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This is a followup to the "take charge man" post below, and thanks
everyone, very much for the response posts.

Many of the responses seemed to follow the line of logic that,
if the man or woman wants sex and the other does not, then the one
who does not should give in, Hmmm, Since the man usually wants it
more often than the woman, me being a man, I would not necessecarily
disagree, .....Honey, get ready, here i come,,,,,but in reality,
having been in that situation, I am not sure the results would be worth the effort unless the unwilling partner is a good actress/actor.
I usually like to think my partner is at least somewhat interested,
otherwise why bother, but thats a side issue here.

The main thing i wanted to discuss now is the replys to my post seem
to follow the line of reasoning that the man is the household, according to filipinas should be "in charge" when it comes to major
household decisions  that benefit both parties, in other words,
his word is the final word in mutually beneficial decisions, Sounds
good on paper, But, the question I have  is, What happens when his
definition of mutually beneficial, is not shared by his wife,
   For example the wife wants to have filipina friends, the man
thinks that is a bad idea, since they might poison her mind with
americanized ideas, or "oprah" type thinking, This is certainly a major major household topic, which could seriously affect the wifes
self esteem and happiness. The question is, the man here thinks it
is a good thing for the wife to not have pinay friends, and he thinks
it is best for the household harmony, and according to the pinays
on the board, his word is final on major household decisions like this. In this case, lets assume the wife is adamantly opposed to that
decision,

Personally I dont agree with the man, and here, his wife does not either,  But in his mind, it is for the benefit of his household harmony. Whether he is correct or not, is not the issue,
The question is, Should the wife agree and accept his decision and
"obey " him, If she does, what harm will this cause to the marriage
potentially.  What other household decisions will he impose selfishly
on her if she does agree, and how does this situation conflict with
the whole "take charge man".

The point i am trying to make, is that, what is to the benefit of
the household is not necessarily such a clear thing to see, and
his opinion and hers will not always match, and if he is selfish
or controlling person, he will try to make her think that its not
him but HER, who is selfish by not seeing things his way,

The whole issue of "take charge man" to me is more complicated than
some of us want to admit.

... in response to "for the good of the family", posted by outwest on Mar 31, 2001

.. have you been married to an asian? or an AW?

In our household, my wife constantly assures me I'm the boss, but I wouldn't think of imposing on her turf (the house and family issues) because I trust her to make the right choices. When we disagree, she usually conceeds if I'm adamant (like when re remodeled and I told her absolutely I wasn't going to sleep in a pink bedroom - we compromised on a neutral tan-ish color) but I know I can override her opinion whenever I want - but why would I want to?

I've seen couples with the man being a controlling a_hole and it simply doesn't look like much fun for either party to me. (and vice-versa in some AW/AM situations) I think those marriages are headed for the dumpster. If they do stay together the controlee has to just toss away their spine and live in constant fear.

Like Bear and his wife, my wife and I discuss everything (except some of my career issues, though she's eager to discuss them if I bring them to her) and arrive at a mutually agreeable solution. When she concedes to me - I make the decisions unilaterally, and likewise when I concede to her, she makes up her own mind.

I do find it easier, as people below have said in response to some of Howard's dilemas, to come out with what I think is the best answer, like, "Honey, I've thought this over and I think we should do this: yada yada yada. Do you have any problems with that?" It's an extremely rare event when she's said, "yes I do have a problem with that."

Two people trying to really live as a team have to compromise - sometimes it feels like both are giving more than 50% but every team needs a quarterback calling the plays IMHO

-- Jeff S.

... in response to Out of curiosity..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 31, 2001

N/T

... in response to Out of curiosity..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 31, 2001

nt

... in response to "for the good of the family", posted by outwest on Mar 31, 2001

I am sure you are correct here - the solution to Howard&Ayesa's problem is most certainly not as easy as "taking charge". Howver taking charge may force the issue one way or the other...

I find it very sobering to read both shadows and Howards stories and I wonder how many more there are, we never hear about. It's not very easy to come into the open and admit relationship failure. I am very grateful to both Howard and Shadow and it puts my own search for a lifemate into perspective ;-(

... in response to Re: "for the good of the family&quo..., posted by cc on Mar 31, 2001

I agree.... Taking charge will force the issue and will bring it all into the light where it will thrive or die...good or bad. Good advice CC. Better to find out sooner than later.