I want a wife that can do well up here and that does not make me shallow.

No it does not!  I think you're palying it smart.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Please don't pay any attenti..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

No need to diss Aaron's people. Your immaturity is starting to stink up the place....

Later....much later I hope!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Please don't pay any attenti..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

Mike,

This is my last post about this.

No, I don't have any school loans to pay off. The universities have all paid for my education. You're quite ignorant to refer to my parents as "mommy and daddy". You don't have any respect.

As far as me living in the real world, yes. I live in the real world....DAYUUM!!!! Let me give you an example. Yesterday I was offered a decent salary for a job in DC. The week before that, I was offered a job to work for a company in Melbourne, Australia. If I take either one of these jobs, I REALLY will be living in the real world.

I'm done with this topic, it's getting out of hand.

Peace,
Aaron

... in response to Re: Please don't pay any attention to Mi..., posted by MIKE K on Nov 6, 2001

Mike,

It's great that you're happy with the decisions you've made with your life.  So, why would you need to make claims to dimish what other people have accomplished?  I'm sure you could see that being critical of one country didn't really make another country better.

How about women are individuals, just like men, and the values and chemistry that you bring to a relationship will determine success much more than geographics?  Could you agree with this?

... in response to Sounds like you're happy with your decis..., posted by HappyIdiot on Nov 6, 2001

Im not diminishing what anybody has accomplished, and when values and chemistry are what you feel them to be with that person, yet you still get burned in the end, then they have played you for a fool, and if you don't speak there language how do you know what their values or what the chemistry is, they may feel completely different about you and might be just along for the ride. Many of the guys who do not speak spanish do not know what these women are thinking. Geographics do play a major factor because when you have a large MOB industry in a country all the girls know how to play the game from there friends that have done it. Many in a sense become professional con-artists.It is the same way in Manilla to. Many have family in the United States and as soon as that green card comes in, there off to live with their relatives or friends in Chicago somewhere. Many of the girls I have been talking to in Colombia in SPANISH know the game, and if I tell them I am not interested in them. I tell them I have a friend or something and the first thing they ask is what does he do for a living? how much money does he make? does he have credit cards? then one even joked around and said she would marry one of my friends leave HIM AFTER A YEAR and she will give me a cut of the money. The more and more I get these girls to trust me, the more and more I find out because they know they don't have a chance in hooking up with me, AND THINK i AM THERE friend. All I am saying is be careful.

... in response to Re: Sounds like you're happy with your d..., posted by mike k on Nov 6, 2001

Geographics do play a major factor because when you have a large MOB industry in a country all the girls know how to play the game from there friends that have done it. Many in a sense become professional con-artists."

Man is this true..............we have seen the stories posted here!!!

But this does not mean all.  It means that you have to work harder. and better speak Spanish

... in response to Re: Sounds like you're happy with your d..., posted by mike k on Nov 6, 2001

Mike,

Just a few thoughts:

I speak spanish, and I have also met a few "hustlers" in Colombia. However, do I think that these "hustlers" were the norm for Colombianas? No.

I can guarantee you that somewhere here lurking, are guys that have ran into "hustlers" from Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, etc....so Colombia doesn't have the market cornered.

Having the advantage of speaking the language is fine and CAN work in your favor in meeting and screening women, DEPENDING on what you are screening for.

The BEST "hustlers" are NOT the ones that you see coming from a mile away....they are the ones that have their game "tight"...the ones that appear nice, and sweet, and innocent, but are scheming just the same.

Like the saying goes, "The punch that knocks you out is the one you didn't see."

Also keep in mind there are plenty of people in the U.S., Mexico, and Colombia, that are divorced...that have the SAME language in common. In a relationship, speaking the same language is NOT the same thing as "communication". -This fact, along with reasoning and method of mate selection, expectations, and a host of other factors larger than language proficiency, are the reasons for a large number of divorces -regardless of country.

Everyone has his own reasons for choosing one place over another to "search". These reasons include proximity, physical characteristics or basic educational levels found in a particular geographic area, as well as the values and cultural behavior traits found typically amongst the people.

Many guys consider a balance of different factors in deciding what is the "best" choice for them.

You don't need to rationalize your choice of a Mexicana by labeling all good-looking Colombianas as bad choices; unintelligent, scheming, etc.

Simply make your choice, and leave it at that.

Realistically, if you've made a choice, that is just the beginning. Until your "feelings" are involved, this is all just talk...a concept.

Once you have committed and your "feelings" are in it, and the dynamics of your relationship with your chosen woman develop, THEN and only then, will you know what you are TRULY dealing with.

Until that time, be careful...temper your thoughts and conduct because Karma can be a merciless teacher.

You might one day find yourself crushed, wishing you had searched elsewhere...because a sweet, innocent Mexicana took you for a ride.

just .02

Tai

... in response to Re: Re: Sounds like you're happy with yo..., posted by Tai on Nov 6, 2001

tai dont forget all the many many hustlers in the good ole USA. yes there are hustlers in colombia and everywhere else in the world but i think you can find many honest sincere ladies in colombia.

... in response to Re: Re: Sounds like you're happy with yo..., posted by Tai on Nov 6, 2001

Well done....Well said!!!

Peace....Hoda

... in response to Re: Sounds like you're happy with your d..., posted by mike k on Nov 6, 2001

Soy uno de los hombres aqui que hablan español y creo que estas hablando por tu culo.  I too had women I became friends with and they knew there was no chance of us getting together.  I never heard anything remotely like what you're claiming.

Yes, there are some women who will use men, but I've seen failed marriages (two of them).  In both cases, the women returned to Colombia.  Neither were "using" the men for green cards as seems to be the popular opinion of the uninformed.  I think there are very very few ladies who want to use a man to get to the US and then dump him.  Most are not the driven career types and are looking to a man for support as well as love.

And where on earth did you come up with a 50% failure rate for gringo/colombiana marriages?

I think you're just paranoid and are making up stories to support your paranoid position.

... in response to Re: Re: Sounds like you're happy with yo..., posted by Patrick on Nov 6, 2001

"Your just paranoid and making up stories to support your paranoid position" hehehe. Patrick, Mike sound like a TROLL to me. His Posts doesn't make any Sense...

... in response to Re: Sounds like you're happy with your d..., posted by mike k on Nov 6, 2001

I think it is also likely that some marriages or relationships fail, not because of malicious intent, but because of incompatibility.  Hopefully most of the participants of this board fall into the sincere category rather than the player and user category.

Because so much of what you are saying is unsupported by fact, you might want to try to appear little more open to other people's opinions.  After all, if you're right, then what you say won't require proving someone else wrong.  I think even within this board, there are many people using different approaches with success.  It seems very unlikely that there is only one way.