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Now, if you would, let's try to simplify that process to something like a step-by-step process that is both easy to follow, and offers reasonable chance of success.

Here is my interpretation of all that you wrote below - please correct anything:

* Start with some 'givens':
First - lady is from Ukraine
Next - lady wants a Schengen visa that will allow her to travel to any of the 15 countries who are signatory to the Schengen Agreement (Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden)

[BTW - there is a very good description of the Schengen Agreement on one of Germany's websites, here -- http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/willkommen/einreisebestimmungen/schengen_html]

* So the first ?? question is: Which of the 15 countries offer the easiest path to getting a Schengen visa?

Since a person can freely travel to any of the 15 countries, it really isn't important which one of the countries issues the visa.

Germany issued more than 2 Million Schengen visas in both 2002 and 2003, but issued slightly fewer in 2003. I wonder how many the other Schengen countries issued - and more importantly, I wonder if we can identify the success rate of applications - particularly applications from Ukraine - and from Russia, etc.

* Next, it seems there is really only one major consideration made by the issuing authority. That is - "The applicant must prove that he/she has adequate funds for the intended stay and may not claim any public funds in this connection."

As I understand your message Bruno, for Belgium, an applicant must show they have 50 Euro per day for the term of their intended trip.

[Bruno, I know that there are MANY different potential scenarios. Let's just take this one set of hypotheticals and run it all the way through to completion - everything else is just a variation on a theme. For instance, I know the lady can demonstrate a lesser amount if she is sponsored by someone for her trip. Let's not deal with that scenario right now.]

Second ?? - Is that rate of 50 Euro per day consistent across all 15 Schengen countries - or does Belgium require more (or less) than others?

Third ?? - How does the lady demonstrate that she has this money? Does she bring the cash with her to the interview? Or maybe bring a bank account statement?

* The Schengen Agreement requires demonstration of valid medical/repatriation insurance in the amount not less than 30,000 Euros.

OK - so here is how I see it so far:

* Lady submits application to Embassy in Kyiv (one of the 15 Schengen countries).
* Lady waits for interview, at which time she must demonstrate:

(a) Funds available for the trip
(b) Proper Insurance
(c) Reason for trip - holiday
(d) Proof of travel tickets (airline reservations)
(e) Proof of accommodation (hotel reservation or letter from host)

If successful, lady will be granted a Schengen visa that is valid for travel to any of the Schengen agreement countries and is valid for a term of 90 days within a 6-month window.

That is everything - correct?

Bruno, what is your direct experience with successes and failures for the women you have worked with? Is there any trend you can identify - such as lenient countries - or those who are more stringent?

I think it would be VERY helpful to many people, if this Schengen visa process can be resolved down to a simplified procedure that has an expected rate of success.

Thanks, in advance, for working with me to try to clarify this process Bruno.

- Dan

On the other hand she is very competent and can apply for herself as well. She lives in Perm, Russia.

By the way, at the top of this message board the tiltle of this forum makes reference to Mail Order Bride...somehow that does not appear to be either accurate or positive. Anyone agree?

Like saying "that is a UFO" when refering to what can be clearly IDENTIFIED as a space ship.
UFO was always intended to mean 'I don't know what it is'.

However, I understand that mail correspondence was quite popular in 19th cent mining towns and they sent the ladies stage coach or railroad tickets to come visit.
 

Like saying "that is a UFO" when refering to what can be clearly IDENTIFIED as a space ship.
UFO was always intended to mean 'I don't know what it is'.

However, I understand that mail correspondence was quite popular in 19th cent mining towns and they sent the ladies stage coach or railroad tickets to come visit.
 

The Plain Truth about the Mail Order Bride Industry
***************************************************

Despite the sophistication that the Internet has brought to mail order bride dating, the perception of the mail order bride business is still confused with the century old practice of “buying” a mail order bride sight unseen from a catalog. Therefore the phrase “mail order brides” carries a stigma that robs mail order brides of their dignity and the mail order bride industry of some of its credibility. Also, the former practice of printing mail order catalogs of marriage-minded women continues to cast a shadow on the legitimacy of the modern mail order bride business.

A short history of the mail order bride catalog industry :

The mail order bride catalogs of today bear little resemblance to their precursors of old. The practice of searching for a bride by post started among early settlers in the New World who, troubled by the lack of eligible women in their new settlement, would write back to their homeland in the hope of securing a wife. Early Japanese and other Asian immigrants sought the help of relatives or matchmakers back home in their search for Asian brides. The choice of Asian bride was sometimes based on photos and a few letters exchanged between the bride and the man, thus giving birth to the term “picture brides.”

Origin of the term “mail order brides” :

It is easy to see why the mail order bride catalog business gets a bad rap. The phrase “mail order brides” is a gross misrepresentation of the actual process that goes into searching for brides by mail. A mail order bride is not something that is ordered through a catalog and airmailed to the paying customer. The misleading mail order bride misnomer originated from mail order bride agencies’ practice of printing and distributing by mail catalogs of foreign women seeking a suitable husband from the west. Based on published photos and profiles, the men would then choose which mail order brides they wished to correspond with. The mail order bride agency furnishes the interested men with the information necessary to initiate correspondence. In some cases, a mail order bride catalog went a step further by arranging the actual meeting between the man and the prospective mail order bride.

The mail order bride agency as matchmaker :

In effect, the mail order bride catalog assumes the role of matchmaker in the bride search process. For a certain fee, a mail order bride agency supplies their male clients with the names and addresses of preferred women selected from the mail order bride catalog for the purpose of correspondence. The fee covers the cost of collecting information on the mail order brides, printing and mailing and catalog. In no way is payment made for the mail order bride. Furthermore, the mail order bride agency does not coerce women into becoming mail order brides. The mail order brides themselves volunteer their names and addresses to mail order bride catalogs, in the hope of finding a good husband.

The mail order bride catalog shakes off its shadowy image :

What’s in a name? To the mail order bride industry, a mountain of distorted perceptions and half-truths. Since the inception of the first mail order bride catalog, the stain of the “mail order brides” phrase has been difficult to wash off. In an attempt to correct misconceptions about mail order bride agencies, the mail order bride industry describes itself more appropriately as: international introduction services, international dating agencies, or international matchmaking agencies. These terms are a more valid description of how mail order bride agencies function today. The mail order bride catalog has also taken the initiative of policing its ranks by exposing scammers and frauds. Additionally, mail order brides and their prospective husbands themselves benefit from the increased efficiency and sophistication of Internet-based mail order bride catalogs. Communication has become more immediate and information more freely available, thereby reducing the odds of becoming victimized by those few who are using the mail order bride catalog industry to make a quick buck.

For the info from the foreign office about the visa, see below.

For the netherland application form, download it on my site : http://www.love-from-russia.be/holland.pdf ... he is now online and i keep it to Sunday...

In russia :

* Embassy Moscow

Website: www.netherlands-embassy.ru
Open: Monday-Friday 09:00-13:00 and 14:30-17:30
Time difference (compared to gmt/utc): +3
Issue of passports: Yes
Issue of NL identity cards: No
Ambassador: Drs. T.P. Hofstee
Serves: Russian Federation and Uzbekistan
Address:
Kalashny Pereulok 6
125009 Moscow
Tel. 00-7-095-7972900
Fax 00-7-095-7972904
E-mail: mos@minbuza.nl

* Consulate-General St. Petersburg

Website: www.nlcg.spb.ru
Open: Monday-Friday 09:00-12:30 and 13:00-17:00 (Public)
Time difference (compared to gmt/utc): +3
Issue of passports: Yes
Issue of NL identity cards: No
Main mission: Embassy Moscow
Head of Mission: drs. E.W.V.M. Hoeks
Serves: the city of St Petersburg, the autonomous Republic of Karelia, the oblasts of Archangelsk, Kaliningrad, Leningrad, Murmansk, Novgorod, Pskov and Vologda
Address:
Moika 11
191186 St. Petersburg
Tel. 00-7-812-3340200
Fax 00-7-812-3340225
E-mail: pet@minbuza.nl

Not only American have easy to get in schengen... a list of country who don't need a visa... only passport :
Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Bolivia, Brazil, Brunei, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany (Federal Republic), Greece, Guatemala, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Monaco, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, United States of America, Uruguay, Vatican City, Venezuela.

**
****
**

Info from Netherlands foreign office :

Applying for a visa

Where can I apply for a visa?
You can apply for a visa at a diplomatic mission (embassy or consulate) of a Schengen country, even if you are not a national of the country where the mission is situated. Under the Schengen Agreement, honorary consuls are not authorised to grant visas.

You should apply for a visa at a mission belonging to the Schengen country that is the main destination of your journey. If you cannot specify your main destination, you should apply at a mission belonging to the Schengen country you will enter first.

How do I apply for a visa?
The first step is to complete a visa application form. You should then go to the mission, taking the completed and signed application form and one passport photo (also if you are applying for an authorisation for temporary stay).

When submitting your application, you must be able to produce a travel document that will be valid for at least three months after your visa expires.

You can download a visa application form here.

What conditions must I meet?
The visa-issuing authority will establish whether your visit poses a danger to public order, national security or international relations, and whether you have already been refused entry to the Schengen Area. It will also take account of the purpose of your visit in assessing these risks and the risk that you may remain in the country illegally. You should  be able to prove that you have enough financial means at your disposal to cover your travel and accommodation expenses. You need to have a travel medical insurance to cover any expenses for repatriation for medical reasons, urgent medical attention and/or emergency hospital treatment. The insurance must:

1)                  be valid throughout the Schengen territory

2)                  have a minimum coverag of EUR 30.000

3)                  cover the entire period of the person’s stay.

The amount of financial means considered "enough" will depend on the purpose of your visit (you may for instance intend to buy goods), your accommodation (whether you intend to stay in hotels or with friends or relatives), and the duration of your visit. Alternatively, you can give the name of a "guarantor" – a person in the Netherlands willing to guarantee payment of any costs the Dutch state may incur as a result of your visit. The applicant should obtain the travel medical insurance in their state of residence. Where this is not possible the applicant can obtain the insurance in another country or the host can obtain the insurance for the applicant in his own place of residence. When submitting your visa application, you should also enclose supporting documents relating to your visit (such as a return ticket), its purpose (such as an invitation), and your ability to pay all your travel and accommodation expenses (such as traveller's cheques, bank statements, and payslips).

The number and type of supporting documents to be enclosed will depend on the circumstances in the  country  where you are applying and the nature of the visa application.You can obtain more information from the mission where you submit your application or from its website.

How long does it take to get a visa?
It can takea minimum of a few days up to a maxiumum of two months to process a visa application, depending on whether further investigation is necessary in the Netherlands. In exceptional cases, an investigation will take longer than two months. You should therefore apply for a visa as soon as possible to avoid the disappointment of having to postpone your visit.

What can I do if my visa application is refused?
If the visa-issuing authority refuses your application, it will send you a copy of the decision explaining why. You may object to this decision within four weeks of its issue (details of where to send your objection are enclosed with the decision). You may also authorise a person in the Netherlands to object to the decision on your behalf or to represent you at any hearing. This person (usually your referee) must have written authority to do so (in Dutch, French, German, or English) signed by you.

The visa-issuing authority will then decide on your objection. If it decides in your favour, it will authorise the mission to issue you with a visa. If it decides against you, it will send you a copy of its decision, explaining why it has rejected your objection.

You can still submit a new visa application if new facts or circumstances arise. If your new application is successful, you may be asked to withdraw your objection to the earlier refusal.

What does a visa cost?
When you submit a visa application, you must pay a fee. If your application is refused, the fee will not be refunded but retained to cover the processing costs. The Schengen countries have harmonised visa fees.

As a rule, you must pay the fee in the local currency. In exceptional cases (for instance, if the local currency is not convertible), you must pay in another currency. You may also have to pay other costs incurred in processing your application (such as the cost of sending faxes).

Visa fees:

an airport transit visa: €35;

a transit visa valid up to five days: €35;

a visa valid for up to one month: €35;

a single-entry visa valid for up to three months: €35

a multiple-entry visa valid for up to three months: €35;

a multiple-entry visa valid for up to one year: €35;

a multiple-entry visa valid for up to five years: €35

an authorisation for temporary stay: €50.

How long is a visa valid for?
Visas are normally issued for the duration you specify, with a maximum of three months (90 days) per six months.. The visa-issuing authority will want to see your flight ticket to check the dates on which you will be entering and leaving the country.

In the "duration of stay" box on the sticker, you will find the number of days during which you may remain in the Schengen Area. In the "from" box, you will find the date on which your visa becomes valid. You may enter the Schengen Area on that date or afterwards. In the "to" box, you will find the date on which your visa expires.

As soon as you enter the Schengen Area, the days in the "duration of stay" box start to count down. You must leave the Schengen Area no later than the day on which you have reached your maximum number of days or on the date stated in the "to" box.

I want to enter the Netherlands more than once. Can I do so?
A visa can also be "multiple entry". This will be stated on the visa sticker. The holder may enter and leave the Schengen Area an unlimited number of times during the visa's period of validity (see the "from" and "to" boxes). But he may stay no longer than the number of days stated in the "duration of stay" box. Nor may he stay longer than three months within a six-month period or six months within a 12-month period, since to do so would amount to settling in the Netherlands, for which an authorisation for temporary stay (MVV) is required.

Who decides whether my visa application is accepted?
Most embassies and consulates may take independent decisions on visa applications. But in the case of certain nationalities, they have to pass visa applications on to the authorities in the Netherlands.

A Schengen visa is valid for 15 countries, some of which want to be informed about visa applications. This is why the application process takes two weeks. You should take account of it when applying for a visa.

Even when it does not have to do so, a mission may choose to send a visa application to the authorities in the Netherlands for advice or further investigation.

Depending on the purpose of the visit, these applications will be assessed by either the Ministry of Justice or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

However, I know many people living in North-Western Russia like Leningrad oblast apply for visa to Finland, and that visa opens the gate for them to all the Schengen countries. Our relatives in Russia always do that.

Haroshij

But before all, shengen, it is the 15 country cited + Andora, Vatican, Gibraltar, Lichtenstein, Monaco, San Marino... and in 2006, 10 new country are in shengen, some from ex-ussr : Cyprus (Greek part), the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia

The first time my ex-wife have come in Belgium, it was with a tourist visa... in these case she need give at the ambassy :
- a prove about have some fund ( tax document, bank document, ... no need cash )
- in my case, letter from host ( invitation )
- insurance ( i have pay one insurance all in 63 euro for one month stay in Belgium ) usual travel insurance are right but several insurance from russia are not valid in Europa.
- a valid international passport ( validity more long of 6 month that the planned datum of trip )

The proces time is between 1 and 3 month ( the first time, it is more long )

After, the ambassy have contact my ex when all was ready... and she go a second time to ambassy with the flight ticket... and receive the visa...

For my ex, the only problem was the prove of fund... but you know certainly russia... for some rouble, a bank have make a document who attest she have 1500$ on a account.
:-))) corruption always work...

For the second meeting... we have use the system of invitation... more easy of more fast

- i have send her a prove of my nationality, a copy of my income ( tax document ), a form fill in city administration.
- She have go to ambassy with these document, the flight ticket ( go and back with possibility to annulation and on name ), and the passport

Now, two situation... you have time, and you pay the normal fee... around one week for the visa if she have already visit shengen other one month... if you have enough money, you pay double fee and she have the visa the same day ( only possible if she have already visit shengen )

Why i have not use the second method for the first meeting... the form that you fill in city administration is a form where you say that you are responsible financially for the lady the next two year... Very dangerous for a first meeting... you are responsible for all... make it only if you trust her... and because i am enough suspicious with woman... a tourist visa can be good for the first time.

Now, the price of visa is fix, but the amount by day, the income you need are different by country, ... and each year, they are revised...

The are based on the level of life of each country... it is the pauvrety level + 20%... usualy, south of Belgium, the price are more low... and north more high...

And almost forget, the amount by day is more low when the woman stay by you and not at hotel... 38 euro in place of 50 euro day...

In each case... these is no interview... more administrative work... and it is no problem for receive a visa for woman from FSU...

About the choice of country, choice your own country... the arrival place need to be in the country selected  : where the hotel reservation are make of where the man live in case of invitation

But you have a lot of shengen visa ( tourist and invitation )... detail of price ( the last one for 2004 :
- Type A : transit via aeroport : 10 euro
- Type B : transit via aeroport more entry : 10 euro
- Type C1 : short visit 1-30 days : 30 euro
- Type C2 : short visit 1-90 days : 30+5 euro
- Type C3 : multiple visit one year : 50 euro
- Type C4 : multiple visit 5 year max 90 day year : 50+30 euro
- Type D : national visa for a long stay : 30 euro

The procedure is very easy, the succes is almost 100% ( europa don't accept criminal )... the only problem is that we have so much choice...

...Danny, I'm not up to speed on the Schengen but doesn't it include Italy? The reason I ask is because several women I know have gone to Italy without problems. Most had never been out of the FSU before. A Russian girl I flew into Kiev to meet last July just married an Italian guy after visiting him twice and I'm planning on meeting another in Rome later this year.

You're worrying me LP. Guys that fly people around (like you do) can't miss the small details --smile--.

BR

- Dan

Sorry, I see that now. My eyes aren't what they used to be. It's not a problem at work because I keep them closed most of the time ;)

I'll check with the ladies I mentioned about the details used to obtain their visas...