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Kumusta! Good afternoon, kumusta ka na? Ummmm can you please post about that church named Eglesia ni Cristo or is it Iglisa ni Cristo? I don't belong to that Church, I attend a Christian Church(Jesus is Lord). I'm curious about your thoughts on this Iglisa na Cristo Church, what do you know about this Church? Yes, these Iglisa Churches are everywhere here in California(mostly in the Spanish Communities), but I never visited them before. BTW, are you Roman Catholic or are you an Iglisa member yourself?  Maraming Salamat, greg

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

You still awake hehehee. Ummmm can you please give us tips on how we can make our Mahals more happy? What are your opinions on America? When I visited the Philippines last 1999, I was totally culture shocked. I had no real problems, no muggings, or anything. I only disliked the smog and stares. I feel more prepared for my second outting to RP. Well, my problem was staying in the Manila area for two months(yuk). This time I plan to leave the city as soon as I finish with issues at Embassy, thinking about taking my Son and his Mom to Cebu(never been there before). Don't feel afraid to Post, we need more Pinays on board :-) greg

... in response to Hello!!! Midnightgirl U out there???, posted by greg on Mar 20, 2001

Hi there Greg!!

What part of Iloilo does your son's Mom :o) come from?  It so happened I grew up in Iloilo and am interested whether or not you will be posting impressions of your trip there later on.  Just in case you need a guide via remote control my e-mail is always at your disposal.  Regards       rgg

... in response to Re: Hello!!! Midnightgirl U out there???, posted by rgg on Mar 21, 2001

Hi! Rgg, she lives in Mangil, Janiuay. Ummmm I don't think that I'm traveling to ILoiLo, don't want my Son traveling four trips back and forth on Ferry boat(ILoilo is one day journey on ferry to Manila). Thanks for the offer, but my Mahal's good at taking care of my needs there in the Philippines. :-) greg

... in response to Hello!!! Midnightgirl U out there???, posted by greg on Mar 20, 2001

Hello Greg,

I don't know how to give tips to make all you Mahals happy co'z  when i arrived here, i already don't like it  maybe  because it's a countryside place and I'm not used to live which is far from the city, i frankly said it to my husband. What he did to me is, he always treat me to go outside watch movies , shopping like going to big malls in Minneapolis and Rochester. He also bought a VCD karaoke for me co'z i liked singing. Before when i was not working, i keep myself  busy doing some arrangement in the house, cooking dinner for my hubby when he got home from work. Since now were both working we shared the works in the house, sometimes he do the cooking and washing.

I really admired seeing big cities even i know how crowded it is, pollution because of the smog and traffic too but now i realize how nice and  wonderful to have a peaceful place to live were your far from harm and danger.

... in response to Re: Hello!!! Midnightgirl U out there???, posted by midnightgirl on Mar 20, 2001

opinion on rings??? Maybe you should get paid for posting your advice hehehehe. I want to know if it's true that most Pinays sell, give away or pawn their enagement and marriage rings when breaking up with their Boyfriend or Hubby? The reason I'm asking you this question is becuz my ex American Pinay had many expensive rings from her last lover before meeting me, and since they broke up she got rid of all the rings cheaply. And my close Asian friend wants to sell her marriage rings cheaply even  through she's not divorced from her Hubby, only separated. So, I'm curious if most Pinays like that or do they treasure their rings after break ups. greg

... in response to Re: Re: Hello!!! Midnightgirl What's You..., posted by greg on Mar 21, 2001

Greg,

Well, you'll be the one to pay for me since you had many questions ask....:0) just kidding.

My answer to your questions is that i could not do that, sell or pawn the engagement or the wedding ring. I will always treasured it no matter what even to the smallest thing he gave to me i still keep it but you know that depends on the woman too if she doesn't treasured the rings co'z maybe she doesn't want to reminisce all the days when they were together.

... in response to Re: Re: Hello!!! Midnightgirl What's You..., posted by greg on Mar 21, 2001

Hi Greg,

I thought you might like to hear about the disposal of my wedding band. The first break up, I moved out of the house for a month. I was working construction with my brother to earn extra money. While holding a hammer one day, I got a brilliant idea. I smashed the ring...I remembered to take my finger out first though. ;o))

When we got back together, I managed to straighten it back to a lopsided oval. I took it to a jeweler and he miraculously got it round again.

On the final breakup, I decided to do things right. I cut the ring into 4 pieces with a ring cutter. Then I tried to melt it with a torch. I was somewhat successful. I was going to completely melt it down, but changed my mind. I ended up tossing it one piece at a time into a canal, as I drove down the rode in my car.

My ex told me that I was crazy and should have pawned it. I smiled and told her that I wanted to make darn sure that it never ended up back on my finger again or anyone elses for that matter.

So far her new husband has only smashed his. Give him time... ;o))

Dave H.

P.S. The ring contained 3 small diamonds, if anyone wants to go diving for the pieces. 0-)

... in response to Re: Re: Hello!!! Midnightgirl What's You..., posted by greg on Mar 21, 2001

What I'm saying is that those Asian women were upset with their Boyfriend and Hubby, so they wanted to get rid of those expensive rings. I'm concerned, I see many Pinays with gold rings with very large diamonds that cost much $$$$$'s. It doesn't make sense to spend thousands of dollars on a ring for your Mahal, then becuz they break up she gets rid of it cheaply. My American Pinay of over two years of courtship wanted me to buy her an expensive engagement ring with a large diamond, I remembered how she got rid of all those expensive rings from her last lover, so of course I found reasons not to buy the ring for her, thank goodness, becuz we are no longer together and I'm sure that she would have sold that ring worth thousands of dollars for pennies smile. greg

... in response to BTW, Midightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 21, 2001

Greg,

Not all asian women, i am one of that. In fact, my boyfriends before gave me some expensive things like rings, watch etc. etc. etc. after my broke up with i still have it so why should i sell or pawn or gave to anybody. For me that was the part of my past life.

Then don't buy an expensive one for your mahal if it doesn't make sense you know. It's not the value of the ring is important but how you love the woman and how the woman loves you right! That's all.

My husband didn't buy too much $$$$$$ on the engagement ring he gave to me.

... in response to Re: Re: Hello!!! Midnightgirl What's You..., posted by greg on Mar 21, 2001

May I share MY sentiments on the issue?....*s*
As far as I know (meaning me and other filipinas i have known all my life),  a wedding ring is what's IMPORTANT.
Value is immaterial.  An engagement ring is NOT necessary.

Supposing for example that indeed an engagement ring is given  or any other valuable gifts ,  and a "breakup" happens.....it is then imperative for me  (honor-bound) to return all the things.

Sometimes,  even letters and/or cards are returned tied with a pink ribbon.   *s*

I hope this helps clear the issue.  

... in response to Re: Hello!!! Midnightgirl U out there???, posted by midnightgirl on Mar 20, 2001

God's been good to You. Everything sounds exciting for You and your Hubby. Your marriage sounds like a successful story that the board need to hear, I think your a good wife to your Hubby and he's very good to you. BTW, my Father is very emotional becuz my Son and his Mommy are not here in the States, I must find a way to get them here when I go visit them in RP. My goodness, it's going to be very hot during my stay there. greg

... in response to Re: Re: Hello!!! Midnightgirl U out ther..., posted by greg on Mar 21, 2001

Greg,

I wish you all the luck and happiness. Everyone of us deserves happiness , just look the bright side of your new one and forget the past one.

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

A little clarification of terminaology seems in order.

A web search of "Church of Christ" will generally yield 4 main topics.

1. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
The Mormons. You can find info on them at their official web site at http://www.lds.org/.

2.  The United Church of Christ
Another main-stream denomination.  Their web-site is at http://www.ucc.org/.

3.  The churches of Christ
This non-denominational denomination came out of the 19th century restoration movement.  Though it can be found world wide, it is mostly popular in the southern United States where in every town you can find 3 churches: a Methodist, a Baptist, and a Church of Christ (and there is a great deal of cross-polination of style but not doctrine).  Their web site is at http://church-of-christ.org/.

4.  The International Churches of Christ
a.k.a. the Boston Movement Churches of Christ.  Though carrying the same name as number 3, it is a sectarian off-shoot dating back to around the 1970's and has an emphasis on evangelism and strict doctrinal adherance (i.e. no dating outside the church).  Info on them can be found at http://www.unc.edu/~elliott/iccbib.htm.  There is little love lost between 3 and 4 and they hate being confused with each other.

I hope this helps.

... in response to Iglesa ni Cristo/Iglesia de Cristo FYI, posted by Bob S. on Mar 20, 2001

Bob,
 Thanks for your time to look these up but none of these four churches are the same as the Iglesia ni Cristo which originated in the Philippines in the very early part of the 20th century.   The founder was Felix Manaldo(Manalo???) who had been raised Catholic and then converted to one or two protestant churches before starting his own church.  I think he was at one time Methodist?   He "modestly" claims that his life and works are prophesied in the Bible, but when you go to the verses quoted in Isaiah, it clearly is talking about King Cyrus the king of Cyria defeating Babylonia.  If there is any doubt, the realization of the prophesy is written in later chapters.  This is what I keep trying to be sure anybody involved with Filipinas understands - the Iglesia ni Cristo is totally unique and does not accept any outsiders.   Don't ignore this fact when getting involved with a lady in this church.   If you are getting serious with her, be frank and get it out in the open as soon as possible to avoid dissapointments later on.
                                SteveG

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

This church sounds like the penetente. They were also a branch of catholic that took a wide swing as well. I went to college in a town that was mostly Catholic. Very cool place, with a lot of history. The penetente are supposedly gone but, it is more of cult than a religion. No marraige outside of the chruch and all that. They also liked to beat themselves with whips while walking long distances. There were also ceremonial crucifixtions. Excuse any spelling pleaze ;)

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

I wonder if those Christians dressed in white that hang outside Super Markets with large donation cans are from this Iglisa ni Cristo Church. My opinion is that it would be a huge mistake to get seriously involved with a person from this Church especially if you got a mind of your own. What man in his right mind would fellow such nonsense? Just to make your Mahal happy? What about your own happiness??? It's doubtful that a Guy that have his own brief in Jesus can accept such a teaching, their house shall always be divided. It's best to be involved with a woman that share your briefs in Jesus Christ, we got our pick of countless good Pinays, so why pick a Pinay with a difficult religion full of difficulties??? It shouldn't take a fool to see that there's something wrong with this Church especially if the members refuse to read the bible for themselves. Let me tell you of a story..My ex America Pinay was the most gorgeous lady my eyes have ever beheld, but she was very religious, she didn't want us watching Tv, she didnt want us going to the movies, she spent most of her days judging judging and judging. She made my life miserable, like walking on egg shells, rules rules rules. So, Ummmmmmm think about it, do you want to spend your life with a woman always reminding you to follow manmade religion rules and laws???? I loved this American Pinay, she loved me, but I was just miserable with all these rules she wanted to enforce, she wanted to bound me, take away my freedom. My advice is don't walk but run fast from any Woman that's involved with such a Religion, if you marry her, your gonna be walking on egg shells all your days, with no peace. BTW, I know nothing about this Igilisa ni Cristo Church,  my opinion is based on what was posted in this tread. greg

... in response to Amazing, posted by greg on Mar 20, 2001

Why do you have an opinion if you know nothing about the church or members?

... in response to Re: Amazing, posted by curt on Mar 21, 2001

Where your email Addy? BTW, ever heard of own opinion based on what you read? If you don't like a person's post don't read it or reponse, it's that simple. I notice that you got a bad habit of flaming posters. Don't bother replying. greg

... in response to Amazing, posted by greg on Mar 20, 2001

n/t

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

for some time. I only had about five more "bible studies" to attend before I quit.
It is a very strict church. No dancing, gambling,no dating or marrying non church members. They follow the bible very strictly.
Their doctrine is made up that Jesus said only the members of "The Church of Christ" would be saved. Although my bible said "The Church of God"
They constantly preach about the Chatholic Church and it's evils. I'd say about 75% of their teaching is proving the Chatholic Church wrong. They constantly compare it to their church. It is almost hammered into your head.
They say that the date that their church was founded corresponds with thethe beginning of WW1 July 27, 1914. According to mathew 24:3-33and the begining of the end of the world. Anyway that is supposed to be their proof, that they are the one and only church that God accepts. You can not get to heaven but through their church.
Although I found the church members to be very loving and kind, most of them were living a lie. Wearing a mask to church, while outside of it doing things the church had forbidden. If you get cought you are put before a committee and judged and most likely thrown out forever. They have their own judge and jury.
I still have a few of their pamplets around the house, I think. One ex-member told me they were not always so strict. That in time, they made more and more rules. So many rules, in my opinion, it is impossible to follow them all, and be a "true" member.
-Lori

... in response to I attended that church...., posted by Lori on Mar 19, 2001

How are You?? I'm preparing for my trip next month. Check out Lonely Planet at Yahoo.com; A wealth of travel information. Many different travel forums at "the Thorntree" Lonely Planet website. I found a very good forum for Vietnam travel, click on South-East Asian(mainland) at Thorntree Lonely Planet. I really found this website to be loaded with travel tips for traveling to every country in the world especially the Philippines. Plus you can post for advice. :-) greg

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

Iglesia members can be quite fanatical about their religion. Like Midnighgirl said they will defend their religion no matter what. They are always gonna be right because they follow true Christianity according to the Bible. They don't celebrate any religious holidays because the Bible didn't say they can. Religious celebrations (ie Christmas, Easter etc) are considered sinful and paganistic. I've had pretty good friends that are Iglesias but I never dared discuss religious matters because it's just gonna end up with long sermons from them and they fall short of converting me. But of course just like other religions, there's gonna be the strict followers and the "loose" members. I knew some Iglesias that actually celebrated Christmas (secretly of course). They didn't want to convert out of Iglesia because they are gonna get berated and humiliated. And oh by the way, they have to give "mandatory" church donations. Any Iglesia members here, don't get offended. This is just based on my experience. If I'm wrong then I guess I'm wrong.

... in response to Iglesia Ni Cristo, posted by JoeBravo on Mar 19, 2001

Iglesia Ni Cristo is one powerful religious group here in PI.  Politicians, during election time, try to get the support of the INC, as it is believed that anyone supported by INC is a sure winner because of its wide-membership throughout the country.  

Iglesia members are very proud of the very their dome-like, immaculate churches.  To them, they had a share in putting this church in their locality, hence they contribute willingly everytime they go to church or their "Araw ng Samba" usually on Thursdays.

Members are encouraged to marry someone within the group.  However, if it is not possible, the INC member tries to convert his/her loved one.  Doctrine teachings are given prior to being a member.  From my observations on my INC friend, INC members follow strictly the rules, teachings lay down by their ministros, though still there are some loose members as in any other religious group.

Unlike Catholics, where we have special devotions to the Blessed Virgin Mary, various saints to intercede with our
petitions, INC believes only in Jesus Christ.

Just my thoughts on INC.... rgg

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

Greg,

 I had quite a bit of literature either my former fiancee (who was a member) or a minister of the Iglesia ni Cristo gave me.  Since this was back Oct 93, I don't remember for sure which of them actually gave me the info.  I do remember it consisted of a booklet with the history of the church dating back to the early 1900's, and a couple of magazines with a fairly detailed discussion of what they believe with Bible verses to illustrate(these are taken so far out of context to be almost funny if this wasn't so serious a subject - and I don't mean that to offend anyone with that statement.)   Also included was a listing of all the Iglesia ni Cristo Churches in the US at that time.  One thing I want to be sure to make clear is that even though "Iglesia ni Cristo" translates to “Church of Christ” in English, the Iglesia ni Cristo does not recognize the US Church of Christ as a Christian church.   In their eyes, they are going straight to he!! just like all the rest of us.   Sure you say, lots of people think their church is the only one, but that is just misguided individuals speaking.   In the case of the Iglesia ni Cristo, the church as an organization very clearly states in their literature that they are the ONLY Christian church on the face of the Earth.   Pretty weighty claim, huh??

 Have I ever told about being granted a personalized sermon in my honor at the Hong Kong Iglesia ni Cristo?  :)    Because of the strict rule against marrying non members, my Fiancee took me to meet her minister one day.   She introduced me as a friend but he smelled right away that there was more than friendship between us.   So the next evening (Wensday) we went to church and I sat on the front row while she went to the women's section in the back.   Guess what the topic was for the sermon?   You got it right!  "The Evils of Marrying a Non-Member"   The preacher stood immediately in front of me and got boiling mad, his face turned red as he ranted on and on about how any member who dared to marry outside the church was doomed to He!!.   First he quoted the verse that Paul wrote about not being unequally yoked.  That was predictable - but the verses in the Old Testament about women marrying beings in the beginning of time who were half-gods which resulted in such long lives and how after the great flood that would not happen any more was used to justify why Iglesia ni Cristo members shouldn't marry non members.  What does that have to do with me, I thought??????????????   Am I a semi-God???   My goodness!  LOL  At first my heart sank and then I got mad....I wasn't thinking very friendly thoughts towards him at that moment.  :)   After it was over, we left and she didn’t seem to be overly shaken by what he said, but later she was.   One thing I noticed that all their members I met had in common is that they refuse to discuss the Bible or read it for themselves.   It’s almost as if they are afraid to see what it really says for fear that they might discover they have been lied to.   When I found out my Fiancee didn’t even have a Bible I bought her one and she flat refused to read it.   It’s very frustrating to try to help someone who refuses to help themselves.

 If I can ever find this literature again, I would be glad to mail a copy to whoever would be interested.     Again, when I have written about that church here before it was from that literature, not my own opinion.  
                                     
    SteveG

... in response to Re: Midnightgirl, posted by SteveG on Mar 19, 2001

The Iglesia Ni Cristo church was formed in 1963 by a minister in the RP but they trace their roots back as the first church and only true church.  The main thing that they teach is that Christ was a man just like the rest of us.

They are well organized and all sermons are written at the main church and is read each Sunday by the minister.  The minister is not allowed to preach other than what is written for them to say each Sunday.  Each sermon is the same in all the churhes around the world each Sunday. They alway preach that you cannot marry a non member or you will be banned from the church.  

They also preach that when you die, your body stays in the ground until the return of Christ.  Members do have Bibles and do carry them to church with them and are encouraged to read the Bible with the interpretations that they have been indocrinated on members.

INC do not celebrate Christmas but rather have to give the money that they would spend on gifts to the Church.  They also have to pay their tithes each Sunday and in addition have to pledge a certain amount each year to be paid in December, but they have to give a certain amount each Sunday toward this pledge.  This explains the wealth of the church.  

In order to join INC, you have to go to Bible study and then pass a test (that traces the church back to the time of Christ  you are told that Christ formed the church but the church was hidden from man (?by the Catholic church) until it was re-discovered by father of the present head of the church in 1963.  When they pray each Sunday, God and Christ and the present head of the church are first in the prayer.

There is no doubt that this church is a cult and the members are encouraged to base their entire day around other members of the church.  The local church has pictures of the founding minister and his son who is the present head of the church.  Since the church teaches that Christ was a man, then Christ is a man just like the present head of the church. The members therefore equate the head of the church with Christ.

Despite the wealth of the church, they are not involved in any charitable activities.  All money is controlled by the main church in Manila.  The money is spent on building beautiful buildings that adorn the poor country side.

The church disciples the members frequently and many are expelled from the church to control other members.  The doors are even locked before services begins so that if you are late, you are not allowed to enter.

Regards

... in response to Re: Re: Midnightgirl, posted by Alvin on Mar 20, 2001

Alvin,
 I guess I made one of those nasty generalities that are always being discouraged here when I said the members did not have Bibles.  OK, let me restate, my fiancée and her 4 friends who were members did not have a Bible and totally trusted their minister to tell them what to believe.  To trust someone else with something so important is inconceivable to me.   Another thing that was unique with my exposure to the Iglesia ni Cristo is that since it was in HongKong where real estate is phenomenally expensive the church building was an old abandoned office complex from the looks of it rather than the usual lavish white buildings in the Philippines.
 Don't want to argue with you, but unless my memory is totally bad, this church started somewhere around 1910, give or take a few years, after the founder, Felix Manalo(Manaldo?) supposedly locked himself away for several days and had a vision telling him to found a church.   At least that's what the church literature I once had said.
  Yeah, I remember them locking the door when the service was ready to start.   They even had to bring attendance cards and leave them outside for validation as proof of their attendance.   These were picked up on the way out.

  The sermons may be the same all over the world but this guy was looking me straight in the eye the whole time, so as far as I'm concerned he was talking to me and my fiancée only.  

  Your point about the church being hidden from man between the time of Jesus and the founding of the Iglesia ni Cristo is something I would like to comment on.   As you implied, their major "enemy" is the Catholic Church which is so strong in the Philippines and it's rituals/beliefs that really can't be supported by anything in the Bible.   Mainly what I speak of is the idea that you need to have an intermediary such as Mary or a Saint to take your prayers to God rather than him listening to you directly.   There is nothing in the Bible anywhere that even indirectly states this.   So when someone grows up believing this and then the Iglesia ni Cristo hits them with the truth that it is not necessary, many totally lose faith in the Catholic church and put their complete trust in the Iglesia ni Cristo.   Of course the fact that these things aren't in the Bible doesn't mean Catholics aren't Christians - only that they are doing something that isn't necessary.  These are my observations on the subject at least.

 Anyway, the bottom line is that I am glad there were other issues between myself and my fiancée that eventually caused us to call off the engagement rather than just this church.   It would be terrible to lose someone over their misguided beliefs only.
                                      SteveG

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Midnightgirl, posted by SteveG on Mar 21, 2001

Steve, you are right about what you have said except the church was formed in 1963 by Felix Manalo who just died in the last 15? years.  They claimed that their church is the oldest church --(and only true church-formed by Jesus Christ, who was a man just like Felix Manalo)-- in the world but that is was "apothosized" by the "false church" and rediscovered by the Felix Manalo in 1963.  Only the members of the "true church" will go to heaven during the rapture.  Church members will remain in their graves until the rapture and then go to heaven at that time.  Which means that heaven is empty at this time.

I am sure that the minister did exactly what you said.  This is how they control their members with intimidation.  They do ad lib as you said.  They generally try to get the fiance to convert which helps their membership tremendously.  

Regards

Alvin

... in response to I agree with you but ...., posted by Alvin on Mar 21, 2001

Steve, I just did a seach and came up with the following site.  I believe that the present leader may have taken over in 1963 which I dated as the begining of the church.

Read the following:http://www.examiniglesianichristo.com

Regards
Alvin

... in response to OOPS, I may be wrong on the date,, posted by Alvin on Mar 21, 2001

Alvin,
 I'll forgive your error, just this once!   LOL   Yeah, I went to several sites today and refreshed my memory of the Iglesia ni Cristo too.  1963 was a significant date, so I see how it stuck in your mind.  :)   I couldn't remember the exact founding date either.   Anyway, the main thing is that they are bad news and to be avoided if possible.
                               SteveG

... in response to Re: OOPS, I may be wrong on the date,, posted by SteveG on Mar 22, 2001

was a significant date too.  LOL.

- Kevin

... in response to March 20, 1993 . . ., posted by kevin on Mar 22, 2001

The day Kevin dropped the fartomic bomb on the Philippines! ;o))

Dave H.

... in response to Re: OOPS, I may be wrong on the date,, posted by SteveG on Mar 22, 2001

I do not condemn the members for the most part, they are just trying to get to heaven the best way that they can from what they have been told.  However joining this church may reflect certain personlity traits such as dependency, insecurity or even arrogance since it is the "only true church" and do not recognize that other churches have a place in society.

Regards

Alvin

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Midnightgirl, posted by SteveG on Mar 21, 2001


I was 16 years old the first time I ever read a Plain Truth magazine.  It just blew my mind.  I read Herber Armstrong's book, "The Wonderful World Tomorrow". ,If what was said in the book was 100% true, we wouldn't have made it to Y2K.

What IS true (what the Woldwide Church of God said; publisher of ther Plain Truth) is that in the end times, Israel would again be a nation.  In the very end, there will be a revived Roman Empire, hence the European Union which is developing at an accelerating pace.

For many years the Plain Truth warned that the real perpetrator of unparralelled destruction and evil was going to be a "United States of Europe".  After a brief period of peace, prosperity and deceiving the world, the Antichrist (a powerful leader of the European Union and of the rest of the world beneath it)would unleash his true colors.

The Catholic church was regarded as a false church where the word of God had been corrupted.  Herbert Armstrong proclaimed to be a messenger.  His views were Anglo-centric.  That's why the United States (Manasseh) was the best place in the world to live.  Other nations of the British Commonwealth (the Anglo-Saxons of the world, descendents of Abraham, God's chosen people entrusted to spread the word) wore the brothers of Manessah.  Great Britain was referred to as Ephraim.  According to this doctrine, it explains the perpetual poverty in the Philippines.  The United States and Great Britain will be reduced to third-world status in the near future because the people that God has entrusted to spread the word (namely Anglo-Saxons and Europeans in developed nations), have chosen to reject God and choose the path of pagan, heathen, immoral lives.  Americans have come to place their trust in money instead of God.  God is about to revoke his blessings, and many Americans and Britons will be caught by surprise.

Thre is an interesting book by Armstrong called "The United States and Britain in Prophecy".

There are some paralells between the Worldwide Church of God (which the faithful, after the death of Herbert Armstrong, formed the Philadelphia Church; the WCG became corrupted) and Iglisia ni Cristo. The definition of hell is one of them.  The Catholic church being regarded as fundamentally corrupt is another.  A big difference between the two religions is that Iglisia ni Cristo originated in the Philippines, by someone of Malay stock.

The doctrine of the Plain Truth was that God chose Anglo-Saxons and other Europeans to spread the word all over the world.  It would be up to the native peoples to accept or reject Jesus Christ as their savior.  But to accept Christ, lots of ways, traditions, etc. would have to be abandoned.

- Kevin

... in response to Re: Midnightgirl, posted by SteveG on Mar 19, 2001

Gee Steve, that was a very interesting story. I know what Kevin, Dave H, or I would have done if we were in your shoes :-)

The barangay where my wife comes from is about 95% Iglesia Ni Cristo. There are only a handful of Catholic families living there, but everyone seemed to get a long just fine. I asked my wife and some of her family about the Iglesia, but they didn’t have anything negative to say about them. As we walked past their church on Easter Sunday morning, I said happy Easter to the members standing outside and they all smiled and returned the greeting, so they seemed friendly enough.

One thing I did notice is that the Iglesia have the largest and most extravagant churches I’ve seen over there. The big one in Cebu towers over the city like a behemoth. When we passed the small town of San Jose on Dinagat Island in a pumpboat, I saw this humongous domed temple perched up on the hill overlooking the town. It made me think of the Taj Mahal. It was some kind of Iglesia Ni Cristo temple and it really looked totally out of place for the surrounding countryside.

Ray

... in response to The Sermon from Hell, posted by Ray on Mar 19, 2001

Ray,
  I'm not sure which course of action you are referring to if you, Kevin or DaveH had been there in my honored position with the fire breathing preacher about 5 feet away condemning me with such enthusiasm.  Hmmm   It would have to be either a direct attack on his scrawny little body or a more subversive "Gas Warfare".  LOL   Trust me, I think I left finger prints in the hymnal and came EXTREMELY close to clubbing him in the head with it.   But rationality won out as I realized I probably wouldn't make a very good impression if I beat up the preacher in the pulpit.  :o)

  As to the other more subtle attack method, I was disarmed at the moment due to a generous dosage of charcoal pills.   Gotta make a good first impression you know?!   Nothing like charcoal and Bean-O to give you that gentle assurance that you got it all under control.  LOL

  You’re absolutely right about the people who belong to this church being friendly.   All the members I met were very friendly people.   Even this same minister was very friendly to me in his office the day before, but he was very forward about saying I was going to he!! and that everything I believed was completely wrong.  

  I don’t pretend to have all the answers, I just want to give guys advance warning about this church before they get involved with a Filipina thinking it is no big deal, only to find themselves backed into a corner with no solution after they are emotionally involved.     Frankly, I don’t understand why these ladies even try to have penpals or date outside their church if they know that nothing permanent can come of it??

  The extravagant white buildings do seem inappropriate in a country with such poverty, don't they?   Such self-glorifying waste speaks volumes to me about where this churches true interest lies.

                        SteveG

... in response to Re: The Sermon from Hell, posted by SteveG on Mar 20, 2001

Bravo(clap clap clap clap) very goooooood Post lol

... in response to Re: The Sermon from Hell, posted by SteveG on Mar 20, 2001

Hi Steve,

Sorry to hear that you were temporarily disarmed. ;o) I think you did a good job controlling yourself. In that case, I would have been tempted to trip him with my size 11's or hit him with the hymnal too. ;o))

I felt the same way about seeing the extravagant Iglesia Ni Cristo building, each time I drove past on a tricycle. It was made even more brilliant against the backdrop of poverty. It would have been impressive standing next to my church in the USA.

Dave H.

... in response to Re: The Sermon from Hell, posted by SteveG on Mar 20, 2001

We would have been shooting fireballs from our arses...literally. ;o))

Dave H.

... in response to Gas Attack with Possible Ignition Source..., posted by Dave H on Mar 20, 2001

Now, Dave, that would be impolite since the ladies sit in the back of the Church!  :)

                                   SteveG

... in response to The Sermon from Hell, posted by Ray on Mar 19, 2001

Ray,

I would have brought my lighter and watched him try to escape the blue flames. ;o)

Since the Iglesia Ni Cristo is the "true" church...it would seem that, if I change my name to "Jesus," then the Bible would be all about me. If I'm going to Hell as they say, they will be sitting on the jeepney or Bachelor Express bus next to me.

Dave H.

... in response to Re: Midnightgirl, posted by SteveG on Mar 19, 2001

When I started reading the Plain Truth, it fundamentally shook up all I'd been taught in regards to Christianity and the true teachings.  The Plain Truth was the true messenger.  Since Herbert Armstrong died, his church became corrupted.

Now the Philadelphia Trumpet is spreading thwe word about the end of civilization as we know it.  It claims to be reveal the true word and prophesies of the Bible.

Well this Church is based on the premise that's God's true people are Anglo-Saxons.  Hence why the English speaking world has the best standard of living (God's bounty).  Anglo-Saxons are said to be Abraham's descendents.  But the United States and Great Britain is doomed because of all the filfth, immorality and false gods in the western world now as well as the rest of the world.

The European Union is growing evil empire according to the Philadelphia Trumpet.  You don't hear much about the European Union as being a threat to the U.S. or the world.  The European Union is now considered as almost as good a place to live as the United States, and for a brief period during its pinnicle will be better than the United States.

Then the Antichrist, head of the European Union, after deceiving the entire world, will unleah his true colors.  The Rapture has yet to take place.  But those who are saved will be spared from evil and suffering that has never been experienced through the history of mankind.

According to the Philadelphia Trumpet, published by the Philadelphia Church of God, only those that heed it's teachings will be saved (of which the vast majority of those saved would be Anglos, except for those non-Anglos that "truly" accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.

Roman Catholics are going to hell.  Any religion that celebrates Christmas is a false, heretical religion according to that church.  If what is said in Philadelphia Trumpet is 100% true, very few people in the world aren't going to hell.

Speaking of hell, to that church, the definition of "hell" has a different meaning.  But I'll explain what I know of it some other time.

- Kevin

... in response to The Plain Truth and the Philadelphia Tru..., posted by kevin on Mar 19, 2001

"If what is said in the Philadelphia Trumpet is 100% true..."

-Kevin

Hey Kev,

They would be lucky if they were 50% (coin toss) right. What was their stand on Y2K? Stan Johnson and The Prophecy Club just about bought the farm on that one. 100%...Even the National Enquirer and I are not that good! But I will say that the Anti-Christ is Hillary Clinton, at least to the man who is married to her. I'm starting to feel sorry for Bill....NOT! :o))

I will dance and speak in tongues for your dollars. Wearing the purple G-String will cost you extra. ;o))

Swami Dave H.

... in response to The Real Truth..., posted by Dave H on Mar 20, 2001

Trust in the Lord, not in man!

You've heard the old saying; "You can't take it with you." That is because God does not want or need your money. Man does.

Just my thoughts,

Dave H.

... in response to Trust..., posted by Dave H on Mar 20, 2001

nt

... in response to Trust..., posted by Dave H on Mar 20, 2001

I am just a simple Christian and don't proclaim to be a messenger of God. Although, I am related to Jehanne d'Arc (Joan of Arc) on my mother's side. :o) I believe that it is better to read the Bible for oneself, before you blindly take someone else's word for it. Many times quotes are taken out of context, thus giving it entirely new meaning. Sometimes things are simply made up, without Biblical proof. Read, ask questions, seek different interpretations. Many of these groups are well trained and focus on one's doubts, seeming to provide all of the answers. This is especially effective when one is going through tough times. I have seen numerous marriages break up, when one spouse converts to a new religion and the other refuses. Is this what God really had in mind? To break up marriages and families. I don't believe so. The blame for the marital problems are always placed on the spouse who refuses to convert.

One thing that many of these churches have in common is that they are often founded by and/or ruled by one person and his initials aren't J.C. The reigns are often passed down from parent to child. Every religion believes that they are the "true" religion. If they didn't, who would want to belong and why would there be a need for their existence? There are some things that they preach that I am in agreement with, other things I am not. I certainly don't believe the use of intimidation and fear to "imprison" members. Obviously...other people do, as they are quite successful. Am I absolutely positive that these different groups are wrong in their beliefs? No. But I am willing to take my chances that they are and will find out in the end.

Again, only my beliefs. You must live your own life and follow the path you believe to be correct.

Dave H.

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

Greg,

Try the search engine at excite.com. I found a lot of sites about Iglesia Ni Cristo, that I couldn't using other search engines. Sites are listed that offer perspectives from different viewpoints.

Dave H.

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

Hello Greg,

Mabuti! Thanks for the message. By the way, i am not really an Iglesia ni Cristo but i am a Catholic, i know this religion co'z i had a friend of mine, he is an Iglesia ni Cristo member. What i know this, is that they defend their religion no matter what, you cannot marry a woman if you will not converted to their religion. During the mass , the men and women separate seats, they had a particular clothes to wear during the mass, i guess the women wore a white clothes then the men wore formal attire  that's all as what he had said to me. In fact he wanted me join but i disagree co'z my parent's wouldn't allow me enter to another religion.

That's all i could talk to you about this religion.