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The Philippine spouse visa 13A requirements are listed here.  http://www.immigration.gov.ph/conversion01.php

The RBR 98-01 form listed is the general purpose form referred to at the top of the Bureau of Immigration's downloadable forms page.
http://www.immigration.gov.ph/downloadable_forms.php

... in response to immigrating to Philippines by marriage, posted by Luther on Mar 12, 2005

Me and Ched went through the philipno line last time and they stamped my passport with a visa good for one year.

Dan

... in response to Re: immigrating to Philippines by marria..., posted by DanAndChed on Mar 12, 2005

Hi Dan,

That was for the Balikbayan visa. You were eligible because your were a spouse (also good for children) of a returning Filipino or former Filipino citizen and you were traveling together. Luther wouldn't be able to use that one if he travels solo.

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: immigrating to Philippines by ma..., posted by Ray on Mar 12, 2005

Yep.  All I can say was it was pretty scarry when we got through immigration and she smiled at me saying we could stay a year.  Go for three weeks, stay a year.

Dan

... in response to immigrating to Philippines by marriage, posted by Luther on Mar 12, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Luther,

After reading that link, I say just get the original 21 or 59 day visa, then get extentions. Keep up with it, and once a year give yourself a treat by taking a United Arab Emirites Airlines 1 1/2 hr. ride to Honk Kong for $200 dollars and go shopping. It's alot easier that way, and alot more fun.

UAE Air is the best Airline out there.

If you'll forgive me, Luther, I'd like to ask a question I am curious about, though I acknowledge, it isn't any of my beeswax. I can't help but ask, it's my nature. What is the nature of the disability you are getting at age 48? I have read all your stuff and you have said:

a.) "I worked for it"

b.)"I am my own worst enemy when it comes to attracting bags of money, and a good woman living here with me could make a difference in the level of income that I am willing to motivate myself to work toward."

c.)"I have written a 600 page "black comedy" about me and my 35 jobs. The sequel is in process but I hope it doesn't keep getting "funnier" as I take on the responsibilies of being a father. Raising kids is no joke and I hope my kids benefit from my vast experience with going nowhere, rather than simply inheriting my "disability."

Are you gettin' a nut check or what? Did you hurt yourself, or did you convince some shrink you took too much acid back in the day, and now after 35 jobs in 30 years,, your obviously not cut out to work? I mean, I don't care, it's just that it is the the "elephant in the room" here. And you keep alluding to it. What's the disability? I would like to know so I could give you a solid opinion. I know a bit about living in the Philippines. Even Know a bit about being married to a Filipina, though the more I know, the less I undestand. :-)

Not trying to be too personal, but I had to ask. If you check the archives you'll see I am the guy on this board known for asking direct questions, amongst other things. :-) Any friend of Howards is a friend of mine. Liberal or not. ;-)

Take care,
Jay

... in response to Re: immigrating to Philippines by marria..., posted by Jay on Mar 12, 2005

It's my fault for alluding to it.  I've been told I have childish ways of getting attention.  Basically I am self-obsessed but have nobody to talk to about it.  I have moved almost 200 times and had over 35 jobs so my social contacts are slim to nonexistent.  I think people are out to get me though I am in control of it most of the time.  I can't talk too good because my mind goes blank when people are looking at me, so I have to write to exorcise demons that would keep me awake at night.  (Now someone is gonna pick all the negative parts out of this and say, "Then what makes you competent to be married to a Filipina (or anyone else)?"  Well I'm not tied to a chair drooling on my self or hallucinating so I have to maintain contact with some of my social needs despite the fact that it seems impossible to approach people much of the time.  Simply put, I crave the love of a woman same as anyone else.

I am intelligent but not socially or emotionally (except for what I have learned the hard way).  I lost a job the other day because my new boss was new to the pizza biz and didn't want to learn it from me, and I failed to recognize his right to be a stupid jerk if he wanted to be, so he made it his biz to prove I was the stupid jerk.  Last night I dreamed he was with my ex-wife and I was trying to be his friend while also planning martial arts moves to use against him.

This will be 600 pages long if I don't cut it short now.  Yes it's nut pay and yes I did convince a shrink that I did not have what it takes in emotional fortitude to survive in a world where rent is $700/mo and minimum wage is $7/hr and nuclear families do not help each other after age 18 unless I beg for it.  Something about the word nuclear has driven people into their separate domiciles.  Even one of my wives wanted a separate domicile from me.  Hahahahahaha.

The official diagnosis is schizoid affective disorder, a "personality disorder" which is not related to schizophrenia.  It just means I live in a fantasy world dissociated from the rest of the human race.  In my world I am not disabled, I am king.  But in contrast to the "real" world (which I do not believe in, even as it continues to kick me in the teeth and steal all my money) I am disabled.  It wasn't until I acknowledged and asserted that I was disabled in the eyes of everyone else's reality that the state was willing to help me out with a monthly check.

So I tried to work for a living over 35 times and I'm still trying.  I was out of a job for less than two days because I have good contacts here in the pizza biz and I'm good at what I do, and have trained some of my ex-bosses.  Social Security allows me to earn $800 per month before I lose my benefits.  I've only had this check for less than 2 years though I applied 3 times when I was in my 20s but they wouldn't give it to me because they thought I'd spend it on drugs which might be true.

Well if you want to have a further discussion about it let's do it by email, OK?  This is the world wide web and it's probably a sign of my social stupidity to discuss it on this forum.

I hope I am smart enough to delete this post while I have the chance.  If not, Jeff please take it down for me, be a pal.

... in response to the elephant in the room, posted by Luther on Mar 12, 2005

Hi Luther,

Well, thanks for being so honest. I was just curious and as I said it's none of my buisness. Actualy you and I sound alot alike. :-) I'm 42 and have had over 50 jobs. And all the rest sounds alot like me. My own older brother who reads this board called me to tell me about your post (I was asleep). He said, "It sounds alot like you Jay haha".

Anyway, bro, don't worry about anyone picking on you here for sharing something so deeply personal. I for one, would jump all over them if they did. So would alot of others here. Matter of fact I have shared some seriously personal things on this board. More than anyone here. (Can I get a witness? Somebody tell the man!) I have never gotten a hard time about it.

No more need to discuss it, you have already graciously answered my question. Delete your post if you wish, but even though it's cyber space, you are still relatively anonymous here, even with pics. Knowing more about you, just makes the rest of us feel closer to you, I believe. Welcome to the PL/Asian board family.

Jay

... in response to Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 12, 2005

Thanks Jay, and no I don't feel like I need to delete the post.  I would never have made it through that 600 page project if I was particularly embarrassed by the life I have lived.  Lately I have felt like I was sort of dominating this forum but I guess no one is forced to read my posts.

My question for you is, since you sound like a bit of a wanderer in some ways, has living in the Philippines given you a sense of belonging somewhere?  Do you think you've found something by living there that you wouldn't have found by bringing your asawa to the States?  Have you found a relaxed environment that takes the edge off your ramblin' jones?

My other question for myself is, how do I explain to Jovie that my $700 a month check will go a lot farther in the Phils toward renovating the house, than any hope of the two of us coming here to the US, changing my personality so I can find a high-falootin' job (anyone know what a faloot is?), and somehow saving enough money while paying over $1000/month rent plus the cost of raising a child and keeping a vehicle operating...do I need to show her a balance sheet?  Maybe a budget or business plan kind of thing, with a big negative number for a bottom line.

To me the advantage of her owning a home in the Phils plus the advantage of me having this check that's worth P39,000 per month there (and worth SQUAT here) seems obvious.  How do I bust her bubble without making it look like it's all my fault?  "Sorry honey, I'm what is called in the US a "sorry-ass loser" so we actually can't afford to raise our family in the US."

Sure the US is the cradle of opportunity for ambitious types who are socially multi-talented enough to know what to do in the "real world" and how to motivate themselves through the shark tanks to the pot of gold.  But her ambition is to kiss babies at home and my ambition is to deliver pizza or build air cars or play my guitar or something, so is there really any reason for her to even come here?  Wouldn't it be an expensive failed experiment before it even started?

Yes like Ray says, medical care here is better and safer.  But since I can't afford either the Americano doctor or the Americano health insurance, even when I'm working, isn't it better to take my fixed income to my wife's non-mortgaged home and take our chances there where she has BIG TIME connections everywhere you look????

I'm not trying to set up a lounge-around existence, sitting under a mango tree drinking rum.  I work every day of my life to make the world a better place, as some of you know who have visited my website.  I never completely stop being a productive contributing member of society no matter how weird I feel inside, so as some of my air car groupies have repeatedly suggested, am I not wasting my life in low-paying jobs when I could be out there beating the bushes to make my dream come true?

OK I admit, the problem is that I am very slow to learn from Jovie what she really wants.  Now that she has come right out and said she really wants to come to the US, what I think I hear her saying is that she wants to come here to make money.  Well OK I'm willing to try that.  I just needed to rave about it a little.  But when I did everything my last wife said she wanted to do (mainly move every few months) it destroyed me financially and destroyed the marriage.  So as usual I don't know what to do, but at least I know we love each other and I'm sure it will all work out somehow no matter where we live.

My other question is: is there really such a thing as a submissive Filipina who actually accepts her husband's decisions, or would I be sending myself right up the proverbial creek by saying, "Sorry honey ko, we can't afford to live in the US, and that's final."  I know, all this stuff should have been resolved before we got married.  But until I got there, I had no idea I was gonna fall in love with the Philippines, and I had no idea Jovie owned a house.

... in response to Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

Luther,

It is “generally” true that the majority of those Filipinas marrying Americans do want to come here and make money. Not to say that’s their only motivation, but it is often one part of the equation. Why do you think so many Filipinas are working in Hong Kong or Bahrain cleaning toilets and changing diapers? Because they like the lifestyle? No, because they are trying to make money to help the folks back home.

A few Filipinas will be satisfied to come here and stay home all day raising the kids, but from my experience, probably 95% have worked outside the home for some period of time. I know single Filipina moms here who are working 3-4 jobs to make enough to survive on and still send money home to the Phils.

Every case is different including yours, but it’s another factor to consider. When you said your wife told you she wants to save up a nest egg for retirement, I have to admit that’s probably the first time I have ever heard of a Filipina saying that. Usually, saving for the future is a foreign concept in the Philippines for the most part, so yours sounds truly special :-)

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

Hi Luther,

I'm still up and just chillin', so I thought I would go ahead and try to answer some of your questions best I can. I hate makin' folks wait, though I do it often enough. :-)

I'll just give you my best opinion, but it is in no way "Gospel." It's just my views based on personal experiences. I don't do this for all, but you've kinda grown on me. :-)

We'll do it paragraph by paragraph, it's easier for me to answer that way.

"My question for you is, since you sound like a bit of a wanderer in some ways, has living in the Philippines given you a sense of belonging somewhere? Do you think you've found something by living there that you wouldn't have found by bringing your asawa to the States? Have you found a relaxed environment that takes the edge off your ramblin' jones?

Well yes. Living in the Philippines as an adult did give me a sense of belonging. However I was there from 12 to 17 growing up, so that probably had something to do with it. I returned at age 30. I had had enough of the US and dead end jobs, going nowhere and not accomplishing shit. Most all due to my own fault through drugs alcohol and going to prison. I didn't really give myself much of a chance back then.

Anyway, I sobered up, saved a lot of money working for $6.50 hr. plus overtime and off I went. However, I got drunk, got married and spent all my money. We tried to survive by me working whatever odd jobs I could, and her too. My wife never wanted to come here, but luckily some fella's tried to grease me and we had to leave. I came here and did the paperwork for my wife and stepdaughter. However, had I a steady income such as a SS check, we would still be there. I woulda greased those fella's and all would have been fine, but with no money in the Philippines you have no "legal" recourse or anyway to fight back really. Hell I couldn't even afford a beer, let alone a weapon.

So you see, our situations are a little bit different, but I CAN still answer your questions. YES, living in the Philippines gave me a "sense of belonging somewhere." Especially after my failed attempts here. YES, living with my wife in the Philippines first before here gave us something we wouldn't have had without it. It at least gave me the sense that she was willing to be with me whatever the place we lived and whatever the circumstances. It gave us our first real trust of each other, I suppose.YES, I did have "a relaxed environment that takes the edge off your ramblin' jones?". Especially with San Miguel Beer. I DO so hope you don't mind a beer, Luther. It would be hard for me to recommend a man move to the Philippines if he didn't have the desire to tip a brew once in a while or do a shot with the neighbors.

NEXT:

"My other question for myself is, how do I explain to Jovie that my $700 a month check will go a lot farther in the Phils toward renovating the house, than any hope of the two of us coming here to the US, changing my personality so I can find a high-falootin' job (anyone know what a faloot is?), and somehow saving enough money while paying over $1000/month rent plus the cost of raising a child and keeping a vehicle operating...do I need to show her a balance sheet? Maybe a budget or business plan kind of thing, with a big negative number for a bottom line."

Simple. Just be honest and tell her how it is. The sooner the better.

NEXT:

"To me the advantage of her owning a home in the Phils plus the advantage of me having this check that's worth P39,000 per month there (and worth SQUAT here) seems obvious. How do I bust her bubble without making it look like it's all my fault? "Sorry honey, I'm what is called in the US a "sorry-ass loser" so we actually can't afford to raise our family in the US."

Burst it immediately. It is your fault you ain't told her this yet, so suck it up. Rephrase the "sorry ass loser" (and don't be so hard on yourself, Filipina's HATE that) and just explain from a knowledgeable point of view. She doesn't know anything about how it is here and no matter how much you explain, she'll never get it, even if she seems like she does. So be the man and explain what's best for your future family. Filipina's want you to be the man. So be it. Takes some gettin' used to, but you can do it.

NEXT:

Sure the US is the cradle of opportunity for ambitious types who are socially multi-talented enough to know what to do in the "real world" and how to motivate themselves through the shark tanks to the pot of gold. But her ambition is to kiss babies at home and my ambition is to deliver pizza or build air cars or play my guitar or something, so is there really any reason for her to even come here? Wouldn't it be an expensive failed experiment before it even started?"

Well, to not even try it here would be contempt prior to investigation, and that is never a good policy in my opinion. My wife came here and after a year of being a seamstress here asked if she could work with me copying litigation documents. Well, I got her the job, taught her how to do it and in days she was better than me and everyone else at the company at that work. Within a year she became a manager and now has worked as a manager at this Fortune 50 Company for the last 7 years. Go figure. She's earned more money in her 9 years here than I have  earned legally in 20+ years here. So you never know. Might be she is a good worker, and she just needs the opportunities, and it would be a  shame to deny her that, if that's her dream.

NEXT:

"Yes, like Ray says, medical care here is better and safer. But since I can't afford either the American doctor or the American health insurance, even when I'm working, isn't it better to take my fixed income to my wife's non-mortgaged home and take our chances there where she has BIG TIME connections everywhere you look????"

Well, this is a tricky one. Ray is right, of course. However, If two could get some savings from those nut checks, to afford airline tickets once a year, you can use the local doctors until something comes up, then come here for treatment. Public hospitals in the US are still free and have better docs and meeds than the best Philippine hospitals.

NEXT:

"I'm not trying to set up a lounge-around existence, sitting under a mango tree drinking rum. I work every day of my life to make the world a better place, as some of you know who have visited my website. I never completely stop being a productive contributing member of society no matter how weird I feel inside, so as some of my air car groupies have repeatedly suggested, am I not wasting my life in low-paying jobs when I could be out there beating the bushes to make my dream come true?"

What in the world is wrong with a "lounge-around existence, sitting under a mango tree drinking rum"??? If I had a check you can bet that's what I would be doing! Good thing I don't have a check as I have a little problem with the fire water. Problem is, I like it a bit TOO much. That's why I don't drink anymore. Usually :-)

What the hell is an air car?

NEXT:

"OK I admit, the problem is that I am very slow to learn from Jovie what she really wants. Now that she has come right out and said she really wants to come to the US, what I think I hear her saying is that she wants to come here to make money. Well, OK I'm willing to try that. I just needed to rave about it a little. But when I did everything my last wife said she wanted to do (mainly move every few months) it destroyed me financially and destroyed the marriage. So as usual I don't know what to do, but at least I know we love each other and I'm sure it will all work out somehow no matter where we live."

Well, one thing I've learned is Filipina's will never tell you what they really want. Unless they are yelling and by that time your already f@cked, so nevermind. All YOU can do for now, is try and figure out what she really wants. However, in the end it really will be "up to you", meaning you must make the decision. It's their way. So you better hurry up and start to hone your mind reading powers if you want to know what she thinks. After a while you'll get used to it, and you'll have a good idea what she thinks, and can make your decisions (meaning best guess) accordingly. Don't compare her to your ex. Either in your mind or out loud. Jovie is nothing like your ex. Lastly, now is the time you'll find out if "it will all work out somehow no matter where we live." You HOPE at this point. Best to find out early is my humble opinion.

NEXT:

"My other question is: is there really such a thing as a submissive Filipina who actually accepts her husband's decisions, or would I be sending myself right up the proverbial creek by saying, "Sorry honey ko, we can't afford to live in the US, and that's final." I know, all this stuff should have been resolved before we got married. But until I got there, I had no idea I was gonna fall in love with the Philippines, and I had no idea Jovie owned a house."

I'll probably get flack for this, but yes there is. As a matter of fact, that would be considered a "Traditional Filipina". Beware of using the word "submissive" loosely, though. It can get you into all kinds of trouble with all kinds kinds of people. American and Filipino. The submissive thing is really just a way to keep their man. Also they are the ones REALLY in charge, even though you think you are. Don't ever forget it or fool yourself into thinking otherwise. Been there, done that. Not good. That's a unique Filipina trait, it's one of the reasons I love Filipina's and it sets them apart from some other women in my mind. They are masters of relationships. Usually. If you get some crazy Filipina, then all bets are off, anything  can happen. Been there, done that too. :-)

No, you wouldn't be up the creek if you said that, and you would probably earn her respect for being honest and not wishy-washy. They like that.

Your right, all this should have been discussed long ago, or at least mentioned, but we can't foresee everything.

If I were you Luther, I would be making arrangements now. Matter of fact, I would already be there, smiling broadly in my new life with my new wife, happily awaiting my nut check, sitting under a palm tree drinking rum. :-) What the hell, GO for it! Tell her clearly whats up, tie a string around your nutz and pull 'em down hard. Be a man. You got nothing to loose.

That's my opinion. I'll probably get some flack, but that my final answer. I think. :-)

Take Care,
Jay  

 

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Some great advice there Jay!

Yes, those Filipina wives really are the ones in charge, aren’t they? What differentiates them from the typical Western wife is that they may “appear” to be submissive in public so you can save face, while they actually have you by the nuts. But traditional Filipinas know how to use their feminine charms to get their way, probably much like the women here up until about 50 years ago. That’s the way it should be IMHO.

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Something about being in the Philippines made it a lot easier to lounge around than what I'm used to.  I used to be like my mom, who used to listen to the radio and read a book while she did the ironing.  But I've slowed way down and I think I'm well on the way to learning how to sit still.  Since I passed the point where I thought I was actually going to save the world with air cars, I have gotten downright lazy.  The invention of the VCR helped considerably, since I don't like standard TV fare, and the personal computer had a lot of influence in helping me come to terms with "the chair."

Air cars are cars that run on compressed air.  They use the same type of engine as a steam car.  Air was used in locomotives for metropolitan transit and mining from about 1890 to about 1930, and keeps popping up as an idea for automobiles because of oil prices, pollution, and the huge expense and complication of other alternatives being suggested.  I won't go into detail here but my website is http://www.aircaraccess.com.  For 25 years I have been doing air car research instead of working on practical goals, that's why I say I have made a contribution in spite of appearing to be a failure by some standards of success.

Yes I agree, best to find out early if living together is going to work for us.  Of course I am convinced or I wouldn't have married her, but she has a choice in the matter and always has the option of sending me home.  While I don't want to encourage that to happen, I believe I stand a better chance of making it work with her by getting down there and doing it, than by hanging around here waiting for the US govt to decide whether she will be allowed to come here and learn what it's like to be broke in America.

I feel that Jovie is more assertive than Filipinas are supposed to be, and that might be one of the reasons she didn't marry when she was young.  But you're right, she has told me more than once that I have to be able to make decisions.

We haven't had our first real fight yet, but I did see her at her worst once (or hopefully pretty close).  It turned out she'd had the flu for Christmas, and a few days after Christmas I tried to chat with her and she was a real bear.  No smiles.  I happened to mention that my next door neighbor smokes pot, and she didn't speak to me for ten minutes.  I thought something was wrong with my computer, so I restarted it, and when I got back online she requested that I never mention marijuana again.  A few minutes later I said my ex-wife had tracked me down by finding my website, and she jumped down my throat before I could say another word, requesting that I never mention my ex-wife again.  There was one other thing I said that night that she had a bad reaction to, but I don't remember what it was.  Next time we chatted she was back to normal.  But I will have to tread lightly when she has the flu, or a headache.  I heard a long time ago that Filipinas are not to be trifled with, and if I was not serious about spending my life with this one, I would have risked contempt, beatings, and a red X on my forehead to stop everything and run the other way.

Once I met her, the fact that Jovie has a definite knack for relaxing, being comfortable, and not worrying about a damn thing was a definite plus; if I had sensed that she was driven by ambition I might have called it off or precipitated a crisis to encourage her to call it off.

I am glad we had this little talk, and I'm glad I told her last night that I definitely see living in the US as a long shot.  The fact that I have this monthly check and that she owns a house to me would make it inexcusable to miss the opportunity to be living with her before the baby is born.

Right now Jovie has gone back to her job but might take pregnancy leave soon because of her age and because of the cysts.  The main reason I am not planning to go there until September is that Toto, Aiko and their kids are building a house for themselves, and if I moved there now it would prematurely displace people who are working hard to make room for Jovie in her own house.  The other main reason is that I have to find a good home for my dogs, who have been with me about ten years.  Leaving them is going to be one of the hardest things I ever did, and infinitely easier if I can tell myself that they are happy in a good home.

When I told Jovie I wanted to come in September, she said, "Yes, honey ko, SEPTEMBER 1!!"

Dudes, it is so nice to be wanted.

... in response to ...and the next..., posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Luther,

I wrote a very long reply last night to your posts, but lost it. My computer has been having some freeze ups lately, and I wrote it in notepad, but forgot to save as I wrote. I was just about done when it froze and I lost the whole thing. I was heartbroken, and to make matters worse, I type with one and sometimes two, fingers. LOL! It's a real project for me to crank out a long post like that. It was one of my best posts to date. Full of pearls of wisdom about Filipina's etc. I'm sure you, and the guys here who know me would have enjoyed it alot. Oh well.

I am off early from work tonight and am about to play a WW2 strategy game for a while. I am begining a 7 battle campain as the Germans across the plains of Russia. Have been looking foeward to it all day. However, I will quite in a couple of hours to try and recreate that post from last night. I mean, we WERE in the middle of a conversation and I enjoy writing to you and reading your posts. You are wanted here, so I wanted to write this short note to let you know I haven't forgot about you.

Talk to you in a bit.

Take Care,
Jay

PS, if you prefer the phone, I will give you my number and we can talk. I have a feeling you and I could talk for hours. :-) I once spent 8 hrs on the phone with a guy on this board called Dave h. Can you imagine?! I never even talked to a girl on the phone that long. LOL! He was just an easy guy to talk to. :-)

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by Jay on Mar 14, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Luther,

Well, guess what. My drunken next door nieghbor, took tonite as the nite to come over for the first time in a year I've been here. He brought a 12 pack and drank it. He got more drunk and finaly left just a minute ago. It's 5:00 AM I'm going to sleep. No game, no post. Oh well, I'll save all my pearls of wisdom for next time.

Anyway, take your time, move out there for a year and get ready to come back here. However, use that year to tell her the reality. See what happens. That's my advice in a nutshell.

Drunks are so f@cking annoying, sheesh!!  :-)

Take Care,
Jay

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by Jay on Mar 14, 2005

Hi Luther,

Well, guess what. My drunken next door nieghbor, took tonite as the nite to come over for the first time in a year I've been here. He got more drunk and finaly left just a minute ago. It's 5:00 Am I'm going to sleep. No game, no post. Oh well, I'll save all my pearls of wisdom for next time.

Anyway, take your time, move out there for a year and get ready to come back here. However, use that year to tell her the reality. See what happens. That's my advice in a nutshell.

Drunks are so f@cking annoying, sheesh!!  :-)

Take Care,
Jay

... in response to ...and the next..., posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

I always tell a person to do what feels best for them, go with your gut feelings they are usually right. And I think that could very well be the case here but there are other folks involved and as a part of a family unit you have to consider how your decisions will effect others. Ive put my feet down in 31 cities in 20 different countries and I can say without a doubt that the good ole US of A is far and away the best place to live on the planet, hands down. I love the heritage and deep dark history of my wifes home country and i want my children to be proud of their own race and origins but in reality the Philippines is a 3rd world country. The choice between the two IMO is a no brainer

I think your selling yourself and your prospects short and in doing so maybe dashing the dreams of your new wife. Let me try and illustrate through some of my recent experiences with my Filipina. These are things that have happened to us since she has arrived that would have no chance of happening in the PI. And for the record while our situations are different in alot of ways in they are very mcuh the same, A $700 check handed to you every month is nothing to sneeze at. When we went to Detroit for the AOS I took her to  see a Kid Rock concert at the Joe Louis arena and we had a nice weekend she was blown away by it all. We go to the near by Indian res for smaller concerts, we saw America her favorite show so far, she plays the nickle slots all night when we go. NFL football games, she knows nothing about the sport but loves the road trip and excitement of crowds. Travelled to chicago for Concerts and sight seeing. She loved Navy pier and the Sears tower, I told her since the WTC was levelled she was now atop the tallest building in the US (I think). She has a sister in Canada who she was able to visit after not seeing her for many years. We regularly get together with an extensive (for a rural area)Philippino/Asian community that would give us the shirts off their backs if we were in need (some of our childrens future god parents im sure). She did two road trips with my mom to visit my relatives in TN and cant wait to go see others in FL (shes been beggin for Disneyland since we were e mailing years ago) I have to tell her its Disneyworld in FL. I could go on and on and on the opportunities and excitemnet she has experienced in this country in the eyes of a Filipina are endless and It warms my heart to be able to delivery these small things that mean so much to her.

But it doesnt stop there, you really have to look at this from her perspective. I dont like to get into my personal life but I will because I think it will help. Im a skilled machinist and when I brought her over I was making decent money and over the years have build up some assets that are starting to show a return. But when the company I worked for closed down enough of the work ended up in Canada that all the employees were eligible for NAFTA. So Ive spent the last two and a half years collecting unemployment and going to college. I recently graduated with AAS in computer Tech and got my A+ certification. I feel like I made the best of what could have been a bad situation, I know alot of the guys pouted about losing their jobs and let it drag their lives down forcing them into jobs they dont want to work or moving to more populated areas to find more suitable work. Anyway during this time we had been trying to start a family, it took some time (an activity I was only to willing to keep trying at) but eventually she concieved. At this point I was worried because I had let my insurance lapse and delivering a baby aint cheap. But It didnt matter I felt blessed that at 43 years old I was finally going to start a family and at 9 years younger my wife felt the same way money want an object. So even though I knew about the 5 year rule for immmigrants getting means tested benefits I went down anyway and was told by the state that in fact they could not insure my pregnant wife. We fell through that crack but were caught by a program implemented by the county to cover just such a situation. Ya see even though she was a recent immigrant, Im a citizen and the child in her womb is a citizen and we deserve and got MY wifes medicaide through this county program. Both of our children were born in the local hospital with the best care on the planet. If you dont think that watching well paid RNs scurry to change her babies diaper wasnt an overwhelming experience for a poor girl from Manila you would be wrong. Like I said I recently graduted and will soon find work, have income from other areas and a little money saved so I am kind of cherry pickin through the jobs right now, if it comes to it maybe I can go make Pizzas to make ends meet. In the meantime my UE bnes have run out but the wife is gettin WIC, FIA is giving a more than adequate supply of food stamps Which are on a card so I dont have to go through the embarrasing sh!t at the grocery store) and I am able to spend quality time at home with my infant children which is a blessing of which I had no idea.

Theres more, early on when I was laid off I was having some trouble with some trig in tech math. Later that night the wife picked up the book, went in the corner and about an hour later came to me with the solution to the problem I was having. I knew she was smart, she went to Chinese schools when she was young for most of elementary school. In the profile I responded to she said she had a bachelors in Business but told me right away that was not true that when making the profile she was around a bunch of people at work who she had told she had a degree to get the job. She even had forged degrees and transcripts in case they ever asked to see them. It was always her dream however to go to college and become a successful biz woman. After she solved the tech math problem for me I said as long as im going to school why not her. When I went to see about a Pell Grant They said she had to prove she was a high school grduate,. But she had dropped out of school in the PI early to help run the family business and I dont know if it would have qualified anyway. So she went and got her GED, did it in record time with scores that were through the roof. 4 months later she was approved for her pell and is in the accounting program at the local U, staright As 4.0 as she just got her AA in accounting.

I think you get the picture, the US is without a doubt the best place to live on earth especially if your raising a family on a tight budget you just have to pick the right spot. I think the path you want to take is selfish but sometimes we have to be in order to cope so I wouldnt begrudge you that. It sounds like you have had a pretty rough go of it so maybe its best to do like your Filipina says and take it slow (they have to be the slowest people on earth) I constantly have a prod in my wife in the ass). There is a whole freakin country between LA nad NY, Ive heard others here describe you as a liberal but dont look at rural America with such a jaundiced eye, between the liberal coasts is an opportunity America you just have to be OK with living with us rednecks. Right now I could turn on my TV and go to the real estate channel and find a 20 or 40 acres with an old farm house for less than $500 bucks a month. You would have money to spare with your check and if you can earn another $800 free and clear you could live well out here. It doenst sound much like your family is very caring so theres no reason to stay where your at. Economies in these areas lack opportunity but you got the check and cost of living is low. Its also great to raise children in rural or country areas, I desperately want to stay here so my kids can go to schools where classrooms are small and i barBcue several times a summer with their teachers. Theres no reason to pay $1000 bux a month rent, your painting yourself into a corner that doesnt exist and subconsciously removing your options so you can do what you want to do. But Luther you have a family now, you have to consider their  wants and needs and what is truly best for them as well as yourself.  

You really do have alot going for you, $700 a month is a nice stake. You are welcome to come join us Bush lovers in the land of milk and honey anytime. Good luck

Bryan

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by bryan on Mar 14, 2005

:-)

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by bryan on Mar 14, 2005

Bryan, thanks for your words and it will take me some time to digest them.  You're right about the fact that I don't have to be stuck on the expensive west coast, actually I was born in southern Colorado which is dirt poor and I went to high school in Kansas, to Jr high school in New Mexico, and my mom lives alone in a big farmhouse near a small town north of Denver.  So actually I have been looking into living in the Midwest again, not only to conserve money, but my mom in Colo and my sister in NM have been more interested in Jovie and communicative during this whole process than the whole west coast branch of the family.

I don't think Jovie is gonna let me permanently go to sleep in a comfy chair under a mango tree and forget about the opportunities available in the US.  In fact they don't have any comfy chairs on her whole property, at least not to my western tastes.  Right now it is more important for us to be together because she is pregnant, than to make her spousal visa #1 priority.  When I come back to the US after a year in the Phils, I might be spending my time with my mom in Colorado rather than the clan of hermit crabs on the west coast.

I already asked my mom to send me the classifieds from her local paper, and she mentioned to me that her stepson has some rentals...so you never know what might happen.  There is nothing about my current life that precludes having it happen in a rural environment in the US, in fact living amongst wealthy aristocrats in suburban Portland downright gags me.  I don't know if these spoiled pups are mainly liberal or mainly conservative, I think I am just allergic to money.

Once again I repeat, there is no such thing in my world as "liberal" and "conservative."  I use those terms as shorthand for what really is, which is shades of gray between the black and the white.  I don't think much of political extremism on either end of the spectrum but I also don't think I will find exclusively Bush lovers out in the middle of the country.  I know plenty of knee jerk liberals in Kansas.

... in response to the midwest, posted by Luther on Mar 14, 2005

Im gladd to hear you have family in a place that might be a better adjustment for you and your new family. And the political stuff was just a little razzing. Ive been hearing Sante Fe New Mexico is a lovely place to visit, I bet she would love a weekend there. It occurred to me about half way through that post that I might sound a little condscending, I didnt mean to be I was trying to give my experiences and views on how my wife just loves this country and why. I guess you would have to have been living in a cave all your live not realize that there was really other more economical options. To be honest i could use a year under a mango tree myself, enjoy

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by bryan on Mar 14, 2005

Yes - look at Minnesota guy. He has an organic nursery in rural Minnesota, and I suspect he's more liberal than not. When he brought his Filipina wife here, he had no running water in the house - from the sounds of her post, no central heat, either - just a wood burning stove. Here's a post from his wife, Carmen: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/search/searchdisplay.php?page=asian&archive=000149&id=47351

And I'm sure most people here are familiar with Raquel's (febtember) story, expecting to move to the US and live in a little hut: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/search/searchdisplay.php?page=asian&archive=000080&id=28524

If you don't mind a fixer upper - you can do a lot better than $500 a month, too:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12605&item=4364700627&rd=1

-Jeff

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by bryan on Mar 14, 2005

I would like to say that i grew up in South Miami and got my first piece of a$$ in a mango grove so the fruit has a special place in my heart. If your wife owns property in the PI and you can kick back that doesnt sound bad as long as that is what everyone truly wants

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Yes I like to drink a little beer.  I like anything that has alcohol in it but have never gotten hooked on it because I don't like to spin.  So two beers is my normal limit.  I did drink San Miguel there several times in one month and started liking the recipe, though at first I missed the microbrews we have on the west coast here.  San Miguel grew on me though, and I like it better than the American popular beers like Bud and Coors.

It looks like Tanduay Rum must give out their signs for free, since there's one of their signs on the front of every other little mom and pop store, with Mom and Pop's store name added to it.

My first drink of beer in the Phils was one night at Manggahan when Jovie's brother Toto was emceeing a karaoke event for his co-workers.  It was right on the heels of Jovie's shower party which her co-officemates had attended with huge enthusiasm, I swear those women must have been exjausted after jumping up and down shrieking with laughter all afternoon.  Anyhow as night came, Toto's friends started singing, and none of them could carry a tune but I sat in because the way they threw themselves into what they were doing it was obviously the place to be.  It turned out they were saying goodbye to a friend who had died.  Toto kept pouring me glasses of beer, which I tried to refuse because the book I read had warned against saying yes to everything that would be offered to me, lest I be considered a drunken wife beater.  And at least six people had asked me straight out the night I first arrived, whether I smoke or drank.

As I eventually learned, Toto is not only the smoker and drinker in the family, he is also the most religious, the leader of the neighborhood chapel, and the one involved in Barangay politics.  So obviously while this family is basically clean, sober, and moral, they do not interpret morality in black-and-white terms and from what I have read, the Catholic Church was unsuccessful in taking the native out of the natives.  My experience with church officials backs this up.  No one was uptight about the rules and there was a lot of flexibility; people seem to judge individuals on their merit and not on a preconceived or inflexible set of social expectations.

I understand and accept that my sarcastic self-deprecation as a form of humor is going to go over like a brick banana in the Philippines, and I found that a simpler version of humor, basic slapstick with no personal meaning attached, is what they appreciate.  I have seen comedies here that are so dark and sinister, the thought always occurs to me that I would not rent this type of movie if I had a family, and in the Phils it's gonna be simple uncomplicated entertainment as opposed to convoluted ironic plots and twisted villains as the good guy.  Actually even I will turn a movie off if there is no character to like.

Fortunately I am not a TV junkie and the TV programming in the Philippines is not remotely interesting to me.  I had to make a conscious choice to not be annoyed by the shouting news announcers, the saccharin love stories imported from Korea and dubbed in Tagalog, the Grade C superhero fantasies--and there was little else to watch.  I will take advantage of the fact that the TV is always on to use it as a language lesson.

I might have made it sound like I have never told Jovie that I am not a breadwinner like the stereotypical American male is supposed to be.  That is not true; my Cherry Blossoms ad said, "I do not have any money, I just need someone to care about."  Her response was, "I am not materialistic, I just want my own family."  So we have gone back and forth about how to make it financially in the US.  I was training as a machinist when we first met and could stay here to continue that training at the community college, IF I could afford to live here.  Ironically to me, most of my relatives in this area have room for me, Jovie, and a baby in their home but no offers have been forthcoming, and I chalk it up to the American myth of the nuclear family (Myth?  I say: Nuclear yes, Family no!  I am a great fan of the extended family because the nuclear family gave me no options when I was growing up.  I was stuck with my parents' lack of social experience, etc.  No aunts and uncles and lolo's and lola's to run to for advice, etc.)

Anyhow, it seemed like the ovarian cyst scare spurred Jovie to get something off her chest: she told me she wanted to live in the US long enough to accumulate a nest egg for retirement.  Not a bad idea, nothing wrong with it.  But you're right, if I know it can't work then I have to decide against pretending that we are going down that road, only to have it fall apart around us or see her go into a career to save my ass from a goal that I could not hold up my end of.

I know it is possible that if Jovie came here, she would find a good job and end up making more money than I've seen in my life.  I would not be against that happening.  However from my experience with her, I feel that she honestly wants to stop going to a job and be a mother and housewife.  She wants to go shopping with more than P100 in her pocket.  She wants to watch her babies grow and watch her nieces and nephews grow.  Like you say, she doesn't have any idea what it's really like in the US, and if I stand firm and make the decision to live where I think we will succeed as a family, then I will have killed a whole bunch of birds with one rock: she will respect me as a decisionmaker, I will be doing what I want instead of pretending to chase a goal that doesn't interest me, and we will be in the midst of a happy, healthy extended family where the dysfunctionality I learned from my broken nuclear family will not tend to hog the show or become the main influence in how we live our life.  (Dad's in a bad mood again, why did he give up his social security check?  I wish he'd just take a hike...)

The point being, last night I told Jovie that it won't work for us to come here to save money, and she took it very well.  I've hinted around at it before but thanks to you guys I was able to say it loud and say it proud: I yam what I yam, let's get on with our lives and choose a happy, already-existing reality to live in, instead of a hopeful fantasy to live in that would require me to change my personality in order for it to work.  I said it in capital letter:  my costs are way over $1000 a month here and my earning ability is not enough to keep up with that:  we cannot realistically expect to save money just by virtue of living in the US.  She said OK, then we will live at Manggahan and yes honey ko, P39,000 per month is plenty of money to live on and fix up the house too.  Her concluding statement was that she would not be in a hurry.  Which implies that it is not the last I have heard of her interest in living in the US.

It seems reasonable to hope to save some of the money I will have coming in and like you say, head for the States for serious medical needs or annual dentistry work.  Obviously one or both of us is going to have to take saving money seriously because P39,000 per month is not great wealth.  But it is 7 x what she has been making at her full-time job.

... in response to the next installment, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

Ever think about Belize? http://www.belizeretire.com/

BTW, the LA Times ran a major piece on pneumatic cars last week. It was fascinating. I'm sure you can find it on latimes.com.

- Jeff

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Jeff has some wise words there. Might wanna take that into account as well. :-)

Jay

... in response to PS-, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Thanks Jay, I will give your post some time later on in the day because I would probably like to write another essay in response.  Before computers I had no social life, now I write long letters daily to people I have never met.  Reminds me of that King Crimson song, 21st Century Schizoid Man.

... in response to Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

Luther, if you'd like me to take down the posts, just let me know. They certainly aren't argumentative and I think your soul baring isn't off topic, as it adds some dimension to your other posts, and lets readers fill in more about you. Jay isn't exactly Mr. Sublety here; he seems to have a knack for getting right to the point.

As for submissive ladies, it doesn't take a submissive lady to enjoy life with you on with a tight budget, just a cooperative one. You may even find out your wife is thriftier than you are. Mine certainly is. My wife is anything but submissive, but she still asks me before spending anything of consequence, and that's after nearly 20 years together, and with her handling the day to day home finances. It's all about respect not submission. It's also not about nationality, culture or even families - my wife's sister is completely opposite of her, spending whatever she can get her hands on, and whatever anyone will loan her (credit cards), and fighting with her husbands til she drives them away with her incessant demands. So the bottom line is pick the right girl, and you should have no problems. Just keep your relationship cooperative, not combative.

- Jeff

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jeff S on Mar 13, 2005

Thanks Jeff, all of your points are good.  No don't take down the posts, I was just afraid I would make a target of myself but I'm not worried about it now.

I had a wife once who was cooperative, even submissive, about informing me the minute I walked into the house of how many bad checks she had written that day for me to cover.  That's where the cooperative attitude ended, or I should say, it ended when the credit cards were maxed out, and when it finally came home to her that I was really going through with the bankruptcy and the days of living off credit cards were really over, she tried to scratch my eyes out!  It was while she was flying through the air (with me holding onto her so she would not hit the ground too hard) that I suddenly realized what I liked about her: it was her helplessness, her inabilities that made me feel like a wise, helpful big brother.  So I have not gone out looking for a helpless little sister to marry this time around.

I should not use the term submissive because it's kinda irrelevant to me.  I mean I did not go out looking for a submissive woman, in fact "liberals" often end up with the real battleaxes who are out for the lively sport of neutering any male who tries to get close.  I've been that route too.  But I had heard that "Filipinas are submissive" so it caused some confusion in me to find that Jovie is full of self-confidence, partly because at her age she has been making all her own decisions for many years, and partly because she is a sagittarius on the cusp of scorpio. (Read: "it's just her personality to be sure of herself.")

But she still wants me to be a decisionmaker on the big stuff while she snuffs many of my little decisions without a second thought, and she still has that other trait everyone talks about, of making me read her mind: "It ish your decision, honey ko, you are my hushbaaaaand..."  Her desire to live in the US in order to make large amounts of money to retire on has surfaced only twice in all our conversations, and my first instinct (learned from a passive father, a true liberal) was to say, "OK honey, anything you want, you are my wife..."  But the numbers don't match up so last night I told her straight out that she could not expect me to know where the big piles of money are just because I was born in the US, and she agreed to not be in a hurry about getting here.  She also agreed that it would be no problem to renovate her house with my $700 per month fixed income.

And I agree that it is ultimately not about nationality or culture, because people are individuals and there are vast differences of personality even among siblings in the same family.  I've seen that too.

... in response to Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Luther,

I'll have to answer your questions later tonight. It's 8:40AM EST, Sunday,  and I'm at work, and going home to sleep now. I'm beat, though I haven't really done alot tonight. :-) Had my wife here to help though. Made it alot more fun.;-)

Anyway, sorry to make you wait on a reply, but I'll post later tonight when I wake up.

Take Care,
Jay

... in response to Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 12, 2005

Yes Jay, I can attest to that... :-)

Ray

... in response to Witness, posted by Ray on Mar 12, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Ray,

Thanks! Knew I could count on you for that. CAN I GET A WITNESS??? That song has been going through my head ever since I wrote that. :-) I'm now at work it's 3:30 AM  LOL!

Take Care,
Jay