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Title: Thank you for your concern! Post by: Howard on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM Guys,
Thank you all so much for your overwhelming support! All of your advice is much appreciated, please keep it coming! I know it looks bad, becuase it's hard to get everything out on paper. How do you sum up an entire relationship in one post? If nothing else, just getting this off my chest makes me feel better! I am back to feeling like myself and ready to take this challenge head on! It would take forever to respond to each and every one of you individually, so I decided just to make another post and share more of what's going on in the hopes that we can continue this discussion. I value the input from each and every one of you even if I don't like or agree with what you have to say. Where the Hell is Ray when ya need him? LOL! I see the things that most of you do, but I see more than that. I have been in a three month depression that has only made me withdraw, but NO more! I am ready to lick this problem and get on with my life, our life. Here are some little things that make me think that this is my fault. I am the elder and more the more mature of us, no matter what your definition :c) LOL! First of all, from every indication I can see, her family is on my side. I tried talking to her mother, who writes me individually and has been begging for my patience since Ayesa got here. In her own words Ayesa can be stubborn and difficult. When I wrote her mother of the difficulties we are having--I am always optomistic and merely ask her mother for guidence in getting to know her daughter better--her mother wrote Ayesa a letter scolding her for not minding me and told her that her family would be shamed by a divorce. Her words were something like 'Divorce is not something we believe in. You must obey your husband becuase he such a good and loving man...' Now, I freaked out when I saw the 'D' word in the letter! But the more I thought about it, I realized that this is how her mother is. She has been petrified, that Ayesa will disappoint me and that I will 'get tired of her'. I am pretty good at knowing who my friends are and I would bet my life that her parents are on my side. Her whole family writes me! They don't ask for anything, they just make conversation and treat me like a son/brother that is away at college. If there is anything cooking in her head, her family has no clue. Her mother and father constantly refer to me as their oldest son, this has got to piss her little brother off! I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure her family is behind me. Her mother writes my mother and showers my mother with compliments on the job she did raising me. I know this smells like manipulation, but if you met her mother you wouldn't think so. There is an honesty in her mother that I cannot describe in words, but know is there. It is obvious that her mother likes me and I can't believe she could be a part of the plot. There are also little things that make me feel ashamed for doubting her. I put all of my pictures in a box. I am just not a big picture guy. Ayesa digs the ones of us together out and puts them in frames all over the house. If she hated me why would she do this? Also, when looking for something in our room, I found some picture albums with things written on them in Ayesa's handwriting. Actually I didn't know what they were until I opened them, She has literally a hundred pictures of us that I never even knew existed! She has pictures from her shower and our wedding--behind the scenes stuff--that I have never seen. Why would she have so many pictures of us together if she was planning on dumping me, now that she has her green card? One of the books is less than two weeks old, because I was with her when she bought it. I asked her what it was for when I saw it and she said 'Oh... it's just something for me... just girls stuff' Now it's right next to where she sleeps and it's filled with her and me. What can someone assume from that? I really don't think that Ayesa is cold to me out of indifference, I think she is embarrassed that she doesn't know how to act. I think it's my responsibily to figure out how to reach her, so that we can both be happy. I just don't know exactly how. Your opinions are welcomed and appreciated :c) H Title: Re: Thank you for your concern! Post by: Ray on April 01, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
Hey Howard! It’s nice to see you back. Sorry things aren’t working the way we would all hope for. From reading your posts, it looks like you were really ready for married life but perhaps Ayesa wasn’t quite as ready? I think you have a good handle on what needs to be done, but I wouldn’t let another week go by with the situation as it is now. You have to take control of this thing Now or it will only get worse, much worse. This marriage is worth fighting for, so it’s time to “go to the mattresses”. Your comment that you two don’t communicate is I think at the root of the whole thing. You can’t do much about cultural differences, your sex life, or anything unless you two Really start talking, about Everything. I think you got some great advice here, but probably the best advice I read was from Jeff S. I think that was a great idea to start by writing a letter. I know you can really express yourself well on paper, so write her a letter. She can read it over & over and absorb it without the pressure you get in verbal communications. Jeff’s other advice to seek the help of your priest or minister is an excellent idea (why didn’t I think of that? :-)). I don’t know who said that there aren’t any marriage counselors in the Phils, but Yes there tens of thousands of trained marriage counselors over there. They are readily available and don’t charge a dime. You’ll find them in most churches. I have found that most Filipinas have a very high respect for the clergy and they are very likely to readily heed their advice. You need some on-the-spot help, so I would definitely consider talking to your minister first. Hang in there Howard, and please keep us posted. Ray Title: Re: Re: Thank you for your concern! Post by: humabdos on April 01, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Thank you for your concern!, posted by Ray on Apr 1, 2001
I hope those marriage counselors in the PI are better trained than your average small town doctor! ;-) Title: Re: Re: Thank you for your concern! Post by: humabdos on April 01, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Thank you for your concern!, posted by Ray on Apr 1, 2001
"there are tens and thousands of trained marriage cuonselors in the philippines you will find them in most churchs" Its a funny thing ray I asked many many people in the philippines and they had never heard about it. Maybe they call them something else? but surely a priest could help. Have you seen one in the PI ray? Or is this just a guess? Try looking in the yellow pages next time you are there. I was married in the Pi and lived there for five months with her after we were married. It wasn't moure that three months when I realized we had some problemas and needed a counselor. I could not find one anywhere and belive me I looked. most filipinas once here will not go to a marriage counselor, (priest maybe) but marriage counselors no. I base this statement on talking with some of the members of our filipino american association with over 400 members in my home town. I know at least half of them on a first name basis. Just my .02 Humabdos PS my wife wouldn't go because she didn't want to save our marriage all she wanted was a green card and a rich boy friend which she already had. :-( Title: Hey Howard....tess Post by: Stephen on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
I felt sad after reading your post BUT don't give up I know you can work things out. About sex: I remember a friend who got married. After a week, me and some of our friends asked her about her first night. LOL. She said after a week nothing happens, and it reach to a month. Sounds weird. And we asked her why, she said she's afraid and nervous. Everytime her husband gets near her she freaks out. The last thing i've heard about her is that she has five kids already. Spend time with her. Stephen and I have no problem with these because we are always together. I work with him in his office. We go to parks, sit there and talk about little things and big things like having kids and having my parents come to visit us. We talk about what we're going to have for dinner. About TAMPO (silent treatment or sulking) I have mine too. I just tell stephen to just leave me alone and I will explain to him later what i'm mad about. And he knows how to dealt with it too. He just change the subject by bringing me to the mall....shopping. But he said, he can't take more than $200 worth of Tampo every month. By the way, we Filipinas get silent with tampo. American women scream and shout. Which do you men prefer? Just my opinion, Tess Brittain P.S. I think Ray is very busy right now because his wife is coming on April 2. Title: Re: Hey Howard....tess Post by: Howard on April 02, 2001, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Hey Howard....tess, posted by Stephen on Mar 31, 2001
Tess, Thanx for your insight, it really helps :c) And to answer your question, I prefer ANYTHING to silence :c) Tell Steven I said Hello :c) Keep the Faith! H Title: yup Post by: Lori on April 01, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Hey Howard....tess, posted by Stephen on Mar 31, 2001
Us american women scream and shout. Get right in your face and yell and yell, till the neighbors call the cops. But before they arrive, we try to get at least one good blow inand then whine to the cops that our spouses beat us. Yup, that's what we do, and we're good at it. Title: yup Post by: Lori on April 01, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Hey Howard....tess, posted by Stephen on Mar 31, 2001
Us american women scream and shout. Get right in your face and yell and yell, till the neighbors call the cops. But before they arrive, we try to get at least one good blow inand then whine to the cops that our spouses beat us. Yup, that's what we do, and we're good at it. Title: Very True! ;o) Post by: Dave H on April 01, 2001, 05:00:00 AM Title: I'll take tampo any day!! Post by: Jeff S on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Hey Howard....tess, posted by Stephen on Mar 31, 2001
Or as we say in our house "okote damaru" (It's a Japanese thing too) -- Jeff S. P.S. How do you like the book? Title: Me too! Post by: Dave H on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to I'll take tampo any day!!, posted by Jeff S on Mar 31, 2001
It is better than having all of your TV channel changers thrown and broken, holes kicked in your walls and doors, windows broken, chunks of your skin bitten out, knives stuck in your butt... Did I forget anything? Oh yes...hit in the head by UFOs, being called every name in the book in English and Spanish... Tempo is better than Temper tantrums any day! Dave H. Title: Yikes! Post by: Jeff S on April 01, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Me too!, posted by Dave H on Mar 31, 2001
That doesn't sound like fun. Skin bitten out? Knives stuck in your butt? ouch! As a buddy of mine, who's married to a Mexicana, says, Latinas love hard and hate hard. We asiana-philes have it easy, I guess. Title: SS Post by: Dave H on April 01, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Yikes!, posted by Jeff S on Apr 1, 2001
Hi Jeff, After 25 years of dating Latinas and 12 years of marriage, I finally decided that I wanted some peace in my life. I like to relax in my home, not run from it. ;o) I like the Asian calmness. I did date a Japanese woman when I was 23. You're a lucky man! Filipinas have some of the Spanish "Spice (SS)," but it seems to be mild or medium when compared to the "caliente" of most of the Latinas I have been involved with. Some of my relationships were like; "Get in, buckle up, and hold on.!" ;o) I like that feeling in a car or roller coaster, but not in a relationship. I will take tampo any day! Dave H. Title: Re: Thank you for your concern! Post by: greg on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
Hi! Howard, I think your wife really need counseling, maybe she got some kinda mental disorder or depression? greg Title: Some thoughts while rocking my baby to sleep... (Melly) Post by: SteveG on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
Hi Howard, This is Melly, Steveg's wife. I've read your story. I've been reading the post here lately. But can't post because my hands are always full taking care of the baby. Sorry to hear things are not going smooth lately with your marriage. AND, I admire you for not giving up yet! You sounds like you're terribly hurt again. I think there is a big chance for both of you to save this marriage. The way, you descbribed things, seems like Ayesa still cares about you a lot. And that is a good sign. Maybe she is not used to displaying her affection but deep down in her heart she loves you. Adjusting to a new surroundings & culture is not easy. In those early days, I want Steve to be around most of the time. I didn't have friends yet and he was the only one i got. And I was trying to learn & adjusting to almost everything here. And I need somebody i can be comfortable with. Hope there is something we can do to help things get better. It just sadden me to think after all the efforts, emotions, money & time spent still things are not going well. My heart goes out for both you. Hope things will get better soon. Melly
Title: Melly, your story sounds familiar Post by: Jimbo on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Some thoughts while rocking my baby to s..., posted by SteveG on Mar 31, 2001
It could be a description of what Sally and I went through when she first came here. You express yourself in English very nicely. Howard - Please see my personal story below, under Bear's "My Opinion" post. I only hope my experience can be of some help to you, in any way. Jim Title: Re: Some thoughts while rocking my baby to sleep... (Melly) Post by: Cecil on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Some thoughts while rocking my baby to s..., posted by SteveG on Mar 31, 2001
Hi Mr. H!! I too followed the wonderful story in the Howard Chronicles and I am sadden to hear that things are not going as you expected. I think that Melly is completely right in her advice. You said that you feel like strangers but when you think about it you are in fact strangers. Sometimes we delude ourselves into believing that letter writing and long phone conversations are a adequate substitute for being physically together. Before Ayesha came here, the two of you had only been together in person for maybe a week. You thought that the two of you knew each other from the letters which you wrote but in fact you were a stranger who she needed to spend lots of time with to be comfortable. Howard, some Americans believe in "quality time" which means spending less time with someone but making up for it by greater effort. The truth is that there is no substitute for YOUR love and attention. I think that women find it difficult to fully enjoy a sexual relationship with someone who doesn't spend time during the other 23 Hrs. to truly know them. My advice is to take some time off and become Ayesha number one best friend again. Well Howard, here is another single dude telling others about marriage. My prayers are with both of you. It is great to have you back! Cecil Title: how about children? Post by: cc on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
Howard, how about children? Have you talked with Ayesa about it? This would worry me the most: not being "physical" with my wife, even 6 months after marriage... There is something seriously wrong here, which I don't think can can be explained away by "cultural differences" especially if she was affectionate before (in the PIs.) - My heart goes out to you!!! Title: Re: how about children? Post by: Howard on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to how about children?, posted by cc on Mar 31, 2001
cc, We had already decided to wait at least until we were married two years to have children. If it happens earlier, fine, but we had hoped to be more stable in our life together before we start a family. H Title: Re: Thank you for your concern! Post by: nealtl on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
Why not try to be less mature do something at the spur of the moment silly and stupid like a teen ager would do,this will really surprise her tneal Title: Re: Thank you for your concern! Post by: jon on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
Howard, You're doing a great job talking about the problem to us. The photo stuff. Get interested or at least seem Remember how close Philippine families are. You need to Jon Title: Good thought Jon! Post by: Jimbo on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Thank you for your concern!, posted by jon on Mar 31, 2001
Filipinas love photos, that's a fact! Whenever I take Sally to a new city I tell her that we miss half of the sights because we spend so much time taking photos at the first sights we visit :o) When I look at her shots in Hongkong before I met her, I say "Where did you learn all those poses?" Filipinas are experts in poses and backgrounds. She's got more photos of me since we met in 1998 than I have of myself for the previous 44 years! LOL! Jim Title: I got a program.... Post by: Bear on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Thank you for your concern!, posted by jon on Mar 31, 2001
called Panorama that alternates your background picture. Then I took all our pictures that I have scanned and put them in a file. Then had that program rotate them every 5 minutes. Bear Title: Re: Re: Thank you for your concern! Post by: Carl on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Thank you for your concern!, posted by jon on Mar 31, 2001
Howard I agree with Jon, I have pictures of my wife everywhere. on my computer as well. some of both of us together. I am a camera buff. If there was no other sign, the many pictures showing her would let her know just how much I love her. Our album is full!! One thing that has really counted with her is the way I show my love for her. It has impressed her Filipina friends also. You do not have to show weakness to show love. The way Ayesa is keeping the pictures, shows she has some deep feelings for you. I hope what ever is troubling her is only a temporary thing. I believe it is from what you are saying. God be with you and Ayesa. Title: True... Post by: Dave H on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Thank you for your concern!, posted by Carl on Mar 31, 2001
Howard, Ayesa keeping pictures of you is good. Pictures of you and her together are very good also. No pictures is bad. Simple...but very true. I knew that there was a problem when my wife (ex) stopped wearing her wedding ring and took the pictures of me out of her wallet. Everyone else's pictures were still there. She made up some kind of story which I halfheartedly bought. Months later, I saw the picture of her new "friend" in her wallet. I realized then that it was a bigger problem than I had thought. ;o) Dave H. Title: Pictures... Post by: Dave H on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Thank you for your concern!, posted by jon on Mar 31, 2001
Jon, You are right! I am not good with the photo albums or putting out pictures either. Even with my own kids. It doesn't mean that I don't love them. My ex wife hardly has anything to do with our kids, yet has pictures all over the house. I have made a special effort to buy picture frames and place pictures around the house. I see that my kids appreciate it. I have displayed pictures of my fiancee too. I am having my sister-in-law make a photo album. She made an artistic album of my family to take to my fiancee on my trip. My fiancee, her friends and family loved the album. I had pictures of my late parents, family, my baby pictures, kids, house, car, town, etc. It showed her what my life in America was all about. One of the first things I am going to do when she arrives is get a family picture together. I am also going to take a picture with her and I alone. Then I am going to frame them and place them where everyone can see inside my house. I am going to put the rest of my boxed photos into albums, with her help. I have a craft store near my house that has many artistic ideas to make photo albums. Dave H. Title: Re: Pictures... Post by: Windmill Boy on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Pictures..., posted by Dave H on Mar 31, 2001
Diamond Dave H (in the rough, rather than in the buff or that purple G string thing ha ha ha) One of my best computer investments has been an $ 80 page scanner. While I was unemployed this past summer in NY I took the opportunity to scan any photo's in moom's house that I could find in the various locations where they were tucked away. I asked my mother many questions and wrote down most of the answers along with the pictures while she is still alive to tell me about them. All in all I scanned around 1000 photos of my life and my nuclear family and burned them to discs. The scanner also has a great program installed for labeling and even fixing color balances from those 1960-1970 photos that have blemished somewhat. I did it for Security if a fire should ever ravenge moms house. I could also spread the wealth of photo's with my brother and sister in law in michigan if they ever want to access it. Actually the copy they have is more just for safekeeping along with my pastry recipes. I am using the scanner now a days to scan my expensive and heavy pastry books and burn them to disk. I am working on the 18 th one now. If I get that dream position in Asia I would rather bring 2 or 3 discs than lug 500 lbs of books with me. I am to the point that I am scared to buy new books with my moving history and I wish they were released in CD form. But I am ahead of my time. I had this book transfer idea 8-9 years ago already at least i am able to do it myself now. An upstart market niche business for someone burning books to CD's maybe but not for me. Just a suggestion. That Windmill Boy Title: You can burn a disk... Post by: Dave H on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Pictures..., posted by Windmill Boy on Mar 31, 2001
...but just don't burn the pastry. Hi Windmill Boy, Long time... ROFLMPG-stringO! That is a good idea about scanning books and pictures and burning them onto CDs. I am a bookworm. I had better start today so I can finish before I die. LOL Seriously...it would be great to see more books on CD. I saw one cookbook on CD the other day. I am going to start burning a disk of my favorite recipes. I picked a fine time to start a diet. ;o) I also have many scanned photos that I will be putting on disks and will make copies for my brother. I will come visit when you get that dream position in Asia. ;o) Dave H. Title: Re: Pictures...& photo albums..tess Post by: Stephen on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Pictures..., posted by Dave H on Mar 31, 2001
Stephen took lots of pictures when he went to the Philippines. He took pictures of my niece and nephews, my parents, friends, the streets, buildings, airports and everything. When I got here, it took me a week to put all of them in the albums. Now, when I look at those albums I feel as if i'm not away from home. Tess Title: Re: Re: Pictures...& photo albums..tess Post by: Pete on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Pictures...& photo albums..tess, posted by Stephen on Mar 31, 2001
It's a good thing...I took pictures both times I was over there as well as digital video of me and my fiancee with her cousins and friends....lots of silly moments to reminisce on. I suggested to her that she take pictures of all the things she's familiar with before she comes here....even pictures of her front gate or family room...anything to help with the homesickness. Title: cultural diffrances Post by: Lori on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
In searching for a spouse from a differant country, I believe that we do not know the true extent of our cultural differances, untill we actually bring them here and start our lives together. I believe for the most part, the Asian cultures as a whole, do not tend to be openly affectionate towards the ones they love. As Americans, I think we tend to over use those three little words, "I love you" to the point that they no longer special anyomore. The song "More Than Words", by extreme, comes to my mind. Thai has already informed me, that to be openly affectionate in Vietnam(kissing , holding, etc..) would be disrespectful to his culture and his family. So , I do not expect him to openly show me that he loves me. I'll just know in our hearts that there is love. But I am thinking there are more to his words than he says. His culture , as a whole, are not affectionate. They show their love in other ways. Such as preforming simple tasks, or, as in your case, saving all those pictures. I am not saying that I do not expect Thai to conform somewhat to my culture. I just expect myself to give him lots of time and space, and understanding. If I want this to work, I believe that is one sacrifice I must make. and eventually, (hopefully) there will be a balance between our cultures. And then we will know what to expect from eachother. Give and Take, as they say. But at first, I truely believe that it should be me "giving" for the most part. He has made the ultimate sacrifice to be with me. He has given up his way of life. Left his family, and friends behind to start a new way of life here with me. And I'll be the most patient, I am sure, that I have ever been in my life, if I want this to work, and last forever. Now I am rambling again... __Lori Title: It seems to me... Post by: DrDoogie on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Thank you for your concern!, posted by Howard on Mar 31, 2001
That you and your wife have somewhat different personality types, that _perhaps_ she's an introvert and you're an extrovert. So I'm thinking it might help you to have a look at Title: Interesting!!!.......................nt Post by: Bear on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM Title: Welcome Dr. Doogie! Post by: Dave H on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to It seems to me..., posted by DrDoogie on Mar 31, 2001
Dr. Doogie, Welcome to Planet Love. I hope to learn more about your views, be they pragmatic or not. Dave H. Title: Thanks mate! N/T Post by: DrDoogie on March 31, 2001, 05:00:00 AM |