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The issue of whether or not to say anything about this lady has lingered for quite some time now. It was quieted temporarily by her engagement(what I thought was indications of change), then re-intensified by her actions to an unsuspecting guy who truly felt that he had found someone special only to have the rug pulled out from under him literally at the last second.

I know that Hoda, HD, D.T., and a few others here are also familiar with the details of the situation, and as such know that I am not making this up. I have nothing to gain by submitting this information. I am not a vindictive person, nor am I a "jilted" or "scorned" lover. I was fortunate in that I smelled the smoke early, and learned a long time ago not to stick around waiting for the fire.

I walked(ran) away from my experience with her taking the "it's not my concern anymore" attitude, and basically watched silently as she "worked" this other guy. Now he has moved on to continue the search for his someone special, taking the high road by basically wishing her well(not literally) and "leaving her be", so...the cycle is reset to play out again unless someone says or does something.

As I stated, I do feel strange about the public forum aspect, but my experience with agency owners that sell addresses as a significant aspect of their "revenue stream" is that they are reluctant to remove a "hot seller" from their site. -In and of itself, the fact that the majority of men that buy the addresses never actually travel down to visit the ladies, discourages address removal. As a "new" member of that agency she will likely have to "work" a few of THEIR clients specifically before it even becomes a concern to them. Additionally, the larger focus/concern of this particularly agency is Russian ladies.

During my recent trip to Barranquilla and Cartagena, I ran into her sister and a few others "in the know"....so the issue was once again brought to the forefront.

As I stated before, she is "slick" and will no doubt "work" several more guys before she is through. I don't believe this posting will have any significant impact on her activities and perhaps many guys will ignore what they have read as well...because as El Diablo indicated, to the general observer, this will be deemed "subjective"...just another opinion or perspective that will fade into the archives in a matter of days.

Perhaps, but at least next time I won't feel like an accomplice or an enabler. I'll be able to say "hey, I tried".

Tai

... in response to Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

I managed to dig the story up.  Since the lady was accused of being bad, I think it only fair that the story gets posted as well.n  Here it is-

Friends,

I want to thank all my friends here for their support and  information. For those that like or tolerate me and those that don't, I have allways felt that it was important to be honest. Seven months ago I met a wonderful young girl in Barranquilla and after two long visits and huge amounts of e-mail, meetings with her friends and most importantly her family I proposed and began a long K-1 process. Every detail of my life from religion, to education, to matters of romance was discussed with no apparent problems uncovered. I especially made a point of my Jewish background and told her that while I would not convert to another religion I would support her going to Church and that she could raise our children in her own Faith which she described as Christian but mild in involvement.Her parents and sister all knew I was Jewish as well.

The Chemistry was very good but she asked that we go slow to which I agreed. My love for her grew stronger by the day. I made intense plans to help her and her Family and began immediately to quietly arrange every detail for her arrival. My own Family was very supportive and reached out to her by phone e-mail and with presents. I constructed a support group here for by networking with other USA/Colombiana couples that I had previously  introduced and were now happily married.  One of those couples provided her home in Bogota for my Novia to stay in during the visa process in Bogota. (Which she enjoyed) I arranged my work schedule to be able to spend the first 60 days with her and take her to visit my Family. I studied my Spanish.

The big day was Monday and it was pouring rain at LAX. Nevertheless I was thrilled.  She arrived at nearly 12 midnight and was in my arms finally. Then the first thing happened. When we go to the car she could not find her passport. We went back immediately but it was nowhere to be found. This was important because it contained the Visa stamp for the 90 days. The INS staff were pleasant to me but of no help. After an uneasy few hours sleep I awoke to begin solving the problems. I got her to the Colombian counsulate and got a new passport for her in 1 hour. Then I found out that I had to file an I-102 replacement form.Which seemed to be no big deal but time consuming. I called my friend at my Congressman's office and got her ready to help expedite it.

Then I noticed something strange. She had only brought a very small suitcase and our plans were for her to stay forever. She came from a humble Family but had a reasonable amount of clothes so I asked her about it.  It was at that moment my world fell apart. She told me that 2 months prior she had converted to Evangelical Christianity in a very strict way. That she had thrown out all her clothes that could be considered sexy, along with her makeup. That she listened now only to Christian Music and would not dance except in the home. Drinking (never a big issue for me) was out completely and romance was to be srticlty limited until marriage. Further that she had come here to convert me and that absent that, marriage to me was impossible. My heart sank, I could not live a lie and I could not understand why there was no warning.  I arranged to get her friends and Family to counsel us as she trusted them. Her Family called from Barranquilla and was\ shocked as well, as only her brother knew of her new relgious intensity.  They tried to help me and told her to reconsider. I offered her any compromise she might need including time to get used to the new surroundings. She refused. We walked along the beach here and a stranger who took our picture remarked what a nice couple we made. My finacee is now on a plane back to Barranquilla with gifts from me and my best wishes for her life and happiness.

 I am completely devastated. I still love her. I will be in "lurk mode" indefinetly. To you all  "keep the faith" the Colombian wives of my friends tried really hard for me and maybe one day, I will try again and find one like them. See You,

... in response to The story, posted by Patrick on Jul 6, 2001

Very interesting.  She sounds like an opportunist with few scrupples...no conscience.  The loss of passport was strange..appears intentional to cause disadvantage to their union.  She's a game player...probably done it a few or many times before in her lifetime with other suckers.  I don't believe the family was totally surprised, they played the part well.  I'm sure they know all about their little girl's bag of tricks.  Is this girl young?  I would bet so.  She's going to meet her match some day when her cagey sly slithering doesn't catch the rabbit but instead she falls into her self-made pit.  With the next guy she'll probably claim amnesia or sudden blindness.  But Larry made mistakes too.  Live and learn and move on.  Thanks for the report!

... in response to The story, posted by Patrick on Jul 6, 2001

Larry,

If you'd rather this wasn't posted here, say so and I'll remove it.  However, I would remove all the other posts that were made by others regarding this lady since I don't think that accusations without content have any place here.

If you want it removed, please respond on the board.  I'm rarley checking email these days.

Patrick

... in response to LarryG, posted by Patrick on Jul 6, 2001

Not so much from dissuading people from pursuing this particular woman, as much as letting people know that there are women like this out there.  In particular, Tai's post below, "Re:  There is no story", is an eye-opener.  LarryG has given about as much thought as anyone to the potential for finding a wife in Latin America.  He's intelligent, and and also a genuinely good person.  And, believe it or not, not naive.  And still, he got taken for a ride. There are some significant lessons to be learned here. Or at least this thread has enlightened me.

Hope you take this as a suggestion and not criticism -- you're providing a great forum, and doing it for free.  Thanks!

... in response to Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

Enough already! Either expose her or move on! It's not that hard a decision to make. Either you're concerned about the guys on this board or you're concerned about her. Either way,DO SOMETHING. This is becoming rather old.

... in response to Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

Tai

I believe it's good to expose the questionable actions of the women looking for a foreign husband.  However, I, like Patrick, find your posts to be cryptic about what has happened.  After reading Houndog's post I searched the LWL archives.  I believe the original account of this woman's actions appears on March 7, 2001 under the caption "K1 Visa/72 hours to disaster".  Everyone can draw their own conclusions.

As for me, I have a high opinion of Larry.  The actions of this woman as recorded do not look good.  She may be a very bad candidate for a fiancee/wife.  Nevertheless, I can't say from what I have read that this woman was scamming.  If you, he, or others have more information to add to this, please present it here.

Steve

... in response to Re: Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by DallasSteve on Jul 6, 2001

Steve, Aren't you the guy that just recently wanted controversial posts ??

It is not possible to convince everyone of the validity of this story. Just as it's not possible to convince everyone of anything.

I didn't percieve the person to be a scammer necesarily....a very poor candidate for anyone less than "Her Perfect Man" yes....willing to just go along for the ride yes...willing to say you're not my type...no...

Consequently her type presents tremendous risk of lasting for the "Long Haul" with anyone other than someone, someday perhaps, that she truly loves, if thats possible .

IMO..by exposing a High Risk Element...guys are welcome to give it their best shot at trying to be the one for her. And in the same token, guys that don't want to play with fire can move along to less risky types of women.

HD

... in response to Re: Re: Truth, opinion, history, perspec..., posted by Houndog on Jul 6, 2001

Houndog

Aren't you the guy that just recently wanted facts?

On 6/17 you wrote "make your case with "facts" OR...shut up".  Good advice.  We agree on that.  I think we're in agreement on most of this issue if you compare our two messages.  Larry's a good guy and Luz looks like trouble.  My point is that the posts from Tai contain more innuendo than information.

Anyway, I'm glad to see some controversy back on the board.

Steve

... in response to In praise of Houndog, posted by DallasSteve on Jul 6, 2001

n/t

... in response to In praise of Houndog, posted by DallasSteve on Jul 6, 2001

And you doctored that BS about Portugal...but I refused you invitation to have an endless argument leading nowhere...but I see you want more...no thanks...

I don't feed carnations to pigs.

HD

... in response to Re: I wonder who you are ?? I'll bet I k..., posted by Houndog on Jul 6, 2001

You do understand ENGLISH...RIGHT...

HD

... in response to Re: GET LOST JERK..., posted by Houndog on Jul 6, 2001

You had already started with the deciet when I left you behind...now you follow with downright lies.

You have a serious problem...it is certian there is no cure for your types here and I certianly don't care if you ever get a life...really...now run along.

HD

... in response to Re: Re: Truth, opinion, history, perspec..., posted by Houndog on Jul 6, 2001

"It is not possible to convince everyone of the validity of this story...."

What story?  All I've seen are accusations that she's a bad person to be avoided.  If someone's going to bad mouth someone else here, they should post the details as to why they believe the person is bad.  What if she simply got involved with a guy and later changed her mind?  The readership of this board is far, far higher than the number of people actually posting.  What if someone who's involved with her reads these things and decides to dump her based on these accusations which are completely void of any detail?  This women is not only being smeared without a chance to respond, but she's being smeared with inuendo.  Where's the story to go along with the accusation?  If someone's going to post the smear here, at least have the decency to post the details as well so others reading the accusations can make their own decision.  That's all I ask.  She may indeed be someone that everyone should avoid, but the details should be posted so people can make up their own minds.

... in response to There is no story, posted by Patrick on Jul 6, 2001

Alrighty Patrick,

If my posts appear as cryptic innuendo, it is because I was trying to tightrope "exposing" her versus hanging out "his laundry" specifically. -My mistake, clearly.

Someone wrote that the post on LWL was on March 7, which sounds about right...the title "K-1 Visa/72 hours to disaster" is correct though. Subsequent posts address questions and comments addressed specifically to that relationship.

In my case specifically, the red flags were;

1)She had no desire to live in the U.S., her plan was to "somehow" buy a house and live in Cartagena.(I overheard this conversation between her and a friend)

2)We were supposed to have lunch together "just the two of us", then she shows up once with her best friend, and the next time with her sister and ANOTHER girlfriend. First time "no prob", second time "I don't think so".

3)She needed a "sponsor", someone to pay for the then approaching semester at the private university where she was studying to be an engineer, and wanted me to be said sponsor after knowing me a few days(cummulatively about 24 hours), because I was "special". -Yeah okay, pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.

4)She had no job and a cell phone that was CONSTANTLY ringing, and she always took the calls out of earshot or handed the phone off to her sister. When I asked her she said that they(guys) were "calling for her sister"(oh, did I mention that her sister had her OWN cell phone?). -Her sister slipped up a FEW times and wasn't far enough away, so I heard her sister explaining that Luz couldn't talk right then.

5)My spanish was perfect("te entiendo perfectamente") until I called her on something that she or her sister was doing, then all of a sudden she couldn't understand a word I was saying.

6) During a day trip to Cartagena, she conspired with the driver(we took a car), for him to overcharge me for the return trip and they would split the extra.(another overheard conversation in spanish) -Needless to say, I told him I would pay him upon return to Barranquilla...and when I got to my hotel the driver and I had a "re-negotiation" of the price.

7) As indicated in another post, her sister accepted the engagement proposal of an American guy after knowing him 3 days, and then continued to shop date other Americans(guys flying down to Baq to see her), while her fiance was back in the states working on the K-1. When I asked her about it she rationalized her sister's operation...which was the dirt on the coffin, because it was "nailed" shut in Cartagena.

I was done with it after the Cartagena trip, but she came to my hotel to see me, and we had a "girl are you on crack, or just think I'm stupid" discussion.(during which her sister's actions came into question as well)

Maybe to some guys these weren't red flags, but I call 'em like I see 'em.

Tai

... in response to Re: There is no story, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

Tai

Thanks for the followup.  In my opinion these points are enough to warrant exposing her even without Larry's story.  

A friend of mine is looking for a Russian bride.  Probably the most famous agency owner for Russian brides is Art Steckel.  I read on the RWL board that when it comes to potential foreign brides he has only one question: "Have they ever asked you for money?"  

That's probably a little too cut and dried, but it's not far off either. Even my wife asked me for money to cover her visa costs.  She tried to get more, but that's all I gave her until she arrived.  Since then she's been deep in my pockets, but I'm smiling.  After all, that's what most wives do.

Steve

... in response to Re: There is no story, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

It sounds like you picked up the big red flag right off, that of asking for money. She must really be charming for you not to have just walked away that minute.  

  Larry´s a great guy, and we all owe him a debt of gratitude for his candor in letting us dissect his "real life seminar". I don´t say this to pile on to him, but something you should all keep in mind is "don´t violate your own rules". Larry admitted that he did just that, but I hadn´t heard about the cell phone thing until now. Even Larry said, only half kidding I think, that if she´s got a cell phone, run! I don´t know if owning a cell phone is automatic cause for fleeing, but in my opinion a cell phone shut be shut off during a date, meeting, etc. All cell phones, to my knowledge, have voice mail, and not shutting the phone off when with someone special is just plain discourteous.

  Of course, that ties in to another "rule" violated, that of choosing someone too young.

... in response to Re: There is no story, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

Tai, I think it is important that a man who plans to marry a foreign woman should learn as much about her language and culture as he can.  In your case, your knowledg of Spanish came in quite handy.

 I do not understand though why other AM would not see red-flags with the actions of Luz and her sister. Do AM ignore all for the sake of having a pretty young thing on his arms?

Would the red flags have been more blarring had she been plain. I don't get this. First men complain about the misbehavior of AW.. They lie, are greedy,play men,and do  not appreciate a good man ect. Then they get on a plane and find a foreign girl who lies,is greedy, plays men  cannot appreciate good guy,and they refuse to see or believe a foreign woman can do that because all the hype about foreign women being so sweet and different makes them blind to reality.                                              Wake up! women are the same everywhere. There is good and bad everywhere. Be realistic and stop allowing youth and beauty to whip all common sense out of you. ......Live,learn,listen.                

... in response to Re: Re: There is no story, posted by rick13 on Jul 6, 2001

Knowing how to speak Spanish is a huge help in being able to protect yourself, as Tai has indicated.  Alot of these girls/women are very good at subterfuge and some guys do not want to see the red flags or choose to ignore them.

... in response to Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001


 Why don't you tell us her name and where to find her picture?  This forum is too help other men.  Unless your making this all up.

... in response to Re: Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by Richard Smith on Jul 6, 2001


Never mind.  You give the details in another thread "Operator Advising... yes"".  Good job.

... in response to Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

You've made several posts leading up to you're exposing her, but in mind, you have yet to do that.  You mentioned that she "works" guys, and that there was a "phoney religous conversion", but I don't recall you ever saying exactly what it is that she does that's bad.  What does "working a guy" consist of?  Is she conning money out of men? Is she simply a flake that falls in and out of "love" at the drop of a hat, or is it simply that she's extremely attractive and as such very demanding in terms of what she will accept in a man and ending relationships with them without tact?  

She may indeed be using men, but you have yet to spell it out, at least in my mind.  If you're going to expose her, please at least say what it is that she's done with some detail.  Were the details posted some time in the past?

... in response to How about some details?, posted by Patrick on Jul 6, 2001

If the man involved in this sad story is LG, then beyond a doubt, Tai is doing a great service in unmasking this psycho.  LG's story is well documented on LWL, and I know him to be honest, forthright, and well-balanced.

... in response to Re: How about some details?, posted by Slim on Jul 6, 2001

Yes, the man involved is LG.

He responded to the "Operator advisory...yes" post identifying himself.

Tai

... in response to How about some details?, posted by Patrick on Jul 6, 2001

One large part of the saga is completely spelled out on LWL. For any of those interested in all the unfortunate details.
It's in the LWL archives...
HD

... in response to Re: How about some details?, posted by Houndog on Jul 6, 2001

Patrick, I agree with you about details and have questioned agency bashers on many an occasion for details of their problems. Yes there are two sides to every story....yes the truth probably lies 'somewhere' in the middle in many cases.

Yes the guy that got hurt was possibly 'out of his zone' IMO. OTOH...a truly sincere, honest, forthright person would/could/should have done things to end a relationship/or never have begun one with a little less callousness than the story elicits too.  

IMO...it is just like exposing an agency that provides service detremental to those less worldly and perhaps more nieve than others. This process involves considerably more risk than most newbies realize. And by coming out with the pitfalls along the way...every person is allowed to choose for themselves whether they 'feel lucky' or are a good enough 'snake charmer' not to get bit.

As far as the "predatory types' go...nothing will change them or their outcome...short term...they will only be provided with less/different victims/participants.

Regards, HD

... in response to Re: Re: How about some details?  footnot..., posted by Houndog on Jul 6, 2001

Yes, but other than to say she works men and had some sort of unbelievable religous conversion, he said nothing about what she did.  Without hearing the story, neither I, nor anyone else not privy to the details that some of you seem to know, could make a judgement.  He hasn't exposed her.  He's simply insinuated that she's a bad person to be avoided.  Without details, there's not even one side of the story presented.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: How about some details?  foo..., posted by Patrick on Jul 6, 2001

...yes sorry....several of us know the entire story over a long period of time, as it played out.

Now I understand from the point of yourself and others not knowing in advance of these posts .

HD

... in response to Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

Tai,

Thank you...you did the hard but right thing IMO. Yes I know the guy involved very well and truly felt for him upon reading his story recently. He was, like Hoda mentioned one of my original mentors also..in fact from time to time I still mention one of the aspects I learned from him..."The Sweetness Factor".

Rest assured you have helped others avoid problems possibly. I am firing off several emails to friends and family (my wifes cousin)in Cartagena that will at least prevent anyone that is helped by me and mine to avoid this girl. Sending out the warning of course is all we can do...."Mistake Looking for a Place to Happen"...then like you say...it's individual choice as to "how lucky" a guy thinks he is.

Regards, HD

... in response to Truth, opinion, history, perspective, posted by Tai on Jul 6, 2001

Tai, she is a very attractive girl and obviously very sexy to boot.  Whle most men will think with their little heads when faced with a woman they find attractive,what made you run? Are you better at spotting red flags than the average AM going to a foreign country? Perhaps you can educate some of us here on what to look for. Do you think the very pretty women become spoiled by AM attention,and generosity? Those girls being so much in demand becoming greedy and just like to play. Unfortunately, I think most men on this ride have a false impression that they can get a young cute girl and have her forever. If some of these ladies are already learning to play AM while still in their country,what happens when she gets here? There will be an abundant of men to play with in her new playground.

  Guys, stop going mainly or looks and search for a package! Beautiful women have bought men down since the beginng of time, because some men will place a premium on beauty and refuse to see the bad. There are good attractive women out there.Choose wisely. Again, can you please fill us in on some red flags to avoid?