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Those of you who never buy or read this book of Gracia Burnham you should hurry now to go to your local bookstore.(barnes and nobles bookstore)Cost only 23 bucks and worth reading.Very nice story, for me it's funny but sad.Raquel

... in response to In the Presence of My Enemies, posted by Febtember on May 28, 2003

Excellent book but puts the Filipine Military in a very bad light with accusations of corruption and incompetent military actions that eventually resulted in the death of Mr. Burnham.  GMA has promised to investigate the accusations but I wonder how successful that will be since the military controls the country.

Alvin

... in response to Excellent book for the spiritual, posted by Alvin1 on May 29, 2003

Alvin,

It's easy to blame the death of Martin Burnham on the incompetent actions of the Philippine military, but let’s put the blame where it really belongs. Lest we forget where the REAL problem lies, he was murdered by the scumbag a-hole Abu Sayef dick-head Shyt-eating Muslim extremist terrorists who kidnapped him in the first place!

Also, same question as Jay’s: Where did you get the idea that Philippine military controls the country???

Ray

... in response to Huh?, posted by Ray on May 29, 2003

It has been widely reported in the phils newspapers that the army generals were on the take and wanted to split the ransom money , and thats why it took them so long to hunt down the abu sayeff, and the burnhams reported that the military delivered food to them regularly............

... in response to Re: Huh?, posted by outwest77 on May 29, 2003

Yes, I've heard all of that before. So, that's why the military controls the country???

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Huh?, posted by Ray on May 30, 2003

No i didnt say the military controls the country, that was someone else who said that.........

Just commenting on the bizarre extent of corruption there, sad that it holds down the country so much, the economy , etc.

Wish that there was an easy solution to bring the people out of poverty, but i think that is the main reason the phils wont soon claw its way out of their situation. Heck, even Vietnam, who only recently started modernizing, is ahead of the phils in its growth rate.

Still love the place, but am constantly amazed at the extent of the corruption in high places there.

... in response to Nah, posted by outwest77 on May 30, 2003

I ran across this article recently and found it interesting.

Ray

-----
The worst, best of times / Back to your cave, Goma
by Teodoro C. Benigno

Philippine Star 01 August 2001

These are the worst of times, the best of times. This is a favorite quote from Charles Dickens I snatch from the literary-philosophical grove everytime the world shakes under my feet. Ninoy Aquino’s assassination almost 18 years ago had my world spinning as did EDSA One in 1986. And then EDSA II and EDSA III just so many heartbeats ago. And so in that sense, they were the worst of times. They rent our breast, spun us against the wall, and we would have fallen had we not also realized they were "the best of times." As Emerson said: "We learn geology the morning after an earthquake." And the Chinese word for crisis comprises two characters – one representing danger, the other opportunity.

And in this worst of times, brought to a brave, optimistic smile however threadbare by President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo in her promises-punctuated SONA (State of the Nation Address), we learn from G.K. Chesterton that "a tragedy always means a man’s struggle with that which is stronger than man." Know what was missing in that SONA? A soul.

In many of our recent writings, greatly helped by a month’s vacation where he could reflect better, this author chartered a different path. We sought to understand why the Filipino remained a "born loser" in the great human struggle to escape poverty, why our democracy remained an abject failure, why unlike the others our economy couldn’t soar. We talk and bicker too much, and act too little, said GMA in her SONA. The Yellow Paper II of 30 outstanding economists and social scientists said we needed more "effective leadership" plus a program to alleviate poverty. That multinational guru Peter Wallace said Filipinos must develop a sense of national pride and doing things for society, not the individual. The CNN-APS led by Triccie Sison and Brother Roly Dizon brought out its rapier to thrust gamely at poverty and corruption.

I have chosen the culture of the Filipino as my battleground.

Mine is the conviction that unless we dig deep into our culture, we will never see the pit bull that has torn our pants off, gnawed at our intestines and robbed us of our soul.

And so we possess a rich class which does not care about anything except getting more rich, a very corrupt political system that extols democracy but lives off the fat of the land, and a dominant religion, habits, customs and beliefs – yes mores – that somehow glorify the poor and are stubbornly resistant to modern economic progress —- and hard, back-breaking work. Small wonder we Filipinos have the biggest begging panhandle this part of the world.

I have dwelt on this many times in this space. Deep inside, our culture is Ibero-Catholic-Spanish. Let me emphasize that. The Philippines is the only real daughter of the Roman Church in Asia. Thus, we are so different from the rest in Asia. We pray a lot to the Virgin Mary and all the saints in heaven. Hollywood is just frosting on our cultural cake. We speak English by historic accident and not because America’s Protestant Old World culture —- drawn from the Industrial Revolution in Britain and the Renaissance in Europe – got deeply lodged in our psyche.

To better illustrate, we would like to refer to that celebrated Peruvian writer Mario Vargas Llosa (who lost to disgraced Alberto Fujimori when the latter first ran for the presidency). Vargas Llosa wrote that economic, educational, and judicial reforms in Latin America (he must as well have added the Philippines) were impossible:

"Unless they are preceded or accompanied by a reform of our customs and ideas, and of the whole complex of habits, knowledge, image and forms that we understand by ‘culture.’ The culture within which we live and act today in Latin America is neither liberal nor is it altogether democratic. We have democratic governments, but our institutions, our reflexes, our mentality are very far from being democratic. They remain populist and oligarchic, or absolutist, collectivist and dogmatic, flawed by social and racial prejudices, immensely intolerant with respect to political adversaries and devoted to the worst monopoly of all, that of the truth."

Digest that well. Don’t you get the heebie-jeebies? And then we go to Samuel P. Huntington (world famous for his classic Clash of Civilizations). In his Pan-American Dream, Huntington identifies ten values or mind-sets that distinguish progressive cultures from static cultures. You could almost swear Huntington was writing about the Philippines, vide :

First. time orientation. Progressive cultures emphasize the future. Static cultures emphasize the present or past.

Second. Work is central to the good life in progressive cultures but is a burden in static cultures. In the former, work structures daily life. Diligence, creativity, and achievement are rewarded not only financially but also with satisfaction and self-respect.

Third. Frugality is the mother of investment — and financial security — in progressive cultures but is a threat to the ‘egalitarian’ status quo in static cultures, which often have a zero-sum world view.

Fourth. Education is the key to progress in progressive cultures. Connections and family are what count in static cultures.

Fifth. Community. In progressive cultures, the radius of identification and trust extends beyond the family, to the broader society. Societies with a narrow focus of identification and trust are more prone to corruption, tax evasion, and nepotism, and they are less likely to engage in philantrophy.

Sixth. Merit is central to advancement in progressive cultures. Again, connections and family are what count in static cultures.

Seventh. The ethical code tends to be more rigorous in progressive cultures. Every advanced democracy (except Belgium, Taiwan, Italy and South Korea appears among the 25 least corrupt countries on Transparency International’s Corruption Perception Index.

Eighth. Justice and fair play are universal expectations in progressive cultures. In static culture, justice like personal advancement is often a function of whom you know and how much you can pay (Hear, hear! Now you know why GMA and Ping Lacson met in Malacañang. TCB).

Ninth. Authority tends toward dispersion and horizontality in progressive cultures, towards concentration and verticality in static cultures.

Tenth. Secularism. The influence of religious institution on civic life is small in progressive cultures. Its influence is often substantial in static cultures.

What I want to happen is that our culture as Filipinos gets to front and center in a raging national discussion and debate. It’s time we elevated the quality and context of the national agenda. Huge and bigger cracks are opening in our republican armor . . . And unless we move soon, we Filipinos shall all miss the point. The locomotive. We are almost half a century late. Already we are biting the dust of Thailand and Malaysia. Shall we wait for Vietnam to send us to the cleaners?

That’s why the spectacle of Richard Gomez threatening to use "people power" to get himself back into the Congress as MAD (Mamamayan Ayaw sa Droga) representative is absolutely hilarious. Mad, Go back to your cave, Goma, or whatever planet you came from. You’re the kind that People Power spits out. You got a lot of gall, kiddo. Stick to the movies, and get the stink of the last presidency out of your system. Kee-rist! At one time you even heavily advertised cigarettes.
-----

... in response to One Filipino's Perspective, posted by Ray on May 31, 2003

Interesting the Part about glorifying poverty, i agree with that...........and noticed it a lot, in the newspapers,

And the part about vietnam even, beginning to overtake them, i notice that too.

Sad that the phils with all the english speaking hard working smiling citizens, cant dig itself out of the economic basement........

Love going there though.

... in response to Nah, posted by outwest77 on May 30, 2003

"Still love the place, but am constantly amazed at the extent of the corruption in high places there"

Well said. Me too. I've never heard of a military on the take like that. I'm sure it's happened in other countries, but I never heard of it. Can you imagine being a soldier in that Army?? How terrible. Your own commanders selling you out. Unfathomable to me.

Jay

... in response to Excellent book for the spiritual, posted by Alvin1 on May 29, 2003

'since the military controls the country"

Where do you get that idea from??

Jay

... in response to Re: Excellent book for the spiritual, posted by Jay on May 29, 2003

Marcos to the time GMA assumed the presidency.  GMA had to ask for the support of the military before she assumed the presidency.  It was widely reported in the paper that Ramos wanted to stay in power but the major generals would not support him and allowed the public protests against him to proceed.

Mr. Burnham was killed when the Abu S.. was attacked by the Philippine Military.  No one knows who fired the shot that killed Mr. Burnham.  The Abu's wanted to keep both of them alive for possible ramsom and there was no benefit to killing them. You have to read the book before making assumption about who killed of Mr. Burnham.

Did you see the interview of GMA by one the news documentary prior to the ""rescue"" of Mrs. Burnham?  If you had seen this documentary, you would know what I am talking about.  She was pathetic in the interview when questioned about the Burnham saga.

It is well known in the RP that the military generals are extremely powerful and are not easily controlled by the president of the country as they are in the US. The Generals in the USA answer to the President and obey his orders.  The Generals in the RP discuss what is to be done with the president and then they decide what is to be done.  Since 1947, Marcos is the only president to control the generals but this is possible becasue he was more corrupt then they were.

This is not an assumption it is fact that can be obtained by simply reading the newspaper.

If all this fails to convince you, then ask any educated cab driver who speaks English when you visit again.

Alvin

... in response to Read the newspaper from, posted by Alvin1 on Jun 2, 2003

This is not an assumption it is fact that can be obtained by simply reading the newspaper"

No it isn't, it's an assumption and one that's pretty far off the mark.

The military is not strong enough or smart enough to control the country. Hec, even the Catholic church has as much if not more, power than the military. That doesn't mean either one "controls" the country. Although I'm sure GMA has a hard time dealing with the Generals, they do not TELL her what to do.  The closest the military came to controling the country WAS during Marcos. The military WAS Marcos. That was because of the Martial Law declared. Though even during that time it didn't feel like that. At least not in Manila where I was living at the time. Only time I ever saw the military during Martial Law was when I would go visit bases or during curfew from 1-4 AM.

I think it's obvious that your assumption is wrong. I think your misunderstanding what you are reading. To say the military controls the government is just flat out incorrect, but the Generals do talk alot of smack and I can see where someone who is unfamiliar with the way things work there could get that impression.

When it comes to the Philippines, I need not seek out educated cab driver's and the like. I get my information firsthand or from reliable sources such as friends in high places. I have also read a Philippine newspaper almost every day since 1974. :-)

Jay

... in response to Re: Read the newspaper from, posted by Jay on Jun 2, 2003

I agree Jay, even though all my friends in the Philippines are in LOW places :-D

Jim

... in response to Blame it all on my roots, posted by Jimbo on Jun 2, 2003

ROTFLMAOTNTPIMP!

Yeah Jimbo, I have Filipino friends in low places also. Every time a typhoon rolls through, they get flooded out. I keep telling them to move up to the high ground, but they just won't listen... :-)

Ray

... in response to Blame it all on my roots, posted by Jimbo on Jun 2, 2003

LMMFAO!! Yeah Jim, I got friends there too!

Jay

... in response to Re: Read the newspaper from, posted by Jay on Jun 2, 2003

The Philippine Military Generals are highly intelligent and many have been educated in the USA.  I do not know why you would insult them with such arrogance. The generals have intellect, power and control the politics of the country thru their influence.  GMA operates at the pleasure of the military and you will never see her contradict their authority publically. If you do not believe me, ask your "FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES." Your remarks are strongly racist.  Filipinos are as intelligent as any other race of people and many are as dedicated to their work as American and sometimes even more dedicated.  Many Filipinos have given their life to improve the security of their country.  

Thank you for agreeing with me on the Marcos regime but you make my point much better then I without the understand to understand.

I agree that the Catholic church is very strong politically since up to 90% of Filipinos are Catholic but they have no military power. The army has political, economic and military power.  

GMA does not have a hard time dealing with the Generals, she simply does what they want her to do so that she can keep her position. She has never demoted or deciplined an army general or colonel since taking office.  She has never criticized a military person since taking office.  She only promises to investigate when a complaint is made and you never hear her say anything after that.

There is corruption because the generals operate autonomously in many cases because of their political power and lack of well defined presidential powers or congressional power to fire them.  For example, watch the hearings on the Burnham charges, if there are hearings on the charges as promised by GMA.  I am sure that you know all about this since you read the Filipino papers frequently.  

The RP is still considered by most to be a 3rd world country and the military always occupies a position of authority which determines the politics of the country.  Without the military there is no rule in most 3rd world country.  The armies are controlled by the generals, not the president.

I am insulted by your remarks, not because my wife and daughers are Filipina, but becasue your remarks are unintelligent, inflammatory and racist.  Your are judging a group of people as not smart or strong.  There are some good generals in the RP who suffer because of the actions of a few.

I usually ignore inflammatory posts like yours but I cannot because you are insulting my Filipino family here and in the RP with your absurd remarks and I do not want to ignore it and let people assume that I cannot reponse to this type of inflammatory remarks with intelligence.

Please name your friends in high places and their titles.  I am not saying that I doubt you but I would like some documentation of these friends.  I am sure that they are not Filipino becasue they would not be smart or strong enough to be your friend.

Alvin

... in response to What friends in high places?, posted by Alvin1 on Jun 2, 2003

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Jesus Alvin, were you born an assh0le, or did you work at it your whole life?

Don't even try to go there with me. I won't bite. Your knowledge of the Philippines is apparently limited at best, and it's painfully obvious that YOU are the one with racist issues. Don't like white folks too much, do ya, Alvin? Always screaming racism. You came on here before with that nonsense calling someone else a racist over something just as far in left field as this.

If you want to debate Philippine politics, fine. However, when you start the racist crap, I'm out. I don't debate with lunatics, gives me a headache.

As for my friends in high places, well, had you asked nice I would have gladly dropped a couple of names. However since you didn't, I don't feel compelled to answer.

I have a Filipino family too Alvin. Not to mention, many old dear family friends. These include former politicians and Generals. My own blood family history in the Philippines goes back over 50 years. How about yours? I don't need to prove my credentials to you.

I'm not upset by your remarks as I feel they make my point better than I ever could.

Jay

... in response to Re: What friends in high places?, posted by Jay on Jun 2, 2003

"Jesus Alvin, were you born an assh0le, or did you work at it your whole life?"

When you know you are lossing such a simple debate,  and you cannot respond intelligently because you have made idiotic statements that no one can defend, then you resort to name calling, profanity and insults.

"Don't even try to go there with me. I won't bite. Your knowledge of the Philippines is apparently limited at best, and it's painfully obvious that YOU are the one with racist issues. Don't like white folks too much, do ya, Alvin? Always screaming racism. You came on here before with that nonsense calling someone else a racist over something just as far in left field as this."

I never made a racist statement, you did without even knowing what you were saying was racist.  You insulted the entire Philippines when you wrote: "The Philippine military is not smart enough or strong enough to do anything right".
I have never made a racist statement or called anyone a racist without justification.  Racism is for the intelligently challenged.  Your statement speaks for itself.  You respond to any type of disagreement with reactionarism associated with name calling, insults and profanity rather than facts.

"If you want to debate Philippine politics, fine. However, when you start the racist crap, I'm out. I don't debate with lunatics, gives me a headache."

Oh, that is why you respond inapproiately, you have a headache.

"As for my friends in high places, well, had you asked nice I would have gladly dropped a couple of names. However since you didn't, I don't feel compelled to answer."

I did ask nicely but this was your response. You have no friends in high places.  This is the very typical response when someone makes an untrue statement and they have to wiggle out of it.

"I have a Filipino family too Alvin. Not to mention, many old dear family friends. These include former politicians and Generals. My own blood family history in the Philippines goes back over 50 years. How about yours? I don't need to prove my credentials to you."

Oh, that is why you say that the philippine military is not smart enough or strong enough, because of your Filipino hertiage, Filipino General and politician friends and intimate knowledge of the RP.  Your hertiage, friends and knowledge of the RP has lead to your conclusion that the Philippine Military is not smart or strong.  Conclusion: Your Filipino Former General and Former Politican friends are not smart or strong.  I am sure that is why you used the word: Former

"I'm not upset by your remarks as I feel they make my point better than I ever could."

Good, someone has to make your point better than you.

Alvin

... in response to NO  friends in high places?, posted by Alvin1 on Jun 3, 2003

"The Philippine military is not smart enough or strong enough to do anything right".

Did I say this??

No, I said this:"The military is not strong enough or smart enough to control the country".

Big difference. You try to change my words to suite your argument. Very bad form.

"I have never made a racist statement or called anyone a racist without justification"

BS... You just did it to me. I believe the last time it was Dave H. Correct me if I am wrong.

I was speaking of the Philippine military as a military. Not as a race or individuals. Militarily they are "the gang that couldn't shoot straight". Sorry, but that's the cold, hard facts. Thier record speaks for itself. That is why the US is now training them. This has nothing to do with racism.It's a military thing.  Anyone reading my post can clearly see that. Except you. However, you chose to scream racism. I wonder why?

I set you up Alvin. My first post asking where you got the idea that the military runs the country was the hook. Most of your posts in the past have been rather negative as I remember. More of a troll like quality. I wanted to see what you were like. Well, I couldn't believe you got all the way to racism. So quickly too. That was the icing on the cake for me. I didn't think you would go there. Mainly because I would never give you a reason. I wouldn't say anything racist. Then you latch on to what I said about the Philippine military and run with it. Amazing, really.

A man gets higher education and many times he begins to feel a bit superior in intellect to his fellows around him. As time goes on and his feelings of superiority grow, so does he become more vulnerable to being made a fool of. He becomes an easy mark. You are that man, Alvin. You fell for my plan hook, line and sinker. Sorry, I was bored that day.

Frankly, I agree with most of your assesment of the Philippine military. Except that it controls the country. Let me give you a clue. FAMILIES run the Philippines. Depends who's president on what families are running the show. Usually 3 or 4 families with ties to the presidents family. They all have one thing in common. They are stinking rich. Now it is the Macapagals and thier off shoots. These are the ones who get all the buisiness contracts etc and get even richer during the presidents term. They extend into all sectors of society including the military. Philippine politics is more about clans than anything else.

What I meant about the Philippine military was that I believe the people are too smart to ever let the military be again so in control as during Marcos time. They have been there, done that and have the EDSA T-shirts to prove it. Too bad you couldn't see that.

 "The board has few members becasue of this type of behavior and Patrick has to monitor the board like an elementary school principal to delect remarks such as the ones from you and Jay"

This is from your post to Ray. If you think this board is bad then your obviously not reading the other boards. We're the LEAST confontational board of the three.

As for friends in high places. I say former because they are all old and retired now. They are my Tito's and Tita's. Family fiends of my parents. The ones that are still alive anyway. All come from the type of families I just described above. I don't talk to them all much anymore, but from time to time I give some a call. Like recently when I got my pilots license. My 76 year old father talks to all of them regularly though. Between them and all his old retired friends who live in the Philippines, many former intelligence people, he is very up to date on whats going on there. Particularly behind the scenes. So I guess I erred. I usually get the scoop on the Philippines and whats happening there from the old man, unless I talk to one of my Tito's. Not firsthand. My mistake. You can only get this type of perspective from these kind of folks and if you don't know anyone from these families, you get a distorted view of whats really going on. That's all I meant. I do not know the president.

I've got to go to Orlando tommorow for my FILIPINO daughters wedding, so I can't spend time arguing with you. I wish you the best, Alvin and would have gladly liked to talk more about your thoughts on the Philippine military. You do make some good arguments and seem to have some idea of what your talking about. However, you failed the lunatic troll test. I can't deal with a man who see's the world through hate filled racist glasses. I just don't have the time nor energy for it......

... in response to Re: NO  friends in high places?, posted by Jay on Jun 3, 2003

Hey Jay,

Is that going to be a traditional kasalan (Filipino style wedding) in the church? Just remeber not to fart while you're walking her down the aisle :-)

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: NO  friends in high places?, posted by Ray on Jun 3, 2003

Hi Ray,

LMMFAO!! No, it's going to be a traditional American wedding. It's actually on Saturday, but we're going tommorow. I'll try to remember your advice! ;-)

Jay

... in response to Re: NO  friends in high places?, posted by Jay on Jun 3, 2003

Hi Jay,

...it was a post to Humabdos that you are referring to. "I believe the last time it was Dave H. Correct me if I am wrong."

For now, I will let you guys fight it out. It has the potential to become a very interesting and informative thread on the Philippines.

Congratulations on your daughter's wedding!

Dave H.

... in response to I think..., posted by Dave H on Jun 3, 2003

Hi Dave,

My mistake. I just remember Alvin went off on someone calling them racist over something I thought at the time was bizzare. Can't remember what it was.

This HAD the potential to become a very interesting and informative thread. IF it didn't go into left field.

I'm not fighting it out. I truly don't have the time and I'm not upset by the whole thing. It's about what I expected. Not the racism charges, but some kind of angry reply.

Thanks for the congrats.

Jay

... in response to NO  friends in high places?, posted by Alvin1 on Jun 3, 2003

Hey Alvin,

Let me explain something to you. The Philippine military is NOT a race, it’s an organization. If I said that the U.S. INS is too stupid and too lazy to do their job right, does that make me a racist??? To attempt to portray Jay’s comments as racist only makes you look like a dumb-ass uneducated fool, IMHO.

YOU are the one who started with the insults and personal attacks, so quit your stupid whining.

Ray

... in response to Re: Read the newspaper from, posted by Jay on Jun 2, 2003

I think that people who get all of their “facts” from cab drivers and newspapers, then think that they know it all, are only fooling themselves.

The Abu Sayef murdered Martin Burnham just as surely as they chopped the head off of Guillermo Sobero. They sure did want to keep HIM alive, didn’t they - yeah, right! Making excuses for the terrorists by blaming Burnham’s death on the corrupt military is simply asinine IMHO.

Ray

... in response to I Agree Jay, posted by Ray on Jun 2, 2003

NT

... in response to As I expected from you Ray, typical. I n..., posted by Alvin1 on Jun 2, 2003

You blamed the military for Martin Burnham's death. Just because he died during a rescue attempt, doesn't mean that you place the blame on the rescuers.

Put the blame where it belongs...on the Abu Sayef terrorists!

Ray

... in response to Go back and read your posts again!, posted by Ray on Jun 2, 2003

I live in a military town (Fort Bragg, home of the 82nd) home of well trained soldiers that could have possibly rescued the Burnhams alive and well with their training and patience.  The actions of the RP military were described by Ms. Burnham as .....   Well go read the book, it is obvious that you have not read the book and as usual shooting from the hip.  

Alvin

Alvin

... in response to The blames lies on the Abu S.., posted by Alvin1 on Jun 2, 2003

And you're shooting from your ass buddy.

I don't care if you live in Tijuana. Where you live doesn't make you any more intelligent or informed than anyone else here. I live in a bigger military town (San Diego) than you do, but I am not so arrogant as to proclaim a superior knowledge of world events because of where I live. LOL!

Your comments about asking a cab driver were insulting and arrogant. You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you is misinformed, ignorant, and a racist. Blah, blah, blah!

Sorry, but I find Jay's logic much more intelligent than yours. Jay has much more experience in the Philippines than you do and to call him a racist is absolute bull shyt!

Ray

... in response to Re: The blames lies on the Abu S.., posted by Ray on Jun 2, 2003

"Sorry, but I find Jay's logic much more intelligent than yours. Jay has much more experience in the Philippines than you do and to call him a racist is absolute bull shyt!"

"Ray"

Are you grading my intelligence?  If so, then I can understand your statement.  The only difference between Ray and Jay is the first letter.  You both resort to reactionary insults because you cannot defend a simple point.

I read this board for the jokes and scan the board out of curiosity.

You are a good contributory to the board and will take the time to look up information from websites to give answers to neophye questions.

The board has few members becasue of this type of behavior and Patrick has to monitor the board like an elementary school principal to delect remarks such as the ones from you and Jay.

Both of you need to grow up and stop using profanity and insults when someones dares to disagree with you.

Alvin

... in response to Chill out Ray, posted by Alvin1 on Jun 3, 2003

I think that anyone who cries racism because they can't argue their point in an intelligent manner definitely has some problems that need the attention of a mental health professional.

Do yourself and the world a favor Alvin and get some help today... :-)

Ray

... in response to In the Presence of My Enemies, posted by Febtember on May 28, 2003

I heard about it on Dateline, when they did the story a few weeks ago.................did the book mention anything about the suspicion that the philippine army generals were accused of trying to collect some of the ransom money