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Yikes!!  According to the Dateline NBC's report last Friday night, geraldo riveria reported that I think there were a backlog of 200,000 visa applications at the Bogota embassy.  (Can anyone verify this because I hear it  on the fly?....)
  Of course, none of Colombia's many positive points were mentioned-the friendly people, wonderfully stunningly beautiful women, Colombia's Copa Championship and fiesta atmosphere- and all the negatives were emphasized continually-the drug war, violations of human rights, and the communist threat of FARC.
  Please, anyone, tell me what you thought of Dateline's report.

                                          sincerely,

                                          Larry in Dallas

... in response to Dateline NBC's report of Colombia last F..., posted by Larry in Dallas on Sep 3, 2001

Just a reminder that things are not so peaceful outside the cities:

September 4, 2001 Posted: 4:07 PM EDT (2007 GMT)
BOGOTA, Colombia (AP) -- The director of the foreign branch of Colombia's secret police is missing following a weekend abduction at his farm outside Bogota, the police agency said Tuesday.

Ramiro Carranza, of the Department of Administrative Security, or DAS, was abducted by three gunmen wearing camouflage fatigues on Sunday morning near Quetame, 25 miles southeast of Bogota. Rebels of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, known as the FARC, operate in the area.

... in response to Re: DAS Director kidnapped..........., posted by NW Jim on Sep 5, 2001

How ironic is that. The director of the "secret" police gets kidnapped at his house.

That...is classic.

Tai

... in response to Dateline NBC's report of Colombia last F..., posted by Larry in Dallas on Sep 3, 2001

The situation in Colombia is no joke, there is a mass exoddus of people going on in Colombia, if you think these people are leaving just for the heck of it you need to get a clue.

In addition to the problems highlighted in the Rivera report there is also a high rate of unemployment and crime in Colombia, serious stuff.

LID, I thought the report was interesting and very insightful.

As for all the negatives being highlighted, the report was on the problems in Colombia and Plan Colombia.

... in response to Are you blind Pack?, posted by JUAN on Sep 4, 2001

stop the panic juan you are scaring yourself! first off everyone know that Rivera is the biggest scare mongor in all of the media! there has always been a long line at the embassy for the u s a. yea the economy sucks,yea there is a war going on there, yea they have crime...its been like that since i have been going to colombia in 1997...so whats new? if you base your decisions on the media especially these Rivera type shows you'll never even leave your house to go to the grocery store. calm down juan..sheeeesh your gonna get a heart attack before i do.

there is crime everywhere, just read the reports on this board, peru,brazil,mexico,phillipines,russia, and good ol u s a . every man on this board knows the chances we take going south to find the one ...but we do it anyway, we dont let Rivera scare us away .i have a friend here from brazil , he says crime in brazil is much worse that in cali.

... in response to Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by pack on Sep 4, 2001

Pack you missed my point. My point was that the situation in Colombia is VERY real, it is no joke. Geraldo Rivera  was just reporting on the facts of the situation in Colombia.

Do you really think Geraldo Rivera and NBC brass were sitting around when they were  planning this report saying "let's do this report on Colombia so we can scare away the foreignors looking for wives in Colombia?"

Do you think Colombia wants bad press? Do you think they want to lose tourism? Especially considering the state of the economy there? That report could not have been done without permission from the Colombian government, Rivera even interviewed Andres Pastrana.

I've talked to many, many Colombians on the situation there, they love and miss their country but concede that life is better and safer here. I know a guy that was a doctor in Colombia, know what he's doing now? Washing dishes in a restaurant.

Also, yes, there is crime all around the world but the crime statistics in US cities do not come even close to crime statistics in lots of cities around the world.

I read somewhere that the murder rate in Colombia is the highest in the hemisphere, the murder rate in Rio De Janeiro, Brazil is 25 a day.

Also in other countries the police force is just as bad, if not worse than the criminals they are supposed to be going after.

Police officers in the US get a bum rap but imho they are the best in the world.

... in response to Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by JUAN on Sep 4, 2001

im sorry your rambling has totally lost me. you say colombias crime is worst in the hemisphere, then you turn around and say Rio has 25 killings a day? you knock the police of the other countries then make ours sound like Gods....wheree do yo get this information? of course Rivera and NBC are focusing on colombia, Bagdad and Bosnia have already been bombed into submission. now the media needs a new story...lets try colombia! the fact is the colombian wars have been going on for thirty something years ..and Geraldo is just now making his way down there?

i never said the situation in colombia was a joke ...the joke is its always been going on , still is , and probably will continue. my point is you cant stop living because a region has political problems. you cant go anywhere in the world without encountering some type of problems.how many countries can you name that dont have some sort of problems?

look at russia,phillipines,brazil,peru,mexico,china,malaysa,edqudor,venezuela presidente is buddying up with castro,middle east, africa,etc etc. so times are bad in colombia...you suggesting we all stay home or what?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by pack on Sep 4, 2001

Do you really think Geraldo Rivera did that report with the intent of 'scaring' foreignors away from looking for wives there? Do you not see the lunacy in that logic?

Pack, I guess you as a foreignor can downplay the situation in Colombia and refer to reports on it as 'scare tactics' but that's because you've probably got a nice job here, a nice savings account and the golden parachute.....American Citizenship, if things ever get too hot for you in Colombia you're on the first plane back to the greatest country in the world.

Unfortunately, for the Colombian people in Colombia it's not as easy as that.

I rest my case.

... in response to I ask again, posted by JUAN on Sep 5, 2001

and once again i answer...he didnt do it to scare people away he did it fo...THE RATINGS!

... in response to Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by pack on Sep 4, 2001

Pack,

I think you have been tivializing the current condition of Colombia.

From my statement, don't think I have negative impressions about Colombia or it's beautiful and friendly people. However, I deeply admire the culture and attitudes of most law abiding Colombians living there, as well as in the USA.

This is not an issue about justifying your pursuits of travelling to Colombia to meet women. It's fine and dandy that you like Colombian women, and are travelling to the country to meet such women. Most interested men wouldn't.

However, look at the facts. Colombia has high rates of unemployement, last time I heard the unemployment rate was 25%. High rates of kidnapping, car bombs, socio-economic inequity, and an enormous foreign debt that will take decades for the nation to pay off. Also, not to mention that because of such debt, the government as cut many social programs for poorer people, as well as made enormous cuts in pensions for governmental employees. In addition to this, funding for public education, as well as for faculty salaries at public universities has been cut. These are some of the social issues that Colombia has been facing beyond the rebel and paramilitary groups. Also, I would like to mention this. The involvement of the IRA training the rebels how to make high-tech explosives is highly critical. This can add a whole new dimension to the warfare that has been going on. The use of high-tech explosives makes the bombing in the cities more dangerous, along with the elusiveness of the culprits. With these types of bombs, the cities can become unmanageable terror zones. One good thing about the DMZ is that now the Colombian Army has somewhat an idea about where the FARC is located. But, just think what would happen if the zone didn't exist. FARC rebels would be migrating throughout the rural areas of the country, hitting places with bombs and other acts of violence, then moving to other locations. This is why it is hard to defeat guerrillas.

Pack, it is fine that you like to jump from agency to agency; however, you need to investigate more thoroughly about the condition Colombia is in to get a better idea why many of the girls you are meeting have began to look for husbands from other countries. I am not saying that it is bad for these women to look for men that can offer them a better way of life. That is not a bad thing. For some it may be the best thing. But, for others, it may be the worst depending on the people involved in the relationship.

P.S. You better hope that the guerrilas never learn about the agencies in Cali. You might get kidnapped on your next cita. I can imagine it now, the mamacita invites you to Juanchito, but suddenly the taxi turns down a dark alley. A year later, I see your face on the side of a milk carton.
HA HA HA!!!! Only a joke, but not impossible.

I, myself, like going to the agencies. Also, I try to have a little more sensitivity for the turmoil that has been happening, and I try to respect the concerns of Colombians both there and in the USA.  

Chau,
Aaron

... in response to Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by Aaron on Sep 4, 2001

P.S. You better hope that the guerrilas never learn about the agencies in Cali. You might get kidnapped on your next cita. I can imagine it now, the mamacita invites you to Juanchito, but suddenly the taxi turns down a dark alley. A year later, I see your face on the side of a milk carton.
HA HA HA!!!! Only a joke, but not impossible. "

Only a fool would think they don't know about the gringo and the agencies.  They just don't want them.  Too much heat!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by Raptor on Sep 5, 2001

CORRECT!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by Raptor on Sep 5, 2001

Raptor,

Good point. It is definitly too much heat for the guerrillas to start kidnapping gringos from the agencies.
However, I believe that we have been very lucky, rather I should say blessed so far.

However, my point is this. If the guerrillas wanted to get nasty with the USA, which isn't beyond them, they could easily send a foxy mamacita to "Norm's Place." All she has to do is invite us out for the evening; then the next morning, we're bound and gagged in the jungle. Really, If you think about it, they can do this without the Colombian Army or USA even knowing that a guerrilla group did it. It's like this, "one minute I see you, the next minute you're gone without anyone knowing your whereabouts or who you were with." It's easy.

The figures say that 30% of the guerrillas are female. From the photos I've seen, they look just as good as the girls in the agencies.... Who knows, maybe some of the girls that we've met, seen in the books and websites, etc., etc., have joined the guerrilla groups.... They pay more than the minimum wage. Just something to think about.

La Paz,
Aaron

... in response to Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by Aaron on Sep 4, 2001

im convinced!!! im never going back to cali. my next trip will be to...hmmmmmmmm how about Boise Idaho, thats pretty safe place...naw to cold. San diego yea thats it San Diego my next trip!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by pack on Sep 4, 2001

naw, san diego sucks. i live here. 4 men to every girl. the ratio realy stinks here.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by muddslinger on Sep 4, 2001

o k ,where then..colombia is to dangerous says Geraldo and montanas to cold and san diego sucks ...now where???

... in response to Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by Aaron on Sep 4, 2001

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over the IRA agents cuaght in Bogota. After all they haven't leveled Dublin yet with their expertise. Besides the FARC have for some time now been using household cooking gas cylinders very efectively to blow the bejeesus out of rural towns when they want to. On some other matters: don't think for a minute the FARC and ELN don't know about the agencies. They're not dumb, the agencies are all over the internet which you can be sure they moniter for many reasons just like everybody else. Besides if every taxi driver in Cali who has ever picked up a gringo amd most women in Cali know why wouldn't the FARC?

On the economy yes there are terrible negatives but it isn't all black. Look at today's headlines in El Pais, the Cali paper. It says construction is moving along nicely on the new bridge over Pasoancho and all the associated street widening projects thanks to taxes. It also says that foreign investment in Colombia in the first half of 2001 is more than six times what it was in all of 2000. On other programs: did you know there is a housing subsidy program for individuals in estrato 1 in the towns? Aproximately one hundred grants depending on population size are given to individuals in estrato 1 in each pueblo who can show a bank savings account of seven hundred thousand pesos ($350). This is to buy the lot. If they qualify they are given a grant of fourteen thousand pesos ($7000) to build a house. This is one government program and there are others.

I think Pack is right, for gringos hanging out in Cali in the sexta area or Ciudad Jardin in the south there is no more danger than in any big city anywhere in the world.

While Colombia is undeniably a dangerous country I have to say that the last time I was off the beaten path (El Valle, Choco on the Pacific coast) I ran into an American couple from New York (puertoriqueno and colombiana) a couple from France (no Spanish, their first time in Colombia) and a Polish couple in their 20s who'd bumbled into the guerilla in eastern Colombia (everyone surprised.) So sure it's dangerous out there but you know? the rest of the world is not as terrified as we are. The most common foreign tourists in Santa Marta? The Brits!  

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack? No he's ..., posted by Cali vet on Sep 4, 2001

Cali-Vet,

Nice info. Are you considering relocating to Colombia in the near future? I'm sure that you can definitly apply and acquire the housing subsidies. However, ask yourself "what is the percentage of Colombians that CANNOT show that amount of money up front?" Not just for the plot of land, but also for building the house. Don't forget to consider the people outside of the bigger cities. The people that live in the rural areas, where the reality of life is totally different than the plush neighborhoods of Ciudad Jardin. Also, keep in mind there is more than having the cash up front for land and building a house. Surely you realize this. What about maintance? What about telephone bills? What about insurance? Electricity and such. Livinging expenses. I know Cali is your old stomping grounds, that's why you call yourself "Cali-Vet." But, you have to admitt, the country is struggling with problems that is causing discomfort for every law abiding and patriotic Colombian person.

Another issue is this. If you and your boy "Pack" were Colombians born and raised, living there with family, children, parents, grandparents, and such; you would preceive the turmoil there differently. You would become worried; hoping and preying for resolutions for the problems. However, you're not a Colombian. You don't have to live there for a second. You can always hop a plane, and fly back to your place in the USA, eat 3 healthy meals a day, look in your bank account, lay on your bed, roll over a couple of times, buy a new outfit, and plan for your next trip down south when ever you would like to go.

Also, I want to say this. Even though I prefer Calenas and I like Colombia. I realize that there is a whole world to explore and enjoy. When I meet Mrs. Right, that mamacita and I are going to travel the globe and forget about the Narcos, FARC, ELN, AUC, and what ever other ABCs come on the scene.

Nos Vemos,
Aaron

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack? No h..., posted by Aaron on Sep 4, 2001

Aaron

You completely bumbled the information I passed along in my post above regarding the home subsidy program. Either pay attention or just skip it.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack? No h..., posted by Aaron on Sep 4, 2001

It's refreshing to see someone on this board that tries to look at the situation in Colombia through the eyes of the Colombian people.

Objective and realistic.

... in response to Great Post Aaron, posted by JUAN on Sep 5, 2001

Juan,

Thank you for your support. I really like Colombia. I have many professional Colombian friends, as well as some friends that are from poorer areas of the country. I also have Colombian friends who recently immigrated to the USA.
Both groups of Colombians, here and there, all feel uneasy about the situation there. Also, the Colombians here in the USA have an additional issue because not only their homeland is being terrorized, they have to find a way to assimilate into the American social and economic structure. As soon as they got here, they quickly realized that "our streets are not paved with gold" nor can the "American Dream" be quickly realized for everyone.

Last time I was in Colombia, I was in Giron, near Bucaramanga de Santander. For those that don't know about Giron, this is the small town where the brother of one of the leaders of the FARC was recently murdered. I was so surprised when reading the news yesterday, realizing that I had been there just one year ago. Also, I went into the Chicamocha mountain ranges and to the river. These places are frequently used by guerrillas for travel routes at night. During the day, they were safe given two or three small military camps with 5 to 10 soldiers. In these mountains, I never will forget, I saw a little boy and girl chasing our car down the mountain side, asking for a little money for something to eat. My friend, which was a Colombian man kept driving. He said that in Colombia people have became insensitive to beggers. I felt bad about that because I could have gave a little something, but I didn't. However, as soon as I got back to the city, I gave about 10 dollars, which still isn't much, to the next begger I saw.
I made a promise to myself, that the next time I go back, if I go back because one never knows where God will send them, that I'm going to take about $1000.00 to give to a Catholic orphanage in Cali. This is also another issue. What about the refugees that have been displaced in various locations? What about the children that will be without parents when all this violence is over? Think about that CAli-Vet and Pack.

Take care Juan.

... in response to Re: Great Post Aaron, posted by Aaron on Sep 5, 2001

The guy who got killed by "unknown gunmen" last week (Saturday, I think) in Giron was the brother of the leader of ELN, not FARC.

Say, what can you tell me about Bucaramanga? My lady is from there, but I haven't been down there yet(planning to go in this December, when she gets her vacation).

As far as taking the rebel situation seriously, recently ELN murdered her cousin and in a seperate incident they kidnapped 3 people she works with....sounds serious enough to me.

... in response to Actually......, posted by Michael B on Sep 5, 2001

Yo Mike,

Thanks for clearing that up. You're right because the ELN is closer in position to Giron than the FARC. Giron is about an hour drive away from Bucaramanga, from what I can remember. Chicamocha is about 2 to 3 hours of driving south. At this point in time, I wouldn't go to the places where I had been last year. So, I would stay in the city if I were you.  

B/manga is very clean, organized, and classy in most of the downtown areas. It is smaller than Cali, but larger than Cartagena. The city is very nice. I liked it allot. It has 2 San Andresitos and 2 Malls. So if you need to go shopping, you can. In Bucaramanga there is a really nice area called Canaveral. A beautiful neighborhood, with nice shopping areas.

The people of B/manga are very patriotic and friendly. The professional people there dress very elegant on a daily basis. Most of the people have indian features, but there are some whites, blacks, mestizos, and mulattos. Before I went there, my Colombian friends had told me that B/manga has some of the most beautiful women in the country. When I got there, I realized that they were telling me the truth. The women are very stunning and polished. Not too much Salsa in B/manga though, but allot of Ranchera. I'm not a big fan if Ranchera. I love Salsa. That's one of the reasons why I like Calenas so much.

There are two agencies that I know of in B/mamga. One is affiliated with a travel agency downtown, never been to it though. The other is a little outside of downtown, and it is operated by a guy named Christan Diaz. He charged me $200 for a yearly membership. I didn't fuss about the price because on vacation my whole objective is to have a good time....given the budget I'm on.

I'm sure you'll like your stay. Enjoy your trip.
Aaron

... in response to Dateline NBC's report of Colombia last F..., posted by Larry in Dallas on Sep 3, 2001

typical media crapola! oooo..scarey! its all about ratings.good....more scarey media reports means less gringos which equals more chicas for the rest of us.