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I just got back this past Monday from Tver.  Here is this trip report for you guys to chew on who do not read the other board as well.

A friend of mine who was supposed to drive me to the airport got an emergency beep to deliver
kidneys five minutes before he was supposed to drive me to the airport.  So, I called a car service.
Naturally, the guy was from Russia.  Anyway, I had an uneventful on time flight with Delta
(there and back no problems - but wow is the food getting worse in coach), got through customs
without a hassle and went to the red line where I wrote $2010 cash plus $300 for my camera.  In
perfect English the customs clerk told me the minimum number to declare is now $3000, so no
need for me to go to the red line unless $3000 or higher in cash with me.  So, right through the
green line I went, out in fifteen minutes maximum from when I arrived.  

V was there waiting for me w/a big smile accross her face.  She gave me a slight peck on the
cheek and we made it to the car which drove us to Tver.  The roads from Moscow to St.
Petersburg is a main road and is very clear to drive on.  They constantly clean the road for snow /
salt for ice etc.  Off of this main road is Tver, where the roads are not nearly as clean, but clean
enough for me to be driven around on them every day without hassle or delay.  The driver had a
new Lada with leather interior.  I made sure he drove us to our rest location later in the trip and
back to Moscow the day I went back to NYC.  On the way back V and I chatted about how we
missed each other, what we would be doing this trip etc.  Very rarely did we speak Russian only
to help me improve my language skills because she is an English teacher with many private
lessons / works for a company in Tver that flies her to different locations to teach Russian
businessmen how to speak English etc.  

Once in Tver I met with Richard, Elena Stupina (one of my interpreters from my last trip using
this agency) & Yaroslav, the owner of this agency.  Yaroslav took me to my flat, showed V and I
how to use the alarm and get into it etc.  Then he was off.  All I used the services of his agency
for this trip was for the rental of a flat and transportation to and from the airport.  The apartment
was a superior apartment for Tver standards with a big nice kitchen including a microwave oven
and automatic drip coffee maker.  The living room had a large pull-out full size sleeper sofa and
was well furnished.  The other room had a single bed that was made for me.  Each bed had a
large Russian pillow that I like so much.  Brand new sheets and numerous toiletries were in a
closet in the event I forgot any.  I tried some of the shaving cream and a mild soap while I was
there primarily to try something new.  The new sheets came in very handy.  The location of this
apartment was in the center of the city near the Osnabruk hotel.  There was no need for a hot
water heater because the central hot water worked fine.  Heat was also no problem while I was in
Tver.  

V and I then went out to cash money.  The rate was 28.10 rubles to the dollar.  That is what I
always paid except for one time at night where I went tot the Volga hotel and got 28.  After that I
registered my visa for the whole time I would be there in the central hotel for 380 rubles.  Divide
28 into that to know how much I paid to register my visa for my stay in Tver (about $14).  On the
way home V and stopped at the Volga hotel for dinner.  V did not like the food at all.  I thought it
was ok, but then again my favorite place in Tver is Slavonskya, a place despised by all
Americans and most Russian girls.  We got back to my room and phenomenal physical chemistry
took over.  This blossomed throughout my stay.  I’ll leave the rest to your imagination about this
topic, but will add that my experience with V was filled with mutual passion, excitement and joy.
V’s body and look was much different than my last voluptous playboy center fold girl from St.
Petersburg.  V is about my height and lean with a lot more stuff in her upper body than I thought
when she was nude - which I was pleasantly suprised with.   V was confident with her body and
had no problem walking around / being passionate in the nude with the lights on etc.  She was
tight and in shape, the way one would expect a woman soon to be 25 to be.  V always went home
to her family when I was in Tver.  One night she stayed until 2 am, but she always wanted to
please her fairly conservative family.  V was married before to a horrible RM and wanted out of
Russia primarily because she hated the culture of RM cheating on their wives, often telling them
about their girlfriends etc.  

I arrived on a Friday.  The next day, Saturday I went to meet V’s parents.  V arrived at 10:30 or
so.  I always gave her money to take a taxi home late at night.  When she came to me she would
take the minibus.  Anyway, that Saturday her dad would pick us up at 12.  V was especially
worried that morning when she arrived.  She looked at my suit, which was acceptable and ironed
my shirt.  I said it looked fine - but she said her parents would be very mad at her if I did not
present myself well.  I had a nice black Italian suit and a sharp tie with good shoes I brought
along for just this occassion.  Her dad picked us up and drove us around prior to going to their
house.  I bought her sister a picture address book of NYC in the airport, which was nice but
outrageously priced at $8.  For her Dad, who I had heard from V loved coffee, I bought a top of
the line automatic drip coffee maker equipped with a plug for Russian electric - which I could
naturally only find in Brighton Beach.  I got V a battery powered nail care kit, with 7 different
attachments so she could do her nails professionally herself.  On the way to the house we stopped
at Antek to wrap the presents.   V let me use her Antek discount card and stepped away until all
the presents were wrapped so not to see any of them.  I had her dad stop on the way there so I
could get her mom flowers.  We had a nice meal of Russian food I like.  It was a big spread of
caviar, black bread, salmon, ham, cheese, pickles, salad without being drenched in mayonaise.  V
made sure everything was not smothered in cmetan or mayonaise since she knew I could only
tolerate a little of it due to my obsession with health as well as my taste buds.  I saw a lot of her
family pictures and brought some of my family and house as well.  We drank Stolichnaya
peppered vodka - hot stuff, but a family tradition for them.  Luckily, dad was driving so we only
had three toasts.  I was happy I did not have to get rip roaring drunk with him.  I learned a lot of
their family history.  We then had chicken soup and some sort of pork cutlet smothered in cheese.
I ate it all, though I wish I could have smeared off the top of the heart attack on a plate - usually
would, just not this time.  Late in the day we left.  I felt relieved that I was well received.  V was
relieved as well - probably more than I.  

I helped her with her English classes Su, M and Tuesday, speaking with her top students.  The
days went by so fast up until our Wednesday excursion to the “rest house.”  Wednesday V was at
my place at 9 to get me up, running errands while I got up.  A blue Audi took us to Zavidovo,
about an hour out of Moscow.  Supposedly a place for diplomats, it was really not that expensive
for what we got, for I had wanted to go skiing and she wanted to go swimming plus do other
activities all at one place - so I agreed to this place.  For me, anything additional is a waste of
money - but it was an excellent vacation place.  I figured it would be a time to get V out of her
mothers grips anyway, so it was worth it to me.  Plus, I was giving her a real vacation, albeit a
small one.  I paid about $200 per day at this place for everything - and got back Saturday at 1 or
so.  

In Tver V almost never liked the food when I went with her to restaurants.  Besides hating the
Volga hotel food, she hated my favorite place Slavonik when I dragged her in there for lunch one
day.  Rima café was acceptable to her, for all that is worth.  We got things at local “Kulinariyas”
throughout the time in Tver which were borderline acceptable to V, fine with me.    I did not
mind anything, though the pork loaf stuffed with mushrooms and sauteed onions was particularly
bad tasting to V.  V did like when I cooked her some eggs with cheese and ham one morning.  V
always did the dishes and cleaned up as well as make me eggs usually in the morning etc.  I
mention money often because I firmly feel a good Russian woman will do everything possible to
preserve a man’s money.  I feel I did not spend an excessive amount of money, but we had many
situations where I had to spend more money than I had wanted to.  

It snowed most days, but the accumulation did not usually amount to much in any one fall.  It
was the cumulative effect which added up.  This is a particularly warm winter and it was fairly
easy for us to get around.  Russians do not mind the snow the way we do in New York City.  It
doesn’t bother me as well - I guess why in part I like Russia so much.  Anyway, Wednesday
morning we went to Zavidovo.  Ahead of time I planned the trip with her despite the cost
knowing I would definitely be in the same bed with her for the whole trip at least.  As luck had it,
I had already gotten what any guy wants in my perfectly acceptable flat in Tver.  So, the trip was
just a money sinkhole for me.  We spent every day waking up late, lingering at the breakfast
buffet and then in the nice pool, Turkish bath, sauna until back to the room for an excellent
dinner at the Hunter’s lodge.  V had brought lunch for the first day with her and then I just had
her take an extra piece or two of fruit plus whatever gum and nuts I had brought with us to pass
any hunger pangs until dinner.  Dinner was always extravagant.  I highly recommend eating in
the Hunter’s lodge if you go to this place for a vacation with your girl.  It is worth it just to see
the animal heads on the walls (hunting trophies) and stuffed animals throughout the rooms.
Shosha style is the type of food here.  Game is cooked on & borsch is cooked with / over a
sauerkraut type of cabbageie. A unique “kapusta” which was very good.  Zavidovo is located at
the intersection of the Volga and Shosha rivers.  

I went cross country skiing with V one day.  Her dad is from the Archangelsk region, so she
learned how to cross country ski extremely well from him.  That was our only “extra” besides
food.  It cost 400 rubles to rent the equipment (shoes, skis and poles) and cross country ski
around a well laid out course.  Cross country skiing will really run up a sweat if you have not
done it before, and I was all tired out in an hour or so.  It was really warm when I was there,
about -15 C ; really no problem at all for most of you readers contemplating a trip in the near
future.   The rest of the time we were in the pool, Turkish bath and sauna.  At Zavidovo one can,
if one wants to pay extra, go trap shooting, ice-fishing, hunting for whatever is in season,
horseback riding, indoor target shooting w/pistol or two other types of rifles I was not sure of (I
wanted to do this on the last day but ran out of time) .  We spent a lot of our spare time taking
pictures around the hotel as well as talking about the future / Russia / pop singers, her past,
Russian men in general, my past etc.  

V’s biggest fear is that I would be like a typical RM and cheat on her.  She realizes my biggest
fear is that she will try to A. use me to get out of her large prison; B.  Marry me to get a green
card and then C.  Try to suck as much out of me as she can in an eventual divorce.  

We got back from Zavidovo around 1 pm.  I told V I had to check my email at Behappy’s office
and would meet her at 5.  I came home too late to reserve a table at any decent restaurants.  From
1:30 until about 3, Diana, the other Behappy translator I had worked with the last time helped me
find a nice ring for V.  It had some small diamonds and was gold.  It was less than $50 with a
nice box.  Believe me - she was more than thrilled to get it when I gave it to her Saturday night.
If we really end up marrying, I’ll get her a more expensive / nicer ring here in the USA some day.
So, Saturday night was Valentine’s day night.  I had brought a fleece for her (mistake to buy
clothes - it turned out to be a bit large on her), gave her one of those IGA things to help her shave
her legs etc. easier and of course the small ring which she really liked best of all.  It was after I
gave her the ring that I told her I wanted to match with her.  Of course she accepted....we pretty
much were matched pending physical chemistry which we had confirmed repeatedly earlier in the
week.  This was just finalizing it symbolically more than anything.  

Sunday we again went to her parents for lunch.  Everything was more relaxed the second time
than the first time.  Her Dad was not driving that day so I had a lot of vodka with him.  Luckily,
V eventually took whatever was left in the bottle away so we stopped drinking.  We had all the
usual seafood auderves I like - salmon, trout, calamari salad (too much mayonaise), bread, her
mother’s borscht, followed by mashed potatoes, carrots and roast pork loin.  Sunday night her
parents had no problem with me spending the night with her.  I forgot to mention her parents got
me a Russian Samovar.  I bought myself a set of six nice shot glasses and an accompanying
carafe for the trip home.  All my presents made it home ok.  

A big mistake I had made was developing digital photos in Tver.  I did it in Dima’s studio, across
from the Antek.  Dima is an old LTP photographer who did fiancé visa photos for V and I.
Sunday night V filled out the 325-A form and wrote a letter saying how she had met me and why
she wanted to marry me etc.  I had gotten the certified translated copies of her birth certificate
and divorce certificate while I was there as well.  Anyway, digital photos are a lot more
expensive to develop in Russia than the USA.  I wanted V to have the photos of us so I bit the
bullet.  The photos ended up costing more than her ring (I had a bunch of my house plus all the
shots we took in Tver and Zavidovo) - but such is life.  Sometimes one has to bite the bullet for
memories.  

Monday V accompanied me to the airport.  I got in early to the airport and compiled all this to
give back to all of you guys.  Because of Zavidovo I spent a lot more than I should have, but it
was another excellent trip.  I plan on trying to visit V again in June or July, while getting in the
fiancé visa paperwork hopefully around March 1.  The dollar is really coming down - it is a
problem which will affect all of us, especially this summer I suspect, so start saving some extra
dollars now to make up for the loss of purchasing power you all will experience.

... in response to Trip report from Tver, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 18, 2004

I have read your many posts and recall the ups and downs and your trip report was a great read.  Congrats. Tim

... in response to Trip report from Tver, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 18, 2004

Bobby Orr,
Very nice report.  Thanks for sharing.  I always have wondered just exactly what being "matched" means.  Is it a PRE-engaged staus?  Or are you engaged?
KenC

... in response to Very nice, posted by KenC on Feb 19, 2004

I have such a poor track record in comparison with guys like you who do it once and get it right that I prefer the term "matched" because things always somehow have gone south for me.  Until she gets here I prefer the term matched over engaged, but it is just semantics.  So far she is very gung ho, but sometimes time and distance are tough things to overcome.  I also am very worried about the atomosphere in Tver right now.  Sure there are many pretty girls around like elsewhere in the FSU.  However, it is like a shark tank with three agencies openly hostile to each other. One agency is only all too happy to poison the mind of a girl that is committed and matched to a guy in a competing agency.  It is a small enough city that everyone can find out about everyone else - and that is where problems can arise.  I still believe the road less traveled is better for meeting the girl - but it sure is convenient if one finds a girl in a place close to a travel center like Moscow.

... in response to Trip report from Tver, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 18, 2004

What?  There is another board that intelligent men read in hopes of finding a good Russian woman?

Hockeyguy, you have certainly paid your dues. You have gone about the pursuit for a good Russian woman with as much determination and sincerity as anyone I know and if anyone's time is due, it is yours.

Wish you all the best.

... in response to Trip report from Tver, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 18, 2004

Excellent report and mostly well written.  Sorry, I didn't read any of your earlier reports, nor any posted on the other site you mentioned, so I don't know who V is, nor how much time you had spent with her previously.

Quite strange the situation that V and her parents ruled the roost in disallowing her stay overs at your place, but yet knew full well what would happen on your mini vacation trip with her.  And, after giving the ring, then it was OK with all concerned.  :-))

I was very surprised at her reaction to liking the $50 ring.  Usually, all women make a big fuss over that item (particularly the Russian and Ukrainian women) and would label you the dreaded 'greedy' over the small ring.

I was glad to see that you were concerned with the money issue and tried to limit your spending.  So many of the guys go hog wild while over there with the money and make it hard for the rest of us who are not cheap or stingy but just trying to be realistic.

Not that you can do anything about it under the circumstances, but from my many years of experience with many women (not bragging), you really can't get the correct picture of how sex is going to play out with them from spending just a couple of weeks with them.  They, and probably we guys also, are a very complex bunch and things can change dramatically after a few months.  But at least a little experience with them is better than the stupidity of waiting until after a marriage.

... in response to Re: Trip report from Tver, posted by Albert on Feb 18, 2004

I think it was as much V playing the game with her parents as anything.  I just think it is always better to test drive the car before buying it.  Time will tell what really happens, but things are right so far.  Money is always a big issue and I wanted to make sure the girl likes me for me and not perceived wealth.

... in response to Playing the game, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 18, 2004

Bobby-

I wish you both the best of luck!!
Hopefully this is the one !

I have to admit though-
I do wonder sometimes on the tactics to avoid the wealth perception.

i understand your reasoning of course!
we all want to be cared for , for being "us" not what we posess.

You have been there on a lot of trips,,

I am sute you are well aware the common mindset of a young FSU woman and what all her friends and family tell her every day 24/7 of her loife before and after your visit.

her perception of your *relative wealth*
will not likely be changed by how you act or do in the FSU.
as to most anyone you have dated there ,there perception of your financial situation is fairly well  "set"

only her perception of *you* will be different.

I am not suggesting you spoil her or whatever.

i am simply stating some of the "tests" you seem to use now
, and in,the past,
would be viewd quite differently by any FSU woman who is faitrly sharp witted.

they know quite well that while travelking to FSU several times, wearing your nice italian suit, what resturants you can ,or cant ,
afford to take a girl you are sincerely interesting
in becoming engaged to..
and your every little choice and decision
reflects to her about your character and what that means to her future life..
or at least what babushka will tell her.

he may view you as shrewd and clever...
and she may view you as greddy and cheap..

but its highly iunlikely ahe will percieve you as any more or less wealthy..

just a thought from someone who has read and appreciated your T/r over a few yeares -

but seen a regular topic that is at the very heart of many RW minds when looking over a prospective beau
*shrugs*

and hey what do i know anyway?
i'm poor so dont have to worry over it .. ;)

Good luck man!

3 or 4's the charm!! ? :)

... in response to Re: Playing the game, posted by AJ277 on Feb 21, 2004

I agree with you that for the most part cutting out of expensive places and restaurants as much as possible does not change their perception of me other than to perhaps think I am cheap - but I would rather find a girl who knows she has to appreciate the value of a dollar than a girl who thinks I am a money tree.  Maybe how I conduct myself makes no difference and only hurts me, but it does make me feel better - and I do think I have been able to rapidly eliminate any girl with any thoughts of gold digger in her mind by consistently going to dives, especially when meeting them for the first two or three dates.  Once I know how they are, then I spring a bit - but I make sure they know I am only a middle class guy, and if they are looking for a rich guy to get lost etc.

... in response to Agree with you, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 22, 2004


B-
hard to deny that it works, and the most important factor.
that it is *you* -

and after all that is who she needs to know and understand!!

******************
guess i was just thinking aloud that you *may* have passed up a lot of serious and sincere women-
that know thier value and have fairly high self esteem--  and would be offended by your actions, in any country or culture, and even more likely so in the FSU.

of course it also means you quickly got rid of any girl with thoughts of golddiggin i suppose.

not foolproof mind you ;) some are pretty sharp and patient,
but likely effective.

In my mind it just brought out the
"throw out the baby with the bath water"
phrase,
as it is such an important issue culturally in the FSU
and i have to believe you have lost a lot of really good oppurtunities in the first ten minutes with this approach.
First impressions are lasting, and often you domt get a second chance.

what if the girl did this to you?
acted a bit cold or arrogant at first, even if she wasnt , to weed out the chaff of guys on a sex tour?
or not so seriuos?

i know i'd move on immediately.Why waste time if i'm unsure he feelings or character- its a situation that time doesnt allow to follow thru and see if shes "testing"
as first impresions in this scenerio are likely even more important than in a more traditional setting?

B- I think you would move on quickly as well

Since most RW are far more intelligent than me,
I have to think many FSU women would do the same,

at least the ones who have real and varied oppurtunities.
They dont need to be tested or play the game,
and those where the ones i was interested in so i had to have a different approach.
Treat them just like i would if they were here already and dating.not overbopard but the same level orf respect, courtesy and choice of what and where to go.
leaving the ideals of my situation and education of what the 'west " and nmy personal situation finacially,
to after the initial impression , after they knew my character ,,and i thiers ..
*shrugs*

that left me possibly weeding a GCG or gold digger  out later in the process ,
but not offending a more "regular" RW thats primary goal wasnt relocation and just looking for a good guy.
well its a "plan " anyway... and you know what happens toi the best laid plans of mice and men....lol

we all have our approaches though, none are "right or wrong" just different.

... in response to Trip report from Tver, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 18, 2004

Good comprehensive report Bobby. Glad to hear it went well with V. Maybe wedding bells soon (smile).