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EVERYONE is different, and what method works for one will not work for another.

I went the way you are going, and it was successful for me.  Would I recommend it as the best approach for most people?  Probably not, but only YOU can tell what approach will work best for YOU.

Good luck to you.

I'm almost at a loss for words regarding the profoundness of that statement. Lemme guess: You must be a Republican ;)

First, by nature I am a planner.  I always look to the future.  If one understands the road that must be traveled, the road at least feels smoother in the long run.  My question was merely informational -- for budgetary planning.  Plus, I am going to be in KIev and can look into the location of the facilities if necessary and ask any questions that may come to mind.

Second, by nature I am also an optimist.  After corresponding with over 100 women over the last year, I humbly believe I have a good sense about Russian women -- despite the fact that I have just joined this forum.  I have had one American witch in my life and do not wish to have another -- where ever she comes from.  I have been through enough crap in my life that I think I can smell it from a mile away.  So far, no crap.

Third, I am not an idiot.  No, I have not asked her to marry me.  At this point I'd say the odds are 65/35.  I will spend 15 days with her in November.  I think I will have a good idea after that.

Thanks for your concern.

Beattledog

I must be missing something!  Let me guess....he's 46, and she's 22.  Gee, sounds like our mad scientist/retired professor, does it not?  

Can you spell "dependency?"

Hey man, all the best, God Bless.

PS: Have a bullet proof prenup in effect when you pull the trigger!

No, wrong guess.  I'm not a mad scientist/professor.  I am an applied physicist/engineer and amateur historian -- and -- she is also an applied physicist.  What is the difference?  During the Manhattan Project, the theoretical physicists screwed around making the bomb for 4.5 years with countless number of failures.  An applied physicist came in and in two months explained how to make the thing work using orbital compression.  Then, despite the fact that the scientists pondered the theoretical argument that using the bomb would be logically unwise because they might ignite the atmosphere and destroy the world, the applied physicists got pissed off that the war against the rising sun was dragging on so long and costing Americans countless number of lives and convinced them to get off their philosophical and conceptual duffs and drop the damn bomb to end all the BS.  Months later all the soldiers came home and started getting on with their lives -- the atmosphere never ignited and the world did not come to an end.

More practically speaking, if you had been married to the American witch that I was married to and then taken through the courts backwards dragged by the backside, you would understand that I will not go through this again.  I think I have been screwed in every possible legal position possible in custody and support -- and I am not rich.  I have been to court so many times that my lawyer advised me to dismiss him because I had learned and gained so much legal experience that I didn't need him anymore.  Plus, I now personally know both Circuit Court judges in my county and have gained the personal respect of the Family Court judge -- the one Circuit Judge offered to write me a reference if I needed one to go to law school.  So, yes I do know how to write an iron clad prenup.  I said I was not an idiot.

Get the parallel here????  Some of us do not need 4.5 years to figure out whether to marry someone -- so, please be constructive with your advise.  All I wanted to know is how much the medical exam cost -- not all the theoretically pessimistic advice about how to choose a wife (I have read all of yours and LPs comments of pessimism and "I call them as I see them -- give me a break!!! -- are you guys happily married to FSU brides?).  If you live in a glass house you shouldn't throw stones at your neighbor -- especially if he is an applied physicist.  I had hoped that this forum would be a useful source of information.  Maybe I was wrong!!!!!!!!

There are those here to help.

There are those here that have nothing better than belittle others to make themselves seem more superior.

I will not judge you but simply answer your question.

There are two U.S. sanctioned places to have a medical done.  As I remember the American doctor was $100.00 and not very popular while the Ukrianian Oil Ministry Hospital was $75.00 and very popular.

To be most accurate I would suggest searching the site www.uscis.gov for the most up to date information.

If you don't mind me asking, have you decided on a hotel or flat in Kyiv?

...It takes all kinds. Thin skinned, thick skinned, those who are superior but humble themselves, those who are but don't, on and on. It even takes hypocrites who judge some but not others. The hard truth is we're not all equal and not a one of us is perfect...and that's the way it should be.

I am planning to rent an apartment part of the time in Kiev from Kiev Hotel Apartment Service.  The other part of the time I will be in Kharkov at my friends flat.

geh

Unless I book a flat through Jack Bragg at First Dream my family stays in a hotel.

Just my two cents.

Yeah, right.  Here's a little secret:  Lawyers often fire clients that think they know so much about the law, that they start doing their own "research" and actually begin to interfere in their own case and become a nuisance to the lawyer.  Even with your self described new expertise in the law, you write "I think I have been screwed in every possible legal position possible in custody and support."  And now you THINK you know how to write an iron clad prenup?  Well...you don't.  The only true "iron clad prenup" is the one that never gets challenged in court.  Sounds like you need to let your lawyer do his job and you should keep working at your own job...so you can pay the high legal fees. :)

In that conversation I had presented my daughter a living will I had prepared by my atty.and explained to her my motive for my upcoming  trip/vacation.I viewed it at the time as a much needed vacation and oppertunity to meet someone at the same time I was feeling was a good possibility I might have a future with.I left any major decisions and thoughts for "after" we had met and after I arrived back home to proces my thoughts.I WM and ended up V1.

I worried a little for my safety because I was headed to the boonies and didn't know anyone who specificly had been there before so I felt the will was something I should have had in order anyway but I remember telling my daughter that night as we sat,ate and talked about relationships that although she had seen me dating several different American ladies through the years that I never settled with any because I never felt any of them would've made a good lifelong companion for me and that my emotions were simply giving me a hunch that my destiny was calling me and I simply needed to fill the prescribtion by taking this vacation and meeting this lady I was corresponding with.

Well,over 5 years later...I'm still married to this lady I went to meet,have a wonderful son from the marraige and get along as well as can be expected in any relationship.
To me,the good companionship hunch was filled but "all the other things"...and there are many in a relationship,they all seem to find their own way of working out despite how we try to plan them most times.

There have been obsticles and there have been smooth transitions.It's life!
Bottom line...If noone ever had a desire to not be alone then we would still be alone.It don't matter where someone comes from or what is their color or nationality...

It's what the 2 of you do once you meet that determines the outcome...I've had moments I wanted to pull my hair out and I have moments I feel the wife is the best thing that ever happened to me.It all equals out...
It all depends on the individuals...So far,we've both managed to fill each other's voids...maybe it why many choose to not be alone throughout life.There is nothing wrong with a motive like that...

You're just another MOB chump who can't see the forest for the trees. I'm no longer surprised by anything guys like you do. Not how they allow their emotions to overule their intellect, not how irrational they become, not even how they're so clueless they'll actually broadcast their desperation to the world, something that used to astound me no end.

So you've fallen in love with a disembodied voice, letters, and a few photos. Optimist isn't the word I'd use. She even called you once? Imagine that, who woulda thunk physicists could operate telephones? And what does being one have to do with anything relating to women or marriage anyway? Who do you think you are, Bill Murray in Ghostbusters? Lol, "Back off man, I'm a scientist!". From where I sit it's a liability because every physicist I know is about as screwy as people come. Thye aren't exactly known for being the brightest of the bunch in ways that really matter. The only orbital compression you have is with your vision, it prevents you from seeing the world and yourself as they really are.

And why do you have to keep pointing out you're not an idiot? Is a connection to nuclear weapons the best you can do? Yeah, what a contribution. And amateur historian is right. If you'd bothered to study the end of WWII you'd know Japan was more than ready to call it quits. We'd already caused more death and destruction by firebombing other cities than the two nukes combined. They were ready and willing to give up as long as we left their Emperor installed, something we steadfastly refused to do but then capitulated to almost immediately after they surrendered. The fact is had we done what they asked (and what we did in the end) the invasion of Japan would've never occured. We wouldn't have had to extract our ton of flesh by vaporizing two cities, exposed the world to the specter of nuclear annihilation it still lives under today, or began a decades long escalating arms race/cold war that nearly brought us to that point. Not an idiot? I'm curious, how much of not being an idiot does one have to be to live in the middle of nowhere while practicing a life and profession that leaves one poor, lonely, bitter, and shortsighted?

So you've had a lot of crap in your life. Big deal. I wonder whose fault it was? Must have been the witch's huh? No wonder you can smell it a mile away. Well, in the immortal words of Curly Howard: "Nuk, nuk...good thing you can't smell it any closer". Frankly you exhibit all the signs of a classic MOB loser, someone who shifts the blame for his screw ups to others while thinking marriage to a foreign woman is the sliver bullet that'll solve all his problems. I know your type: every day you're forced to add another name to the list of people who piss you off. And to think there are multitudes like you out there. It boggles the mind.

It's abundantly clear you must be one lonely hombre but in the end I don't care what you do. I don't care what you are, where you live, what she does, how old she is, or even if she's a Nerdette  but so ugly you have to look at her through a cardboard box with a pinhole in it. To me you're just another desperado who had to go abroad because the local tomatoes weren't interested. Not much of a history buff either, you've forgotten those who ignore it are doomed to a repeat performance.

Btw Einstein, I've never been taken for a ride. Never been dragged through the courts, never lost a penny, and never needed a prenup. I'm just a lowly bus driver living a halfway decent life in my glass house (which allows a clear view of the outside world) with a good woman. Some of us aren't so desperate that we fall in love with people we haven't met, need to marry after one visit abroad, or even marry at all. Not to mention I've forgotten more about FSU women than you'll ever know. Put all that in your cyclotron and smoke it...

Anti-war, but willing to pick a fight quicker than Atilla  the Hun.

Willing to re-write history (from an un-named source which is usually himself) just to get attention & feel important.

Legend in their own mind.

Got nothing better to do on a Saturday night other than ripping into someone you do not even know.  Obviously there is not happiness in your love life.

If you wanted some entertainment, you missed a great battle in Columbus (Ohio State v U of Texas) or you missed two great fights on HBO (where a legend was beaten into retirement) or you could have used your right hand!

Funny you should mention last night though. If you only knew but telling would cost me more than you're worth. I'll bet if the situation were reversed you'd be spilling it to anyone who'd listen, which is why my breakfast is being made as I type this and it'll be an Egg McMuffin for you...again. You can huff and puff all you want but you're easily trumped: living well really IS the best revenge.

Have a nice life, at least what's left of it. As we say in my biz: Buh-bye!

I think the problem here is that I cannot write all the details of what happened with my ex-wife, what is happening with my life now (and in the past), and what is happening with my lady friend in Kharkov -- by the way she is not mail ordered (I finally figured out what MOB stands for).  Neither can I write what is going on in my head, my heart, and my soul.  And, I think that we can both agree that you don't know much about me to make some of the assessments that you have.  In order to dish out any criticism (whether constructive or destructive), one must know more about the particulars -- whether that be you and your wife or me and my lady friend or anybody and their lady.

We can disagree on the merits of dropping the bomb on Japan. Scholars have been arguing that point for many years.  However, we could agree not to be disagreeable.  Whether that be with regards to bombs or bombshells.

Look, the bottom line is, I have free tickets on airlines and stays in hotels from all the travel that I did in the 1990's.  I want to travel to the Ukraine (which I could not do before due to my DOD clearance status) and have a great 12 days.  For me, it will be a very, very inexpensive vacation.  I have found (through a third party -- my friends Alex and Tanya live down the street from me and immigrated from the Ukraine) a really beautiful 33 year old, 5'8", 128 lb, blonde haired, and green eyed woman who is intelligent, sincere, and very interested in me.  We have written over 200 times by email and talked over 20 times on the phone -- I am interested in her.  I want to meet her and figure out whether there is common chemistry and physics.  I just hope that I have enough brain cells left after the action to make common sense decisions.  But, in the worse case scenerio, I ask her to marry me -- the world for me will not come to an end and neither will I be put into a box that I cannot get out of.  I can still come back to the states and assess matters in the comfort of my living and words of this forum.  Keep in mind that the best plans always change the minute the battle starts and can then change with every skirmish in the battle.  I just hope that if I fall into the depths of making decisions that are not logical -- someone will be there to offer some wisdom with the proper constraint and understanding.  If you can do that I would be appreciative.  If you cannot, then maybe it would be best if we did not get off on another rant again.  I would like to use the other insights and wisdom that are available in this forum.  And, this request applies to anyone else who responds to my postings.  I recognize that in this game of women from the former USSR their are few successes and many failures.  I just hope my failures do not have large consequences and I pray that I shall be successful with much happiness -- I know the odds or 4:1 against success.  

G

It's true I don't know much about you but I know a lot about the kind of people who get into this on both sides of the equation. As will you once  you've been around it as long as I've been. And yes, I know we're all individuals...just like every one else. Understand? But I'm intolerant of those who stagger around MOB (a catch all term we use to describe any aspect of this endeavor) like drunken baboons while giving the rest of us a black eye. Whether you're one or not isn't the real point because their numbers are multiplying daily. This business draws them like flies. The stories some friends in immigration have told me would make your hair stand on end. Not to mention what I've heard from my contacts in Ukraine.

That said, I feel most of us have a responsibility to police the losers (even if it seems like shoveling shit against the tide) as best we can before they ruin it for those like you who may (we'll see) be under control. It's not an irrational fear. There are several groups actively working to change non-immigrant visa policies in the US because of the whackos who flock to MOB. I suggest you read europete's post above. If you have any common sense remaining you may wish to closely examine what you're about to jump into. It's not gonna be easy. It's not gonna be cheap. It has the potential to be one of the most emotionally exhausting things you've ever done. Did I mention it's not gonna be easy or cheap?

Don't get me wrong, some of these women can be Heaven at times. Others times? Be afraid...be very afraid. Even the good ones are loose cannons. Such is the price to be paid for femininity. And until you've sat in a tiny kitchen and watched one in a miniskirt and heels clean and gut the fish she just pulled out of a river you won't understand just how much of an enigma that femininity can be. I'm shaking my head in amazement at the photo as I write this.

Anyway, I'll not ignore your eloquent request to begin anew even if it wasn't required. You exhibit a balance of grit, sensitivity and, most importantly, a self awareness that maybe, just maybe, will serve you well in this crazy business. It's the single greatest weapon you have against  the Power and you should've demonstrated it from the start. In light of that I'll strive to keep your "newness" in mind as long as you remember I'm a battle scarred veteran of this board and the MOB scene in general.

Btw, no one needs to know the details of your life or past "mistakes". In fact I suggest you keep your past, as well as your present and future, close to home. I do. As long as an individual can be objective about his or her situation they'll do OK. Most find that to be a very tall order however. In your case I suggest you remember one thing: The witch was the most wonderful creature in the world the day you married her.

Like you I travel on the cheap so I've spent years running around Ukraine (no longer called "The" Ukraine btw). While most of these guys are/were on a mission to marry I wasn't (same with Globetrotter although he's far more tolerant of drunken baboons). As such I know a lot about these women through sheer exposure. The overly romantic (the hole in the soul types) here often don't agree with what I say but everything is based on extensive experience, sheer numbers, and objective observation. Not to mention I have dozens of female friends in the FSU, former "participants" with whom I remain in contact with. They were very candid about themselves and their MOB sisters when my ball was no longer in play. Conclusions? Again, be afraid.

There are others here with experience of different flavors. Dan and KenC are always worth listening to when it comes to the "after effects" of marriage, as is (dare I say it) MarkinTX, when he posts. One downside is all are reflecting on their experiences with one woman: theirs, not yours. But their observations still have merit because one can't easily remove the culture from a real FSU gal. Course, you must take their objectivity about their wives with a grain of salt, especially Mark's. He's as whipped as they come but sometimes I wonder if we should all be so dumb and happy. If nothing else he's a reminder of the very fine line between love and codependency.

Ray is the guy for immigration matters. Streetwise is a level-headed bloke (lol, when he's not writing poetry) and worth a listen, as is Charles, RickM, Bobby Orr, Philb and a few others. Then there's Jack, who runs an agency and is, well, Jack. Haven't heard from him lately though. And Patrick, who doesn't say or interfere much (as any proper God would) but who never has his finger far from the button. And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Travis and Frank, whose lives pretty much exist solely to serve as a warning to others ;).

It's up to you to decide whom to beleive. In the end we're all just pissin' in the wind and no one gets out alive. I know, a bit long winded. It's a curse. Anyway, your apology is accepted and mine tendered in return.

You can become engaged for a year or more while you make several more trips there to get to know her better, similar to what you would do here if you met someone you liked.

Budapest is an inexpensive place to meet.  So is Turkey.

You will piss people off if you tell them you know what you're doing because you are a physicist...which again has nothing to do with the game (a dangerous game) you're now playing.  When you come across as a "know-it-all" you will be burned.

Lastly, unless you have a very good income, I wouldn't even start.

And again, nobody here wants you to fail.

I spoke about pride (a few weeks ago) with this lady that I am intested in.  She had good words that for the most part I agree with.  In any case, it somewhat applies here:

"A PROUD man believes he has only one equal and that one equal is GOD.  He thinks he knows all and shall eventually become the scorn of all around him."

I shall be more humble.

Hey, I'm a know it all. How come I don't get burned? ;)

Now I almost feel bad I jumped on him. I should've cut him slack and left it at the "sigh" until he coughed up more. The squeeze is always saying I'm "self-dog housing", whatever that means. When I figure it out I'll know even more ;)

The other guy (FT) is still a loser though...

"Quick to JUDGE, Quick to ANGER, Slow to understand Ignorance and prejudice And FEAR walk hand in hand."

Your buddy
Fathertime

I'm glad he's not paying for that little bit of "sage advice."  Since you seem cut from the same swatch of fabric
does that make you as lonely and desperate?  You must be joking.  I'm just curious, in both your cases....what the hell is the hurry?  Do you have information that you only have a short time to live?  As LP would put it...methinks
you're another desperado...Steverino as well.

About LP:  He's been to FSU about 30 times, was engaged to one and had her here on a K1...so he almost did the deal.

He has been able to tell what some 20 FSU girls think about the men who chase them...  He has experiences in many different areas, but should be for him to tell...................

Now, if you can offer as much, or your life experience has been similar, all are interested.  If your advice is to let your emotions run your life, to lust for, to "shoot from your hip" maybe it's time you retired in total...in Cali.

Sometimes even the best of advice that is absolutely correct is hard to hear when it comes across abrasively because of the natural human defense mechanism in most of us that protects ego and pride is triggered blocking the interface between the ears and the mind -- and/or -- the prcoessing of information in the brain.  Someone said that we are all in this together and nobody wants anybody to fail -- I would add if anybody wants somebody to fail then they should not offer advice in this forum and seek help from somebody.  If someone wants his advice to be heard and be helpful, then one should come across with wisdom and constraint, not arrogance and abrasion -- I am not accusing anybody of anything -- I am speaking in general.  This forum overall offers many good input from many sources -- I would think the last thing that anybody would wish is for somebody to be turned away from this forum in total because they felt insulted.  Going off on one's own in this game is dangerous.

In my youth, I enjoyed "verbal abusement for personal amusement" -- I thought I was even good at it.  I do not think that this pasttime should apply in this forum due to the seriousness of what we are all attempting to do.  But, on the other hand, I think that anybody who is in this game should not have thin skin and should not be handled like a child -- if they are and they expect then the chances of failure if very, very high.  There is a distinction between being blunt and being condescending and being motherly.  Personally, I can handle all of them.  But, I prefer someone being blunt to me rather than being condescending or being motherly -- I can hear and process better if someone is blunt to me.

You, well, there isn't any need for me to take swipes. You're at the bottom feeder level of MOB so it's easier to let your posts (the wisdom refelected in the one above is almost as good as the others) stand on their own merit. Good grief, you must be even lonelier than he is. Based on your previous posts it's easy to see why. That's the difference between you and I: it's obvious you're actually the way you come across. Doesn't bode well for you at all.

And yes, she does beat me almost daily. I wouldn't have it any other way. Lol, just proves she loves me. Here's hoping you get as lucky before the time on father's clock runs out...

Am I supposed to be honered you typed a few words for my benefit?
...glad to see I struck a nerve on you, I figured you had none.  You should know what messes are since clearly your life has turned into one based on your cruelty and bitterness expressed on the this board. As for my life I am a happy man, more than can be said about yourself.  You like to pretend you are different than what you write but I doubt you are.  You probably bore the hell out of everyone you come across. People just humor you and hope you go away. I have found many members advise useful on this board but yours I have found condescending, disrespectful, and useless. That is a real bad combo.  You give no quarter to anyone so don't expect any quarter from here on out.  
Insofar as what I say to Gene I still stand by it: I say go for it and use your best judgement in the short time you have!
Your Buddy
Fathertime

He couldn't even spell it out. Lol! I can't compete with that, it's enough to emasculate real men everywhere. The prosecution rests...

Good luck recovering from whatever mental affliction you are suffering from.  
Your buddy
Fathertime

You accuse me of being one and can't even type it from behind the safety of your keyboard?! I'm speechless. Lol! You delivered the goods better than I could've ever hoped for.

Arnold would be proud. You are without a doubt one of the biggest girly-men I've ever seen. Better stick to Latinos because FSU chix would eat you alive. But hey, you can't possibly be looking for a woman anyway. I'm getting such strong returns on the Gadar it sounds like you're not in SoCal but up in SFO.

Congrats, you've humbled me. You win hands down. You've the ability to emasculate with one fell swoop. I'll bet even earthworms for miles around are feeling the effects. I can't compete with something like that so I'm done. Hell, I'll need to go stand in the shower for an hour or two just from that post alone. Lol, no doubt you'd love to join me but I'm already taken. Buh-bye!

Your desperation is showing as you spend your entire message questioning another mans sexuality.  Now your playing childish games to deflect from the real issue which is your cowardly attacts on others.  LP you define coward.  You were like a bottle of milk that was once good but has curdled and gone rancid.  Just a swayed back old pony about ready for dogmeat, just looking to get a couple kicks in before the meat grinder. Go ahead old horse defend yourself and your indefensible position further and continue to make a fool of yourself. Your entertainment is quite a show for all to see!
You are right I do "Win hands down".  
Enjoy your shower alone.
Your buddy
Fathertime

It must be either the beatings or mental masterbation due to the lack of sex.

Funny though, I doubt he'll ever get the message.  Like teachers and college/university professors who think they're heads and shoulders above the rest, yet have no clue.

Makes me think of DavidSD/JohnLV, the self proclaimed "mensa" who was also clueless.  Funny, when these guys come on here and tell of their "conquests" at least one may think they may learn something from their experiences.  In his case....what not to do!!!

If things go south with your FSU squeeze, which court of law do you think she will use?  You just may end up right back where you were.  

Nobody here wants you to fail...just the opposite.  Just use your head in your personal relationships like you would do with your work.  But, somehow, regarding someone you have yet to meet, and already planning the wedding is a bit bizzare to anyone with an ounce of common sense.  Get my drift?

Yes, I am very cautious, as I have been where you were, already having to buy half of my house back from someone who never put anything into it.

Anyhow, Pal, you know best!

...I don't want anyone to fail. But if they get what they ask for, what they deserve, reap what they sow, ect, you won't hear me crying. There is a big difference between that and "failing". For example look at europete's post above. No loss there.

And you're right about them not having any common sense beyond their brains. Do you know who Harry Daghlian and Louis Slotin were? I'll bet your pal Gene does. Now there's some examples of physicist genuis at work...

You are one smart fellow!