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I have been lurking for some time now, and finally decided to join the board. I am a 48 year old African American divorcee with non-custodial children. I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent and average appearance. I am told that I look younger than my years, for whatever that's worth.

Like many others, the combination of my personal experiences with my ex, and the experiences and observations of my friends, co-workers, etc. has convinced me to explore the possibilities of a "foreign" relationship. I have dug through the archives and have really appreciated the advice, knowledge, wisdom, and personal experiences provided by members of this board.

I am not completely turned off by AW, but I cannot imagine ever marrying one again. Like others have said, I do not find most AW in my "age group" particularly attractive. Further, I find that many do not want a good husband, but rather a "dependable friend" and occasional lover. I have no problem with that. If that's what they want, they can have it.

I registered on the Latin board, and that is where my primary interest lies.  However, I am also particularly interested in women from the Philippeans.  I have read some really interesting posts here, and it seems like there are fewer "horror stories" with relationships with these beautiful women.  In addition, there appears to be a language advandage that offsets the distance disadvantage.

At this point, I am in "exploration mode" and have a completely open mind.  Anybody have experience with both "cultures?"  Any insight would be most appreciated.  BTW, I am not trying to start a "flame war."  Just looking to learn.  Peace!

... in response to Curious Newbie, posted by Intrepid on Mar 8, 2003

[This message has been edited by Dave H]

Hi Intrepid,

It's great to have you joining in here! You may be up on the fence now, but I'm sure you will be jumping off soon to begin the adventure of your life. I suggest that you write to both Filipinas and Latinas. If you can, check out both Latin America and the Philippines. You won't really know what is right for you until you see for yourself.

I am very happily married to a Filipina (1 1/2 years) and divorced from a Latina (American born). I have little experience with Filipinas, but was involved with Latinas for the past 30 years. I never had a Latina pen pal, but most of the Latinas I’ve dated were born in Latin America. Some were raised here in South Florida, while others were still wet from crossing the Rio Grande or the Straights of Florida on a raft. ;o)))  A real mixture!

My experiences:

Well, first let me say that I don't consider myself an expert by any means, especially with Filipinas…or women in general. LOL I am really generalizing here so I hope no one takes my post as gospel. There are some great Latinas and Filipinas that P-L members have been involved with. There have also been some bad! My luck with Latinas was not so good over the years, so I will come across as being pro-Filipina. These are just my opinions, based on my personal experiences and those of friends, relatives, and neighbors.

I have found many similarities between Latin American and Philippine cultures. Not surprising since the Philippines was a Spanish colony for almost 400 years. The Philippines seems quite Spanish, with some Asian and a touch of American culture mixed in. Filipinas usually speak good English, unlike most Latinas. I speak Spanish fairly well, but found communication sometimes frustrating with Latinas…something was often lost in the translation. Sometimes Filipinas will not understand your point at first. It is usually because they speak English by the dictionary and are not very familiar with most American slang and double entendres. This can cause some misunderstandings, as well as some hilarious moments. But, they are fast to catch on and learn.

I find Filipinas to have some of the elements of the Latin temperament and character, but milder and more rational. The jealousy or anger of Filipinas and Latinas is most different in the way it is expressed.  Latinas tend to unleash their anger and will argue and fight. While Filipinas more often hold their anger in and tampo (sulk). Filipinas are the best of both worlds, a blend of Spanish fire and Asian cool. I have found Filipinas to be more jealous than the average AW, but milder and more calm and rational than most Latinas. My Filipina wife would never think of causing a scene in public, with some Latinas...the bigger the audience the better! I find many Latinas to be game players, which I no longer have the time or patience for! 99% of the time, I am cool, calm, and laid back and don’t like to stir up my 1%! Some Latinas have told me that they perceive a man that is too agreeable and kind as being weak. Then they will take advantage of him. They may protest, but they prefer things a little unsure, unstable, and exciting…”macho bad boy.” It is like Nathan once said, ”Latinas tend to be outraged when their boyfriends or husbands cheat, but think they are whimps if they don't try.” A quote from a Latina friend, referring to her womanizing, physically abusive ex-husband that she still lives, “If I am going to live with a man who treats me bad, it might as well be the father of my children. Besides, he is so charismatic and exciting!” Many Latin men create problems or act difficult just to keep their women in line. Nothing bad usually, just little things to keep life uncertain and the women on their toes. If the woman wants to do something the man may disagree, even if it was something that he also wanted to do. Not for me! I was looking for a woman that I could be honest with, was fun to be with, calm, simple, family-oriented and DEFINATELY not a game player. It seems that I  got all of the best in my wife. Many of the other guys have found just what they were looking for in Filipina and Asian wives on P-L also.

Most of the Latinas that I know are much more materialistic than the average Filipina. To a Latina, displays of wealth and power often makes a man more attractive. Filipinas on the other hand, may find such displays offensive. Many just want to live a simple life with the man they love. A man who is kind, faithful, God fearing, and can provide the necessities for his family. Looks and large age differences are often unimportant to them.

Most of the Filipinas that I know don't really have a "past" that would include anything more than handholding or a kiss on the cheek. Often you will be "The First." Many remain virgins until they marry. Latinas tend to flaunt what they have, leaving little for the imagination.  Even young virgins often look like ho’s. Brazilians even more so. Sex or the image of it, sells! I’m sure in the more rural areas, the people are more conservative. As Jeff mentioned, there is a lot of talk about “bubble buts, big hooters, sexy way the women dance, etc” on the Latin board, but is seldom seen here. Well, except about Windmill Boy’s Japanese friend! ;o))) It is easy to “fall in love” 20 times a day, sitting by a pool in Cali. Filipinas are very conservative in manner and dress, especially while in public. A “Filipina bikini” consists of a pair of shorts and a T-shirt. In the Philippines it is easier to use the “big head” in my opinion. PDA’s (public displays of affections, kissing, etc.) are uncommon in the Philippines. At least in the smaller cities where relatives or friends may witness it. In private with their husband…that is another matter! ;o)))

Filipinas, like Latinas, can be very beautiful! They come in many different sizes, but most tend to be small and petite, with black hair. Some Filipinas look very Spanish, while others very Chinese...and everything in between.  As with Latinas, they range from very dark to very light skinned.

I am very happily married and have never been treated so well in my entire life by Latinas or AW. This may be due in part, to the way most Filipinas and Asians are raised to think about the group or family first and themselves last. Mostly, it is just my wife's nature. Many Latinas today seem to have more of a "me first" attitude (not as much as with many AW's). Unfortunately, this attitude is also becoming more common in the Philippines, especially among some of the younger ladies.

Good Luck!

Dave H.

... in response to Welcome to P-L Asian!, posted by Dave H on Mar 8, 2003

Dave.......The last time i posted my good and bad list of comparison for latinas and filipinas, a guy from the latin board who shall remain nameless started a flame war, and we insulted each other for 2 days until i finally said, hey, peace buddy, i like latinas too, i just prefer pinays, more, then we agreed to disagree.

... in response to Ur lucky, posted by outwest77 on Mar 9, 2003

Hi Outwest,

I tried to post a Filipina VS Latina post without pissing anyone off, which is hard to do. I admit that I am biased in my opinions, based on my experiences over the years. There are always exceptions to every rule or generalization. I respect the Latina lovers choice and I am not about to go crap on their board. What's right for me is wrong for someone else. Latinas and Filipinas are not right for everyone. To each their own! There is absolutely nothing wrong with either Latinas or Filipinas in general. In fact, they have many traits in common. I know some great ones and also a few bad ones. I am much more familiar with Latinas than I am with Filipinas or AW's. After 30 years, I was just ready for a change in my life. My wife was just what I was dreaming of.

Dave H.

... in response to Ur lucky, posted by outwest77 on Mar 9, 2003

I really appreciated your post about latinas vs. pinays. I translated it and sent it to my novia in Peru because it echoed some things we have talked about. However, I have not experienced public arguments with a latina. I wonder if that happens among those born here? My understanding of latin culture is that a public display of anger is very bad manners and will make people think poorly of you. But if you're a princess, why would you care, I guess.

I've also enjoyed the comments made comparing the types of comments made between the boards: bubble butts, etc. Glad someone is keeping to the high ground! ;-)

... in response to No flames here!, posted by surfscum on Mar 9, 2003

Hi Surfscum,

I never worried too much about the public arguments or PDR's (Public Displays of Rage)...it was the private ones that almost got me killed. It really depends on the lady. I've known Peruvians who were very calm, while my neighbor is intense and ready to go at the drop of a hat. I have more experience with ladies from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Venezuela,the Dominican Republic, Colombia, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and Brazil. A friend of mine is Puerto Rican/Colombian which would seem to make her a crazy woman, yet she is as calm and passive as can be.

Dave H.

... in response to PDR's, posted by Dave H on Mar 9, 2003

Dave,

Would running over your husband in a Mercedes be considered a PDR?  Clara Harris is a Latina, I think.

Jim

... in response to Re: PDR's, posted by Jimbo on Mar 10, 2003

She's a Colombian. And that's classic PDR.

- Jeff

... in response to Yes, Jimbo, posted by Jeff S on Mar 10, 2003

N/T

... in response to Welcome to P-L Asian!, posted by Dave H on Mar 8, 2003

Great Summation Dave!  You really know how to break in a "Newbie" the right way!  :)

Well I don't speak Spanish and I do not like public displays of anger.  Don't really like "games" either.  But I understand what you mean about "falling in love 20 times a day at the swimming pool!"  LOL!  That was a GOOD one!!!

I think I will write both Filipinas and Latinas, as well as visit both places.  Although I am in no hurry to get married, I do want to start narrowing down my choices/options.  When I do meet that special one, Filipina or Latina, both she and I will know that I am "ready."

Thanks again for the very informative post!  It looks like I have found some new friends on P-L!  Peace!

... in response to Welcome to P-L Asian!, posted by Dave H on Mar 8, 2003

Touche  Dave

You  got  me   ha ha ha.  

But she really  doesn't  have  anything  out  of  the  ordinary  I  guess.  I  Just  appreciated  what  I  could  see  from underneat  her    jacket  now  and  then.  

The  thing  that  makes  me  really  happy about the  Japanese  is  that  I  learned  that almost all  of  them  can  adapt  well to the  cold.  As  it  was  snowing  in  even  the  southern  cities  of  Japan.  That  means  she  or  any other  Japanese  woman  might  be  just as  happy  in  Boston  (favorite American  city culturally  so  far)   as  in  the southern  climates of  the  USA.   I  cant  afford to live  here  in  Santa  Barbara  but I  really  do enjoy  the  perfect  weather  here year round.  Alot  more  flexibility  that  the  filipinas  possibly.

Windmill boy

... in response to Re: Welcome to P-L Asian!, posted by Windmill Boy on Mar 8, 2003

Hi WB,

LOL My wife likes our hot South Florida weather. The temps here are usually about the same as in the Philippines. It was friggin' 88F/31C here today. 91F/32.7C a few days ago. I spend most of my time complaining about the heat. ;o))) I guess Filipinas eventually adapt to the cold winter weather in most of the US, but I hear many of them complaining until they do. LOL

Dave H.

... in response to Santa Barbara Weather Is Nice!, posted by Dave H on Mar 8, 2003

Hi Dave,

Great job on the newbie post!  Your Latina experience really shows.  Maybe you should spend more time on the Latin board and be the next Houndog over there - NO! just kidding :-)

Re, cold weather - After an unusually long, cold and snowy winter in New England, the worst in perhaps 10 years (while last year was unusually easy; mild with little snow), Sally is not complaining.  But she's talking about living in the Philippines more often than she ever has before!

Jim

... in response to Re: Weather, posted by Jimbo on Mar 10, 2003

Hi Jim,

I think I will just stick around here! :o)  They don't need me over there hanging out in the dogpound. I wish the Latin Board guys the best!

Dave H.

... in response to Re: Weather, posted by Jimbo on Mar 10, 2003

... we've been hearing so much about. Those evil corporations forcing us to drive huge SUVs releasing greenhouse gasses. Hey, I have a good idea, let's raise taxes, that'll fix it.

- Jeff

Sorry, just ranting about our jerk-off governer, just a little left of Karl Marx, but hey, he's got Barbara Streisand and Sean Penn on his side.

- Jeff

... in response to It must be that Global Warming..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 10, 2003

Hey Jeff, if you ever do decide to run for governor here in California, you got my vote :-)

Ray

... in response to Jeff for Guv!, posted by Ray on Mar 10, 2003

Yeah? Great, that makes oh, maybe 200 of us conservatives out here on the left coast. I can see the Dem ads now, "Would you vote for a white male lifetime NRA member?" I should lose in a landslide. LOL! Maybe if I gave all my speeches in Spanish... and toss in a bit of Vietnamese. hmmm?

- Jeff

... in response to Re: Jeff for Guv!, posted by Jeff S on Mar 11, 2003

Here's one that passed. This is from the Bill Handel show on KFI radio:

-----
THE CREMATION OF REASON
By Ken Gallacher
With Apologies to Robert Service

The northern lights have seen queer sights
But the queerest they ever did see
Was that day at the bay, with all the leftists and gays
When they rioted and looted for peace

Now San Francisco is a mecca you know,
For anti-establishment freaks
There’s dead-heads galore, and supporters of Gore
And “One Planet, One People, Please”

So they came to Height-Ashbury, and they came to hate Bush
And Powell and Rumsfeld too
And they marched in a throng, and they sang a few songs
About anti-war gobbledygook

And then to make clear how much they love peace
They threw rocks and bottles at all the police
Broke into stores, smashed windows and doors
And stole VCR’s and TV’s

Ah, the northern lights have seen queer sights
But the queerest they ever did see
Was that day at the bay, with all the leftists and gays
When they rioted and looted for peace
----

... in response to Re: Re: Jeff for Guv!, posted by Ray on Mar 12, 2003

.

... in response to Re: Jeff for Guv!, posted by Jeff S on Mar 11, 2003

Hey Jeff,

I had a poem for you but it won't pass Patrick's cussometer. I'll have to put it up on Nipa Hut...

Ray

... in response to It must be that Global Warming..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 10, 2003

...Barbara Streisand and Sean Penn, who needs enemies! LOL

Hi Jeff,

Please go ahead and rant! I'd like to stuff that whole pack of leftist Hollywood celebrities into a huge Lincoln Navagator Limo and force that candy-ass Martin Sheen to drive it off a cliff! Cows farting for McDonalds in Latin America does more to effect greenhouse gases. Whoops better not tell them that or people will be paying $10 for a Big Mac.

Dave H.

... in response to With friends like..., posted by Dave H on Mar 10, 2003

to visit his good buddy Saddam and spend the war hunkered down in a bunker with the poor, misunderstood dictator.  Don't forget Alec Baldwin who said he would leave the country if Bush were elected, but somehow hasn't found his way to the border.

... in response to Better he should drive it..., posted by surfscum on Mar 11, 2003

Where do you hail from? I'm in surf city.

I was hoping Alec would clear out along with his buddy Babs (Streissand) but no luck so far.

- Jeff S.

... in response to With friends like..., posted by Dave H on Mar 10, 2003

A big report came out today that's all over talk radio. It said that in the LA Basin, there's more pollutants coming from cosmetics, paint drying, and household products, than all the cars in the entire state. Amazing.

Another interesting fact came out recently: Cars account for less than 1% of the greenhouse gasses on the planet and half of that is from 10% of the older cars - and guess what, very, very few of those are even in the United States- so all this Ariana Huffington nonsense about vehicle emissions in the US, is targeted to reduce 1/2 of 1% of the greenhouse gas emissions.

On top of that, Global warming is the result of computer models, not actual data collected. They've been unable to verify any change at all in the actual temperature measurements on planet earth. Even if they did, who's to say it has anything at all to do with man's activities. Mt Pinatobo (hey, I had to throw something in this post that related to Asia) when it erupted a few years ago, in a few seconds released more Carbon Dioxide that all of man's activities since cave man days.

All these ex-hippy legilators out here in California are driving Lincoln Navigators and Cadillac Escalades, at taxpayer expense, of course, and of course, they're exempt from the registration fees that they just tripled, to between $500 & $1000 a year for newer cars.

- Jeff

... in response to Re: With friends like..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 10, 2003

[This message has been edited by Dave H]

Hey Jeff,

All of those movie stars and ex-hippy legislators want us to ride the bus...while they have garages full of gas guzzling limos, luxury cars, exotic sports cars, and SUV's. They think that they are better than the rest of us. I say, make those commie pinko bastards ride the bus!!!

I rode the bus the other day when I dropped my truck off at a repair shop. I should have rode my bicycle or waited for my son to pick me up! I waited for about 45 minutes in the hot Florida sun, without shade or a bus in sight. Hard to believe since this was during normal business hours, on one the busiest routes. It was also next to a huge, extremely busy Indian bingo complex (I guess the senior citizen bingo players either drive or ride the private bingo and casino buses). Several people walked off in disgust, calling people on their cell phones, asking for a ride. The bus finally showed up and let off a passenger. The remaining passengers and I couldn't read the route number sign on the bus, as it appeared to be lighted to display two routes at once. As we were stepping on, someone asked the driver where she was going. The driver was yaking away on her cell phone. She paused, turned toward us with a look of disgust on her face, then yelled out, "Either get on the buzzz or get the hell off!" We stepped off a bit shocked and she slammed the door shut. She took off and almost ran over a guy still standing close to the door. A few people cursed in Spanish. I felt that the meaning might have been lost on the driver. Being the only native English speaker among the passengers, I ran along side the bus for a few yards until it pulled away, yelling for the driver to shove the bus up her big fat ass! Fortunately, a second bus pulled in a minute or two later. This bus driver was very courteous and helpful. It turned out that the first driver had many complaints, but naturally, still had a job. She had been about 30 minutes late when we tried to board. Our bus kept catching up to her, so we would stop for a few minutes to allow her get ahead. Several times when we were close, I saw her blow past a few bus stops. I saw the shocked looks on passengers faces when we pulled over to let them board. Several were very upset and asked our driver what was going on with the first bus. I took a pamphlet and called in a complaint...knowing full well that it will probably do little good.

I am amazed at how much better the public (private) transportation system is in the Philippines. Even in smaller cities with mainly jeepneys, tricycles, and tricycads.

Dave H.

... in response to Another One Bites The Bus..., posted by Dave H on Mar 10, 2003

Sounds like Daytona

Next time ride the bike, it is better LOL

... in response to Re: Another One Bites The Bus..., posted by Peter Lee on Mar 12, 2003

[This message has been edited by Dave H]

Hi Peter,

I should have taken my mt. bike in the back of the truck! I figured on only being at the shop for about an hour. I decided on getting some more work done. It was a nice day so I started walking. After about 3 miles in the hot sun, I realized I had another 10 to go.

I usually ride my recumbant. You can check out some photos of it at: http://129.79.22.9/linear/ Just click on "David H's decked out Linear!" It really wasn't decked out in the photos, as it was missing my GPS, cd stereo system, cycle computer/altimeter/thermometer, inclinometer, heart rate monitor, Dazzer (Dog deterant) Ortlieb panniers and a few other items. LOL The altimeter and inclinometer don't do me much good in South Florida, but come in handy when I ride (push) it around the Smoky Mountains. :o))) It sure hauls ass down the mountains...sometimes I catch up to the motorcycles. I need much better brakes, disk brakes! If only I had aircon for the summer! ;o))) OH...I keep my mt. bike pretty basic, just a cycle computer.

Dave "High Tech" H.

... in response to Re: With friends like..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 10, 2003

[This message has been edited by Jimbo]

Easy Jeff,

Time for some Qui Gong :-)

Those are big fees.  We've got local excise taxes here at 2.5% on the valuation but the registration fees are low.

I like those Escalades - at night the dashboard is lit up with controls like a cockpit.  I might have to trade in my 351ci Bronco!

Jim "12 mpg" bo

... in response to With friends like..., posted by Dave H on Mar 10, 2003

They could always stick catalytic converters on their butts. The Japanese would redesign the cattle to be low emissions.

... in response to Re: With friends like..., posted by stefang on Mar 10, 2003

N/T

... in response to Curious Newbie, posted by Intrepid on Mar 8, 2003

Mr Intrepid...

I am actually half Puerto Rican and was born and raised (for 29 of my 33 years) in Miami, Florida. I have dated MANY Latinas and have known many more... and although they were "Americanized", I think that Filipinas generally have more respect for their mates... and also value the family bond much more. The Latinas that I have known are much more temperamental than any Filipinas that I have ever come in contact with. Again, this is just an observation.  Good Luck.

Joe

... in response to Curious Newbie, posted by Intrepid on Mar 8, 2003

and welcome aboard!

Hopefully Dave H will fill you in on his experience on both sides of the fence.

I have no experience with relationships with Latinas but do run a company with 50 Mexican women as assemblers. In addition I spend from two to four weeks in Mexico every year on both business and pleasure. I've seen some incredibly beautiful Mexicanas, there isn't one I'd ever consider dating if I were single. Not when you compare them to what's available in Asia.

Now I know nothing about Colombian or Philippine women, the two main happy huntin' grounds for most foreign bride seekers, other than what I read here and on the Latin board. But comparing Mexico and Japan is no contest, at least from my viewpoint. I hate to get into specifics of how well I'm taken care of, because guys either don't believe me or they get POed at how poorly they, themselves get treated at home.

I think the thing you need to ask yourself is waht's most important to you. Lots of posts on the Latin board seem to be fixated on physical characteristics, bubble buts, big hooters, sexy way the women dance, etc., while on this board they tend to be about intangibles. In fact, Ray usually suggests to pick the ugly ones. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down people with specific physical traits on the wish list, I just never had a wish list at all, just went looking for my soul mate, wherever and whoever she might be.

Anyway, best of luck to you and hope you keep posting!

- Jeff

PS. Here's some of us: http://www.geocities.com/jeffsatpl/

... in response to Hi Intrepid, posted by Jeff S on Mar 8, 2003

Thanks Jeff!  Hey those are excellent photos!  Looks like you guys and gals have an excellent "club."  Perhaps I will become a "member" some day.

I hope you decide to post some of your experiences, despite what SOME guys think.  I suspect that there are many of us who will be most interested in your story.  Remember that "still waters run deep," so many more "lurkers" might appreciate your story more than you realize!

As for what is most important to me, I would have to say both "intangibles" and physical appearance.  The women in your photo album are truely gorgeous (no disrespect to wives intended).  Based on what I have seen and what I have read, it looks like both can be found in Asia.

Thanks for the welcome mat!  I find this board both informative and entertaining.  I'll be around!  Peace!

... in response to Re: Hi Intrepid, posted by Intrepid on Mar 8, 2003

Well, many of my experiences are posted here, mostly in bits and pieces. Sometimes I stop myself when I feel like I'm being redundant. As my daughter says, "Daaaaaaaaaad, I've heard that story a hundred times." LOL.

- Jeff

... in response to Curious Newbie, posted by Intrepid on Mar 8, 2003

[This message has been edited by outwest77]

Hi Intrepid,

Outwest here, welcome to the board, hopefully you are beginning a journey which will bring you much happiness, the guys on the board are a combination of engaged and married, or like me, walking the fence, we all love asian women here, mostly filipina lovers, but some chinese, vietnam thai, seekers.

I just returned from 2months in The Phils, i too, was a latin lover, but decided for many reasons to go to the phils instead, primarily language, they all speak english there, latin america you should really know spanish, and the phils women are like nothing you have ever seen.
Its dirt cheap as they say to stay there, and you are amongst 7000 islands,

  This was my third trip this year, 1st in april for one month, 2nd in august for 2 months, and this one in december till 2 days  ago, I am fortunate to be able to stay there longer than most guys so i have spent the entire time getting to know one girl, and its a fabulous place , the phils, you will never regret going there

... in response to Welcome, posted by outwest77 on Mar 8, 2003

Thanks Outwest!  I intend to visit the Phils just as soon as I can afford to.  I "feel you" about speaking Spanish in LA.  

Wow!  It must be nice to be able to spend that much time in the Phils!  I won't be able to spend that much time there unless I hit the lottery or something!  :)

In any event, keep the good posts coming!  This board has really given me the motivation to get "on" the fence.  Thanks for the welcome!  Peace!

... in response to Curious Newbie, posted by Intrepid on Mar 8, 2003

Hey Intrepid, don't feel alone, we are ALL told that we look younger than our years (ROFL!)

I can't tell you if you'll have better luck in Latin America or Asia. Have you done any traveling overseas? Why not try to take a vacation in both places and see what you think? Once you get past the plane ride, the Philippines is dirt cheap for a vacation spot.

Ray

... in response to Welcome Aboard!, posted by Ray on Mar 8, 2003

Hey Ray, thanks for the welcome!  Haven't been fortunate enough to go "overseas" yet.  I guess the Bahamas does not really qualify.  :)  I would love to take a vacation in both places, and if fact intend to do so.  The big question is when!  I have a "travel kitty" building and hope to go somewhere this summer.  I can handle the plane ride.  I wonder how this Iraq and North Korea "thing" will impact air fares, safety, and travel to the PI.  With the help of this board, I hope to narrow my choices (for a vacation) by mid-spring, or thereabouts, and finally get off the fence.  Thanks again!