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Well, just met another new AM/RW couple…and I do mean NEW!  The woman (32) and her child (8) arrived on a K-1 visa about 2 weeks ago.  She’s pretty depressed (kid doing OK).  She hates the food, the house, the town…pretty much everything.  She spoke extensively with my wife, who did her best to convince her to stick out the 90 days to see how things work out (she was ready to go back).  My wife’s advice was to view the 90 days as a vacation at worst, and at best she might get married.  My wife gave her several Russian video tapes which appeared to be a godsend to this woman.

Interestingly, she’s one of those RW who dislikes cooking and cleaning.  She told my wife she hated everything in the house and would like to trash everything and fill it with new stuff.

Probably the biggest problem is that she was thinking that every place was like NYC, and that just ain’t so.  These city girls (she’s from Moscow) have a real tough time getting used to suburban/town living and how very different it is from big city living (which it seems most of them aspire to).  From my very brief interaction with the prospective husband and wife, I give them a 50/50 chance of success (by that I mean just getting married…no bets after that).

We’ll be keeping an eye on them to see how things work out.

Stevo

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

Interesting story.  Still, it depends on who you are, where you live, and how your "squeeze" relates.  Mine is from a city larger than Chicago.  I'm in the burbs 35 miles and an hour by car or train from the big city.  Yet....there are millions of things to do here, from theateres, restaurants, museums, canoe trips, nature walks, a golf course a mile away, and many things big cities don't or can't offer.  There is absolutely no crime here, great schools...but you have to drive everywhere, like most places in this country...except big cities.  However, big cities also give you the multi-racial communities, and high crime rates.  Mind you, I'm not opposed to multi-racial communities, but there's a price to pay.  (Also, my squeeze is a good driver)

Mine is a concert pianist, but probably wouldn't get first, second or third piano in the Chicago Symphany Orchestra.  But, she could teach piano for $25.00 per half hour.  She knows exactly where I live, and says a "bedroom community"
sounds wonderful to her, with a city close by for a visit every 2 weeks or month.  She's more worried about her little girl's education, which would be well looked after.

At the end of the day, everyone is different, desires are varied, wants are a big question mark till they get here.  Some love it, some don't.

Anyone can be taken.  So, make sure you marry your best friend.  Not that that is a panacea for success, but is a good start.

... in response to It All Depends on Who You Choose..........., posted by Globetrotter on Jul 29, 2003

Dang!! That's good! I get paid $25 per hour ($12.50 per half hour). Man I wish I had it that good down here.

... in response to $25 per half hour!?!&@&^%%....., posted by Frank O on Jul 29, 2003

Frank, move to Chicago.  For $12.50 per hour, you can teach me guitar....be pickin with the best of them in 20 or so years.

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

Life in NYC, especially Brooklyn is alot closer to life in the average small Russian city than anywhere in the USA - with something like Moscow (Manhattan) just a subway wide away.

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

There is the big lure of the cities for those who live in the country.  For many reasons, akin to our Industrial Revolution, when many rural people moved to the cities...for work, better pay and the excitment and possibilites of city living.

I have a friend for years who is a very bright intelligent girl (excellent English) who grew up in a small town about 300 miles south of Archangelsk.  About 30,000 people.  While going to school she also worked for the Tax Dept and made about $60 per month.  She loved her little town and family and all that,  but she knew that after graduating with her red diploma that she could do much better in a big city.  

So,  she moved to St Petersburg ( a couple days ride on a train)and moved in with her older sister and spent 2 months looking for a job.  It was disappointing.  And she found the city to be a stark combination of beauty and ugliness.  And she was greatly homesick for her little town of Ustag.

Finally, after a couple months she landed the type of job she wanted.  Now she works for a communications company in St Pete and makes about $300 per month.  Has her own office and computer and advises the company on tax's.  3 months ago she and her sister bought an apartment...she has done quite well during the 3 years we have known each other.  It appears one can do better in the big city and she now likes it very much.

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

Stevo,
The story you tell here is an important one for a man considering a RW wife.  In many respects, it mirrors the experiences that I encountered with my ex-wife.  Although my ex is a decent and good person, she could not (and didn't try too hard, BTW) to adjust to suburban living.  And I live in an upscale bedroom community within a 25 minute train commute to NYC.  My ex much preferred the comfort of living within the Russian community that has developed within Brooklyn, where one does not ever have to learn a word of English.

Like many women, my ex had a distorted vision of real life here in the US.  And this is in spite of the fact that she was already living here in the US for about 3 months when I met her!  It goes to show how difficult the transition process is for some women.  I tried to make her less homesick by sending her home for a couple of advance parole vacations to see her family, and she spent lots of time visiting her friends in Brooklyn (almost every day), but in the end she just hated living in suburbia.

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

These two may not have made the right choices.  What was your wifes impression of the ladies character?  Any "gut instincts" there?

... in response to Interestingly, she’s one of those RW who..., posted by ChrisNJ on Jul 29, 2003

quite normal.  She thinks the guy is rather 'strange'.  An opinion that I tend to share.

... in response to Wife's opinion is that the woman is very..., posted by Stevo on Jul 29, 2003

the dude...  Don't just leave us hanging wondering.

... in response to Wife's opinion is that the woman is very..., posted by Stevo on Jul 29, 2003

Now that could have a little something to do with it.

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

Your wife's advice to her is nice.  But,  if after 2 weeks this Moscow "lady" is wearing the attitude you describe?  Get her a one-way ticket...to Moscow.  If she is like this now,  what will she be like in a couple years?

... in response to Honestly,, posted by tim360z on Jul 28, 2003

crying the first couple of weeks, and she DID hate the food and my house and where she lived.  But she stuck it out for both her and her daughter's future.  And we got over that HUGE cultural gap.  Guys that haven't gone through this gut wrenching process haven't got a clue how difficult it is for both these ladies and for themselves!  There were plenty of times when I wanted to send her back.

Stevo

... in response to Well, to tell you the truth, my wife did..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

This is interesting...

My wife *loves* the food here. Even Mexican food!

In 8+ months, I have never once thought about sending her back.

Now... she has had moments of some homesickness. True. And the cultural gap was huge.

But, mainly, she missed her family, friends, and being able to communicate everything she wanted to... instead of being limited by a new language...

Just goes to show how different every situation is, I gues...

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

You guys just don't get it.  Put yourself in her shoes.

This girl's life in Moscow is 180* degree out from American life in suburbia.

I'll bet her life consisted of walking 1/2 a mile to the metro station and being highly mobile via that means of transist.

Where as where she's at now, she's got to be driven everywhere if she wants something.  Our society is quite constrained compared to hers in Moscow where on the Metro line there is a abunancy of shops and in American suburbia there is just a handful to pick from - the super market on the corner and maybe wal-mart. I can imagine she's like super bored, her shopping for food on a daily basis has now been tasked to once a week.

Somebody told me a while back most women are going to expect you to relocate for the THEM.  Preferably to NYC.
Somebody has planted that seed in their mind.

Remember, they think all American are rich.  You did tell her your not rich, right.. or how about did you show her pictures of your house and what's in side.

You should have told your girl that your not going to move to NYC.

I think if you live in Suburbia you should be looking for that farm girl.  She'll think she's in heaven - running indoor plumbing and electricity!  This girl will love the daylights of out you...

What do you think the city girl is going to do?
Your not bettering her lifestyle, she's looking for Donald Trump.

... in response to Re: Some of the post below are a bit wea..., posted by wsbill on Jul 28, 2003

a

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

Never been to Moscow.   But I have been to St. Pete.  Pretty City, rather modern, but infrastructure crumbling.  Had a good meal from time to time, but NEVER had a great one.  But I am from a Restaurant town, and frankly have trouble finding good food most anywhere.  But, this women just sounds like someone you would not date even here.  If she is so picky, why bother?  Now if this guy has her stuck out in the middle of nowhere, in IDAHO, well I would understand.  But most burbs in most majory or close to major cities I have seen here, if for no other reason than you can find a decent grocery store, (I found non in St. Pete) should be a step up, I would think.  If she wants NYC, then that is where she should have looked for a husband, and frankly I have to think the person she is here visiting had to give her some idea of where he lived.  Hummmmmmm

Robert D.

... in response to Re: Another one bites the dust?...Don't ..., posted by Robert D on Jul 28, 2003

ggg

... in response to Another one bites the dust?...Don't know..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

Thank you for the post. Usually when we hear about a breakup, we don't get details and therefore can't understand why it happened. But you framed it so people can learn. This sounds somewhat like the Green Acres show, or The Beverly Hillbillies, although those are stereotypical exaggerations. They represent on one level the clash between two cultures: hick rural and jet-set urban. And that sounds like the essence of the trouble affecting the couple you describe, though it's probably not so extreme. Right now the Muscovite has severe culture shock; part of it is that she's in another country and another is that she is in a town instead of a city. The videotapes reconnect her with her sorely missed life. All bets are off that she can stick it out...

... in response to Green Acres/Beverly Hillbillies, posted by Scaught on Jul 28, 2003

Connecticut, which is about as far from Green Acres as you can get in the New England area.  The problem is that no matter how many photos you send or what you describe in letters, the majority of these ladies cannot comprehend what a non-city/suburban lifestyle is like.  They think EVERYTHING is like NYC.  Here, they can't even get out of the house without relying on their husband-to-be, let alone go out shoppiong by themselves.

... in response to Just to calibrate things, we're talkin' ..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

I live in Massachusetts about 2 hours north of Cape.Population about 80,000.

My wife loves this place and wish it were even less people and less cars on the streets.That was from day one...And especially now,that she drives...

And she is from Bishkek,Kyrgyzstan where population was about 1 and 1/2 million...

She came here and has no desire what-so-ever to leave...
Calls her family in Russia with call card every month or two and doesn't even have a desire to visit there all that often...Once in almost 3 years...

In fact I brought her to Brighton Beach NYC Brooklyn a couple of weekends ago and she thought it was dirty,congested and full of ignorant people...Said she does not miss Russian people at all...I thopught it was cool...

Guess it depends on the lady...Mine is like a clam in a shell here in USA...

... in response to That's So Interesting..., posted by RickM on Jul 29, 2003

I have to agree with you.  It really depends on the woman. My wife is from Crimea and loves everything about California, me, the food, the people, where we live, the recreation....everything.  She doesn't miss Ukraine at all only her family.  She only calls a couple of times per week for about an hour total.  She figures she'll visit home once every few years.  She's not in a hurry to get her license or drive she's perfectly happy with me driving her everywhere. She's an absoulte dream.  No my previous Russian wife from Moscow, who btw was an English instructor at a college in Moscow and had travelled Western Europe was extremely homesick for the first two years she was in the US.  She was under a doctor's care for depression and I was sending her home for visits constantly.  So it really comes down to the individual, and no one nows how the woman will react until she gets here.

Mark

... in response to Re: That's So Interesting..., posted by tbirdjoy on Aug 1, 2003

My wife has been here for since July 2000 and she still has a hard time dealing with life here, despite two extensive vacations back home.  I think a lot has to do with her mother and grandmother still being over there.  If her grandmother died and her mother moved to the US, Marina would likely never go back home, despite her dislike for American life.

Of course, the Inland Empire area is kind of like the armpit of California, so my wife has no love of this state.  We are looking forward to returning back to Iowa in a couple of months.  Then, we might settle down for a while.

I'm pretty pleased with the upcoming move myself.  No more smog, excessive fees, and idiot politics.  I heard on the radio that they expect over 200 candidates for governor, if Davis gets recalled, including a porn star who wants to tax breast implants.  Shoot, that alone might balance the budget...

... in response to Just to calibrate things, we're talkin' ..., posted by Stevo on Jul 28, 2003

car and drive to the store, pull through McDonalds and get a heart-attack on a bun, walk through the cosmetic section and the meat section at Wal-Mart and pann all the isle of merchandise....

I'll bet there are some guys that are kinda worried that if they exposed too much of their life, they may think a girl might reject them.  That's a valid point...but if a girl rejected a dude cause of where he lived at, ah...well that would be perfectly alright.

NEXT!

... in response to Green Acres/Beverly Hillbillies, posted by Scaught on Jul 28, 2003

it's more hick urban and jet-set suburban.

My wife could not deal with going to the grocery store once a week.  Rather than plan ahead, she wanted to to shop once or even TWICE a day.

For the most part, the women who are attracted to us are marginally educated and come from an impoverished environment.  They have the certainty of opinion that a life without  reflection affords.  If you're not prepared to deal with that you'd best not ante.

That's just the opinion of a man about to be divorced.  I could be wrong.    :-)

... in response to In my experience you.ve got it right, ex..., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 28, 2003

My wife is similar in that we normally keep an almost empty fridge and make a nightly trek to the supermarket.  Even if we have leftovers, she'll want to go.  We'll pick up a carton of milk, or a box of cookies or something.  It's not so much that she wants to shop daily as it is she wants to get out of the house.  Grocery store trips are like a breath of freedom for a little lady with cabin fever...

... in response to In my experience you.ve got it right, ex..., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 28, 2003

a

... in response to In my experience you.ve got it right, ex..., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 28, 2003

one of your assertions/cultural attitudes. You wrote: "My wife could not deal with going to the grocery store once a week. Rather than plan ahead, she wanted to shop once or even TWICE a day." Whoa! Your former wife's habit of grocery shopping once per day, every day is quite the norm for either a Western or Eastern European women. It is NOT a matter of your former wife being unable to plan ahead. Rather, a typical European woman wants to shop, cook and eat fresh daily as opposed to the processed crap we eat! (Ever look at a can of our food ...... you need to be a Chemist to figure out what's in it). Any man involved in looking for an FSU woman must understand this. How do I know? I lived in Western Europe for 3 years and observed. I was married to a German lady who went to the "lebensmittel" (grocery store) daily for FRESH bread (not our "Wonder bread" crap), FRESH vice frozen fruit, vegetables and meats. When she came to the States, I willingly accomodated her daily shopping habits. For those of you who marry a traditional European woman (Western or Eastern), expect your bride to want to shop daily AND WITH GOOD REASON!

... in response to I must disagree with, posted by MtMav on Jul 28, 2003

No.  One does not need to go food shopping once or twice a day for good food here.  It is really a cultural thing and an availability problem in the FSU.  There is an abundance of good food here.  Cooked from scratch.  Unprocessed.  No junk.  4 star restaurants here get foods every other day,  not every day.  In the FSU,  one is highly constrained by the limitations of the market and it becomes a mindset.  And a routine which is not needed.  A time consuming and a stupid Russian pursuit.  A Russian myth.  Which may work in Russia.  Here?  One does not need to go to the butcher everyday,  like FSU.  One can "age" their own beef tenderloins or NY strips...not go to the butcher twice a day to see whats in stock today, right now...for today.  Anyone ever have a great steak in the FSU?  Tell me about it!

And "Planning Ahead" has never been the strong suit of Russian culture or agriculture or governments.  Uh! 5 year plans and collective farms???  

Pardon me.  But I'm 1/2 Russian and I know the Russians have a long way to go in alot of ways.  Gonna take a little time.

... in response to Re: I must disagree with you, posted by tim360z on Jul 28, 2003

I've done quite a bit of traveling around the world in my life and USA is definetly a world of it's own by comparison to Russia,Europe,Asia etc...

Most of us travel great distances at lightning speed daily because we have the ability to...something many other countries simply don't have ability to do daily...

We watch 70 tv channels here on an average and wonder why we are so imaginative and restless...Living in FSU is like watching paint dry...

Our kitchens here for most of us have cooking devices most other countries could only imagine about...

Our medical facilities,technology and abundance of available medicines blow the doors off most third world facilities...

And our food supply and size of average super-markets,malls and mini-market plazas make almost anything available at a hands reach...That's becoming true even in our rural areas...

I would not want to live anywhere else in the world...At least not now in my "earning" years...

... in response to Re: I must disagree with you, posted by tim360z on Jul 28, 2003

Good post. You have good insight and understanding
on this point.

... in response to Re: I must disagree with you, posted by tim360z on Jul 28, 2003

she was so sick of the lousy quality of the food and how difficult it was to get what you needed.  Shopping almost everyday was such a ridiculous chore for her ...hell, she hates shopping here once a week!  Western Europe may be one thing, but Russia is NOT western Europe!

She was so happy to be home and eating real food once again (especially a good Porterhouse or T-Bone).

... in response to I must disagree with, posted by MtMav on Jul 28, 2003

In my garden!   You guys might also like to learn how to raise chickens as you might learn something like how to ring a chickens neck!

Buy her a bread machine!

... in response to Re: Shop daily...., posted by wsbill on Jul 28, 2003

n/t

... in response to Re: Shop daily...., posted by wsbill on Jul 28, 2003

You most certainly don't want her to sit on your couch and get fat watching soap operas.  Do you ?

Might be a good idea if you ask a girl if she likes to garden and mess with flowers.   If she doesn't, I'd take a step back and re-evaluate her from the other ladies.

Of course the gardening idea is just a quick and easy way for her to spend her time, it's alot of fun, educational and healthy to eat what you grew, plus the savings.

Even some of you city slickers, should check out what's on the roof of your apartment buildings!  I have seen quite a few hydro gardens in NYC.