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(continued) At this point I'm feeling anxious, nervous, excited, happy, everything you can imagine. I'm running through my head all possible scenarios, things we'll talk about, how the men of the family were going to receive me, table manners and etiquette, what to wear. Any other place and this wouldn't have been an issue but cartagena is hot and humid, you just can't wear undershirts, long sleeves, a tie and forget a jacket unless you know you're going to be in an air conditioned place, but even then getting to that place you'll sweat your butt off. But, luck seemed to be on my side because occasionally, the nights on the coast are very pleasant, little humidity with a nice cooling breeze. So I get dressed, slacks, a button down shirt, dress shoes, look in the mirror and think something is missing, a tie. I go back and forth with this, should I, shouldn't I, will I be to hot and uncomfortable. The weather that night is on my side, I know the tie improves my look considerably and I figure, I'm meeting the family, what the hell, I put it on. Now is when I get crazy, I had brought a really nice blue blazer, not a heavy one but a light summer one, should I wear it? I put it on, look in the mirror, I kicked major butt, I was looking real good, how can I not show up like this. But I was also thinking, this might be too much, overkill, well I decided to wear it, at least until I got there and met everyone, then if it got too unbearable I could always take it off. I leave, with wine, aguardiente and gifts in hand. I got everyone a little something, nothing expensive, but things that would say thank you for the invite and everything. For the dad I got a yankee tshirt because he likes baseball, the mom I got perfume, grandmothers a gift set from the body shop which included lotion, moisturizer and a picture frame, the brothers I got NYC tshirts, and for CG perfume.

I leave a little early, knowing that she lives far from where I am plus I expected to hit rush hour traffic. I was right, the traffic getting there was heavy but I get there right on time, so far so good. I had seen her house before when I had dropped her off but I didn't really notice how big it was until that night, it is big. A single level, ranch type place in a nice, quite neighborhood. I get out, ring the bell and she answers, she looked amazing, and she said I looked great, we gave each other a hug and kiss on the cheek and she invited me in. Well, one after the other, her family came out to greet me, "bien venido, buenas noches, mucho gusto, como estas?" to everyone, 'welcome, good evening, a pleasure, how are you?' The father was very warm, kind and made me feel right at home, he took away any anxiety I had about meeting them. They took my wine, they said, " gracias por el detalle" "thank you for the gesture" and asked me if I wanted to take my jacket off, I said yes and they all laughed. Things are starting off good. Then the father suggests that we all sit outside in the patio in front of the house, so we all go out, sit down and start talking. He offers me a beer, I accept the aguila (beer from barranquilla). CG excuses herself to help out with dinner, so I'm left with her dad, grandmothers, 2 brothers and 2 dogs, French poodles.

Something that I should point out that important here is that my Spanish skills are very strong, I understand and speak it almost perfectly, without an accent. If on a scale of 1-10, 10 being a native Colombian, I rank my command of Spanish at 8.5 pushing 9. Very rarely will I have to ask CG what she said, usually it's a word or two that I'm not used to, and rarely will I have trouble saying what  I want to say. It's taken a few years to get to this level,  but for anyone that is seriously interested in finding a colombiana to marry, this is a must, you've got to learn her language just as you expect her to learn English. Smiles, hugs and kisses are nice in the beginning but for a woman that is really serious about this, someone who isn't looking for just a visa and a way over here, it'll get old for her if she feels she cannot communicate with you. It's frustrating for both when you feel your partner doesn't understand you, imagine her telling you something important or intimate only to have her see a blank stare on your face, not good. Invest the time and money to learn, take a class, buy tapes, videos, computer programs, watch univision, telemundo, rcn and caracol if you have cable, watch the colmbian soaps, it'll all help, but you have got to want to, not feel like you have to. As Americans we want things quick and easy, we want to take a pill for everything because we're to lazy to do the work needed, to invest the time required. Learning Spanish, finding a great colombiana will take time and money, anyone who isn't prepared to do this should step aside until they are ready to do so. Ok, enough of my preaching.

So I'm talking it up with the family, one by one they ask about me, my family, life in the states, how I like cartagena, what I've done and where CG and I have been. Her grandmother(fathers mother) lives in the US, is a citizen and is with them until the end of the year. CG has aunts and uncles in the US, so we swap stories about life in the states. Her dad has also visited the US and one of her brothers lived here for 5 years. He can travel back and forth because his visa allows it. Her mother at one point brought out the gift I had sent her months before for Christmas, a picture frame with multiple windows, she put a picture of all of her children in it, she loved it. Her dad tell me about his life in the Colombian navy, how he loves cartagenaand how much he loves CG.They have an incredible relationship, CG described it as the relationship that anthony hopkins had with his daughter in Meet Joe Black. very close. We talk some more until CG tells us dinner is served. We all go into the dining room, mom and dad are at the heads of the table, CG and I on one side, the brothers on the other, the grandmothers stay outside and eat later.

I should mention that throught my time with CG, I had been a total gentleman with regards to opening doors, pulling and pushing her seat when we sat at a table, getting up when she left and returned from making a phone call, letting her get out of elevators before I did, things like that, let me tell you that Colombian women LOVE that. You are not dealing with American women, colombianas expect their men to be caballeros,  to take the lead and be the man WITHOUT being machista, too macho, they HATE that.

The dinner looks great, the table set perfectly, it's obvious that they took the time to set this up and I'm glad that I was dressed well, even though I was the only one with a tie, it didn't matter, I did it out of respect for myself, CG and her family. We started with a salad, it had a bit of fruit in it, delicious. Then her dad opened the red wine I had brought, I brought one red and one white because I didn't know what they would be serving. Get into the habit of toasting at every occasion and saying a few words, this is not only nice but will go over very big with everyone, more on that later. Her dad toasted, welcoming me to their home, telling me that I'm always welcomed there, he killed me with his kindness. We all ate meat with patacones and arroz con coco, all delicious. You'll notice that the arroz con coco(rice) is served like a little mound, looks like they put it in a mold or a cup, pack it down then turn it upside down to serve, very typical everywhere. Her dad told me that everyone in the family knows how to cook and cook well, even the boys. They then asked if I could cook, I told them a little, but not as good as the meal they prepared but that I wanted to learn, which is the truth but I've been to lazy to do so.  he said not to worry that like everything else, if I want to, with a little practice I could learn, it's not difficult at all, what a cool guy. We talked some more, ate some more, then went back out to the patio. This time it was the brothers turn to ask questions, this was a bit more difficult with the older brother, he was obviously trying to figure out who this guy was who was interested in his sister. He was not rude at all, he was very nice, funny but I could sense that he was being more careful and not as willing to let me in as quickly as the rest, no problem, I expected it and knew I could charm his pants off.  To be continued  
steve

... in response to cartagena trip report part 3, posted by jediknight on Jun 14, 2001

de verdad que tu crees que el castellano es necesario para encontrar una esposa? hay mucho tipos aqui que no hablan ni un carajo y ellos andan con colombianas.  tu novia te quito' la arrechera???     que vaina, cuentame mas.  

no he visto muchos que hablen castellano aqui  me gustaria que me respondieras en español.  como y donde lo aprendiste??  de hecho, me parece que la mayoria no lo habla como el houndog ese y el junfan aquello  pero ellos ya estan comprometidos.

... in response to oye muchacho  que arrechera, posted by Traveler on Jun 14, 2001

I was born in El Salvador but I was raised in this country,  I can understand spanish but speaking it is troublesome for me and reading it...forget about it.

... in response to Where did you two learn how to speak and..., posted by JUAN on Jun 15, 2001

and then Puerto Rico

... in response to Where did you two learn how to speak and..., posted by JUAN on Jun 15, 2001

and then Puerto Rico

... in response to oye muchacho  que arrechera, posted by Traveler on Jun 14, 2001

para mi, si, es necesario hablar y entender castellano, para otros no. yo seria incapaz de estar con una mujer o tener una esposa que no me va a comprender, que me va a decir cosas que no voy a entender o que no pudiera tener una conversacion conmigo, eso seria fatal. claro que espero que ella aprenda ingles, pero al principio y me imagino despues tambien, que es sumamente importante que yo entiendo lo que ella me quiere decir. comense a hablar y despues escribir hace como tres anos con unos companeros de trabajo que son colombianos, me ayudaron muchisimo.

... in response to Re: oye muchacho  que arrechera, posted by jediknight on Jun 15, 2001

estar alli y "seleccionar" tu esposa futura sin poder hablar con ella.  me pienso que ellos hacen cuando estan solos afuera de las agencias con la muchacha,  señales de mano???   muchas sonrisas?, y gestiones corporales me imagino, pero la comunicacion real no existiria.    

como puede saber si tu pareja es compatible contigo?? como obtiene el conocimiento de su historia, lo que piensa, lo que esta es su alma sin poder conversar con ella??   es raro no.  pero, como te dije, la mayoria aqui no hablan mucho.

... in response to seria un poco extraño no??, posted by Traveler on Jun 15, 2001

You're right-on about we gringos that have to use sign language or body gestures to comminicate with our latin dates.In the early days I would open my mouth wide and point my finger towards my mouth to indicate that I was hungry.  I also would grab my crotch and squirm and point to the men's room if I had to excuse myself.  I did that in a resturant one time with a date and when I returned she had skipped out on me.  At first I thought she had scammed me out of a dinner so I was ticked-off.  But then this Colombian guy who was sitting nearby came up to me and told me in English that she had left abruptly, complaining loudly and angrily about my bathroom gesture.  He said tactfully that I should stop doing that behavior on future dates with Colombian ladies. He also said the lady he was with didn't like it either.  So thereafter I always took my Spanish dictionary with me.  My date never did thank me for the dinner!  Rudeness! But I chalked it up to experience.

... in response to Re: seria un poco extraño no??, posted by buzzy on Jun 16, 2001

well, there are some very basic words that you should attempt to know.  baño being one of them.  

that is too funny.  surely you could have thought of something else.  I hope you're being sarcastic when you say it was rude of her to leave, because, while hilarious, it certainly wasn't the most tasteful maneuver on your part.

... in response to lol!!!  hahahhaha  I can't believe you d..., posted by Traveler on Jun 16, 2001

What word do the use for it in Colombia? I remember the very first time I went to Mexico and I asked some guy "donde esta un bano?" and (being very helpful) he lead me about 5 blocks away, to a Turkish bath type health club! I said "what is this???" and he explained that your could pay a fee and take a bath and I said "Hombre! No quierro banarme, tengo que orinar" and he said, something like "oh, sorry, if THAT'S what you need, next time ask for a 'sanitario'."

... in response to bano?, posted by Michael B on Jun 16, 2001

for the most part I think people understand what you mean by baño, especially if you are in a restaurant with a date

... in response to perhaps you should have said EL baño not..., posted by Traveler on Jun 16, 2001

No, I wasn't in a resturant nor with a date. I was just walking down a street somewhere between the Alameda and the Zocalo in the DF.

... in response to seria un poco extraño no??, posted by Traveler on Jun 15, 2001

estoy completamente de acuerdo. Pienso que una mujer muy seria en encontrar alguien por medios de agencia o lo que sea, estaria buscando un hombre que la va a entender con mas que una sonrisa, unas carisias, mas que con un diccionario, pero hay hombres y parejas que lo estan haciendo asi, los admiro porque es dificil y les mando mucha suerte, espero que esten juntos para siempre.

... in response to cartagena trip report part 3, posted by jediknight on Jun 14, 2001

....glad you liked Cartagena

One note, I know quite a few guys that go south without taking years off to learn Espanol and I assure you they are not only very serious, but in many cases equally prepared to deal with and solve the challenges of the process.

I've always felt it's unfair to try and disuade guys from seeking love by trying to place unfair and/or unfounded restrictions or barriers on them. While language is certianly one challenge, it is not IMO the biggest challenge.

And take it from a guy that has recieved e-mails and phone calls asking for help, the women will have to learn english or languish in a type of isolation that quickly intensifies homesickness and problems adjusting.

Houndog

... in response to Re: cartagena trip report part 3, posted by Houndog on Jun 14, 2001

Rather than take time off to learn Spanish first, I would suggest studying it as you go.  If it takes two years to get married, you can learn quite a bit before the wedding if you apply yourself.  

Just as there are men who have no desire to speak Spanish marrying Latinas, there are also Latinas with no desire to study English who want to marry Americans.  Sometimes they naively believe that they will somehow "absorb" the language by living here and that concentrated study will not be needed.  If two like-minded people get together, forget it.

Without a true desire to learn English and dedication to the task, she's not going to learn it well.  It could take years before a couple learns to communicate effectively if neither is interested in learning the other's language.

One thing I've heard from several men recently married to Latinas is that they wish they could talk about things with their wives.  Maybe they want to discuss something happening at work, or a problem in a relationship with a friend or relative, but they have trouble with anything other than simple sentences and therefore can not easily share their thoughts.  There's much more to intimacy than the physical aspect, and without effective communication, you'll be missing a lot.

... in response to Learning Spanish, posted by Patrick on Jun 16, 2001

Learn Spanish in ADDITION to the rest of the process. I don't understand where the assumption that one can speak decent Spanish precludes being a good person etc.

You are absolutely right that 2 years is certainly enough time to become somewhat profficient in the language.
Even though the woman must learn English if she is going to live in the states, having a spouse that she can talk to in her language will help a great deal

... in response to Learning Spanish, posted by Patrick on Jun 16, 2001

Patrick and others,

You(collectively) can ommit and/or twist this in any direction. I never said don't learn spanish ! I'm not going to follow along chasing strays after this reply.

I think it's important to communicate. I think learning Spanish is a wonderful idea and agree that learning along the way is possible. Discussing things about work or how deep the ocean is or where the edge of the universe might be with a spouse is fine. Some might "have to" have those conversations immediately, others may possess the "patience" to wait and deal with other aspects of this process first.  

However bemoaning failure because of language barriers is simply laying unfounded fear in the minds of guys that have every right to go see for themselves if this is for them and what they really want. It is actually beneficial IMO for guys to face challeges in this proccess in order for each to be able to evaluate if ones own choices and directions in life can be met successfully. Just as tests will be important to see if the woman has what it takes in the face of adversity and challenges.

HD

... in response to Re: Learning Spanish, posted by Houndog on Jun 16, 2001

2 or 3 years right.  yet you didn't even know that poquito means "a little" whereas pequeño is the correct word for small.  don't make excuses. do your homework  its obvious that many guys in this forum don't speak Spanish.  it seems sufficient, and frequent, to simply go to an agency pick a few girls find one that is willing to go out with you, maybe write some letters visit Colombia a few times, and go through the beauracracy with Immigration.  however, I ask myself where is the real communication.  not that you do, but how do you discuss deep personal issues, opinions, philosphy, familily histories, personal dreams to this person.

I know it happens frequently that a gringo goes to Colombia and marries a woman he can't even talk to, but its something I wouldn't do.  

how do you "know" she is the "one" as you put it.  you spewed alot BS on this board.  let's hear some details on the selection process.  on your date.  How did you know???  what's her favorite color??

... in response to you've been in this process for how long..., posted by Traveler on Jun 16, 2001

you're even more of an idiot than jedi...LOL..

... in response to Re: cartagena trip report part 3, posted by Houndog on Jun 14, 2001

I agree that there are many guys that head south who are very serious and quite capable of handling any kind of problems that may develop with limited spanish skills. If my post came off as trying to discourage those that don't know spanish, it wasn't my intention. I think that just as a colombiana is expected to learn english over time, we should begin to learn their culture and language asap and continue to learn during and after the process of finding a wife, not just a little or enought to get by, but strive to learn as much as possible.

... in response to Re: Re: cartagena trip report part 3, posted by jediknight on Jun 15, 2001

before you go, as much as possible, will also aid you during your search as well as down the road when you bring her here.  The point I have tried to make to PL is that this is very important.  I would not minimize how much easier this process is if you can speak español.  It is worth the effort.  At least to me it was.  Other people may have other views.

... in response to Re: Re: cartagena trip report part 3, posted by jediknight on Jun 15, 2001

Of course we should learn about them, their country, their culture, etc.

That's not what you said or what I replied to.

HD

... in response to Re: Re: cartagena trip report part 3, posted by jediknight on Jun 15, 2001

Yes the women need to learn English ASAP to ease the loneliness and homesickness.

Not having anyone around that speaks their language will be MUCH harder if their husbands don't at least speak it! If you want to help your wife through the hard part, knowing some Spanish helps.

... in response to cartagena trip report part 3, posted by jediknight on Jun 14, 2001

you are doing well 'young Luke'...the force is strong with you, my young Jedi...

Seriously, from what I've read, you did a perfect job and handled yourself well.  The first family meeting can be a nervous experience, that is until you meet them.  I, and you, have found that the Colombian people go out of their way to make you feel comfortable.  Soooooooo, which girl is gonna be?

Later,
Mike

www.sparhard.com/colombia.htm