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I read part 8 i am truly surprised and I would not want to be in your place if I was a man.  I felt panic when I read about narcotraficantes.i would advise you to forget about cali for a while.  probably you gringos don't know how these narcotraficantes act when some one tampers with their woman. I would say that it was a very good idea that you have found out that Sandra was involved in this class of people. It terified me that knowing this you continued to see Sandra.  I am not criticizing nor judging you for the attraction that you feel for her or for any woman that is involved in this. Probably you will not believe me because I am a young woman and you think that I don't have experience with these narcotraficantes, but I do and I will tell my story later.

Carolina

Also, how did you learn English so well?  My fiance is in Bogota right now to get her visa and should be here next week.  She knows poco engles pero vaya al collegio communidad para clases. Los classses sera para tres horas cada dia, para 16 semanas.

Hasta lluego,
Mike

Jim,

I met your ex a few times and she struck me as a very smart and classy woman, truly and I liked her.  Perhaps I'm naive but I wonder what otherwise intelligent women like her and H2-OH's Sandra are doing with these big mafioso types. What's the attraction to men who are thugs at best?

Second, I know that the mafia runs deep in Cali and even into families of people we may know and like, nevertheless I wouldn't date an ex of a mafia guy in a million years. I don't want to sound harsh but with so many women available with absolutely NO ties to the mafia, I'm a little surprised by both you and H2-OH.  

El Diablo

I'm aware that Cali was built on cartel money and very few rich people are not connected in some way.  I have rich friends here in California but in Cali I try to stay away from the well to do and their wannabees as much as possible.  It's not the money but where it comes from and how it is kept that bothers me.

It's not always easy to see but their is a middle and upper middle class in Cali that has little if no connection to the mafia nor wish to be.  These are decent people, often times professionals or entrepreuners who have made their money through hard work.  They may not send their sons and daughters to the U.S. for education nor drive BMW's but they do attend universities and perhaps drive cars, albeit cheaper ones.  Many of the middle class have regular jobs, not necessarily shop girls or manicurists as you put it but jobs in banks, jobs as teachers and jobs as accountants.  They do many of the jobs the mafia have no interest in nor have the education to do.

It's true we learn things about people with time that we may have had no idea about in the beginning.  This happens everywhere but in Cali what we sometimes learn is not pleasant.  I beleive MOB relationships are risky adventures at best and ripe for these kind of discoveries.  The lack of time to get to know a person, the language problems and cultural misunderstandings all play a part.  Cali seems to be a particularly risky place, their is a very sleazy side to some of the culture, with the mafia and such and all the agency shananigans.

I think many guys are surprised by H2-OH's story and see it somehow as a big soap opera, perhaps something bigger than life that could never happen to them.   I'm not surprised by it at all and have witnessed at least a half dozen of these melodramas in Cali. I found myself getting pulled into the middle of a stupid melodrama last year and the only thing that saved me from further greif was that I cut all ties with the people involved. Sometimes that's not an easy choice.  

The truth is, the agency sub-culture has all the ingrediants of a soap opera, old guys chasing beautiful young women,  travel to exotic places where danger lurks around every corner, guys and gals proclaiming "love" in record times, just for start.  Throw a few armed robberies at agency safe houses into the mix with sex, mafia connections, dishonesty and very unrealistic expectations of everyone involved and travel to Cali is a soap opera "smash" waiting to happen.

El Diablo

El Diablo

Peace....Hoda (The other Howard)

I have read all 8 parts of the ongoing "saga". My first instinct is to say melodrama, because it appears to me that you walked into the situation with your eyes open...and at some level were seeking or expecting some kind of "drama" to result from it.

Many guys talk about how to spot red flags, and what to do when you do. In this case the question is what do you do when YOU yourself are the red flag. -From one girl to the other then back to the first...then marry her and you hadn't even kissed her? Then you're talking about paying for psychologists, then continuing to deal with her while she's tied to Mafioso?

Initially, I took it as you presented it, your story...told in efforts to help other guys out there from making the same mistakes you did. While I am not doubting you story, because truth is often stranger than fiction, it seems as though you have been turning the story itself into a "drama" event, stretching it out like a serial/soap opera.

"Will Howard make it back to the apartment in time?...or will Johanna and Diego succeed in their fiendish plot?...Will the mafioso discover the secret meeting?..Tune in tomorrow..."

Come on man, really. This is not a question of whether or not you are a good guy, nor is it a question of how large a percentage of ladies in the agencies are players. This is waaaay deeper than that. It is really about YOU, and the work that you need to do. Maybe this "series" is part of that, a purging process, or maybe not...noone but you really knows that.

I would typically guess situations like these would leave some sizable wounds. However, I am guessing that you already had "wounds" that needed treating way before you ever ventured to Colombia.

Hopefully you will find and address where the problems truly are, otherwise your "my story" installments will continue in the same dramatic fashion...OR..they may end tragically.

A fool is not a man that makes mistakes, nor is it a man that makes poor choices.

A fool is a man that continues to repeat poor choices and expect a different result.

just an opinion(more than .02 this time)

Tai

ps - "If you're bleeding in the water, the sharks will come."

How much you wanna bet there was alcohol present during alot of this?  I hope so cuz that way we can blame it on the booze, if not....uhhhhh.

Later,
Mike

HD

HD

I'm guessing but I'd guess there are several thousand women in the agencies of Cali.  I believe that most of them are regular normal women, with problems surely as we all have them, however not players or socio-paths either.  I believe that of the several thousand, only about 30% get much interest from the gringos.  I saw it at Latin Love, day in and day out, the same women had appointments over and over again.  However the remaining 70% received very little interest.  Some of the women who received no interest are quite attractive but perhaps they were a little older or a step or two below "babe" level.  Among the group that receives a lot of attention, I think that the percentage of players is extremely high.  If you look at the whole group of agency women however the percentage is much more modest.  

I have some opinions as to the increasing numbers of players in Cali.  For the women players, it's easy access to dollars, plain and simple.   For the gringo players, Cali is fantasy island with a steady stream of 20 year old honey's and easy sex.  

If you talk to ordinary people in Cali who aren't otherwise associated with the MOB industry,  many of them are suspicious of matrimony agencies in general and their male and female members in particular.  When I lived in Cali, at least one of the TV stations kept playing this documentary of a MOB relationship gone bad.  It was a terrible story and hopefully unrepresentative of the vast majority of relationships but nevertheless it has helped to create or further a stigma. The stigma is real and to some extent justified. A Calena friend of mine who I know to be a woman of character, quit the agency scene a month or so back.  She said, I don't want to belong to any agencies anymore.  She was aware of recent model agency/tours and felt like they gave the appearance of something funny.   Even the appearance was sufficient for her to say "no more".

I think the problem in Cali is that we have at least two or more groups of people with very different agendas.  On one hand, we have the Club Med crowd, guys and gals who are having a good time with life and not particularly serious about marriage.  On the other hand, we have people who are very serious about marriage and in the near term.  These two groups don't mix very well as you might imagine but in Cali there are very strong ties between them, starting at the agency and working down through the members.  I don't particularly care what people do or don't do in their own private lives however I think a clearer line needs to be drawn between the groups.

El Diablo

The 70% who are below the babe level, maybe have a few mone years or children, there are some extraordinary women and most are NOT PLAYERS.  If we use the same standards we did when we were 16 (looks and size of breasts) the we will meet at lot of 16 year old girls (mentally) who are attracted to you by the car we drive.

Jim

There's something to be said for NOT getting on the first plane but rather writing a woman or group of women.  I think writing is especially good for discovering what a person believes in and a woman's level of education.  You can learn a lot about her without getting too caught up in her appearance.

El Diablo

You can't buy love, not even in MOB.

I think the women who look like models are the ones you should stay away from unless you're close to that level as a man as well.  Heck, even if I were a hunk type, I still don't think I ever would have gone for that type.  I've dated some women like that (Americans) and I think they're way more likely to be lacking in other areas than a more "normal" woman.  When you look like that you don't have to have any character, compassion, or even be a good person to be popular.  I certainly wouldn't say incredible looks are incompatible with other qualities, but I do think there's a correlation.  I think that's something that trancends culture.  To a certain extent, men are men and women are women the world over.

Later,
Mike

Once again your story is compelling. I have question for you. Are concerned for your safety while in Cali after these events?  She apparently has contacts in the cartel and possibly even worse.  If she were to get angry and try and get even with you, you would make a very good target for one of her nasty friends, especially the urban ELN folks that likely have a following in Cali.  You apparently have a fair bit of money from your business concerns.  It could be arranged to grab you and maybe she gets a split of the profits. If I were you, I would be bit more concerned about this scenario in your upcoming trips, particularly if you find another chica.

take care,
mike

This story is the poster story for "A Check Up from the Neck Up".  Enableing, Co-dependency, Low Self Worth, Low Self Esteem,  Eating Disorders...

But you touched upon something I was wondering about myself...along with every other element of a soap opera...a jealous Colombian "Bad Guy" with a few peso's and a friend or 2 with a motorbike could easily put an end to this tale of woe.

HD

Unfortunately many men have huge egos and self dillusion is prominent. So many think they are entitled to far better they actually are. I was talking to a friend of my father's the other day who is 47 and has never been married. He was talking about how women his age are unattractive,let themselves go,and really have too much baggage.  Guess what? ......He was unattractive,40 or so pounds overweight and has tons of emotional family baggage. I had to suppress my laughter, but I realized he is pretty normal.  The denial mode is one that many people are into because trying to change ones self takes too much work.

All the power and the outcomes are totally dependent on the man. WE say yes or no. If we say yes to good ones that's what we get. If we say yes to the wrong ones that's what we get. This really is one instance in life where we have a multitude of willing choices. Good choices and bad choices. Make good choices and have good results. Make bad choices, have bad results. Simple as that.

Don't know how to make good choices...learn how or suffer the consequences. To lazy or deep in denial to learn..suffer the consequences.

HD

So it's not that far fetched of a concern. REALLY.

HD

H20, your balls hang down so low you need to tuck them in your boots.

Mike

www.sparhard.com/colombia.htm

"..your balls hang down so low you need to tuck them in your boots."

Now THAT is belly-LOL funny.

My mother is a creole woman from back country Louisiana, so I have heard some hilarious sayings over the years.

Although at times I wonder if they're funny because of the visuals they conjure, or because I've translated them wrong.

Tai

In my apartment building, the penthouse on the top floor used to be owned by some rich mafia guy.  A few years back, at least as legend has it, the wife of this guy got mad at the portero (doorman) and shot him right in the lobby as in dead.

Be careful who you piss off when you're in Colombia.