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I used to hunt a lot in Mexico, muye grande deer. At night we would go into whatever local cities were close and drink, dance with the many fine young ladies happy to see us gringo's. (those were some fun and exciting days). The problem as I saw it in comparing these Mexican ladies with fsu ladies is where all the tamales and tacos were going in these Mexicans ladies once they hit 30.

Senior Zorrow, and/or senior Wizard, with respect to Mexican/Latin ladies I was wondering if they were that much different than Russian ladies. How long would you think you should know one of these ladies before asking her to marry you?  How many visit's, how much time together, do you visit the families first? Let's say you wrote one Mexican lady for a couple of months, then flew to Monterrey to meet her for the first time. If you liked this lady how long would the average guy wait before he asked the average Latin lady to marry him?

Not sure how I got included in your post, but I'll bite...

As you well know, there are the whackos that propose marriage to a girl after meeting them for the first time... These are the same guys that cry foul after they have "bought the cow" and scream scammer once they realise they don't know the person they married... Doesn't matter if the girls are from the FSU, Latin America, Asia or Katmandu... And just what does it say about a woman who would accept a marriage proposal from someone they have just met??? Hmmm...

Then there are those of use who are more rational in our behaviour... You take the time the date, yes, date a girl, get to know the family, absorb their culture and appreciate them for who they are... Then and ONLY then should a person even consider marriage...

I had considered searching / traveling to the FSU early on in this endeavor... I had always wanted to travel to the FSU for pleasure, to absorb the culture and differences between our societies... Like most of us, I grew up in the Cold War era where the FSU was known as the evil empire... Could these people and their idiology be that different than ours??? Well, after many false starts and a few email scammers along the way, I abandoned my desire to search in the FSU... I then began to focus on Latin America for many reasons... One main factor is that I could travel to many locations in Latin America from my home in less than 5 hours... Try going anywhere in the FSU from the US in that time frame, NOT...

I can't speak for the "average" guy, but I knew my wife for 8 months before we were married... Because of my schedule, I was able to spend 1 week every month with mi novia in Latin America... When not together, we emailed / spoke on the phone daily... Had my fiance been in the FSU, I would not have been able to afford the time / expense to spend this much time together... I met her family, friends and co-workers... I can actually say that we were prepared for the future BEFORE I popped the question... A luxury that many men in this pursuit cannot claim...

As far as  chicas adding pounds to the lower extremities after hitting 30... Well, my wife is over thirty, 5'3" tall and weighs 92lbs... She eats twice as much as I do and never puts on a pound... Like the old saying goes, if you want to know what a girl will look like in 20 years, just look at her Mother...

After all, it's all about picking the right girl...

Sorry to be so long-winded, I justed wanted to cover the topic...

Mark

Just trying to see, or get other opinion's, from guys who were familiar with Latin ladies.

As I read your comments, as other guys have commented on, it appears there is little difference between what is considered the norm in dating, proposing to Latin women as compared to Russian women.

Jack, you ask a lot about averages for this and that, but I don't think anyone can make a definitive statement. Do you have those averages worked out for guys operating in the FSU? If so, does anyone really follow them?

Personally, anyone who goes to a foreign culture AND DOESN'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE and gets engaged in a short period is a few beets short of a borsht, be it Russian, Asian or Latin. Family is VERY important in most parts of the world, so getting to know my future in-laws, cousins, etc. is one way to know your gf. I have done this the hard way and have been going down for a year and a half now because I will not marry someone I don't know. I wouldn't do it here, and I won't do it because it's expedient with a foreign woman. I will say that sometimes I really think I am nuts to go through this process, but when I think about the gem of a woman who wants to marry me and the future we will have together and because I KNOW HER I don't have real doubts.

I do have the impression that the FSU bride search is riskier due to organized scams. It seems that among latins, it's more on a personal level: guy moving too quickly meets woman willing to use that to her advantage.

Dos vedanyas
(How much is una vedanya?)

...Good post, especially about the language part. If guys put a tenth of the effort into learning it that they do with other things they could kiss the entire MOB thing off. They could simply go there and meet women. For every woman on an agency there are hundreds who're interested in meeting foreigners but too embarressed to advertise themselves like so much meat. And for each one of them there are thousands more who still have an interest in "exotic" foreign men (same as we see them as women). My experience along these lines suggests you already have the advantage as a foreigner and speaking the language makes meeting non MOB women a cake walk.

Learning the lingo frees you from nearly everything that makes this business stink. Agencies, translation charges, misunderstandings, on and on. Not to mention opening up a larger pool of sincere women, permitting better freedom of movement abroad, and allowing you to converse with someone's friends and family. It might also help the confidence problem many MOB men seem to suffer around women in general. And a new language stays with you forever, something your MOB bride may not.
Why more don't do it has always been a mystery to me, it's power to solve problems should be glaringly obvious.

I agree with you, LP--learning Russian is definitely worth it.  But it's not easy.  It's not like learning Spanish.  So I can understand why a lot of guys don't do it.

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

Let's face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger. Neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are
candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat. We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? One index, 2 indices? Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend.

If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them,what do you call it? If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, are humanitarians cannibals?

Sometimes I think all the English speakers should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane. In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? And why doesn't Buick rhyme with quick?

While I would never advocate such a thing, The Pimsluer lessons are all over the file-sharing world - should you choose to go that route :)

Ken Williams

Now I'm doing more nitty-gritty stuff--grammar, writing, noun cases, etc.  When I go back and listen to Pimsleur now, I actually understand it a lot better--I understand a lot of the constructs they use a lot better.

Pimsleur is a great starting point and if you're only going to spend a little time learning Russian, you get your best "bang for the buck" with Pimsleur.  If you're serious, though, you eventually have to move to something else.

(because lord knows, a few CD's in a cheap plastic case are well worth 300 bucks!)

;P

Ken WIlliams

I studied Arabic at DLI and I remember when my friends studying russian were introduced to the motion verbs: they looked absolutely shell-shocked. I remember they said that during the first few weeks they had been using "eetee."

It could be worse: Korean has 16 pronouns!

Finnish is supposed to be the hardest of the "western" (non-Asian) languages.  It has twelve noun cases in the singular and thirteen in the plural.  In Finnish, the word "not" (as in "I will not eat broccoli) conjugates like a verb.  "I not", "you not", "they not" are all different foms of the word "not".

Those verbs of motion are confusing.  I still can't use some of them correctly--Russian speakers tell me I am using the wrong one for what I am describing.  The "ooh" and "pre" ones are pretty easy and easy to understand.  Fortunately, the Russians I've met are pretty forgiving of my broken Russian.

I know some things are tough but that's what makes them (for me) rewarding. And in this case the practical rewards outweigh study involved. Learning new things is hard, it takes effort and in my experience most people would rather die than think. It cracks me up how many people feel the things they want most in life oughta come easy. And when it doesn't, they blame everyone else. One should do whatever it takes to be a cut above and get the job done, no matter the price.

But one doesn't need to be fluent and much of the grammar can be ignored at first. My point was a guy should at least learn enough to free himself from the MOB shackles, enough to communicate with everyday people. Body language takes care of the rest, in any country.

Tailor the depth of learning to the mission, in this case it doesn't have to be as far as you're going. I sound like a total idiot when I speak the language but all the women I've met understand me just fine. They know how difficult (be sure you tell them how difficult) it is and when you show them you've made the effort it seldom goes unappreciated.

Karl

'Do svidania' is equivalent to 'hasta la vista' (which is what it literally means in translation) or 'hasta luego'.  Equivalent to farewell is proshchai, accent on the last syllable.

Anyway, I realize that it is difficult for foreign people to learn Russian, although it is different from country to country.  Many Germans seem to be able to learn it fairly well, of course Poles and other Slavs.  I can tell though, that if a Russian person meets a foreigner who can speak their language, he (or she) will be profoundly impressed.  

So, good luck to anyone who is serious about doing this!

I have stated I know nothing about how to suggest a man find a RW, and that's true, I spent many years as an ex-pat, I got married the old fashioned way, I chased her until she caught me in a weak moment and I said something stupid, hence, I'm married. The union has produced two children who are the light of my life, and I wouldn't trade a single minute of it for all the rice in China.  

Regarding your post about age differences, I agree with you 100%, no woman in her right mind wants an old duffer to push around in a wheelchair.  Of all my wife's friends still in Russia, single women, not one of them would consider a man 20 years her senior, it's just not normal to their way of thinking.  My oldest boy is dating a girl 5 years his junior and they feel that's a stretch.

Keep up the good work, shining light into dark corners may not win you friends, but it will earn respect when the chips are down.  Been there, done that.

Hmm its is possible but not a given?

my friend and family are very supportive.My mother and father couldnt be happier.

a few friends have thought it odd or had misunderstandings and stereotypes,,
but my good friends took the time to find out why i would marry someone from another culture/country, and trusted in that i wouldnt unless i felt it was a good thing.

My grandmaorthr was very excited to meet her. and thought it was great,she passed away before the visa came thru.

*************
as for age differences, i agree on average..
and of course 20 years is a LOT, its another generation!

however 5 years is certainly not "pushing the envelope"
in any country or culture.
a 25 year old man married to a 20 year old woman will not get a second glance or a comment anywhere on this planet.

lets "keep it real"