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Hi, I have a question for the guys who are already married and for the ones who are gonna get married.

What have you done or are you gonna do when the first months of euphoria are gone and she starts complaining about America and Americans telling things like the following:

- How good her country is compare to the United States (even with all the problems we have in South America)
- How difficult is to make friends here.
- Americans are cold.
- I miss my family so much.
- Chineses are right. Americans are wrong (just to put an example
- Americans are impatient with foreigners. They just don't like people who has an accent.

I know you will be patient but after a year of listening to this complaints. What are you gonna do?

I'll appreciate your input.

Georgina

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

I think the is to be as patient as possable take as much time out for each other......

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

Georgina,
My wife went through something like you talk about when she first got here.That was when she missed her family and her country and didn't yet have friends here.She likes it here better over time,not worse.She has several good friends.She talks to her mother every day and we go visit once a year,the last time for 32 days.
I asked her the other day where she prefered to live,here or Cali.She said here.It is cleaner ans safer and there are lots of opportunities(she wants to work when her english gets better).She also rattled off a list of all her favorite places here.She still misses her family but thinks this is a far better place to live.
The real adjustment and depression was in the first 2 months.
Question.Where do you live?Sometimes a person can live one place and wish to live another,but you are really voting your preference by where you actually are.We make choices that includes many factors and the result is where we live,work and who we are in relationship with.It is a personal choice.

Pete

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

Thanks for your wonderful posting.  Ask an American for help and typically he or she will bend over backwards to lend assistance.  I don't believe the steroptype that Americans are cold.  Unless we're talking about the superficial exterior that people wear on their faces in public.  Americans tend to mind their own business and allow others their own space.  But call on an American for help!  Why we'd give the shirts off our backs!  Americans are approachable and friendly people.  But they have to be addressed.  Americans typically are sincere.  What they say they mean!  What is seen in their eyes is the truth!  How refreshing!  Of course Americans don't have some of the wonderful attributes that other countries peoples' have but that's what makes life interesting and complimentary.  Think how you must stand out....with all your special qualities.  And remember we were all foreigners at one time or another.  We've just been here longer than you!  People have always moved away from their homes since the dawn of mankind for love, jobs, opportunities, obligations, commitments, religious freedoms, adventures, civil liberties, education,  etc. etc. Look at what you've gained.  The gains outweigh the losses.  That's life for all of us, some losses but some wonderful gains.  Truthfully the MOB experience is not so easy.  It takes much courage, much perseverance, much faith, much compromise.  I always recognized the need for my fiance to stay connected with her family, with visits, calls, letters, etc.  It's only natural.  Good luck and thanks for your posting.

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

My wife and I don't really get into the "My country's better" discussions.  I think we both realize that each country and culture has it's strong points.

As for friends, we have a wide circle of friends.  Many of them Latinos or mixed couples.  My wife met many people in her ESL classes.  Some of the parties we've gone to have been pretty interesting with people from all over the world.  I don't think she's had trouble making friends.  Most of the people in our circle of mutual friends and either Latin or mixed marriages (gringos married to Latinas).  It's probably easier here in San Diego for immigrants because we have a pretty diverse population.  Some other parts of the country are almost 100% white and I can understand how a Latin woman could feel isolated.

Americans are cold?  Yes, I'd agree if you compared the average American to the Average Latino.  Much more of the kissing and hugging with them than the Anglos I know.  Easy solution for us-  We have Latin friends!

I miss my family-  That's why we applied for a re-entry visa right after we were married. My wife goes home for visits about once per year and keeps in touch by telephone as well.    She doesn't complain about missing her family because she knows that she can go to Colombia to visit anytime she wants.

Americans are impatient with foreigners (with accents).  Yes, I think that's true, especially in the work place with professionals.  Excellent English is very important for for anyone wanting to work as a professional here.  Once again, I think we're lucky to be living in San Diego.  There's many accounting positions for bilingual people.

After a year of listening to complaints, what am I gonna do?  It's been 4 years since she arrived here, but I haven't gotten tired of complaints, mostly because there haven't been many.  I think this is one of the reasons why it's important for the man to learn Spanish.  Once you've been through a few courses, you realize how difficult it is to truly master a foreign language and it makes you more patient with your wife learning English (which is far harder to learn than Spanish by the way).  That, and it facilitates better communication up front, before your wife learns English well.  Most guys assume the only reason to learn it is to make themselves "more attractive" to Latin women, but there's more important reasons than that.

You're correct about the "euphoria" period.  I read a book on culture shock that described typical immigrants reaction to live in a new country.  First is euphoria.  Everything's wonderful and a new experience.  Then they go into depression and alternate between ever reducing levels of either dispare or elation until things level out.  

You make some very good points about what it's like for a new immigrant here and the guys should listen carefully.

... in response to Re: A question for you guys..., posted by Patrick on Apr 27, 2001

Patrick,

Do you remember the name of that book and who it is by?

David W.

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

Georgina,
I might just agree with her about some of those points that you mentioned, but she may have a real culture shock in my country. It's like the US in many ways but without the Latin/African compliment. She'll be happy for much, but very homesick. I think trips home are essential, so the money for that needs to be available. I am also seeking out the few Latinas in my city, she'll need to speak her language, and have friends from her part of the world, and hopefully I can find some Colombianas. The rest of the cure is devotion and patience, two of the important ingredients of love. I have known quite a few Filipina women who were desperately homesick for the Philippines, but after only a few years, home has shifted, from there to here. I think that is a turning point, when she refers to home, and she no longer means Colombia.

just my thoughts,
Martin

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

What have you done or are you gonna do when the first months of euphoria are gone and she starts complaining about America and Americans telling things like the following:

- I started some time ago, in introducing Stivalis to life in the states. News reports in Spanish & English. A couple of local Spanish newspapers have websites that she can read up on while in Cali. As I post this, my only real concern is her adaption to our changing weather.

How good her country is compare to the United States (even with all the problems we have in South America)
- We reconize & discuss the good & bad in both countries. She was concerned about how she would be received here. She had some legit concerns
about race relations here. She has never lived around so many different cultures & people. With her personality, she'll adjust fine.

How difficult is to make friends here.
- knowing my lady as I do, she won't have any problems making new friends.

Americans are cold.
- the weather yes, the people she'll be meeting initially no.

I miss my family so much.
- A natural reaction. If she didn't miss them, something would be wrong. There is no way to predict the level of homesickness, until the cord is cut & they're here.
 
Chineses are right. Americans are wrong (just to put an example
- I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Please explain.

Americans are impatient with foreigners. They just don't like people who has an accent.
- Americans don't like other americans with accents. Try being a New Yorker visiting family in Alabama. I hear it all the time..."Yew talk funny cuz". Part of the beauty of this country is the different sounds & taste. I for one welcome the differences.

I know you will be patient but after a year of listening to this complaints. What are you gonna do?
- If she still is moaning & groaning after a couple of months, you have some serious issues in that relationship which must be addressed.

Peace...Hoda

... in response to Good questions..., posted by Hodajr on Apr 27, 2001

-reading current news is not a replacement for actually living somewhere foreign

-she will most likely migrate to other Spanish speaking people

-Americans are cold.   compared to latin americans, we are cold.  this is a quite common perception of Americans by latins.  Your friends might be social enough but in the day to day living encountering Americans in general, I'll bet she arrives at the same conclusion

-I think she meant the US is always trying to push everyone else around.  The Chinese were "right" in saying the US is always sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.  that's my read on her point.

-Americans are not hospitable to foreigners in general

-she WILL miss home

... in response to sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

Funny you should say that! I've encountered many Americans who are wonderfully friendly people, it's the few that expect the rest of the world to subserviently bow and scrape in their presence that spoil it all!

The Latins I have met are very physical people. I have been hugged and kissed by people that I've just met. The coldness of Americans (and many other western nationalities) that you speak of, is more often a manifestation of fear and insecurity.

Human beings are tactile creatures, and most of them would prefer to be so, it's the consequences of a paranoid culture that they fear. The other problem is that the warmth of a Latin can be confused in the "cold" culture. A hug and kiss from a beautiful Latina could be confused with an amorous advance, and if a Latino gives you a big hug and rubs your back, well initially, what would you be thinking he wants?  

The Latin cultures have deficiencies also, and hopefully, the continual mixing of our customs will smooth all of this out eventually and leave us all the better for it.

... in response to Re: sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Martin T on Apr 28, 2001

NM

... in response to Re: sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Martin T on Apr 28, 2001

You're a looney toon.

Houndog

... in response to sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

His 'point of view' is a very good place to start with 'his lady' and 'his relationship'...don't you think .

Should he use 'your' point of view...a confessed "stroller" and general all around strikeout ???

I certianly would hope not..!!!

Get Real..!!!

Houndog

... in response to sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

reading current news is not a replacement for actually living somewhere foreign

- Of course not! But it's a START! Most people READ about a place before visiting. I suppose you GO first then read.

she will most likely migrate to other Spanish speaking people

- You Think!!! Colombia is not as culturally diversified as NYC. She has the social skills that will enable her to mingle with all she comes in contact with.

-Americans are cold. compared to latin americans, we are cold. this is a quite common perception of Americans by latins.

- Cold how? Please be more specific.

Your friends might be social enough but in the day to day living encountering Americans in general, I'll bet she arrives at the same conclusion

- Me, my family & the family she has in the area will not be her total world. A lot of times your attitude & the way you carry yourself, will determine the people & the vibe you surround yourself with. You don't know her or her world, so for you to predict her conclusions is ridiculous.

-I think she meant the US is always trying to push everyone else around.

- Did she say that? It sounds like YOUR point of view!

The Chinese were "right" in saying the US is always sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. that's my read on her point.

- Did she say that? It sounds like YOUR point of view

Americans are not hospitable to foreigners in general

- I suppose you have some scientific poll or some other  evidence to support this point. While you're gathering your proof. Check the numbers on how hospitable the rest of the world are to americans. You need to seperate People from Political policy.

-she WILL miss home

- You think?????

... in response to She requested points of view!!!!!, posted by Hodajr on Apr 27, 2001

you live in NYC.  she will have even more opportunity to meet other latins than in most places, she will seek them out.

-I find a country I'm interested in.  read about cool places to visit and go.  I don't think you get much about the flare of the culture or the taste of the food from reading an article

-her life will not be limited to you and your family unless you keep her in the closet.  she will make her own determinations regarding Americans

-cold - aloof, distant, not especially friendly especially with strangers.  not particularly friendly with neighbors.  not real social with people beyond the inner circle of friends and family.   surely you have noticed the kisses on the cheek, the tendency to go out in larger groups, it seems like they "know" everybody.

- I have found that latin people are much more hospitable towards foreigners than Americans are.  personal observation, not just point of view.

- I guarantee it.  

... in response to touchy  touchy now aren't we, posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

Still not impressed....

you live in NYC. she will have even more opportunity to meet other latins than in most places, she will seek them out.

- Wow, there's a revelation!

-I find a country I'm interested in. read about cool places to visit and go. I don't think you get much about the flare of the culture or the taste of the food from reading an article

- Aahh, so you read FIRST!!! That was my point in terms of introducting something different to someone...

-her life will not be limited to you and your family unless you keep her in the closet. she will make her own determinations regarding Americans

- Yet another revelation...

-cold - aloof, distant, not especially friendly especially with strangers. not particularly friendly with neighbors. not real social with people beyond the inner circle of friends and family. surely you have noticed the kisses on the cheek, the tendency to go out in larger groups, it seems like they "know" everybody.

- Sounds like people you can find ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD!!!

- I have found that latin people are much more hospitable towards foreigners than Americans are. personal observation, not just point of view.

- Ahem...a personal observation is a point of view.

- I guarantee it.

No guarantees in life, except that one day it will end!

... in response to Been down this road before w/you....., posted by Hodajr on Apr 27, 2001

in fact, science is the means of explaining what is observed in nature.  

a point of view can be anything, but not necessarly based on experience.  

example

malandro says, "I think Venezuela is a nice country"   I have been there, I speak from experience.

Hoda says, "I think Venezuela is a nice country"  purely conjecture.  just an opinion not based on any experience

see the difference

people are different all over the world.  don't you find latin culture friendly.  kind of warm and fuzzy??  isn't that one of the things that draws you to it??

however being in NYC there will be numerous advantages for her.  a large latin community, plenty of activity.  however, Idaho might not be the same.  (That is my personal opinion)

I don't think we are so far apart.

... in response to an observation has experience behind it., posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

in fact, science is the means of explaining what is observed in nature.

- Careful how you use science/data. Results can be skewed to form observation(s) which are not always honest.

a point of view can be anything, but not necessarly based on experience.

- A point of view can be on anything...Period! How it is interpreted is purely subjective.

example

malandro says, "I think Venezuela is a nice country" I have been there, I speak from experience.

- The person interpreting/listening or reading still make a subjective decision on the value of your experience.

Hoda says, "I think Venezuela is a nice country" purely conjecture. just an opinion not based on any experience

- refer to above answer. Two people go to the same movie, one claims it's great, the other said, it sucks. Whose experience do you believe. I can sing the praises of Colombian woman based on my "Experience" till I'm 90. Will my experience convice you to go....No! LOL!

see the difference

- see the difference

people are different all over the world. don't you find latin culture friendly. kind of warm and fuzzy?? isn't that one of the things that draws you to it??

- Absolutely, no doubt about it. But one does not live by warm & fuzzy alone. I enjoy Cali, but I don't think I could live there permanetly. I find warm and friendly everywhere.
Of course some places more than others. Latin culture sure wasn't "warm & fuzzy" the last time I went through the airport at Cali....

however being in NYC there will be numerous advantages for her. a large latin community, plenty of activity. however, Idaho might not be the same. (That is my personal opinion)

- Understood...But who's to say the woman who goes to Idaho won't be happy. She might embrace the change more than you think...

I don't think we are so far apart.

- Apart yes, far no...Peace

... in response to Experience isn't an absolute....., posted by Hodajr on Apr 27, 2001

At least the part about Latin people being "warmer".  I've probably spent a total of around 6 months in various Latin countries over the years and have had many Latino friends (actual Latinos, not second generation Chicanos).  I also believe that Latin people are, in general, warmer and more accepting of foreigners than Americans.  I think if you poll enough people who've been around both Latin and American cultures a lot you'd get an overwhelming percentage in agreement with this.  I talked with an older Mexican man once who said, "America is good for the wallet, but bad for the soul."  I think he pretty much summed it up.

There's plenty of happy Latinas here though, in spite of our culture.  Now, let's get back to bringing more of them to the U.S. to bring about further "latinafication" of this place!

... in response to But I'd have to back him up on that, posted by Patrick on Apr 27, 2001

Latin people do seem open and warm.Americans may be like this to not like this depending on the people and location.I guess I would agree that latins are generally warmer.
But,how about some of them that will rob you,kidnap you and kill you?I think its a larger percentage than here,or maybe they are just more blatant.My wife told me a story about riding busses in Cali that might give you a whole different impression of how nice some latinos can be.

Pete

... in response to Re: Yes but how about the latins who are..., posted by Pete Eiguren on Apr 28, 2001

I have to agree with this. When you get into the 'core' of the people, yes they are warm and friendly. However I saw frowns and scowls on faces in malls in Cali and Cartagena just like I see here.

Yes they walk around more and have open and social nieghborhoods that we don't seem to have. But this is the core group. And most have families that have lived in the same places for generations and lots of relatives , so it seems like everybody knows everybody else. I think this is what many of us find attractive about the culture, however there is plenty of the not so nice stuff to go around also, like Machismo. So Better...I don't know about that in the broadest sense. Small scale yes. Different, definately.

When was the last time one of us was Hugged by a Taxi Driver or a DAS at the Airport ?

Houndog

... in response to But I'd have to back him up on that, posted by Patrick on Apr 27, 2001

No doubt about latin people being warmer. In America being good for the wallet but bad for the soul. Well...I have some different takes on that! But enough of this! Back to bringing more latinas to the U.S. but only for those deserving. We can go back & forth for days & still be in the same place as which we started!!!1

Peace...Hoda

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

Just kidding...Georgina, great question! Why don't you set up some sort of network to make transitions for Colombian women a little easier. IN THE MESSAGES YOU POST YOU SEEM VERY COMPASSIONATE AND SINCERE.

Ever considered setting up some sort of site. With a little help it could be set up. A place for these women to go to ask questions and get input from others that face same the challenges. I'm sure many of the guys that participate in this forum would probably donate some time and or resources to a cause that can only help their relationships or perspective ones to come. I know I would.

Just my own thoughts.

... in response to lock her in the broom closet with the do..., posted by tommi on Apr 27, 2001

But I think it may have been a lady who later was ill and she may not have gotten it off the ground.  Was it Sylvia???  ANybody remember anything about that?

... in response to I think somebody already started that, posted by Patrick on Apr 27, 2001

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/esposaslatinas/

NW Jim

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

Hi,

I can't say I have direct information, but a close friend of mine married a women from Cali last June. It has been a difficult transition for her. She has had a difficult time learning English, more than what I would consider normal. This fact has made it very difficult to obtain work for herself.

They have been fortunate in that her family have the resources to travel to the USA.  For awhile her mother came to stay with them.  It was a big help.  She has a sister in Florida. So there is some direct family contact.

She has a very bad opinion of life in Cali now, so she has not missed that area of her life. She has not complained about the differences in society. Her entire family is working on getting out of Colombia, one by one.

But it has been a difficult transition for her.  They have had some difficult times. But there is genuine love between and my friend says they have been sucessful in working in out, and that now they are closer than ever.

She essentially lived at home until she got married. So it was a large adjustment to become a wife, to live in a foreign country, and to be away from home, all at the same time.  No one said it was going to be easy.

Hope this helps,
mike

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

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... in response to good questions, the responses should be ..., posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

n/t

... in response to Can't people find their own screen names..., posted by Traveller on Apr 27, 2001

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