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Having just returned from Cali I have a few thoughts about Latino bashing (and my name is actually Jim
not Diego I'm completely white north american but my heart and soul is latin), But I find that the same
Latin men we criticize (and I have been guilty of generalizing)  are the same ones who make friends with you very
easily I met several cool latin guys on the trip.  And while the machoistic society gives us a great opportunity to
show these women real love and appreciation, these guys aren't so bad they are full of good information and
advice and welcomed me to their country as an amigo.  Also the woman of your dreams probably has a Father,
Uncle, brother(s).  While I'm not saying cheating and pysical or mental abuse is okay not all of the guys
down there are guilty of it.  I asked several of the women why the situation exists and one said "the guys
can't help it they are brought up that way I just don't want it"  Some of them are changing and becoming
more faithfull to one women but they live in a land surrounded by incredible woman it makes you crazy.
I say lets be an example of something better as americans and at the same time try not to judge. Just a few thoughts.
D

... in response to Latino bashing, posted by Diego A. on Jul 25, 2001

Yes, good point. And as I mentioned over on LWL previously, I met a Dominicano here in Spain who is not a machista, and he explained to me a little about how the women have their own game: a man tries to pick up a woman, and many times if she finds out he is single, she's not interested. But if she finds out he already has a girlfriend or a wife, that old competitiveness/jealousy kicks in, and she's interested, like she wants to prove she's better than the other woman(en).
 I find what he said (that women play their own part in womanizing) believable since, if these Latin men are all out running around and cheating, who are they doing it with, each other?
  I met a Colombiano this week who told me he was a "gigolo" in Barranquilla: he had a cool car with a loud stereo and would go out cruising and be quite successful picking up girls for sex (we had been talking about how unapproachable Spanish women are), and he might have half a dozen girlfriends at a time. He didn't mention what he would have done if half of them wound up pregnant one month, though we on this board can guess--not his problem. But it takes two to tango, and these girls know the rules of the game when they let themselves be seduced.

  Anyway, the other guys who have responded to this thread have done so to say that Latino men are not all bad. I agree, and am adding that Latina women aren't innocent in what makes some Latino men bad.

... in response to Re: Latino bashing, posted by Bueller on Jul 25, 2001

You are absolutely right about that "other side of the coin". I know many latin women who routinely have affairs with married men, some because they are naive and think the man loves them, and many others for a good time or for the sport of it (as you say, to see if they can one-up the wife).

Mi novia thinks that Latin women can be extremely predatory in this respect. Aside from her inner beauty and charm, my sweetie has a model's looks and figure. No foolin', all my buddies are wondering how I snagged her, and there is NO WAY I am walking away from this relationship! She is clearly the best thing that has EVER happened to me. She has nothing to fear, yet she worries that some other Latina will stroll along and pluck me off the tree without hesitation. As if I were helpless to stop it!

Just snother aspect of the different culture having its way in her mind; men are hopelessly prone to stray, and women can only tolerate and endure and hope to fight off other women. I have told her time and again that it is different in my country, as she will soon see, and that in the good old US of A I could never even dream of being with a woman as fabulous as she is. I keep telling her how lucky I am, but she seems to think she's the one with all the luck. Go figure.

... in response to Re: Latino bashing, posted by Bueller on Jul 25, 2001

Hello Bueller - ¿cómo te va en España?  Espero que todo estás bien contigo.  I had a novia in Caracas and we were talking about some of her past relationships.  She mentioned that a few of them were married so she knew the relationships would not last.  I kind of wondered to myself how she could let herself get involved with a married man because she always complained that the men were not failthful and had more than one woman.  She was part of the problem.  But I really think it happened more when she was a younger woman and was more easily seduced.

Take care in Spain.

... in response to Re: Latino bashing, posted by Bueller on Jul 25, 2001

so, are women in spain completly unapproachable, as you mentioned. i have heard that they are the most difficult in the whole world!

how about posting a note or two about the women of spain so we can make some educated comparisions between them and ladies of south america.

if you live in spain, are the other european nationalities your only bet for a nice date (i.e. germans). i'm no huge fan of the language, but there some attractive german women.

also, for those of us that have a lot of travel experience in s.a., but unfortunatly have never been to spain, can you tell us how it is that you came to live there. and how you like the culture, food, flamenco, etc.

hey, thanks in advance,     bret

p.s. can you work there as an american, if in fact you are a citizen of the u.s.a.?

... in response to Re: Re: Latino bashing, posted by bret on Jul 25, 2001

I have written about my experiences in Spain at some length on LWL. I'm due for another writeup soon and I'll post it here too. If you want to look up my Spain stuff in the archives, here's how to do it:
 Send a headerless message SUBSCRIBE LATIN-WOMEN-L YOUR NAME to LISTSERV@Maelstrom.StJohns.edu . Right away the server sends back a confirmation message and then a message with posting instructions/guidelines. If you just want access to the archives and don't want to have regular messages sent to you, you can go "nomail" right away. You can search the archives as soon as you're subscribed.

  Cliff's Notes on Spanish women: they certainly have their fine qualities, but you're on the right track looking in LA instead.

... in response to Latino bashing, posted by Diego A. on Jul 25, 2001

You're absolutely right, it is unfair to generalize. I spend a lot of time in LA, have many good friends there whom I admire greatly. And yes, our beloved Latinas have fathers, brothers, etc whom we should respect and are probably not even guilty of the errors we hear about so often.

However, the Latin culture is much more tolerant of maltreatment of women than any other I have experienced (including Eastern European). As a result, many otherwise nice guys (my friends included) have girls on the side while they are actually married or engaged. The women all know this, but if it is not a public spectacle they don't have to acknowledge it. Of all the men I know in LA, I can count on one hand those who are not like this. Thankfully, they are all future in-laws.

I agree, Latino bashing should be avoided. But also remember that as a gringo you have a different set of values which are seen as attractive to Latin women, and this makes you different and preferable as a husband. As you are making friends with Latin men (and by this I mean men in Latin America, as opposed to those who live in our North American culture), simply be aware that in the context of your friendship you are recognizing and accepting, but not necessarily condoning the differences between you and him.

... in response to Latino bashing, posted by Diego A. on Jul 25, 2001

You're absolutely right, it is unfair to generalize. I spend a lot of time in LA, have many good friends there whom I admire greatly. And yes, our beloved Latinas have fathers, brothers, etc whom we should respect and are probably not even guilty of the errors we hear about so often.

However, the Latin culture is much more tolerant of maltreatment of women than any other I have experienced (including Eastern European). As a result, many otherwise nice guys (my friends included) have girls on the side while they are actually married or engaged. The women all know this, but if it is not a public spectacle they don't have to acknowledge it. Of all the men I know in LA, I can count on one hand those who are not like this. Thankfully, they are all future in-laws.

I agree, Latino bashing should be avoided. But also remember that as a gringo you have a different set of values which are seen as attractive to Latin women, and this makes you different and preferable as a husband. As you are making friends with Latin men (and by this I mean men in Latin America, as opposed to those who live in our North American culture), simply be aware that in the context of your friendship you are recognizing and accepting, but not necessarily condoning the differences between you and him.

... in response to Good Point, posted by Viajero on Jul 25, 2001

Very well said.  It's an odd situation one that boggles my mind that you would think the Latin guys living with the most gorgeous creatures on earth in South America
would say "Hey if we don't shape up we are going to lose
our women" But their opportunity lost is an opportunity for us americans IF we are worthy of it.
D.

... in response to Latino bashing, posted by Diego A. on Jul 25, 2001

Diego(Jim),
We do genralize here and I guess it does seem like latino bashing,but many of the Colombians do not treat their women well.Of course that is not all Colombians.But the women who have had this problem(like my wife) are over represented in the agencies.My wifes loves her father and her brother.I like her brother but he has 2 kids by 2 women he does not support. My wife admits the father of her child is a real jerk and she was foolish to get involved with him.When we were fighting custody issues in January the director of a Colombian social agency took her aside and said,"this is a bad man,why did you choose him for the father of your child?"
Colombians are great people.The guys in general have attitudes not faviorable to women,and some of them are really bad.My wife was telling me what womanizers her granfathers were.Its funny to her now.It probably wasn't funny to grandma at the time.
This is an important part of the reason some Colombians are looking for a foriegn husband and people need to know about it.

Pete