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This was posted at a Canadian oriented newsgroup. Thought I'd pass it along.

Hello!

Recently I've read a lot of discussions about Russian women made mostly by
Western men.
I just thought that you might be interested in opinion of a Russian woman.
Let's make things clear at first: I'm Russian by nationality and I was
born
in Ukraine. I have been living in my native city all my life.
Frankly speaking I've never been abroad but I know a lot about foreign
countries thanks to Internet access at home and perhaps TV.
What I think is that women of the world are not that different as you
think.
Stop believing ads of numerous marriage agencies which try to
sell as many e-mails and tours as possible. Russian women are in
completely
different conditions than other women of the world. You can't
even imagine how different our styles of living are. At first, out economy
used to be in crisis for 15 years. Now it is rising but the
results will be obvious only some years later. Our women are brought up as
housewives because that was a tradition in the past. Average
Russian\Ukrainian woman works a lot and has to do ALL the housework at the
same time. Sometimes our laws have nothing to do with reality and
sometimes they don't work, we have poor social systems and, for example,
our
pensioners get pension which equals 25 dollars per month. They
still LIVE for that money. Our minimal salary doesn't cover even a half of
all human needs - it is 35 dollars. About 50% of population here
get this salary. The highest income in my city is about $150 but average
two-room flat with kitchen, bathroom and WC costs $15.000.
People don't have a possibility to have bank accounts because they are
terribly expensive, all wages are paid in cash. We don't have credit
cards, too.
Another thing is that foreigners think that so-called "Mafia" rules our
countries. This is very funny, indeed, what are you talking about?
Where is mafia? I think NYC is ten times more dangerous than our cities.
Another myth is vodka. Your movies state that Russians drink all day long
including young girls. We usually drink only on some holidays or
special occasions. I don't mention alcoholics here because they don't need
any occasion to drink. As for me I don't drink at all, even beer.
Neither does my boyfriend.
Educational system is more than developed, higher education is almost
compulsory. You can't get even decent secretarial job without
Master's Degree. There is a high rate of unemployment. About 90% of all
boys
and girls which leave high school (we finish our full school
education at the age of 17) enter universities or institutes. Colleges are
less popular because Bachelor's Degree and lower degrees don't
give us any benefits during employment. So higher education is practically
a
must if one doesn't want to die of hunger and nobody is amazed
with it. As for schools they provide more knowledge than Western schools.
In
my school we learned 20 subjects each year. Some of the
subjects were taught for many years, others - for one or two years. Local
pupils can't choose subjects, we study everything. Here are some
of the subjects I used to study during last two years at school: Algebra,
Geometry, Chemistry, Physics, Computers, Russian Literature,
Ukrainian Literature, American Literature, English Literature, Foreign
Literature, Russian Language, Ukrainian Language, English Language,
German Language, World History, Ukrainian History, Area Study, Technical
Translation and many more.

Russian women are more cultured and polite because of upbringing -
children
are limited by dozens of rules, they don't have much freedom
and independency. I'm not sure whether all women read a lot nowadays but
usually we read some books of modern European and Russian authors.
There is NO shortage of men here. There is plenty of men, they are not
bad,
some are perfect husbands and wish to support their families as
they can. Their problem is that our salaries don't give opportunity to
secure family life, even if man occupies high position. People need
to help each other in order to make living so in general we are more
helpful
and generous.
International marriage agencies in CIS receive profiles from women who
wish
to marry only Western man. Doesn't it look strange? I'm sure
Russian women are not ready to marry anyone, they care about your
personality, appearance and abilities but they don't search for the same
in their native countries? They can find good men here but those men won't
have enough money to satisfy their needs and needs of the family.
Usually they really like Western men whom they marry (still they have a
wide
choice) but money matters are important.
The tours to Russian and Ukraine organized by marriage agencies really
make
me angry. Men are given freedom to feel themselves as at the
marketplace while choosing the proper girl from hundreds of candidates.
Girls are not property and I must admit that you WILL NEVER find
decent girls at those meetings because normal woman won't stand such
treatment, she requires a "personal" man who is interested only in her
and who decided to come that far to meet only her.
Russian women are typically not that home-based and domestic cats and they
are thought to be. Mostly women dream to have a good job AND
good family. It's not that pleasant to sit in the house 24/7 and see only
pots and pans.
Russian women are less independent, indeed, but as I've sad before it
comes
from financial conditions in which they were raised. I wish we
were more self-confident.
Our daily life here is a struggle with problems - that's why we have to be
more strong, smart and hard-working than our Western sisters, we
just have to be more tolerable and capable of surviving. In fact a child
who
is born on the territory of CIS is doomed to spend much more
efforts than citizens of Western countries to reach the same result. We
all
feel the lack of opportunities.

Unfortunately stereotypes are quite wide-spread in the world but I'm
trying
to do my best to abolish them.
If someone thought that I'm kind of arrogant, ugly, unsuccessful-it's not
true. I only want to tell you more about the reality and I tell
the truth. I'm typical Russian woman: intelligent, beautiful, working, not
single and able to earn for living on my own though my future
husband (he's my best beloved boyfriend today, aged 19) is ready to do
everything possible to make our life better. I'm a second-year
student of local university. If someone's interested in my age, I'm 18
years
old.

Ann

... in response to A Russian girls opinion., posted by Zink on Apr 9, 2003

good note.  keep posting

Robert D

... in response to A Russian girls opinion., posted by Zink on Apr 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by micha1]

Loving this post.
And the posts below of the people opinions
who did answer.
That girl was speaking for herself,
telling us what she thought were russian girls.
We are incline to think that all of the russian girls
of marrying age are on the net, waiting for guys from
the west, with their feeling of superiority,
to ask them to marry them.
Well, there are 140 millions people in Russia.
Which percentage are girls of marrying age?
If it 10%, that 14 millions, they are not all of the net
waiting for a white knight to take them to McDo or WallMart.
The same applied for Ukraine and all the other countries.
Not all of them, either, have unhappy marriage with native men.

Many of us should go over there, very humble and try to understand
that we are not savior, but also wanting to be save from whatever
we do not have.   Love and happiness, mainly.
Perhaps, we should listen more to the guys, who have hit home run.
Like the guy, who spent his honeymoon in hospital with his wife,
because of his son sickness, I did not say her son, I said HIS.
To the guy, who is wainting for his wife to give birth...etc...
Could go on and on............

... in response to A Russian girls opinion., posted by Zink on Apr 9, 2003


LONDON (Reuters) - A record-breaking knife thrower shocked viewers when one of his daggers sliced into the head of his assistant on live TV.

Circus performer Jayde Hanson, 23, was demonstrating his skills when one of his knives hit his assistant and girlfriend, 22-year-old Yana Rodianova on Thursday.

As she clutched the side of her head, horrified presenter Fern Britton shouted: "Oh my God, there is blood, quick -- get her off."

A spokeswoman for ITV's "This Morning," one of the country's most popular daytime programmes, said the wound was only "a nick".

"She's absolutely fine and recovering well," the spokeswoman said, before adding ruefully: "You don't really expect that kind of thing from a world record-holder."

Over one million viewers had been watching as Hanson, who works for the Cottle and Austen Circus, showed off how many knives he could hurl at Yana in 60 seconds.

He had been trying to emulate the pace of his world record-breaking effort of 120 knives thrown in two minutes which he achieved as part of National Circus Day on Tuesday.

"He felt confident as he has been throwing his mother's kitchen knives since the age of 10," the show said on its website before the accident.

Perhaps not surprisingly, Hanson, whose father was an elephant tamer and mother a trapeze artist, is currently having to advertise for a new assistant as Yana, who bears two scars from previously mis-directed knives, wants to concentrate on her hula-hoop act.

His previous assistant reportedly left the job after being hit in the foot, her third injury from a wayward knife.

"In 11 years of performing, I've only hit my assistant on five occasions," he told the Daily Mail recently.

... in response to A Russian girls opinion., posted by Zink on Apr 9, 2003

First off I'd like to see you post when you are 24 & see how your perspective on life changes. As for Russian women I don't know I've only been to & visited Ukrainian ladies. One thing I DID notice about Ukrainian MEN is that many were very resentful of American men. Perhaps they felt we were there to "take their women" to American. Interesting points but I don't agree with many of them due to our age & inexperience in "life".

... in response to Re: A Russian girls opinion...., posted by Frank O on Apr 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by Zink]

Well actually, I'm a 29 year old man with a fair bit of nasty life experiences. I had most of the ideology knocked out of me awhile ago. I've been involved with RWs for 3 years and lived in Russia for 5 months and will be there more later this year. At the moment there's about a 50-50 chance I'll end up living there. I reposted that from a Canadian based message group. I don't agree with it 100% either.

I know a few Russian guys. They aren't as bad as commonly painted. One thing I learned a long time ago was to be careful with gifts. They have a lot of pride and anything that we do that may be perceived as condescending is best avoided. But from what you wrote the guy sounds like an @ss anyhow. I never noticed any resentment towards me but then I am Canadian. There are many people in the world who love Canadians. I have hit some anti-american attitudes but the average Russian doesn't really seem to care much about the US one way or the other. Most of the men I met told I was pretty, d@mn smart to be trying to find a RW because they were the best. Most of the women I know have no interest in Canadian or American men. A European might be okay but a Russian is best. Like anything else you read take it all with a grain of salt. This is merely my opinions and experiences and the first post was Ann's(who by the way doesn't even know about this board).

... in response to Re: A Russian girls opinion...., posted by Frank O on Apr 9, 2003

Because, due to the financial condition in their country, it is perceived that they cannot take care of their own.

I was writing to a russian guy and he said most of these ladies were from small villages, coming to the big cities to excape the poverty and have read about the riches of men from abroad coming over to find a wife.

To hop in a cab in Kiev and drive down the street and look at all the old buildings, so rustic in color and well worn sidewalks just bristling with life on a bitter cold afternoon.   Fast forward yourself in a major metropolitian city in North American and the scene is like night and day different in terms of modern living standards.

I imagine Kiev will someday catch up with the rest of the world, oh, I'd say in about 50 years.

... in response to Re: I would guess they guys were resentf..., posted by wsbill on Apr 9, 2003

in Ukraine. I met this guy through Virtualtourist.com. He seemed like a really nice guy. He took me through all of Lugans & showed me around & would hang out with me all night long. I paid for his cab rides & paid for his drinks & dinner every night. Well for Christmas I sent him $20. I know it's not much but cmon it's a GIFT!!! My boss gave us each $25 & I was appreciative for it. Well this guy took offense & wrote me back a REALLY nasty letter. He said that was the equivalent of 1% of my salary & how could HE feel good about giving someone 2 hryvnas. I was greatly hurt. Here I thought this guy was a friend. I sent my friend Galina from First Dream also $20 as a gift. TOTALLY different attitude there. Then he started saying I should have paid him for his time with me. I mean if he would have said I'll be your guide for x amount of dollars cool but her NEVER gave any indication of it so we just hung out. Oh well. But throughout my visit he kept throwing comments aboutus "ignorant" American & kept talking about the plight of his people & having to put up with the mafia. Gimme a break I get enough of that from the Mexicans man! LOL!!! Anyways several of the men there had that attitude. Now don't take me wrong there were some people there I would now consider friends for life but many men were just very resentful of us Americans. I just think the bulk of the world is envious of our position in this world.

... in response to I had a guy who I thought was a "fr..., posted by Frank O on Apr 9, 2003

...us Americans? Lol...jeesh, I can't imagine why. It couldn't possibly be because of the arrogance and lack of cultural perspective we demonstrate, could it? Nah....

... in response to I had a guy who I thought was a "fr..., posted by Frank O on Apr 9, 2003

Cards only next time---Sounds like a pride issue?

... in response to Re: I had a guy who I thought was a &quo..., posted by CS767 on Apr 10, 2003

NT

... in response to Sorry but NOTHING next year he can kiss ..., posted by Frank O on Apr 10, 2003

And finally, decided to respond.

Frank, I suppose I can see how you could conclude that this guy was being overdemanding. You are, like all of us, the 'victim' of your upbringing.

But I will offer an entirely different perspective. I see it as follows:

* This guy was, indeed, interested in seeing that you had an enjoyable time in Ukraine.
* He was probably also, like MANY Ukrainians I have met, more than a little concerned about your safety and well-being.
* My guess is, he is probably also struggling mightily to make ends meet and scrapes by on what little he can earn through a variety of odd jobs.
* Yes, it is true that he made the choice to spend his time with you.
* Yes, it is also true that he probably never made it known he had any expectation of remuneration. Most Ukrainian men I know are either too shy, or too proud, to state any expectation.
* My guess is, it is also true that you benefited from his time spent with you. You probably learned much more about the areas you traveled together - and you probably had significant assistance with interpreter duties than if you were alone.
* In my opinion - and it is only mine - a responsible person would have thought to consider the other person's overall situation. While this guy was spendig time with you, he lost other possible opportunities to generate a few Hryvna elsewhere (opportunity cost, in US economic terms).

To sum it up - I think YOU blew it - not him.

It wouldn't have hurt you a bit to pay him a fair sum for his time and effort and expertise that he gave so graciously.

That you became offended at the fact that he LATER told you he had been insulted by you - I find that more than a little off-base.

For the future, you may want to consider re-framing your perspectives - either with experience or at least with some personal consideration for the persons you interact with.

I, for one, am ashamed of your reaction - in this instance.

- Dan

... in response to I've Been Thinking About Your 'Story' . ..., posted by Dan on Apr 14, 2003

Nice post Dan, I could not have put that message into words as well as you did, especially with your experience. I would have felt tremendous benefit having someone *to hold your hand* - the benefits intangible ! IMHO.

And LP's comments above, how true, WE Westerners lack a bit of humbleness and humility at times, probably our biggest sin in life, one that seems to get little attention in this world.

So Frank, I dont think it is too late to do justice, imagine how appreciative he will be, and he will be there next time! (Mind you, I wouldnt want to be around for the hug & kiss that he may want to share with you at your next meeting !!  LOL)

Good luck to all.
J

... in response to Re: I would guess they guys were resentf..., posted by wsbill on Apr 9, 2003

wsbill,  you do know that I appreciate very much.
But go slowing on the homing deal.
How good we are and how beautiful we are.
As for the modern living standard,
I saw the restaurant list that you sended me, eewife.

When you want or try to take the next guy nookie,
most of the time, you are in trouble, right.

How to eat the good stuff, is of the upmost.

... in response to A Russian girls opinion., posted by Zink on Apr 9, 2003

About how her beloved boyfriend dumped her for a younger girl, while leaving her stranded with a child and a low or no paying job.  

As corse as it sounds, that would be the norm.  But to point out this is how the russians do it would be unfair, I'm sure we all can readily point out failed marriages in all countries of the young.  With mothers working at McDonalds to make ends meet.

... in response to Re: Wait 2-3 years and read her follow u..., posted by wsbill on Apr 9, 2003

your first two lines were my sentiments exactly

... in response to A Russian girls opinion., posted by Zink on Apr 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by micha1]

A real pleasure to read,
many of the well married guys, here,
will also applaud very laudly,
I am sure.

Because, I can think back of how well
some of guys have spoken about their wifes
and how happy and LUCKY they were,
having the privileges to share their
every day life with a girl from the East.

... in response to A Russian girls opinion., posted by Zink on Apr 9, 2003

I appreciate the post.  I beleive most of the guys know what you posted to be the norm.  You have an excellent command of the English language.  Please feel free to chime in with your opinion concerning threads on this board at any time.

... in response to Thanks for the confirmation, posted by hockeybrain on Apr 9, 2003

Zink - thanks for getting here as well.

... in response to A Russian girls opinion., posted by Zink on Apr 9, 2003

Well, Of course you have to eliminate the 'horror' stories and therefore your story more less confirm  what I know. (have visit Russia).
About bad men, well of course they exist, but as my RW say 'they are difficult to find'. Perhaps is my RW pretty unlucky, but she knows some strange men. Recently she was invited to Turkey as a mistress or get a job offer, but only by sleeping with the man.
My visit was in February with a clear winther at a city along the Volga river. is was like return to the 1950'ies with mobile phone and some internet cafe.
I will finish this by confirm that my RW wants to work, as you say. It will be boring to stay home.

Good luck in the future.