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When I was in Mexico, I would read this forum from time to time and was dismayed at the apparent lack of knowledge on this forum about the Latina's closest to you here in the USA, Mexicana's. Please, no stories about border towns or Mexicana's here in the USA. The overwhelming majority of Chicana's here are from very poor areas of the country, with little or no education and are most likely Indian. I don't begrudege them at all for wanting to come here, but they have created a culture here that is neither Mexican or American.
The middle and upper class that IS in Mexico has no need or desire to come to the USA, other than to study English at the University level. They also know that almost all American's classify all Mexicans as looking like the Chicano's or Cholo's that live here in the USA.
What men have no idea of is the high quality of Mexicana that is just south of the border. In GDL, they are mostly white or morena clara, very tall, beautiful with the Tapatia (GDL girl) trademark big, pretty eyes. Even better are the blondes from the small towns in Jalisco, Japanese Mexicana's, Sonoran girls of Syrian descent, the unbelievably rich Chilanga's of D.F., German chica's in Chihuahua, the girls of Italian or Lebanese descent in Puebla, and the cream of the crop, the Sinaloense's. The girls from Sinaloa have to be the best looking girls in the world. I know this is a Colombia obsessed forum, but my vote for the best goes to the tall pretty Sinaloense's. And so close to the USA!
Please, one must also drop whatever sterotypes they have about Mexican cities or culture too. These women are tops in feminity, meaning they will spend a lot of time in the salon and gym. Most are steeped in Catholicism, meaning that they have solid values. The people there in the mid to upper classes all have cell phones, Expeditions and Volvos, wear Tommy Hilfiger, take vacations to the beach and stay at the Westin also and have the best and most glamourous parties ever. Turn on one of the Telenovelas on Univision where the people are 20 something (Amigos & Rivales?) and that is a pretty accurate representation of the new Mexico.
My fiancee always tells people that there are many differant types of Mexican's, as there are many types of Americans. The USA isn't the only place where people have emigrated.
Case in point; this afternoon, I took my fiancee (tall, light brown hair and blue eyes) and her little 12 year old niece (blonde with blue eyes, looks like a Swede) to a real Mexican restaurant for Torta's, because they were kind of homesick for real Mexican food. The waitress, who was from Guerrero state in Mexico, spoke to the girls in broken English, and was answered in Spanish. Even she thought the girls were Gringas, although they dress like Mexicana's.
When I was at the university, I had a chance to compare large numbers of Gringas to Mexicana's, right next to each other. No contest, in fact we had to pity the poor Gringa's who showed up for school looking like they just crawled out of bed. Most were completely void of the gregarious personalities I have found in Latina's.
One thing I will tell you is that the college age boys, some of whom looked like they stepped out of an Abercrombie & Fitch ad, complained about dating back home in the USA with Gringa's to me. By the end of the semester, the majority had Latina girlfriends they had to grudgingly leave behind, saying they would never date another Gringa again. Randy G...

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

Hey Randy! I remember when you were first planning your Mexico trip and am happy to hear it worked out well for you, I knew it would! and thanks for the great informative post!         P.S Im surprised that you even returned to the USA to live since you discovered one of our best kept secrets!!
              cuidate amigo!  ...El SANCHO

... in response to Re: Mexicana's should not be overlooked...., posted by SANCHO on Jul 13, 2001

/

... in response to Sancho o lechero?  n/t, posted by KADAMS on Jul 13, 2001

LOL

... in response to Re: Sancho o lechero?   Si..!, posted by Houndog on Jul 14, 2001

Dont worry dog, I saw the photo you posted, your safe! LOL!

... in response to Re: Re: Sancho o lechero?   lol, posted by SANCHO on Jul 14, 2001

..yea..get some sack and post your pics...what are you afraid of ??? your odds ?? reality ?? the truth ?? everyone ??...lol...moo..

HD

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Sancho o lechero?   lol, posted by Houndog on Jul 14, 2001

Like I said, your safe with me "buddy", but that Nicaraguan guy from down your street who's been talking in spanish with your lady might be a threat, better lock her back up and buy her some more arts and crafts to keep her out of society and from making friends?????? uh oh! .....beloved SANCHO  LOL!!!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Sancho o lechero?   lol, posted by SANCHO on Jul 16, 2001

Keep Dreamin idiot....I followed my own advice and found one with a dream...and I'm it...instead of a plan...so while you're out spreading herpes, my wife and I will be at the movies, or the park, or shopping, or any other number of things couples do. And when I'm at work she has all the things of her dreams to keep her happy and busy....painting, designing, decorating, gardening....you know...NORMAL STUFF...and remember...while you're sneakin in the back door somewhere somebodies sneakin in your back door...so don't forget to keep lookin over your shoulder to make sure they're not gainin on you...LOL

HD

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sancho o lechero?   ..., posted by Houndog on Jul 16, 2001

hee hee hee, this is your only life right here, I know it! everybody here knows it! and you know it as your compulsive posting here documents the fact, and thats what irks you so! it appears that your anti social behaviour, cries for attention, alcoholism problem, and internet addiction is probably taking its toll on you! and the clock is running! tik tok tik tok tik tok........LOL     beloved primo SANCHO

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

Randy,

That was a fascinating discourse on Mexican culture that I appreciate greatly.  Thank you.

Hamlet

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

Randy,
You may be right,but it looks like lower odds than Colombia.
(Colombia is a sure thing if you are at all realistic about what you expect).Alot of guys have a limited amount of time.
My other fear is a guy might give get discouraged and give up before really finding the happy hunting ground.
Also,the agency route is non threatening for a guy that may be to shy to try and approach strange women.A guy can breeze in to town and meet alot of women quickly.If you have months to live there,know people  or take classes I immagine you could do alright in mexico.I must also admit I am influenced  by women I have know of mexican decent here.Not the same as Colombiana's at all.
But hey,if it looks good to you,go for it.Lets hear some success stories.

Pete

... in response to Re: Mexicana's should not be overlooked...., posted by Pete E on Jul 12, 2001

Randy,
I did sort of a knee jerk reaction to your post then read more carefully,plus your posts down below.You do a good job of describing the Mexico you discovered.I just get concerned when guys might go off on something low probability and then give up.
One other Question.The Ladies of south america,especially Colombia,are known for nice bubble butts,which seems rare amoung the ladies of northern Mexico.They seem to be kind of broad shouldered and narrow hipped.Does that change as you go south in Mexico?

Pete

... in response to Re: Mexicana's should not be overlooked...., posted by Pete E on Jul 12, 2001

nt

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

You asked for no border town stories, but I feel like I have to. The Tijuana that sailors on leave have been whispering about since WWII, has changed tremendously. There's a burgeoning middle class there with the huge explosion of American and Japanese factories over the past couple decades bringing engineers, bookkeepers, secretaries, etc, along with educated, skilled labor up from central Mexico to fill the needs of the maquiladoras. Last week I took three thirty-something single guys who grew up in San Diego, down there on business and we stayed late for a little night life. They'd been traveling down there all their lives to the tourist traps and were shocked at the resturaunts and night spots where the Mexicans go. We're talking valets, women dressed to the nines, live bands, etc, etc. Many of the women speak English fluently, and most can make themselves understood well. All three of teh gringos came home shaking their heads in disbelief at how different it was from their previous experiences in the tourist part of town. All three are making plans to return with some of my single Mexican friends and do some serious wife hunting.
-- Jeff S.

... in response to Re: Mexicana's should not be overlooked...., posted by Jeff S on Jul 12, 2001

I am currently corresponding with a girl in Tijuana.  She is 30 years old and is very nice.  Its been a long time since I've been to TJ.  But I will go soon to meet this girl and see what happens.  Im also interested in checking out TJ and places to meet women.  Ive heard from other sources that there are alot of single women there.  One of the reasons I belive that are alot of single women there in TJ is because of the maquiladoras.   What Ive been wanting to know is how to meet those women.

... in response to Re: Re: Mexicana's should not be overloo..., posted by cedro on Jul 13, 2001

Dancing is the best way I know. I never met a Mexicana who didn't love to dance. There are nightclubs in Tijuana where the Mexicans go - not in the tourist areas - too many gringo teenagers seeing how many shots of Cuervo gold before they hurl. E-mail me for specifics

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Mexicana's should not be ove..., posted by Jeff S on Jul 13, 2001

email sent

... in response to Re: Mexicana's should not be overlooked...., posted by Jeff S on Jul 12, 2001

Jeff,

Could you please tell me where exactly in Tijuana your friends found the gold mine of beautiful, English speaking latinas?  I am only a few hours from TJ and would love to make the trip!! If you could also share on what particular night/day of the week you went...it would greatly be appreciated!!

Thanks!!

... in response to Re: Re: Mexicana's should not be overloo..., posted by Chris F on Jul 12, 2001

.

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

this sojourn looking for a latina, I got the TLC magazine which has a number of women from Mexico.  I started writing and I also planned on going on a few tours to SA.  One of the first ladies to respond lived in Mexico City and she sent me her phone number.  This girl was so sweet and had great qualities.  She could speak English and was intelligent, hard working and independent.  She was close to her family and as sweet as can be.  But I continued on to Colombia and Venezuela and lost touch with her as I met other latinas.  I sometimes wonder and hope she was able to meet someone nice.

One of my Spanish teachers has been up here for a few years and she is from Guadalajara.  What a babe.  Everybody loves her.  She is newly married and I am close to getting there but if not, there is attraction between us.  She once told me that if she was not married, she would be fixed on me.  She used the verb fijar.  So we are just friends but I think the gringo who married her is pretty lucky.  They both met on vacation down in Mexico at a resort.

The woman who cuts my hair is Hispanic and knows that I am engaged to a Caleña.  Her nephew who is around 22 years old went with his friend to visit the friend's family in Mexico City and fell in love with the guy's sister.  He wants to marry her!  He had a girlfriend here who apparently was the classic AM, playing games on him, not appreciating all that he did for her.  So when he came back, he told her he had found someone else and this gringa is like shocked that he could be dumping her.  The family in Mexico is making them take it slow and they want this guy's parents to fly down to meet them so they can conocerlos.  His parents are making plans to do this.  

So, one road less traveled is the one to Mexico.

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001


 Good Post!!  I brought up the beauty of Mexican women in a post a few weeks ago and nobody believed me.

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

Mexicanas, especially the higher class ones are beautiful, feminine, and definately a real catch for a gringo. I would like to make a couple of comments about your statement, "The middle and upper class that IS in Mexico has no need or desire to come to the USA." Consider this a GOOD thing. My wife is from a fairly wealthy family. She had no NEED nor much of a desire to live in the US. In fact, it was step down in lifestyle when she came here. There's a lot of talk about going to Colombia because the women are serious about getting out of there and a guy can do "better" there. This usually means he can come away with a younger, prettier woman. While she may look good draped on your arm when walking down the street, it doesn't necessarily translate to a better wife. Does our younger, prettier woman have more character? Are her goals more in-line with yours? Does she move with style and grace in varying business and personal social situations? Does she fit-in with your friends, family, and co-workers well? Not to sound crude, but it sounds as if more than a few MOB seekers aren't thinking of life outside their own bedrooms, and after you've been married a while, that's almost ALL of real life. The point here is that while you may do better in terms of youth and looks going to a more desperate country, but you may do better in terms of wife material to look for a higher class woman who'se primary goal isn't necessarily to bail from her country. No disrespect intended here of Columbianas in general. I know many of you have found wonderful wives and girlfriends there - and you found them by being extremely selective and wading through many who just wanted out.
-- Jeff S.

... in response to I'm with you there.., posted by Jeff S on Jul 12, 2001

Nice to hear someone speak of character and compatibility instead of legs and breasts.  If more guys thought like that there would be fewer failed marriages and less damage to both the men and women involved.

If I were single, knowing what I know now, I'd be concentrating on Mexico rather than Colombia.  My wife's great and is a caleña, but having traveled in both countries extensively and met many people, Mexico would be my first choice.  I think it's a more conservative culture with greater tradition than the South American countries I've been in.  You can find a good woman anywhere (including the US!) but I think if conservative values are a high priority, Mexico would be the better place to go.  It's more difficult to find a Mexican woman.  Agencies don't get much interest from the women there and they don't have the political situation motivating them to leave that exists in Colombia, but I think you would encounter more conservative women there, in general, than you would in Colombia and Venezuela.

... in response to A breath of fresh air, posted by Patrick on Jul 12, 2001

Patrick,

Can you expound on the meaning of "conservative values" in your post?

Hamlet

... in response to A breath of fresh air, posted by Patrick on Jul 12, 2001

Patrick,

You have made several "implications" regarding Mexico.

I am curious as to what it is that you "know now" that would make you concentrate on Mexico versus Colombia?

Now it appears that you place a premium on "conservative" culture and values, which is fine, because to each his/her own...

However, how is it that you back up your statement that Mexico has a "greater tradition"?

Tai

... in response to A breath of fresh air, posted by Patrick on Jul 12, 2001

Maybe I'm missing something ? However I don't understand in present contexts...how 'consevative' equals 'better. And not only does this term seem vague to me...it appears as if more than one meaning is floating around. Could someone put some meaning to this word so that I and perhaps others could see how it might define 'better'.

Thanks, HD

... in response to Re: A breath of fresh air, posted by Houndog on Jul 13, 2001

It's a matter of personal preference for me.  I would define conservative in this case as more likely to be a virgin before marriage, and more likely to adhere to the value system of previous generations.  I think there's more social pressure for ladies to be conservative in Mexico, which is, again, a matter of opinion.  More conservative may not be what you or anybody else wants, it's just my personal preference.  And I think Colombianas are definitely way more conservative in general than American women.  It's just that from my own personal experiences, I think that Mexico's women are more conservative than Colombia's and that happens to be my personal preference.

I also think that American culture is infecting all the Latin American nations and that the younger the woman, the less likely she is to have the "old" values in as strong a dose as the more mature ladies.

... in response to Re: A breath of fresh air, posted by Houndog on Jul 13, 2001

However I don't understand in present contexts...how 'consevative' equals 'better.

I think what is meant by "conservative values" is that your wife won't be wanting to go to bars at night and dance with all the handsome men there.  I had a friend who, while in the Navy, married a girl from Thailand.  While there they had two beautiful sons.  When he brought her over here, to live in Atlanta, she started going out with some other girls from Thailand, dancing and leaving him alone at night with the kids.  Needless to say, that marriage ended in divorce.  Although we like to think that we are not jealous and have good strong egos, no man wants to share his wife with other men.  If you marry a young pretty wife and you are in your 40's or 50's it is only natural that you want a woman who has "conservative values" and will not want to ditch you the first chance she gets and go for a younger man. - Art

... in response to Re: Re: A breath of fresh air, posted by ariechert on Jul 13, 2001

"If you marry a young pretty wife and you are in your 40's or 50's it is only natural that you want a woman who has conservative values"

Marry someone close to your own age and you can actually enjoy having a companion with a similar level of life experience and maturity.  Makes for good conversation and partnership.  I don't know about the rest of the guys, but I find that I don't relate well to people 20 years younger than myself other than on a superficial level.

They don't "mature faster" there, nor do the women outnumber the men X-to-1.  That's only agency hype to sell you a fantasy.  One thing that is true is that marriages between younger women and older men are more common in Latin America.  However, being more common does not mean that it's the norm or that "most" of the women prefer this.  And unless you're a pretty unusual guy, you won't be living in Latin America after marriage anyway, you'll be living here in the US where there will be a considerable stigma attached to your marriage.  You may be able to say "screw 'em, I don't care what they think," but nobody lives in a vacuum and without a social life, even if you aren't unhappy, your wife probably will be.

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

Randy, to attract these kinds of girls, you have to be a high caliber guy yourself. Many are not as confident as they appear. Preferring to find only economically deppressed areas for their search.Because the women there are less picky.

 It makes it easier for the average guy. Women as those you have described are more picky,harder to impress.Most will not date unattractive,fat,older,poorer gentlemen(sorry about that,but it's true). They have more American taste when it comes to looks,and are quite happy at home.

 Though I for one believe if it comes too easy,it may not be such a prize. I would prefer to work hard to be that caliber of man who can attract an educated woman who is not desperate  to leave a bad situation.                      
   I am interested in Asian because of their conservative nature,and their respect for education. But you have talked me into taking a trip to Mexico when I am ready.        

  By the way,though I am interested in Asians I also thinks latinas are incredible and after reading Randy's  post have not ruled that out. For those who wonder why I come to this board, the activity here is great! Good post!

... in response to Re: Mexicana's should not be overlooked...., posted by rick13 on Jul 12, 2001

""It makes it easier for the average guy. Women as those you have described are more picky,harder to impress.Most will not date unattractive,fat,older,poorer gentlemen(sorry about that,but it's true). They have more American taste when it comes to looks,and are quite happy at home. ""

Speak for yourself and your friends...many guys don't want an AW with an accent(although when I read about some relationships here it proves me wrong)...and the old, fat,  bald, anti-social, inept, stereotype is miniscule compared to the old days(except for the PI hunters).

And if you just read many recent posts concerning AW..plenty of guys are'nt really interested in High Maitenence Materialistic Women. But rather faithfulness, honesty, sincerity, etc. Personally I have no intention of living a real life TV Novela . In fact to go south for that seems like going around the block to cross the street to me.  

****
Though I for one believe if it comes too easy,it may not be such a prize. I would prefer to work hard to be that caliber of man who can attract an educated woman who is not desperate to leave a bad situation. ***

Believe me..many of the women are not desperate..quite the oppisite in fact..Have you been there and met any ?? I certianly don't think so spouting that line. But I have...looking for a good man and fullfillment of the dream of a happy loving life with a good man is the real story. And if you are implying being of caliber by having done an extensive personal inventory, defining strenghts and working on weakness's along with accumulating plenty of 'stuff' I stand tall in this world...yet I have or had no intentions of "selling my deal" to attract the type that are "shopping to buy the deal". Many guys that I know have a much different level of spirtuality than you might think...and seek genuine love...the type of emotions and spirtuality and maturity that trancends "stuff".

BTW...you want to buy a seldom used Rolex Daytona ??? Helps with the Armani croud from TV Novelas.

HD

HD

... in response to Re: "Armani " not just for gri..., posted by Houndog on Jul 12, 2001

My last post apparently did not go through.  But Houndog what gives you the impression I was talking about you or anyone you know?

 I have yet to hear you talk about the 'desperation factor or getting the youngest and prettiest girl you can. In fact you seem one of the few who was truly out there in search of love. I am talking about the guys who are out there wondering how desperate the women are?where to get the prettiest women,and how young is feasably attainable. These questions asked before they even get there or meet these women. As though the women are merchandise.Most of these guys did not do a check-up from the neck up,or down for that matter,they are just looking for an easy way to get a woman.  Most not thinking of charecter or personality but outer looks.But th best deal they can get for their bucks.

 I am not making this up, read the boards and you will see what I mean.

 As for traveling I have. Sine the age of 15 I have gone to CR,Venezuela,Brazil,PR. Also I have many latina and latina friends. I plan next on Mexico,and the Philippines or Vietnam.

... in response to Re: "Armani " not just for gri..., posted by Houndog on Jul 12, 2001

Guys:  Bringing up Armani and trying to twist my words around to make it sound like I am after a high maintenance, elitist woman is rather weak. After thinking about this and remembering what my fiancee said about fashion in Mexico, I offer you this: my fiancee said that in Mexico you can buy clothes relly cheap, and there are alot of knockoff designer stuff floating around the puestos (small family owned shops), which explains why even our maid wore Tommy Hilfiger and the like. I remember dating a girl for a couple weeks who was from Sector Libertad, the poorer part of town. I picked her up at her campus one day at the Univ. of GDL, a free institution, meaning students with limited means go there. She was dressed in Zara (a higher end store in Mexico)clothes she purchased at the sale rack with a Citizen watch (might have been a knock off) and looked like a million bucks. In her apartment she shared with her Grandma was a new digital TV, DVD player and the like.
I am trying to relate the new Mexico to you, and I don't think the type of clothes girls wear have anything to do with this. Don't you want your girls to look great without spending a fortune, or do you want them to dress like the old Senoras, like my girlfriend had to do when she was a child. I personally love seeing the women dressed to the nines in Mexico! RG

... in response to Armani? Pretty weak argument..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

Randy, No your post was right on the money.  I spend a great deal of time in Mexico and I live in Texas.  The Mexican encountered here is much different than the "Mexican" encountered down in Mexico.  I have some very dear friends in Mexico.  

Don't sweat the guy twisting your words around.  He does that to anyone who does not share his views.  Just ignore him as most people here do.

... in response to Re: Armani? Pretty weak argument..., posted by TexRob on Jul 12, 2001

"The Mexican encountered here is much different than the "Mexican" encountered down in Mexico. "

If I fell in love with a "chola" or Indian looking woman, it wouldn't make any difference to me how she happened to look.  All that would matter to me would be that she loves me and I love her and that we are happy together.  There are beautiful women of every race and nationality.  In fact I think it would be fun to be married to an Indian woman who knew a lot of the the lore and knew how to make corn tortillas.  As far as what kind of clothes she wears; who cares? I have seen some girls (only 2, but hey? who's counting?) (while in high school) who weren't all that hot dressers and didn't look all that hot with their clothes on but they looked incredible naked. And who knows? Maybe the little "chola" would be incredible in bed!  If they don't nag me and and are sweet, compassionate, and loving then I am happy. - Art

... in response to Re: Re: Armani? Pretty weak argument..., posted by ariechert on Jul 13, 2001

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... in response to Re: Armani? Pretty weak argument..., posted by TexRob on Jul 12, 2001

Well that's actually humorous....I did'nt even reply to randy's post at all..let alone twist the words...the words were twisted when they were written. The guy was beaten down on LWL so bad I had to save him from being verbally bludgened to death for much the same types of elitist thinking. Juan was very kind to him .

HD

... in response to Re: Re: Armani? Pretty Humorous..., posted by Houndog on Jul 12, 2001

for saving my bloody ass from being verbally bludgeoned to death for "elitist thinking" on the LWL. hmmm....

... in response to hmmm....I guess a belated word of thanks..., posted by Randy G on Jul 13, 2001

Yea... don't mention it...I have a weakness for helping the defenseless .

Elitist??...let me think..is there a better word to descibe what I'm reading..?? Hmmmm....yea there are several , but I'll pass...

Perhaps you would like to give your definition of 'conservative' so we can compare it to a few others, some clarifications would be nice in the midst of so many vaguries.

Oh BTW...which mall is it guys can find a wife in ??? or now that you've highlighted the beauty of mall shopping how do you recommend guys put any of your information to use ??

HD

... in response to Armani? Pretty weak argument..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

hey man,

i'm with you. keep making informative posts about your own personal experiences, how the ladies look, how they act, interact with gringos, and most importantly, where they all live!!!

any expansion of the range of countries discussed here is a big plus, rather than limiting it to just one or two.

thanks for the informative post!

also, do you think the desirable ladies are willing to leave mexico, and if so, what are the areas of the u.s. that interest them the most? (like southern california, new mexico, arizona, etc.)

can you describe jalisco? some people have been discussing retirement to colombia, but i don't know about that? maybe, but it seems like it would be difficult to stay forever outside of the safest and most stable areas. (i have not been to colombia yet). mexico seems like a safer bet!

thanks, bret

... in response to more info = good!, posted by bret on Jul 12, 2001

.. is that there's plenty of Spanish Language Radio, TV, newspapers, Mexican food (groceries, panderias, resturaunts, etc, etc.) In one city near me, Santa Ana, with several hundred thousand residents, 70% of the population speak Spanish at home. Even the Viet Namese at the Santa Ana swap meet speak better Spanish than English. While this is nice and convenient for native Spanish speakers, it has a downside. That is, you don't have to learn English. You can do your shopping, doctor, dining out, enroll our kids in school, take a drivers, test, etc, etc, without English. In fact I have people working for me who have been in the US for over 15 years and don't speak a word of English - and not just a few, either. It's common. I'm guessing other places, particularly along the Mexican border like Southern Texas has a similar situation, but I don't know if the state governments aren't quite so accomodating as California offering state income tax forms, drivers tests, unemployment insurance claim forms, etc. in Spanish.
-- Jeff S.

... in response to One thing about Southern Cal and native ..., posted by Jeff S on Jul 13, 2001

"While this is nice and convenient for native Spanish speakers, it has a downside."

Considering we stole the land from Mexico in the first place I think the least we can do is let people speak any language they want to.  The English language is an evolving language anyway.  Who knows, in 500 years everyone in the U.S. may be speaking "Spanglish". - Art

... in response to Re: One thing about Southern Cal and nat..., posted by ariechert on Jul 13, 2001

In MY AMERICA...we already do speak SPANGLISH....LOL..

HD

... in response to Re: One thing about Southern Cal and nat..., posted by ariechert on Jul 13, 2001

"the least we can do"?  Sure we stole California from Mexico.  Texas, too.  Are you saying that's bad?  If California or Texas were still part of Mexico they would be in the same economic boat as the rest of that country and the Mexicans wouldn't want to live there either.  Our ancestors should be thanked for making something good out of them.  Besides, 90% of the countries on this planet took their land by force.  My $.02.

Steve

... in response to We stole it fair and square, posted by DallasSteve on Jul 13, 2001

Just had to chime in on the Texas issue....BTW, the US stole Texas about as much as the Colonists stole the colonies from England.  Remember the Texas War of Independence? Ya know...Goliad, the Alamo, San Jacinto?  That was a war between the Republic of Texas and the Mexican Republic, with no help from the US Government. The only person we stole this land from was the Indians.

Later,
Mike

... in response to What?, posted by JunFan68 on Jul 13, 2001

I was in a hurry when I wrote that, but that's no excuse.  A native Texan shouldn't make that kind of mistake.  

I still believe the rest of my point applies to Texas as well.  If this was still a part of Mexico, the Mexicans would want to leave it behind also to live in the USA.  It's not the land or the people, it's our principles, values, system of government, etc. that make this a great economy and a great country.

Steve

... in response to Re: One thing about Southern Cal and nat..., posted by ariechert on Jul 13, 2001

My point was that speaking no English while living in the USA is a handicap. Try getting a decent job without it.
-- Jeff S

... in response to Re: Re: One thing about Southern Cal and..., posted by Jeff S on Jul 13, 2001

And one of the very reasons I come out Strongly for the women learning English..and not using broken spanish spoken by most gringo's as a crutch...which in truth is a hinderence in the big picture and long haul...leaving the women somewhat trapped in a small fraction of the scope of societal interaction.

HD

... in response to more info = good!, posted by bret on Jul 12, 2001

^^any expansion of the range of countries discussed here is a big plus, rather than limiting it to just one or two.^^^

Geee...you just dissed Casta Rico below......make up your mind...

HD

... in response to Re: more info = good!, posted by Houndog on Jul 12, 2001

no man,

i didn't diss costa rica. i just offered a personal opinion based on my own experiences.

i recall saying some good things and then balancing that with a comment about how i do not feel like it would be a good country to find a wife if one is on a limited schedule of any kind.

commenting on the good and bad about various countries IS an expansion of the range of countries discussed, as no country could ever be all good or all bad. everywhere is a little bit of both.

... in response to more info = good!, posted by bret on Jul 12, 2001

I spent a week in Guadalahara, Jalisco earlier this year and for the first time was there and living like a Mexican staying with a Mexican family (as opposed to traveling there as a tourista or business person.) It's quite inexpensive by US standards but higher than most central Mexico cities except perhaps Mexico City and Queretero. There's fabulous food, nearby Lake Chapala for outdoor recreation and all the benefits of a modern city with the associated night life, great resturaunts, cultural events, etc. etc. It's a couple hour drive to the beach (in Nayarit) and probably only three hours to Puerto Vallarta (also in Jalisco.) As for good looking, well dressed and made up, very feminine but conservative women, they're everywhere. I'm a middle aged, graying gringo with a few pounds too many around the middle, and I have no trouble finding dance partners. (I'm married, though so that was it.) I NEVER once felt even slightly unsafe and was ALWAYS treated exceptionally well by everyone. People went out of their way to be polite and friendly.
-- Jeff S.

... in response to Re: more info = good!, posted by Jeff S on Jul 12, 2001

n/t

... in response to Re: "Armani " not just for gri..., posted by Houndog on Jul 12, 2001

Houndog, I was not talking about you, so why are you so defensive? I for one think you were more realistic than most in your choice of a wife and had much more sincere intentions. But if you read the boards you will see many men asking about age,looks,the economy,the "despration factor". What are their intentions.Am I making this up??

Many want to go just because the women they get there,are prettier and younger than anything they can get here or in any other latin country due to economy. Is that the only criteria for a wife? I hope not. There are really great omen there who I doubt would have much respect for men who see them as a trophy.

             It is equivelent to Aw saying the will travel to another country for a man because she can get a younger and richer than a man they can get in the U.S. That is too shallow. What happened to charecter,chemistry,compatibility? It is thrown out the window for a beautifu face and sexy body.
 

And though I have not travelled to Columbia, I have been traveling to Latin countries since the age of 15(family vacation to costa Rica) Venezuela, Brazil, Puerto Rico. The women there have much more to offer than looks. If the some of the guys here want to be taken seriously in their search( there are some good,solid men here also),stop behaving like 6th graders who can only see the outer parts of a woman.

... in response to Re: Re: "Armani " not just for..., posted by rick13 on Jul 12, 2001

"But if you read the boards you will see many men asking about age,looks,the economy,the "despration factor". What are their intentions."

Another reason many men may go to a Latin Country is that they love big brown eyes, black or dark brown hair, and a woman with a "Spanish" accent.  I absolutely love a woman with a latina accent.  Not to mention I love latin music, and Mexican and Cuban food.  I like to dance the rhumba, cha-cha, merengue (sp?), and mambo.  Also latin people seem to have such outgoing vivacious personalities, which I find fun and refreshing, compared to proper "British" or "German" people that I was raised around. - Art

... in response to Re: Re: Re: "Armani " not just..., posted by ariechert on Jul 13, 2001

.. many Latinos and Latinas don't hide their emotions like we Northern European derived people. Most that I know are quick to laugh, cry, sing, get embarrassed, angry, or any other emotional response, more easily than gringos. You sure know where you stand all the time!
-- Jeff S.

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

Only rich Mexicans are real  Mexicans? Only the lifestyle that rich  Mexicans lead is indicative of true Mexican Culture? Lucky you, you got to hang out with and be around the Mexican elite, unfortunately, most Mexicans don't live like that,  it doesn't make them any  less Mexican.

Is the  lifestyle of someone from California the same as someone from Indiana, Arkansas or Utah? Is the lifestyle of someone from New York the same as for someone from Texas? And even within every state there are sub-cultures, in New York City we have the hip hop culture while in the very same city we have Wall Street-types that listen to rock or country, does that make them any less American?

I hope you realize that in most LA countries using the term  "Indio" or "India" when reffering to someone is as racist as someone using the N word in this country when reffering to a black person.

... in response to I don't understand your  logic, posted by JUAN on Jul 12, 2001

I suggest that you check out this link:

http://www.fresnobee.com/man/projects/season/index.html

The migrant workers described in that excellent story struggle, often very admirably, against a hard life.  However, the story makes it clear that many individuals among them have their faults.  One might say the same of the "Okies" who did that work before them and whose descendents--or at least the less ambitious of them--still live in this area.  Having empathy for the working class is one thing.  However, choosing to spend your life with a woman who neither has nor cares about an education in preference to one who has a university education is something else.  If that's what a person has to do to prove they're not elitist, then I'm elitist.

... in response to Elitism... a reality check, posted by FredFresno on Jul 12, 2001

^^^spend your life with a woman who ""neither has nor cares about an education"" in preference to one who has a university education is something else^^^

Care to explain how you could possibly know that poor people don't care about an education ??? Thanks .

BTW..you do realize I hope that an education doesn't neccesarily erase IGNORANCE.

HD

... in response to Re: Elitism... a reality check..oh reall..., posted by Houndog on Jul 13, 2001

Malandro

Reincarnated again!  Where are you getting all these email addresses from?

Steve

... in response to Bienvenidos Malandro otra vez!, posted by DallasSteve on Jul 13, 2001

.

... in response to I don't understand your  logic, posted by JUAN on Jul 12, 2001

Juan: Although I did know alot of wealthy girls at my university, I did not "hang out" with the elite. I lived with a middle class family, the Senora being divorced and one son living at home. I rented a casita in the backyard garden. She worked as a buyer for a small bridal shop in el Centro and drove an 8 year old Honda Civic. They did have a maid, and she was very proud of her Indian heritage, as she was bilingual, which the Senora pointed out with pride, as she had helped the maid learn Spanish by sending her to night school. The maid also went to San Blas for vacation twice a year.
My fiancee is upper middle class, as her aged father owns a Hotel in a small town in Jalisco. His family is rather extended, so they don't really live that "elitist lifestyle". My fiancee also has stayed in the "elitist" Westin Regina in Puerto Vallarta, buying package deals with airfare from GDL that are very cheap for some reason, and sharing the room with four of her sisters. Is this elitist?
I went to a high school graduation party of a niece and some fifteen of her beautiful, fun loving friends in a small town in Jalisco. This was the most glamourous party I have ever been too. 2000 invitations, great food, free tequila, band playing the latest hits (USA & Mexican) with a great Mariachi band to wind things down with later. Every boy and man had the latest, smartest suits on and every woman seemed to look like she stepped out of a fashion mag. Elitist? Not...the party was payed for by the fifteen girls that were graduating (all best friends) together by fundraisers (car washes, etc.) over the course of the senior year. My fiancees nieces dad (brother in law) works as an Athletic club manager and they live in a rented two bedroom apartment. Their older daughter attends ITESO (antoher elitist tool of the rich) in GDL, but only because of a scholarship because she is brilliant. Elitist, I think not. Lots of hard work and planning, I think so. Your post had political implications, and I never brought any up. I know there is alot of abject poverty in Mexico, but I wasn't there rubbing elbows with the elitists. I was in the solid, burgeoning middle class, like it or not...

... in response to I don't understand your  logic, posted by JUAN on Jul 12, 2001

I remember one time several years ago in Miraflores, Peru walking down the street when I noticed a young Peruvian man wearing a t-shirt that read "FXXK YOU!" in really really large letters! It was on the front and back of his t-shirt. LOL.  All I could do was laugh after I was shocked!  Ha..Ha..It was rather bizarre because amidst all the Peruvian people in the street... and Miraflores is famous for socializing there..no one knew what it meant and no one noticed except me. I remember another event in Mexico City many years ago while visiting a pen pal in her home...her family approched me to say that their mother wanted my red jacket as a gift.  Well for whatever reason this struck me as odd and I refused to relinquish my jacket.  They cajoled me and cajoled me but I refused to budge.  This was my jacket and if I wanted to give it as a gift to someone I would do it but on my own accord.  Well of course this didn't sit well with their mother.  And it might have beem the final straw that ended things between us. But I was stubborn and she was stubborn.  Two stubborn mules!  LOL. In retrospect I see it as a clash of cultures.  It was not unusual for them but for me and my poor Irish background it would never happen.  LOL.  But live and learn.  I still have the red jacket because I'm a rat-packer but if I saw her again I'd give it to her!  So Juan all of us foreigners make mistakes....on both sides of the border.

... in response to I don't understand your  logic, posted by JUAN on Jul 12, 2001

Juan: You mis-understood my attempt to describe what I percieve as the new mainstream middle and upper class Mexican culture. This was said in the attempt to dispel the old stereotypes that seem to linger in the American conscience about Mexico (Burros, whitewashed pueblitos, tequila drinking lazy mexican next to a cactus, etc.). I didn't say anything about wanting a high maintenance woman. I said these women look like a million bucks and most still maintain thier core values. My fiancee looks like a million bucks and is frugal, preferring to buy her high fashion in the sale racks or at Ross Dress for Less. I used the Telenovela referance to note what the mainstream Mexican culture is like now. The middle class is growing, and I used that reference for you to see also that alot of Mexicans don't look like the Chicano's here. I also used the word Indian as a descriptive term, sorry if I wasn't politically correct, but most Mexican's don't appear to be that bothered by the word, as it is used quite often in a descriptive sense.  Randy G

... in response to Mexicana's should not be overlooked..., posted by Randy G on Jul 12, 2001

I agree, but.......

1.  There is not nearly the agency infrastructure in Mexico as there is in Colombia.

2.  Colombianas are motivated by the civil war and poor economic conditions to leave their country.  The political and economic situation in Mexico is not nearly as bad as it is in Colombia.  Hence, less motivation for the Mexicana to leave.

3.  More Americans visit Mexico than those who visit Colombia.  The Mexican ladies, generally speaking, have a better opportunity to meet Gringos than Colombian ladies, and therefore, more Gringos for the Mexican lady to choose from.  Thus, the advantage for Gringos to visit Colombia over Mexico, because of the Gringo/Latina ratio.

4.  There is much more of a history between the U.S. and Mexico than there is of the U.S. and Colombia.  This legacy has created a certain level of animosity among Mexicans, generally speaking, towards the U.S. because of wars, immigration policy, economic exploitation, etc.

5.  There has been a longer history of American men going down to Mexico to find love, sex, etc., than there has been of American men going to Colombia.  This has led to a higher level of caution and suspicion among Mexicans who encounter Gringos in their country "looking for a bride".

chao