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I know we've been over this before :(  But everytime I make up my mind, something new pops up and messes with me!

So I get this letter... Yeah, yeah... I know...

It's addressed to my mother, from my former in-laws.  Basicly it states that they are worried sick about Ayesa who hasn't written them in forever, not even to tell them that she made it back here in December.  It goes on to say that their worry has only increased since I have never responded to the two letters they have sent me.  They are assuming that we--Ayesa and I--are pissed at them--Maybe her, I'm over it--and just want to know what's going on.  She made a desperate plea "as a mother..." to my mother to at least tell what was going on... "no matter what the circumstance"

Ok, here's the problem.  Mom would've replied.  She would have replied herself or insisted that I did.

I know that I'm supposed to have this "Screw them... I've been wronged..." attitude, but I just can't help thinking that maybe, just maybe, they really don't have an idea what's gone on here.  Maybe they have no idea that their daughter would ever disobey them and seek a divorce--Annulment for the record--that they forbid.  Maybe Ayesa never really told anyone anything except that she was miserable here.  I mean other than that, what was there to tell?  I never did anything juicy.  The worst I ever did was yell and eventually give up!

I'm torn between giving them what I feel they deserve--the same lack of information I was forced to deal with for three years!--and honoring what I know would have been my mother's wishes.

I'm not obsessing over this, it's just on my mind.  I have a wonderful friend that I have been corresponding with since December and plan to meet in person as soon as I get Mom's estate settled.  Mom's death not withstanding, I am happier than I have ever been now that I am with someone who makes it obvious that they care about me.

I am thinking of it from that perspective, NOT theirs.

Advice is Appreciated... Scold Away :)

LOL

Keep the Faith

H

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

Hi Gerlie!

As Howard's trusted friend and confidant, how do you think he should handle this situation? I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

Thanks,

Ray

... in response to Question for Gerlie, posted by Ray on Jun 25, 2002

nm

... in response to Question for Gerlie, posted by Ray on Jun 25, 2002

Ray,

I think it is fair enough that Howard will write a letter to Ayesa's Parents. A letter that contains the truth about what happened. They maybe disappointed to know about the annulment but it can ease the worries that they're feeling right now. Whatever they have done to her, if they force her to marry Howard for whatever reasons still they're Ayesa's parents and not hearing from both of them is such a burden.
But for the record I am a little jealous in a way..:-)

Gerl

... in response to Re: Question for Gerlie, posted by Gerlie on Jun 25, 2002

Thanks Gerl! I think we all knew what Howard's decision would be. He's a good guy and you both sound very lucky to have found each other. I hope everything works out for you both.

Howard: Respect that jealousy! :-)

Ray

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

Howard, I say answer the mother's letter. Yeah, there’s a 90% chance it’s just another angle to scam you, but a 10% chance she really is worried about her child and actualy does not know where she is. Tell her what happened (BRIEFLY, no ‘her fault/his fault’ or  ‘he said/she said’ details) that it was the daughter’s final decision to end the marriage and return to PI. Send her a copy of the annulment papers (and the airline ticket receipt if you have it). Tell her you know she got on the plane and that now you honestly do not know where she is. Throw in a ‘I hope things work out for her and that she WILL be happy some day’. End with a firm ‘But I would not ever get back together with her’.

Cost/Benefit analysis—

Costs:
1. Price of a stamp and a few pages of Xerox copies.
2. A couple of guys on the board might call you ‘sucker’ or ‘softie’.

Benefits:
1. Finally put the matter to rest. I read your story, you gave her more breaks than she deserved, certainly more than 99.9% of men would have given her. Now you can clear to the world (and your own conscience) you did EVERYTHING you could to help her and her family.
2. Honor your mother’s wish.
3. Added bonus (that so far nobody has mentioned). Save a copy of what you send the mother. Sooner or later your new lady is going to learn of the marriage. Maybe she already knows, I bet you’ve already told her…no, not because you’re a sucker, but because I know you are an honest and fair man. Anyway, this ‘final letter’ will be good evidence to the potential Mrs. Howard that she has nothing to worry about along the line of ‘What if SHE comes back?....Would he go back to her?’....a very legitimate fear for the new lady.  

... in response to Re: Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Michael B on Jun 22, 2002

Howard, I wouldn't send them any copies of any legal documents or receipts. If they can't take your word that the marriage was annulled and you bought her a ticket home, then tough. The very last thing you want to do is give them anything that has your personal information on it (as I'm sure your annullment papers do somewhere). No need to give someone over there the ammunition (and temptation) for identity theft.

Just be safe and stick to a letter (only).

Regards, Tim

... in response to Re: Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Michael B on Jun 22, 2002

My condolances on your mother's passing. She raised a very honorable son.

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

.

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

Howard,  

I hate to give advice about relationships, but I have a strong feeling about this one.

First, both me and Mares have been chatting with Gerlie and we know why you think she is so wonderful.  She is wonderful. I think your Gerlie, is cut from the same mold as Mares.  You need to make her your focus and put the past behind.

Ayesa is the past and trust me, you need to stop all corespondence with her and her family now.  It will be the best thing for you.  When you get a letter from her or her family, just chuck it.  

Filipina's are very jealous of ex's.  They don't think like Americans and understand that you're just friends with your ex.  Mares can be irrationally jealous. Mares is also wonderful and treats me so good that I think it's a matter of honor that I give her 100% focus and no reason to be jealous.  She deserves nothing less.

And you know what I feel happier, because I don't dwell on the past, I live for my future with Mares.  I actually finally feel free to be happy.

Dan and Mares

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

Vicky is an Aunt again. Just heard the cackle from the telephone in the living room.

There is a matter of honor here. Howard, you promised to send her home if you no longer wanted her. You were correct in that she would tire of you first (sadly prophetic words, eh?). Still, in either circumstance, you promised to return her to her homeland. If she decides to run off and hide in Manila, of course you cannot control that. She decided she did not want to remain married to you. She refused to return to you after you did noble duty to her family. You tried to get her to come back to you. You have fulfilled your part of the agreement, honorably. You should send them one letter. Explain the circumstances. Be brutally honest but not vindictive. Tell them she would not return to you, and that you do not know where she is right now, which is the exact truth, only that the last time you heard from her she was in Manila. Tell them of the annulment and that it is her idea to end the marriage. Also that you will not answer any more letters, and that you are only writing out of respect for your deceased mother's wishes, and that no, you will NOT reconsider and take her back as you could never trust either her or her family again, to keep them from finding her and attempting to change her mind.

The truth shall set ye free. If you do NOT answer them, I think that you will continue to hear from them. Of course Tim may be right and I wrong. If, after writing this letter, you get an answer from them, burn it unread if you wish.

You have had more than enough heartache in the last year. You could have a proxy write the letter for you, as was offered, but I would feel better doing it myself. Either way, this satisfies your honor and clears the way between you and them. Also you will be able to tell the next poential father-in-law, truthfully, the same thing, with a clear conscience and unblemished honor. Ayesa's parents will have no more hold upon your word of honor, and you will finally be able to get on with life. Just because they lied does not release you from your freely given word. Tell them and clear your honor.

One caveat: ask your lawyer if answering the letter right away would be unwise legally. Don't want to queer the annulment. You may have to wait until after the annulment is iron-clad final.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

-Don

... in response to Re: Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by The Walker on Jun 21, 2002

Howard, you don't know me, but I agree entirely with Don's approach. Write the one letter...and one letter only. Unemotional; like a news release. And then impose strict Radio Silence! Dispose of any further letters, (reading them would be optional), and by all means do NOT respond to further communications from her family.

... in response to Re: Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by The Walker on Jun 21, 2002

It will close the matter both to you and them - especially since you really don't know where she is. My opinion is opposite of Tim's; I believe this will stop them from hounding you, not begin it. The "not know" is more consuming to someone that the explanation, no matter how disagreeable. That she did this or that or what her wishes are or her parents actions are all irrelavent. YOU are the one who has to do the right thing, no matter what other's actions are. Just my 2 cents.

-- Jeff S.

... in response to I'm with you Don., posted by Jeff S on Jun 21, 2002

I know that Ayesa's parents helped get her into this situation, but I'm sure that they thought it would all work out for the best...for "everyone" involved. When she came to America, they knew H was a great guy and would take good care of their daughter. They expected Ayesa to be obedient and act in the manner in which she was raised. When she rebelled, which may not have been a total surprise, they were probably very disappointed in her as parents. Being 10,000 miles away in a foreign country and not hearing from her in many months, I'm sure that they must be very concerned about her welfare (not just about her sending money). I think that H should write the letter himself and if I know H, he won't let anyone else speak for him. :o)) I think that he should explain about the annulment and that he no longer has contact with Ayesa, as was her wish. I think he should also state that he holds no animosity, but has moved on with his life.

Dave H.

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

I heard that the Filipino people treat the Pinay badly when she returns to RP divorced or forced back home. We have to remind ourselves of culture differences. Your ex wife must have a goooood reason not to tell them whats happening with her. I would respect Her wishes not to tell anyone, and just move on...Leave it to Her to deal with her Parents, etc..

... in response to Hi Howard..Hard to Say, posted by greg on Jun 20, 2002

Howard:

Although you owe them nothing, you also owe nothing to the X, just because she doesn't want them to know what's going on doesn't mean you should be reminded every month or so that this ordeal actually happened.

Her Mother obviosly played a big role in the deception, however like most Mothers she only wanted a better life for her daughter than she had. Was it right of her to gamble with your emotions?, obviously not, however I suspect she never imagined in her wildest of dreams that things would have ended the way they did.

My opinion, Tell her Mom what happened in not to many details. Let her know you are aware of her involvement from the start, be polite but make her aware of the two lives she inadvertanly affected by her involvement.

You know your Mom would want you write them, and this will get the Monkey off your back.

Just My 2 Peso worth.
Don J

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

dfd

... in response to IMHO,  take the high road, send them a l..., posted by donb2222 on Jun 20, 2002

Normally I would agree with your advice, Don, but I think this situation is different. If they haven't heard from Ayesa by now, it's because she wants it that way. In desperation, the family is going to latch on to anyone who can give them information about her, and that means they'll keep bothering Howard if he does send even a single letter.

IMHO, the only way he's going to fully heal from this is if he just severs all ties with them.

Maybe my comment about getting someone to impersonate him was a bit harsh, but they don't deserve any better after what they did to him.

Happy anniversary, btw, I forgot to tell you in the thread below.

Regards, Tim

... in response to Normally, I would agree, but..., posted by Tim on Jun 21, 2002

Hi Tim,
  I guess we will agree to disagree.  I think Howard should write a very straightforward letter explaining what happened, and that he does not wish to hear from them again.
I think it might be cathartic for Howard to tell these people exactly what they did to him, and how it turned out.
Besides, he seems to feel it is what his mother would have wanted, and he would probably feel better following her wishes.

Regards and Thanks,

Don

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

Why don't you wait until you visit the Phils again...visit the old in-laws and then fill them in at your leisure with your new sweetie hanging on your arm. Rrrrrrrico'Suave......

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

allow Stephen to send them a letter explaining that an annulment has occured by choice of their daughter (include a copy of the papers) and all else is no longer your concern.  Explain in a simple pharagraph that further contacts will be ignored as you do not wish to waste anymore time on the matter their lies, disreguard for human emotions and unbelieveable treatment of their own daughter caused.

I'd give them no more info than that.

Bear and Honey

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

Howard, if you DO write them, you are just asking to get another letter from them. One full of questions that you should not have to waste one more iota of your precious existence explaining.

I do have a different idea, if you want options. Get one of your buddies up there (or here on PL) to impersonate you and reply to the letter. That would be poetic justice !

Regards, Tim

... in response to Re: Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Tim on Jun 20, 2002

Howard..

I will volunteer to write them a short letter from my address here in California.

I will say that Howard asked me to write and inform them of basic facts.

2 or 3 paragraphs should do it.

Do you want me to do this for you?

Stephen

If so, just sent $10,000 retainer.....just joking.

... in response to Good idea......, posted by Stephen on Jun 20, 2002

before I sent any letter out I would run it past you for approval.

It would just be a short letter that states you are not longer married, no further contact, etc.

Short, but to the point.

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

.. but why would you NOT drop them a note and say that Ayesa and you split up and you put her on a plane back to the Philippines on MMDDYY?

-- Jeff S.

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

I think I would just throw the letter in the trash and go out for a couple of cold beers. Life is too short... :-)

Ray

... in response to No argument here..., posted by Ray on Jun 20, 2002

Ray,  I've been following this board since before Tim went to Hong Kong the first time and Howard is a good guy, I think he at least needs to tell them they are NOT his in-laws anymore.  He can take the high road and he always does.

... in response to Re: No argument here..., posted by Bubba on Jun 20, 2002

(nt)

... in response to Re: No argument here..., posted by Bubba on Jun 20, 2002

Yes, I've been around here that long myself and I agree with you about Howard being one of the good guys. I'm sure that Howard will do what he thinks is right no matter what we tell him.

But, I was merely expressing what "I" would do in a similar situation :-)

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: No argument here..., posted by Ray on Jun 20, 2002

Of course you were just giving your opinion,Ray.You know what he is going to do,I know what he is going to do and Howard knows what he is going to do!

Don't forget to write AIR MAIL on the envelope,H:)

You da man!!

tito Matt

... in response to Re: Re: Re: No argument here..., posted by Matthew on Jun 20, 2002

:-)

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

I have followed your stories for a long time and I think you drop them a short letter.  Start it out with the fact that your Mother is gone and you are writting out of respect for her wishes.  Tell them you no longer have a wife and I wouldn't give them the address even if you do know it.  You could if you chose mention you tried to get her some help but she refussed it.  I don't think you owe them any more information than that and to just unload on them won't really make you feel any better.  We all know on this board you're a better man than that. Later and keep posting.

... in response to Here's something to Argue About ;c), posted by Howard on Jun 20, 2002

Bizzarre indeed.  Do you think they're just messing with your head?  Perhaps just in case they might be worried about Ayesa's whereabouts you should tactfully tell them what happened and that it's overwith.  Whatever Ayesa does,she does it with her free-will and you are not culpable for it.  The best thing, if you do know of ayesa's whereabouts, give her parents' her address.  Then stay out of it.  Her parents really don't deserve any favors from you as they obviosly thought nothing of it to mess up your life by forcing you on Ayesa (and you not even suspecting it).  Hopefully this saga will not end up as another statistic at the CFO about "how bad" Americans are because "another overseas Filipna disappeared".

Cheers,

- Kevin

P.S. Did you read that stuff I sent.  I know you could use some hearty belly laughter.