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I need a bit of advice.  I met this young lady, Lucidel, in Japan 7 months ago.  She's one of the sweetest, most unpretencious and gorgeous women I've met in a long time.  Have kept in touch regularly via email, text messaging and occaisional phone call. Was planning multiple long visits while I'm in SE Asia this fall and winter on business. She's never asked for any help and never tells me about her problems.  However, I have periodically sent her $100 every month or two.  (I've been all over the world, PI many times, and fully understand the economic and cultural situation).  I've had trouble getting in touch with her recently.

I received this email today.  It is so out of character and discusses such an extreme situation I'm not sure I know what to think. I'm also aware that Luci did have a friend in Manila named Grace.

I have replied asking for Graces phone number as well as the hospital and Dr's name and number.  I have no idea what kind of $$$ are involved,  and really don't have deep pockets.  So I'm a bit mystified.

-----
dear Scott,
first of all, a pleasant day to you!

Scott ds is lucidel's friend. i wrote you to inform that lucidel is in critical condition right now. she had an accident last july 22, 2004. and she's in commatous. i know you won't believe me coz u don't know me. amd maybe you will think that im one of the opportunists.. But please...please....please.. believe me coz im telling the truth.. she's my friend and i dont want to lose her..and im sure you too..we got ur address from your letter for her..you said that you will help her when she needs help but how she cant contact you if she's in commatous,ryt?..so me and her other friends as well as her family are praying for her life..we're very much worried about her condition..the chance for her survival is 50-50. She really needs your help now especially in financial aspects. her family doesn't know where to get the very big amount of money for her medicine and operation. if you won't believe me we are willing to send you a picture of her condition just to prove that im telling the truth and im not kidding....

we tried to call you in your celphone but we don't know what is the area code in your country..writing you an email is only the best way to contact you..We hope that it will work.. Please....please help lucidel...she badly needs you at this point of time..

All we can do is to pray for her survival... she's a very nice person..she doesn't deserves this..

please reply as soon as you read this message.....and tell us what we will do to prove that our intention is good....as i've said we will send you a picture.. And please pray for her also....


thank you so much....may GOD BLESS YOU!!!


yours truly,
grace

-------

Your ideas and thoughts appreciated.

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

The young lady, Luci, has been in the Cagayan de Oro Medical Center ICU since July 23.  I have spoken directly to the ICU nursing staff at the hospital.  She was admitted with a broken femur and multiple closed head injuries consisting of:  multiple subdural hematomas, skull fracture of the right temporal region, is in a stupor (a stage just before coma) and is exhibiting decorticate posturing (look it up) which indicates damage to the cortical-spinal tract where the brain and spinal cord come togather.  There has been improvement, she is opening her eyes and responding to touch.  The nursing staff doesn't know if she will survive or get better.  It's a very critical situation.  Medication costs are running 10,000p per day.  I hope to talk the the neurologist within the next couple of days and find out what the short and long-term out look is, if any.

Although I have no commitment or romantic involvement with Luci, we became good friends and I was interested in furthering the relasionship.  I am going to help financially, it's the RIGHT thing to do, but my funds are limited.  Good thing I'm working overtime this month and next.

I will send the money to the mother as the medication gets a 30% markup if purchased thru the Med Center.

... in response to The latest... it's no scam, posted by Scott on Jul 29, 2004

Sorry to hear this lady is in really bad shape. Your right-she is in God's hands now.I'm not sure a donation now towards medical expenses would change much. Perhaps if the worst comes to pass you might help a little to make her funeral a little nicer and dignified.

You're right about another thing, Scott. Bad things do happen to good people everyday.Not everybody is a scammer.

... in response to The latest... it's no scam, posted by Scott on Jul 29, 2004

Hi Scott,

I’m sorry to hear about the young lady’s condition and I respect your decision to help out financially. I pray that she will be able to recover fully.

One concern I have is that I believe you mentioned a couple of times that you were interested in furthering the relationship with her. To be fair to both of you, I would not attempt to pursue a romantic relationship after you have assisted her financially, if that was what you meant. This could very well put her in a position where she would feel obligated to you because of your help. That is not a good basis for a relationship IMHO. Anyway, I am sure that is not your primary motive now and you will have time to worry about that later assuming that with God’s help she recovers.

As I stated before, I would highly recommend that you make any payments DIRECTLY to the hospital or doctor, NOT to any friends or family members. And if there is any way that you can do it entirely anonymously, that will be even better for everyone in the long run, especially if you two ever do decide to become romantically involved at a later date.

Ray

... in response to Re: The latest... it's no scam, posted by Ray on Jul 29, 2004

Ray, it's also been pointed out that helping in any way opens me to expected continued support (cultural).  And if I refuse, a guilt trip is laid down, "don't you care about her?  Then why won't you continue to help."  And if I help once, it will be expected to continue.  I may also be giving false hope to the family.  The few days of medication I provide will be insignificant in the long term, but indicated and interest I won't be able to persue.  And I can't and am not obligated to help with long term care.

I've spoken to a couple of ICU nurses here at home, including my ex, and have been unanimously told that with the decorticate posturing her survival not likely and if she does survive, the brain damage will leave her is some vegetative state.

So I am seriously giving thought and reconsidering the financial help.

Bad things happen to good people all over the world every day.  She's in Gods hans now.

... in response to Re: Re: The latest... it's no scam, posted by Scott on Jul 29, 2004

Automobile accident in Cagayan de Oro, Mindanao.  I don't know the details.

... in response to Re: Re: The latest... it's no scam, posted by Scott on Jul 29, 2004

SCOTT:

Bad things happen to good people all over the world every day. She's in Gods hans now.

STEPHEN:

And you're not God.  You're a very limited human being.  You can't solve all her problems by the snap of your fingers.

Do what you feel is best.  I respect your decision.  God bless.

... in response to Re: Re: The latest... it's no scam, posted by Scott on Jul 29, 2004

I'm also sorry to hear of her condition. Like Don, I'm also curious how she ended up that way - accident or? I'm sure we've all heard of the japayuki problems.

Help only if YOU think it's the right thing to do, not because of pressure from her friends or family, and don't consider it some long term cultural obligation. A gift is a gift, nothing more, and should have no strings attached IMO.

- Jeff

... in response to Re: Re: The latest... it's no scam, posted by Scott on Jul 29, 2004

[This message has been edited by don2222]

Hi Scott,
 Sorry to hear that she has been injured so severely.
What happened to her ???  How did she get this way ?
Under these circumstances, it seems really difficult to know the right thing to do.  Maybe you should just do what feels best for you.

Take care, Don

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

Sounds like you've effectively told this woman that you're not good enough for her so you have to send her $100 a month.  Otherwise, you think she won't continue corresponding with you.  I think she can smell the emotional insecurity from an ocean away.

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

Sounds like you've effectively told this woman that you're not good enough for her so you have to send her $100 a month.  Otherwise, you think she won't continue corresponding with you.  I think she can smell the emotional insecurity from an ocean away.

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

It has been independently confirmed by NOX1967's fiance that this young lady, Luci, was admitted to Cagayan de Oro Medical Center.  I have a phone number and I have also emailed the friend for specific medical information.
Thanks for everyone's input. It has been appreciated.  Will post when I know more.

... in response to appears to be legit, posted by Scott on Jul 26, 2004

I live in Dumaguete, just a boat ride away from CDO. If I can be of assistance, just let me know. I can go there, check on the situation from a foriegners veiw, talk to the doctors, and make payment arrangements directly to the hospital if that is your wish.

Be careful, this has a fishy smell.

Larry.

... in response to appears to be legit, posted by Scott on Jul 26, 2004

Have you tried calling the hospital yourself ??
Now that you know where she is, you can make arrangements to pay the hospital directly, if that is what you want to do.

Don

... in response to appears to be legit, posted by Scott on Jul 26, 2004

What exactly does that mean?? I have no idea why you wouldsend someone $100 per month to correspond with you but unless you went there yourself and saw her or hired a private investuigator, I'm not sure how you can be positive.

... in response to appears to be legit, posted by Scott on Jul 26, 2004

dont send money until she is officially your girlfriend!! i've seen so many guys get burned this way. dont be stupid man!

... in response to appears to be legit, posted by Scott on Jul 26, 2004

Scott

I am glad to hear that you have a little more clarity on the situation now.  If you do have serious feelings for Luci  I am sure that these last 3 - 4 days  have been very tough on you. Now it is soul searching time for you to figure out where you want to go from here.  General rule of thumb  FOLLOW YOUR HEART and GUT INSTINCT.  This seems to usually be the right choice. Don't 2nd  3rd and 4th guess your decision or it will drive you crazy.

GOOD LUCK

Windy

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

hi scott!

this is totally a SCAM!!! why didn't grace tell you firsthand the hospital and its telephone number where luci is in?!?!?! what kind of accident?  you don't have to ask them this information if this was really urgent and true. if she worked in japan - then she should have the money! what was her work in japan? you would know the answer then.

or why don't you call grace's cellphone and talk to luci's parents? but the parents must also be in the fix. there are many loose ends --- things do not fit!

be careful, my friend!

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

run Timmy run!
Hum

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

Scott,

I know that it can be hard to part from someone that you feel like you have a connection with and spent time with.  In my opinion I think it is a scam.  There are alot of beautiful ladies over there that will not ask you for a dime.  

Keith

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

Well, Scott, I’m not really sure what advice you are looking for. Should you help this lady financially? That’s really up to you since I think you have absolutely no moral obligation to do so.

Do you want our opinions on whether this is a scam? From what you have posted so far, I would guess that the odds are about 90% that this is nothing more than an outright scam. These type scams almost always involve someone in the hospital in dire need of money to pay for their care.

IF you do decide to help out, don’t make any promises and just remember that you should NEVER send money to a stranger. You were exactly right to ask for the name of the hospital and her doctor. If you get a reply with the info you requested, then you should independently verify the phone number of the doctor and hospital. Speak directly with the doctor and ONLY send money directly to the hospital. Request any itemized bills along with a copy of her medical file be sent to you by FAX and DO NOT use her “friend” as a go-between. I would advise that you wait a while before doing anything and definitely verify all information. If you do want to pay the hospital bills, do it anonymously and keep it that way!

The medical system over there can be pretty cold when it comes to paying in advance for expensive care. They may require advance payment for major surgery, but then again they may just require payment in full before she is discharged.

Personally, I would probably lean toward a reply with an offer to pray for her, but say that I was not able to help financially.

Ray

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

First, she must have returned to the Philippines for this to be true. Else how would her "friends" get ahold of her mail? And if she had, it would be her relatives, not her "friends" contacting you, especially "friends" still in Japan. If she is still in Japan, working for a Japanese family, her "friends" would not have access to her mail and things. Her employer is responsible for her. Believe me, ask any OCW, Japanese employers do not allow or encourage their "maids" to have their OCW friends over to visit at the employer's home.

See the trouble and contradictions?

As for someone else having her cell, perhaps they stole it. If you had called her at that number and she answered before, and now someone says they have had the phone and number for a long time and do not know her, it is probably stolen and you were speaking to the thieves or she sold it. Perhaps even her employer, after sending her back home or else she left for vacation back home, are trying to scam you.

Either way, this sounds very wrong.

You can always contact her "friends" and ask the name of the hospital and call yourself (get the number yourself, too). Or, if she is back in the Phils, contact her family if you know their addy or phone number, if any.

But it is most likely BS.

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

Scott, i have to agree with the comments below. this is fishy. forget any photos and dump her. also, don't give money to any woman until they are your girlfriend - and a girlfriend is someone who gets intimate with you. good luck

... in response to Re: Need a bit of advice, posted by papi on Jul 25, 2004

Yea don't pay till she gives up the pun tang! Thats what the good old boys from AC say! (sic)
Hum

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

[This message has been edited by Scott]

She's from Iligan, Mindanao, currently in Manila.  I spent about 6 weeks going out with her occaisionally then frequently in Okinawa.  Nothing sexual, but some affectionate times. Good friends and I am quite fond of her, enough to possiblysomehow persue the relationship further to see where it might lead, but currently no commitments.  Don't really know as much as I'd like to, and getting information has been a challenge (possibe red flag).  I have not been supporting her.  A problem I've always had is that I can be overly trusting until given a good reason not to, then I try to explain the problem away.  Chivalrous... yes.  But I know I can't save the world, seen too much of it (62 countries) and missery most can't imagine or comprehend.

I'm not sure how the PI medical system works... I know there's no social support system like we have, so if a patient can't afford the required medical care is the care denied or are the costs absorbed by the system?

One red flag has occured... I talked to her on her cell phone June 29.  A week ago someone else answered her number, didn't know who Luci was and claimed they had the phone and number a long time.

Too many open ended questions at the moment.

... in response to A bit more info, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

You say you have not been supporting her...but earlier you posted that you  "periodically send her a 100 a month or two"

Sorry..but I would call that support...

... in response to A bit more info, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

Scott,
     My fiance lives in Iligan, and she works in a hospital. If we could help you verify any information please feel free to e-mail me, NOX1967@hotmail.com

If you can get the name of a hospital, even if it isn't in Iligan, I'm sure she or one of her co-workers could make a call and inquire, from one hospital to another and get some information.

Ron

... in response to Re: Iligan, posted by NOX1967 on Jul 25, 2004

NOX, I will take you up on your offer.  Check your personal email.  Thanks

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

Scott

Heres my take on this....

first the questions -- more information is needed from you for clarification.

1.) I am assuming Lucidel is pinay  since it is not a Japanese name?

2.) is she still in Japan?  is she working there or was she vacationing there also when you met her?

3.) if she is working there, is she legal?  --  Based on my trip there last year it was my impression that Japanese are protectionistic - - most pinays as well as westerners stand out from the crowd.  If she is legally working In japan  wouldn't she be requred to pay into the national health care system  and she would be treated?

4.) are you just the chivalrous white knight type ready and able to help anyone out  or  do you have  very strong feelings towards her (serious relationship -- marriage)  and she the same  towards  you?  HOW SERIOUS ABOUT HER  ARE YOU?

Now some thoughts?

1.)   From what you have written  it sounds like you have a very solid friendship  with her.  you  have  met in person so you have judged her charector to be worthy of continuing contact with her.  In your  correspondence and calls with her  she has not raised any other reasons to be suspicious prior to now.  As you've mentioned  she has told you about her Friend Grace  previously.  To me this seems reasonably honest and realistic - Accidents do happen.   Trust your gut and instincts - only you know her charector.

2.) Whether  she is in Japan or back in the Philippines I would assume that the medical duty of a doctor is still the same -- Preserve life.  I would think that no matter  what they will do their best to save her life irreguardless of medical bills payment. So if you are religious  I  think right now the best thing you can do is pray for her condition.  

I would consider sending the money to her once she is no longer comotose and is able to communicate  with you.  I have a hard time  believing they would turn off the machines prior to her  regaining consiousness due to a lack of funds.  Sending the money to her prior to her regaining consiousness  will not do anything to help her revive.

I think you have taken the right course of action so far  seeking the information you've requested.  I  really do not see the situation as being one of a scam. but waiting until she is able to communicate with you will be prudent.  As I mentioned before  as long as she is comotose and incoherant the benefits your financial assistance will provide is useless to you.  If this situation is real and God blesses you / her with a recovery  then you can address the medical  expenses.  you  also  will have to  address how serious  you are  about her.

Being religious  myself I think  your priorities belong somewhere else right now than worrying about money  if this situation is real and you truely care for her very serously.  The truth either way will come out  whether it is a scam or the truth about the accident when you speak to her and have  documentation of this accident.

I hope this advice helps

Windy

... in response to long response, posted by Windmill Boy on Jul 25, 2004

In the PI no money no treatment. People die everyday there because they can't afford even the simplest meds or treatment.
hum

... in response to long response, posted by Windmill Boy on Jul 25, 2004

How is the visa coming along?

I saw that the White House Pastry Chef is retiring. This is the big break you've been waiting for. Get that resume in now! :-)

Ray

... in response to Hey Windy, posted by Ray on Jul 25, 2004

I know you were kidding, but maybe someone would be interested in what it takes to work there.

To work in the White House you must have a minimum of "Yankee White" security clearance.

To even be eligible for Yankee White you must have been a naturalized citizen for I think 20 years, pass a full field background  investigation, and your wife has to pass as well. With a wife not a US citizen yet, good luck. What they really want is a minimum of a second-generation, native born citizen. In fact, when I worked there, the only foreign-born person that "worked" in the White House was Henry Kissinger. Even the "French" sous-chef was 3rd generation French-American. When they say full field investigation, they ain't kidding. I was fingerprinted dozens of times all told. They sent people out to interview my family, people in my hometown, and my friends, to include as many of my high school classmates as they could find. They even interviewed one who was in prison. They interviewed my former commanders and first sergeants. Police checks from everywhere I had lived since birth. Even if you had a "sealed" or "expunged" juvenile record (I did not), they can get it. You have to pass a psych interview and test, and take multiple-choice personality tests.

If accepted, you have to take a lot of classes; White House ettiquette, especially when dealing with foreigners, White House manners, special procedures, and a ton of classes on emergency contingencies. You are especially taught not to screw with the Marine guards or Secret Service people or to ever give them a ration of crap, as they can and will shoot you. Also, never, ever to step close to the president, VP or first family without permission, and never, ever, EVER-EVER-EVER! get between the President and Football, or the VP and his Football.

Fire emergencies, nuclear war emergencies, White House coming under attack emergencies, attempted assassination of the President, VP, Cabinet member or a foreign leader protocols. Protests that turn into riots contingencies, etc. You spend the first month and a half in classes 8 hours a day, and you really have to study and pass the bloody hard tests, too.

... in response to Re: Hey Windy, posted by senior citizen on Jul 26, 2004

Hey Senior just wonderin, did you know of any Navy Crypto Techs that worked there?

... in response to Re: Re: Hey Windy, posted by Rota20 on Jul 27, 2004

Oye Rota! Are you a Navy crypto type?  I was at NSGA Athens in the 80's.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Hey Windy, posted by surfscum on Jul 30, 2004

Wow that's cool!  I was at NSGA Rota, Spain a couple of years ago and now I'm in Misawa.

... in response to Re: Re: Hey Windy, posted by Rota20 on Jul 27, 2004

Used to, but that was a long time ago. As I said, during Kissinger's days. I can't give names or anything, though. You have to sign a paper that says you understand you are not to speak of confidential matters for 80 years after you finish your tour of duty.

So I can't talk about things until I am 111.

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

Sound Fishy, Don't send a Dime. There are countless  Stunners, ConArtists out there preying on Desperated Fruitcakes.

... in response to Need a bit of advice, posted by Scott on Jul 25, 2004

You shouldn't have sent her money in the first place.  

You're not responsible for supporting or assisting this woman.  She has family, friends, and her country to do that.  Being that you sent her money, you advertised to her and everyone she knows that you're foolish enough to part with your American dollars freely and without effort to solicit.  So now, you're opened yourself up to Guilt Extortion.

In other words, you played yourself, and now they'll play you.

But hey, maybe you don't mind being the village idiot.  So, if you're set on sending money, get the details first, including what happened to her, where's she's hospitalized, and what the prognosis is.

And remember...

***A Fool And His Money Are Easily Parted***

... in response to you messed up already, posted by Troy on Jul 25, 2004

DUMP HER. Dump the Golddigger.