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My one-and-only prospect wants me to come meet her for the first time before next calendar year (and so do I) but she has no more vacation coming until then. She is sanguine about taking time off with no pay ("will manage") but I know her family depends heavily on her income. I know she looks at it as a good long-term investment (among other things- please start another thread, oh paranoid ones).

I am not going to offer her money (unless or until, maybe, we are engaged).

She has told me that food is very expensive (anybody know numbers?) and two of her brothers are supposedly primo cooks, so maybe I could load the place up on the pretense of letting them impress me with their cuisine.

Or give gifts with remarket value.

Or fix a cock fight.

Or lose some cash under the sofa.

I'm thrashing around here- someone else must have dealt with this touchy saving face vs. paying the bills issue.

... in response to How the heck to handle this?, posted by HaroldC on Aug 9, 2003

Harold,

When I visited my fiancee earlier this year, she took 3 weeks off work to spend the time with me :D  We stayed mostly at her Lolo's Farm and I insitsed on "Helping" with the grocery bills ;)  I already knew how much she made in salary and set that aside until the end of the trip.  It was like pulling teeth to get her to take it, but she finally did when it became obvious to her that I wasn't taking "No" for an answer :)  Personally, it made me feel a WHOLE lot better. She would have never told me if she was having money trouble, but who can really stand to miss almost a month's wages?

Keep the Faith

H

... in response to Similar Situation..., posted by Howard on Aug 13, 2003

Who can stand to miss wages?- Filipinas can, from what I am told. :)

To me, the important distinction is the "fiance'" part, although Mita didn't think that made much difference. IF we are engaged I'll be on much firmer ground- in my own mind, at least.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if your girl still has that cash put back! :)

Maybe I can tell Imelda that it would make Howard feel better ... Nah, never mind.

Thanks guy.

And, man, am I learning about faith. :)

... in response to How the heck to handle this?, posted by HaroldC on Aug 9, 2003

I think you should go when she will have enough time for you.  It's only a few months wait.  That will solve a lot of your problems.  If you can't wait, a good time to go would be Halloween, Nov. 1 is a big holiday in the Philippines and most offices are going to give extra time-off to their employees.  Christmas Eve thru the New Year is also loaded with holidays like December 30 which is Rizal Day.

Don't offer money unless she's in a bind.  She sounds like me when I met my husband. Be generous with your gifts if you really want to help out. Filipinos are easy and not sensitive about gifts. And when you are there, insist on paying for the bills.  Even I expected that from my now husband. You could also have enough pesos left over at the end of your trip and give it to her since "you won't need pesos in the US" that should be a plausible excuse.

... in response to Re: How the heck to handle this?, posted by Mita on Aug 10, 2003

Could you please tell her for me, Mita, that 'It's only a few months wait.'?- just kidding.

And, yeah, early November I think it is, although I don't think she gets more time off- I will ask, though, holidays have not been mentioned- thanks.! I am going to avoid Christmas time because of the travel madness.

My whole dilemma is not wanting to offer money- and I think 'bind' is the normal state of affairs. Ray, apparently, didn't think much of the gifts idea- but what does he know?:)- thanks again.

When you say 'pay for the bills', I assume you mean courting expenses, not the household bills- I fully intend to do that. And I will make sure there are plenty of 'extra' pesos left over when I leave.

Tell me please, Mita, if your perspective about accepting financial help changed once you were officially engaged.

Bless you, ma'am, for coming to the aid of this befuddled Kano.

... in response to I am grateful for the Filipina perspecti..., posted by HaroldC on Aug 10, 2003

Harold,
Yes, I do mean bills for the trip - Cab fare and all other incidentals.  Ask her, even before your trip, if there are expenses that are related to the trip and insist you pay for it.  My husband did that and I didn't mind.  He was on his vacation after all, why should I pay for it??  LOL!
If she has to put in her 8 hours of work, you can always go and see her for lunch and pick her up after if she doesn't mind that.  You will both get ribbed a lot, it's a very Pinoy thing to tease someone about the courting stage and "love".  We did that, and  yes,his first visit was also timed for the All Soul's Day holidays.  We actually first met face to face on Halloween ;o)  And like your fiancee, I also have a niece who is very close to me.  My husband had to woo her too.  They got along so well they are still chat buddies.  She's about 9.
As for your question, hubby offered his help once when my mother got very sick just before I left for the US.  But for as long as I could hold out, I didn't accept any money from him...it was a pride thing more than anything.  The fact that he offered and was willing to take on some of my burdens was enough - juggling money around was nothing new, but having someone share my burdens certainly was.
You see, that's another Pinoy thing to "make do" so don't worry about her - she's used to it.  "Kung maikli ang kumot, matutong kumukot" we say which means: when the blanket is short, learn to bend your body.  Most Filipinas are like this...but not all.  
After paying all my bills, my savings almost ran out just before he came to pick me up to take back to the US. I was very careful with expenses at that time cause I already resigned from my job and had no income.  I'm sure she'll do the same when her time comes.
The only money I got from him before we were married was related to the visa expenses. Oh and a $100 bet we made which he lost.  He paid up on his next visit and never made a bet with me after that.  

You are 52, she's 35 you say?  17 year difference for you, hubby and I have 18 years between us.  But I swear most times I am the more mature!
 
Enjoy your trip,
Mita

... in response to Re: I am grateful for the Filipina persp..., posted by Mita on Aug 10, 2003

How could you be more mature that a sophisticated western man 18 years your senior? Impossible! (Unless he's like Ray and Dave H.- horsing around with an imaginary severed finger while others in class are dealing with the day's lesson.) :)

And a gambling woman, too. Tsk, tsk. :)

Seriously, thank you very very much, you make me feel much better.

I guess I'd better get used to Pinay ways- but don't I get to control anything!? Oh, well, the good old days. At least that ability to juggle (or squeeze as my lady says) almost nothing and make it do should come in handy.

Thank you again, Mita. You have surpassed Ray as my favorite P-L'er. :)

... in response to You must be mistaken, Ma'am ..., posted by HaroldC on Aug 10, 2003

Harold,
I say I'm more mature than my husband because I can walk into a car dealer and walk away without buying a car that I was ONLY thinking of getting.  
hehehe...I'm lucky in gambling but never got the habit -thank goodness.
You will control much when married to a Filipina, don't you worry.  It's only the household that the woman expects to take care of.  You bring home the bacon and still make most of the decisions, as Jeff pointed out.  But listen to your woman, especially the one you have your eye on.  She sounds like an interesting one.  
Hey, Ray is my favorite PL'er!

... in response to Re: You must be mistaken, Ma'am ..., posted by Mita on Aug 11, 2003

I thought she'd be happy another Filipina agreed with her
"so don't worry about her - she's used to it... Most Filipinas are like this... Kung maikli ang kumot, matutong kumukot".

Oops.- So why you have to ask another opinion when I already TOLD you!? I thought we already decided. Do you not trust me ...

Mea culpa, Mea culpa. (I should have said your name was George.)

Material for still another thread, I guess. Sigh.

... in response to Interesting? Oh, yes ..., posted by HaroldC on Aug 12, 2003

Jealousy...it can be irrational sometimes but hardly ever violent.
Next time, I'm willing to be called George :o)

Mita

... in response to You must be mistaken, Ma'am ..., posted by HaroldC on Aug 10, 2003

One thing I've discovered in my marriage, and it parallels what I've found in other Asian families, is that the wife is expected to be in control of home and family issues. It's her turf and generally she'll do her darndest to make sure that the home is comfortable, the kids are disciplined, and the husband is taken care of. She'll likely consider you the boss, though, and though you may have veto power, take my advice and use it very sparingly. Expect that you be filled in about almost everything. Conversely, you have the power out of the home. You get complete control of your career, how money is spent and invested, where and when you go on vacation, etc. She'll expect you to keep her fully informed about what's going on, and she'll most likely go along with almost anything unless she really feels strongly, will likewise use her veto power very sparingly.

That's what I find most appealing about Asian wives. They expect men and women to be different - unlike so many AW who consider men and women interchangeable: women in combat, fine, men as stay at home househusbands, fine, women as firemen, why not, men as kindergarten teachers, sure! While there are some cases where these things are possible, sorry, but men aren't  as equipped as women for mothering infants, and women aren't as equipped as men for humping 300 lb unconscious guys down ladders.

Anyway, a trust should develop between you two to each handle his or her job - like members of a team - the quarterback expects the tackle to block the rushing linebacker and the tackle trusts the quarterback to pacc the ball precisely to the split end - neither should have to worry about the other accomplishing their tasks. Contrast this with many American couples where each feels everything should be done 50/50. I don't know about your high school team, but on mine, there was no way, the quarterback could have stopped the linebackers I faced as tackle, and there was no way I could have hit the receivers at full tilt threading between the safetys.

Sometimes I think American women want to be men. Just listening to the trash talking coming out of 20 something girls these days, and the popularity of shows like Sex In the City, makes me shake my head. I think you'll find most Asian women (at least from the old country,) WANT to be women, LIKE to be women, EXPECT men to be men, and yes, expect to be treated as an equal - but OPPOSITE.

- Jeff

... in response to A thing about control to Asians..., posted by Jeff S on Aug 11, 2003

I picture myself as the old Silverback sitting there munching and ignoring the ruckus. But when something happens I have to get up, everybody else shuts up and sits down. :) Hey, it's my fantasy, all right?

... in response to A thing about control to Asians..., posted by Jeff S on Aug 11, 2003

That was about the best summary I have ever read.  Great job Jeff!

Steveb

... in response to How the heck to handle this?, posted by HaroldC on Aug 9, 2003

Hi Harold,
I don't really have any advice that hasn't been offered already. Just wanted to say "hi" and welcome to PL. I've been lurking the last couple of months. Just ran out of things to say, I guess! ;-)

The fact that your lady is 35 is good. Usually by that time, Filipina's (as most other women), know what they want and are less likely to "play" you, if they are so inclined. Take it slow, don't throw money around, be respectful and you should be ok. Just be careful about giving the "finger" to any Moro's. Do that and you'll have to fight the whole island! LOL!

Take Care,
Jay

... in response to Re: How the heck to handle this?, posted by Jay on Aug 10, 2003

How the hell have you been?

Ray

... in response to Hi Jay!, posted by Ray on Aug 10, 2003

Hi Ray!

I've been just fine, thank-you. Haven't posted in a while, just lurking. Had major computer problems (could read, but not post) after taking the computer in for an upgrade at Best Buy. Can't believe those as$holes! After 5 trips there, I said the hell with it and decided to fix it myself. Even the phone techs didn't have a clue. So I did a little reading and now it's fine. If ya want something done right, do it yourself. LOL! Well, at least I now know how to mess with the insides of the computer. Never had any idea before.

I've been working alot lately. Have to make the money for a trip to the RP in Jan. and for my instrument, commercial and flight instructor ratings. Gonna take a while. I have one job right now, but have to get another to make it work.

So what happened to the Nipa hut? Why did cris take it down? We need another. Got to have a place to get past Patrick's cuss-o-meter and post off topic post's.

Anyway, got to go to work.

Take Care,
Jay

... in response to Re: Hi Jay!, posted by Jay on Aug 10, 2003

Thanks for the update Jay.

The Nipa Hut is still there. I think it was only down for 1 day and then he changed his mind.

http://host35.ipowerweb.com/~thenipah/wwwboard/

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Hi Jay!, posted by Ray on Aug 10, 2003

Hi Ray,

I see it now. Isn't that a new address and a new board though?

Jay

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Hi Jay!, posted by Jay on Aug 11, 2003

:-)

... in response to Same one for months now... n/t, posted by Ray on Aug 11, 2003

It's been a while since I looked for it. Last time I checked, it was gone. Judging by the smiley's, I take it that the board is still uncensored. :-)

Jay

... in response to Re: Hi Jay!, posted by Jay on Aug 10, 2003

Hey Captain Jay,

Glad to hear you are doing fine! Sounds like you've been very busy. Every time a plane flies by, I wave just in case it's you at the controls. :o)

Take it easy,

Dave H.

... in response to Welcome Back!, posted by Dave H on Aug 10, 2003

Hi Dave!,

Yup, I've been busy. Tommorow will be my first day off in 11 days. Hope you weren't getting worried about me. I'm fine.

Haven't been able to fly much lately. Weather has sucked anyway. Maybe Thursday as I have another day off then.

Gotta get ready for work. Talk to you later,
Jay

... in response to Re: Welcome Back!, posted by Jay on Aug 11, 2003

Hey Captain Jay,

My weather alert radio keeps going off.

Nah...I was just worried that you and Criselda were working too much...which turned out to be true. :o))) I need to do the same.

Take care,

Dave H.

... in response to Welcome Back!, posted by Dave H on Aug 10, 2003

Every time a plane flies by, you should flip it off, just in case it's another terrorist on a suicide mission... :-)

Ray

... in response to Wrong!, posted by Ray on Aug 10, 2003

LOL!

I wouldn't worry about terrorists using light aircraft. They dont have enough fuel capacity to make a good bomb. Remember the kid that flew into the building in Tampa a while back? He destroyed one little office. Not much terror impact there. ;-)

Jay

... in response to Wrong!, posted by Ray on Aug 10, 2003

Hi Ray,

If I know Jay, he has "cleaned out" all of those terrorists from the flight schools! They don't call him "Airwolf" for nothing. ;o)))

Dave H.

... in response to But..., posted by Dave H on Aug 11, 2003

n/t

... in response to Re: How the heck to handle this?, posted by Jay on Aug 10, 2003

No, she's definitely not playing.

And I am going to give 'em Dave H.'s finger. :)

... in response to Well, Hi to you too., posted by HaroldC on Aug 10, 2003

I would handle it VERY carefully! :-)

Ray

... in response to You don't know where that finger has bee..., posted by Ray on Aug 10, 2003

Hey Ray,

...I just pulled my finger out of my nose while I was reading this. :8) It was where the sun doesn't shine this morning. *  

Dave H. :o)))

... in response to You don't know where that finger has bee..., posted by Ray on Aug 10, 2003

nt

... in response to How the heck to handle this?, posted by HaroldC on Aug 9, 2003

Money is probably the primary reason that she chose this course in her life.  Many of her actions will not be indicators of how she feels about you but money will be a considerable factor to her family (in most cases).  

I did what Ray suggested.  I just handed over to Honey $4000 upon my arrival.  She made every deal saving me lots and accounted for every penny (er, piso).  I saw I could trust her implicitly and had to insist many times she use it for things because we were on "vacation" and would go back to being concervative when it was over.

But the killer was her family.  Without discussing it with Honey, I discussed money with her father, promising to send her P10000 every month.  I didn't know at that point that the most he had ever made in a month was P4500.  He immediately quit his efforts at finding work and declared his family rich.  Honey not knowing this found out that I was going to put $200/mo in a ATM debit card account for her and she insisted that she would not need that much.  In 11 1/2 months she took the $200 twice and twice took nothing at all, the rest of the time using about $130/mo. with most of that going for the phone ($13) and ISP ($80).  With what allowance she took she paid the rent, electricity, water, food for her whole family, her and her brothers college, books and transportation and expenses required for immigration.  Occasionally giving her parents P1000 for their needs.  We were rewarded with humilating remarks and insults, outcast behavior from the neighbors, yellings and beatings from her family.  Why? Because she didn't give more.

I wanted a wife that was a "stay-at-home-mom", this didn't go over well with her family because they hoped she would send lots of money home so that they could retire off her labors.  Instead I send P2500/mo on a debit card and agreed to pay the college of any siblings that honored my rules about my payi8ng for their college. 1) No illegal activities, 2) above average grades, 3) no quitting once starting, 4) no failed courses, 5) an agreement to help the family as much as Honey is asked once graduated.  Since I made these rules one quit college (after I stop paying for his college) and another decided not to go.  The third will be coming up soon for a decission on nursing school.

If she is hinting at you and your marriage somehow being a benefactor for the family. I think you need a very long discussion before you go. "Pilosopo" is considered a ligitinate excuse (a rude comment meaning "you didn't ask so I didn't tell") in some circles.  You should ask her exactly what her expectations are with money gifts to the family and you should tell her exactly what yours are on money issues.  Honestly, many of the girls are expected to "take" their bf's for all they can get by family and to refuse or fail is considered being a "bad daughter".  So if you spell it out now you will help her be able to say "no" to them should this be part of the pressures they'll apply to her.

Taking gifts is expected, taking everyone out to dinner and having a big party at your expense is expected, Kanos are generous.  I filled the family's house with food for a month for just $25.  Being stupid most likely will make you a target and begin some potential miserable times for you and your honey.

Spell it out and save yourself and your honey some heartache.

Bear and Honey

... in response to Re: How the heck to handle this?, posted by Bear on Aug 9, 2003

Thanks, for you input, Bear. And, yeah, I have heard such horror stories (remember yours vaguely). I am glad everything has settled down for you- as you mentioned to Outwest.

My impression is that you may have spread too much around at the git-go. No criticism, just an observation. I am starting out keeping expectations VERY low.

And I don't think, in my case, money is the primary reason she chose this course, all things considered- which I won't go into here. Suffice to say I am confident of it. BUT, of course it is an issue. There are, however, no younger sibs and Dad is way past retirement already. I suspect she is savvy enough we can play good-cop-bad-cop to those who come out of the woodwork with their hands out. Remember the reason for this thread is ME feeling the need to contribute and her giving NO indication that that is acceptable. She has been playing a bread-winner role for a long time already- unlike, I think, with your Honey.

There will be no beatings. At the first hint of that I will make it very clear that there will be no pay, only pay-back.

... in response to Re: How the heck to handle this?, posted by Bear on Aug 9, 2003

....does it cost to send someone to college in the Phils? Era has a young cousin, who chaperoned us, who wants to go to college. Her mother is widowed. I wouldn't mind helping her if We can afford it but I have no idea what it costs. Thanks, capt david.
BTW era goes for her final, I hope, time to the embassy Friday. Pray for us. dp

... in response to Bear, how much...., posted by capt david on Aug 10, 2003

It cost me less than $600/yr including books for Honey.  Might be the school she was in cost less than most.  Her brothers college was costing me P650 each time he took a test which was usually about every other week for a cost of about $300/yr.  Honey was getting a B.S. accountant degree and her brother was going for computer technology.

I am actually so amazed at the cost and quality of the education many receive there I tried to get my daughter to move there and go to school.  For $300/mo she'd have lived like a god and gotten a great education.

Bear and Honey

... in response to Re: How the heck to handle this?, posted by Bear on Aug 9, 2003

Dang bear , i remember all your stories while you were dating , i forgot how much you went through, my philosophy is , i wont put my gf on "salary" while i am dating her, and i wont put her family on it either once we are married,
Her mom and dad dont need it, both are doing well, thank god, but thanks for your reality check,i sometimes forget,
human nature is what it is. and anyone will take advantage if you let them. well not anyone, but most.

... in response to Re: Re: How the heck to handle this?, posted by outwest77 on Aug 10, 2003

Actually things are doing very well right now on that topic.  Last Cchristmas I sent a letter detailing every penny I spend in a month (converted to pisos) and showed them as where I do make 4 times in a month more than he makes in a year, I spend that living from payday to payday.  Moneys I send them require sacrafice and saving on our part.  It made a difference.  They actually apologized for the hard time they had gave Honey.  She now calls them weekly or chats with them on the computer with a webcam so they ca see "AJ".  MOF thats what she doing as I type.

Bear and Honey

... in response to How the heck to handle this?, posted by HaroldC on Aug 9, 2003

The Guy should offer to make up the difference for Her taking an unaffordable pay loss. Givesss her a peace of mind..Won't cost the Guy muuuuuch. Rather have a happy Filipina than her worrying about losing her pay for being with me. Cost of living in RP is CheaaaaaaaaaaP. Lived in the Philippines High on the Hog for Pennies compared to what I would pay here in America. What I'm saying is that I lived there in Comfort with my Mahal and our Son, buut I was reasonable in How I spent my money..Didn't flash it around or try being a big shot. Some Guys can go to RP without living in Comfort, I need Comfort..sooo it can cost extra $$$$$$$'s for comfort living depending onnnn where you choose to stay and how well the Lady can bargin for You.

... in response to Hi Harold, posted by greg on Aug 9, 2003

Hmmm. Maybe I was not that clear about the situation. I am the one worrying about her 'losing her pay'. I don't think she will take my money- and I think even offering might be make her very nervous.

She spent over two years chatting up Kanos online and says they usually tucked tail and bailed when they found out she supports her 66 year old diabetic widowed father and has a couple of brothers living at home (fine with me, those cheapskate numbsculls left me a gem- I'm holding back a rant here). She was absolutely flabbergasted when I was not surprised, even expected, that a Filipina might be in such a position. I don't think she quite believes it still. So she is paranoid about her family being a drain on me.

... in response to How the heck to handle this?, posted by HaroldC on Aug 9, 2003

Well Harold, I think fixing a cockfight is probably the easiest way out of your dilemma (LOL).

Seriously, that’s a good idea!  Not offering her any money is the smartest thing you can do. Keeping money out of the equation will make everything else much simpler.

The idea of buying some food is thoughtful, but doesn’t fit well with the traditional Filipino idea of hospitality. Food over there is relatively cheap by our standards, but can be quite expensive to them. They will likely want to impress you with the best they have to offer, so I would keep in mind that it may be costing them a lot to entertain you in their home. You can offer to go shopping with her at the local market (bring a gas mask) and buy the groceries, but don’t force the issue. If she insists on paying, then let her.

Treat her family (all of them) to dinner at a nice restaurant or a movie, but don’t go overboard with the gifts. Bring some small gifts (pasalubong) for the family members but try to keep it simple and inexpensive.  U.S. made souvenir items and candy are great.

If you are planning to spend your entire trip with her, then you may not want to spend all of your time staying at her home. If you are invited to stay with them I would jump at the chance, but you might want to try to limit that to several days. If there is a decent hotel nearby, you might want to stay there for the majority of your stay. The excuse that your frail body is not accustomed to the tropical heat and you need air-conditioning to survive works well. That way, you take some of the pressure off of them to spend all of their money to feed you. If you’re adventurous, politely ask that they serve the regular daily fare for meals while you are there so that you can experience some of the traditional Filipino foods (don’t forget the Tabasco!).

If she will be going to work while you are there, then staying in a hotel for most of your stay may be much more practical. That way you can spend a little time on your own during the day if you want. I wouldn’t insist that she take time off from work while you are there. Let her decide how to handle that issue. Just try to be flexible and go with the flow. If she is working, maybe you can meet for lunch?

Since you sound serious about this lady, I would offer this suggestion. When you arrive, turn over your dollars (hold back a hundred dollar bill for emergencies) to her for safekeeping and let her pay for everything while you are together. That will give you an excellent opportunity to observe her financial management skills firsthand. The worst that could happen is that she disappears with your money, but that would be a cheap lesson learned. She will probably be very careful to save you money, so WHEN YOU LEAVE, you can then insist that she keep some or all of what is leftover. After all, she saved you a lot of money by getting the best exchange rates and bargaining for stuff, so she did you a big favor ;-). Since that was what you budgeted for the trip, you leave with exactly what you planned on. Just make sure you have enough for airport fees, taxis, food, etc on your return trip. Tell her it’s for postage, computer time, or whatever and insist mildly that she take it. That way, you can leave with a clean conscious after eating them out of house & home during your stay and her family can keep their pride intact.

Keep your radar tuned for any requests for money while you are there. You will have the opportunity to learn a lot about her and her family’s views on money by not splurging on them. After all, if they see you as a spendthrift, then they may adjust their future relationship with you accordingly.

Lastly, be sure to have a backup plan on how to spend the rest of your time over there just in case something does go wrong and you need to bail out... :-)

Ray

... in response to Simple..., posted by Ray on Aug 9, 2003

Lots of excellent advice- have heard a lot of it from you before.:) (I know it's partly for the silent majority.)

I know shirtless Filipinos will go into hock to buy a shirt to give a guest the shirt off his back. She's the one insisting she not work- she really wants this one in the bag and I have told her we have to get to know each other in person first, so, OK, Bud, we're going to get to know each other.

I HATE TO OFFER HER MONEY, my gut says DON'T do it (see my reply to Greg) but, yeah, I think when I leave is the best time. Either we will be engaged and I can insist that therefore it is OK for me to contribute (she still won't like it) or we won't- in which case I will be explaining that I got to know her and do not want her- and offering money will look like I am trying to buy my way out (now there's a lose/lose situation- maybe I can stage my own kidnapping).

This just makes me nuts- what are we talking about, $60? I'd rather slash my wrists than think about a little kid going without eating or her Dad going without his insulin.