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All ladies I have ever met in Russia or Ukraine have all expressed this sense of style as one of the most important factors in their life.

You can choose to dress as you please (i.e. more like you prefer at home) but you will certainly fall under the scrutinizing eye of the Ukrainian woman.  One of the most important items seems to be shoes.  They hold some special regard for quality of shoe ware in both men and women.  

I am not saying that you need to wear a suit and tie, actually my wife doesn't like that, but she prefers me to wear something with a sense of European style.

I can't tell you what the right choice for your own life is but beware that your wardrobe will be a point of contention in your marriage.

Here's what Jack spring or fall tour of guys looked like.
http://www.firstdream.com/spring2005/pics2004fall1.shtml

Anzo

Basically woman anywhere in the world will notice a well dressed stylish gentleman. It is very important to feel comfortable and 'yourself', it is also important to stand out and be noticed. I have personally visited Ukraine, Brazil, and China (stating these 3 as a basis of comparison), and the woman from Ukraine were ALL fashion minded. It is like a pastime during a girls childhood to develope a fashion sense. Brazil culture and woman were all dressed up in shorts and other similar casual beach wear. in China everyone dressed up in jeans and Nike jogging suits. However in Ukraine socialy minded woman (the ones you would be interested, and not the babushkas)ALL dressed in a fashionable attire, and they do expect the same level of attention for 'thier' man to follow with his attire.

This does not mean to wear a tie everywhere, but I can guarentee you will deny yourself many potential good first impressions, and if you miss out a good first impression from 'the one' because you have a personal vendetta against looking formal and stylish for one event, then that is a terrible price to pay.

Do not think of it as surrendering to the 'establishment'. Just look at it as you are dressing up for them, as that is what they want to see, that is all part of the romantice process both woman and men enjoy.

Sure there are some Ukrainian woman that will not care if you dress down (this is really a minority in Ukraine). However even those women will appreciate the attention you give to make a first meeting a formal romantic affair.

It is a very romantic game they play (I personaly enjoy the 'game'). I suggest to play along, at least for the first impression meeting.

May I ask why you are so against wearing a tie? It really will matter in 90% of the time, and after spending so much time, effort, and money do you not want to have the best chance at success?

BTW, I have received gifts from various woman during my travels. And each gift I received from Ukraine women were in fact a name brand clothing article (usually an accesory like a tie or belt). They expected me to wear the gift the next time we went out. If you got a tie as a gift and they wanted to see you wear it, what will you do? Refuse? They may take your refusal and unappreciation of the gift, and an insult. This is just an example how sytle and formal clothing is such a big part of the culture.

You may feel more comfortable sticking with Latin American culture. That culture is more relaxed about clothing. If you are with an Eastern Europeon woman be expected to dress up, and if she does not speak about it she will in fact think about it and enjoy it when you do dress up.

Those are my thoughts. Go out and wear a suit for one night. If you need help with a tie, ask your date. She will be more than happy to show you and appreciate your attempt to be fashionable for her as she is trying to do for you.

MNKenr

Any lady on the face of the planet wants to see a guy or their guy to look appealing, kinda like she's show you off to all the other ladies, vindicating her self worth to socieity.

If you look like a bum.  What's that say about her ?

Once your there, set the girl up to see if she really does care about how you two look together.  I like leaned up against a old wall and the white like paint dust was pressed into my jacket.  The lady I was with took the time to try and sweep the dust off my jacket.

What would you american girl friend do here in America?
Would she lift a finger to do anything or would she just point it out to you and let you deal with it.

Any guy can land a pretty girl over there.   Just can you land one that really cares about YOU and not how much your worth.

Course, that's true over here... it's just much more difficult to find.  Their not as desperate, which is why their so fat.

Good luck, and just remember if you will not wear a tie or dressing up in formal attire, then be sure you have another 'angle' that will get you noticed and desired. I am sure you will have no problem there.

In any case it will be an experience and I comend you for taking advantage of the experience.

MNkenr

Trust me bub, if you can't find a Colombian lady, maybe you should try a Brazilian or Panama.

I'm sure it's that same way with some Ukrainian women, but I'd much prefer to look at a fat white lady than a fat mexican or asian.  Besides, when they get really big, aren't you suppose to like trade them in for a newer model.

:-)

And as I recall you looked very handsome in your attire at the parties you attended.

MNKen are you married? Engaged? How did things turn out with the lady you had so much interest in?

Well she came over to visit. Things went well, however she can not see herself leaving her family to live 'out of country' She still has some goals she wants to finish with her life before 'moving on'.

I respect that. We have not been going in a serious fashion anymore, but we still chat several times a week, and we both are keeping all options open. In fact I am planning a another visit over to Odessa. I want to take about 6 weeks off and drive the countryside, and head up eventually to St. Petersburg, but I have not really planned out everything needed for such a road trip.

In the mean time I have started a new career and have traveled to Brazil and China for business and pleasure. So I suppose you can say I have the East European, Asian and Latino culture perspective when it comes with the women.

Still unmarried, and in no real hurry to change that. However my options are open! :-)

I am also still considering real estate in Odessa. It sems inexpensive enough. We need to chat about that sometime, as I remember you were looking to purchase a flat. How did that go?

By the way I bought some knock off Armani suits in China, and I did an experiment. I wore the suits 3 times a week for two weeks, and in general I have received a much more positive reaction from everyone. I now make it a habit to wear them at least once a week.

Anyway, that is a quick update. When are you heading over again?

MNKenr

Write me   nunya@ix.netcom

Fine Italian leather john boats.

The one thing these Ukrainian women do know is fashion, or atleast try to stay abreast of.  As their, out to copy the Italians in styles and such.

So, with that said.  A real girl is going to look nice.  But, if it's going to cramp your style wear whatever you want.  But, bear in mind.

First impressions are also the most lasting.  What'cha might ought to do is get a photo of you in your flip-flops, shorts and t-shirt and show it to her and examine if she frowns, laughs or just keeps on smiling.

And just weight her response to see if she's a keeper or not.
---
How do Latin women like for you to dress ?

I would figure their more like the flip-flop, shorts and t-shirts kinda of women...

I just wonder, does that water ever gets changed. LOL.

Chicks here in the states look for guys that accessorise, and you do want to stand out from the rest of the pack.

A silver or gold lookin watch will set you apart from the guys who are wearing those cheap plastic watches.  No kidding.

If you want a beautiful wife.  It's these little things, that make the different.  Never mind it's not a Rolex.

Ya just gotta look important and your there to find a wife.
Like your on a mission from god.  The sole purpose of your trip is to find that one lady, where your going to procreate a bunch of little kids for here to tender after.

Also, make sure before you leave.  Go out and take alot of pictures of your surrounding country side.  It's like when you go there, you have no idea what the terrain is like, same would be true for this lady or ladies, as it gives you an edge over the other guys.  So what you do, take a small photo album with you.   So you show them where your from and of course, they're going to want one of these photo...even if it's just a simple photo of a country field or landscape.   What I think this does it strokes their minds of fairytale fantasy.

Just like you hear, here.  Most women don't have access to computers, or large public libraries.  I walked into the library in Kiev and was a gasped at what I saw.  It was a dump, old worn out books....which prinipally looked like volumes of propaganda cranked out by their gov't.  You can forget about finding any magazines or newspapers.

All that kind of stuff you have to buy from the vendors, as their gov't is so behind the curve it's not even funny.

So, go forth.
Get expensive looking watch and a simple photo album.

You'll have women falling over you.  No kidding, why, cause most guys arrive to those socials thinkin the women will fall all over them, but ya gotta bear in mind... if they don't speak english, your kinda hosed.

So how do you connect with pretty ones, with pictures.
And then you can imporvise with the sign language or get a translator next to you to explain what your talking about.

Ya gotta have something to talk about to put in these girls minds how interesting of a guy you are... other, your just another guy to them.

He's right on about the photo album and expecting to give at least one photo away to almost every lady you meet (at least the ones that are really, truely interested in you)...  wink  sigh

"Here's my favorite pine tree in my backyard"!

Ohhh! I want that one!

Think about it.  Some of these ladies live in these Stallin cinderblock apartments which the masses lived in.  Look at the grounds around some of those buildings, most are all dirt because there are no signs that say "keep off the grass".

This is probably why a trip out to their dacha was something to really woo about.

Kinda like how those New Yorkers think Central Park is something special (whoopie)... ya know.

These people ain't got squat...atleast the poor ones.  If a chick looks like she's a throw back from the 1960's it's probably because the dress or pant suit she's wear just might have been her mothers or maybe from someone in her villiage.  Ha.

You'll see.   Most women know what a needle and thread are over there.  And they can make their own clothes.  So, ya might check some of those ladies out that don't look rich.
Which is no doubt a good indicator they probably aren't.

And give some distance to those that look a bit too good.
---This is about what it typically looks like in Ukraine.
http://www.kremenchuk.org/archive/index-en.htm?05-01-25#nomenu

Everybody is standing out in front of a building, chit chatting with their friends, I doubt if one person from that who group owns a car and so they walk to where their going.  You'll see some women with some mighty big legs muscles!!  And some that are nice and shapely... must be in the genes, as to the pretty shapely ones must get alot of rides vs the others.

If you take time to see the panel up the main door, you can read : " Poly technical University " ... all the the people are student... and not all student have car...

If i see our western university, it is almost the same...

Before say something about a photo, learn about what is the photo

It's more like an Apartment in the ghetto of a downtown American city.

http://www.kremenchuk.org/archive/index-en.htm?05-01-21#nomenu

...Have you ever been to Krem or are you, as usual, just pulling stuff outta your hole? Why don't you post some photos of your wheeless doublewide in Hicksville with Arnold the pig and you out front so we can see how a big leaguer lives? Stop being a dumbass and have a little respect.

So, if someone is from Kyiv, Krem or the ghettos of USA.

Tellya what, I'd be consider rich in my single wide horizontal penthouse with leaf springs & axles on the side.

...is that in many ways you continually personify what's bad about this business. I usually cut you some slack because I feel (like many here I suspect) you're too much of a rube to beat on but sometimes you rankle me enough to say something. Think before you type so you don't come across as a country bumpkin, if that's at all possible. I mean come on, do you really want to emulate these folks?: www.mytrailerpark.com

Who spends more time on the internet, LP or Bill?

Finding a site like that is self explanatory !!!!! :-)

...although I'll be the first to admit the Cyclops takes up too much of my time. It's because I'm often trapped at home on my days off for professional and personal reasons. When you spend your life traveling it leaves lots of crap to do when you're home and sometimes I'm on standby. Like today for example. Bill on the other hand is just a hick with all the time in the world and a 56K modem. He's lucky I even lowered myself to spank him.

That website (as with many I know of) was sent to me by someone. I keep them in all reserve for when I need to make a point or inject humor so I'm glad some enjoyed it. Besides, how much brains does it take to Google "trailer park" or anything else when you need it? Bill needs to learn the internet is much more than a global pornography network.

Know the feeling well when one has been away for a week or so. Yep, miles of *crap* to catch up on when you run your own home and without housekeeper. Those chores just never go away.

By the way, we dont have trailer parks as such, but *Caravan Parks*, and they usually, more often than not, mostly never contain permanent residents. Rules are very strict in this country regarding such; and the rules made by Associations, Owners and Managers of such Caravan Parks.

So I was never ever going to do a Google on Trailer Parks, they just dont exist in our vocab.

Who better to know where the website is at, than the creator of it.