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I see Bubba and Rags having a little discussion further down about ladies ability to speak English.

Many sites will list a ladies ability to speak English on a scale of 0 to 5 with 0 being none, 5 being really good. I feel some of the bigger agencies many times show a ladies English ranking to be a bit higher than it actually should be.

I think being able to communicate with these ladies one-on-one is as important, if more so, than the quality of the first photo the man sends of himself and the efficiency of his first letter of introduction.  I know there are times when a man and woman have met and married and lived happily ever after with the woman having not been able to speak any English during there first meetings. And although it does happen, I think the occurrence's are not that great.

Being able to communicate with these ladies is very important. Often times we have such a short time to spend with these ladies that not being able to communicate with each other makes it really hard to get to know one another.

Anytime I saw a lady who says she speaks from a 2 on up, I would jump all over the opportunity to meet her if I were interested in her. As most Russian women are perfectionist with most anything they do, because most do not have excellent command of the English language, most do not give themselves enough credit for there ability to speak English. To tell you the truth, if a lady wrote her ability to speak English as a 1 many times I would pursue her if I was interested in her. Often times all it takes is for the woman to be able to speak just a little English to be able to communicate with her directly, one-on-one. I met a lot of ladies whose English was rated as a 1 and she spoke good enough English to speak with, although she did not think her English was that good. Having a little dictionary or translator was never further away than my camera case for the times when we ran into a word that needed to be expressed, explained or translated.

Most Russian ladies serious to learn English can do so quite quickly. One time I met a lady from Moscow I was very interested in, she spoke no English. I paid for her to take English lessons and in three months she had learned English quite well, we no longer needed an interpreter. These ladies are quite intelligent and I am amazed at how quickly many of them can learn English. The cost of English lessons will vary. In most cities of Ukraine and Russia, excluding Moscow and St. Petersburg, you can find English lessons that will run from $80 to $120 a month. This is usually good for about three lessons a week.

... in response to English, 0 to 5!, posted by Jack on Mar 15, 2003

Jack says:

Anytime I saw a lady who says she speaks from a 2 on up, I would jump all over the opportunity to meet her if I were interested in her.

Richard says:

I would make an exception to this rule for any woman that knew some English but showed a sincere desire to learn.  On my first trip to Kiev I met a women who knew virtually no English, but was taking lessons.  When she wanted to tell me to send her copies of the pictures of the two of us I took, she hunted through her Russian - English dictionary and told me "Pictures - Post Office". This isn't the best English, but it got her point across.  (I can't help wonder what would have happened if I had decided to pursue a relationship with this woman instead of the one I did.  Oh, well, the path not taken …)

At the other end of the spectrum was the woman who couldn't speak a word of English yet sent me a letter after I returned home telling me how much she cared for me.  I never heard from her again after I told her I couldn't see pursuing a relationship with her unless she was willing to start learning English.  

... in response to English, 0 to 5!, posted by Jack on Mar 15, 2003

I have lived in Ukraine now for around 18 months and I am always surprised at the level of english spoken here.  Nearly every one under 25 can speak good english.  Yes they do underestimate thier level of english.  The cost of Russian Lessons at a very good schools  (London School of English or International House) is around 50$ a month three lessons a week plus free club.  The problem is that there is also a number of lower end English teaching services many provided by the dating agencies are not that good or professional.

I visted a school recently and I was amazed at the level and high standard of english.

You can hire a personal tutor teacher with very good quailification for around 15 Grn / hour...

Do not be foooled into paying the high rates for a translator...  waste of money...  just talk...  You will find that many want to practice their english and look forward to the opportunity to talk to you...

... in response to English, 0 to 5!, posted by Jack on Mar 15, 2003

Jack,
   Thanks for the post.I spoke with my friend in Sevastapol this AM and she says "I dont speak very well or write very well",hell this lady does just fine for me.Today I had a hard time explaining that she was yelling into the phone and it overloaded the phone and garbled the message.I never did succed in conveying this message but most communication is excellant.I asked if I could say hello to her daughter,all along having been told she couldn't speak ANY English,she spoke and answered my questions about what she was doing today.I was astounded that she answered me with the answers in English.So the perfectionist thing pervades here.I think she "yells" because she cant hear me.

... in response to English, 0 to 5!, posted by Jack on Mar 15, 2003

I think someone else mentioned this, but it is quite amazing that it seems often those ladies who apologize the most for their weak English (in their first messages to you), actually are pretty good at it when you meet with them.

And, those who tell you they are pretty good at English ( in their first messages to you), really can't do that well at all when you meet with them.

I guess it is the case that the more you know (about anything) the more you realize what you do not know.  Perhaps ignorance really is bliss.

But, I certainly would place no credence at all in any kind of a number assigned by the ladies or the agencies.  There are really no standards, and it is just purely subjective.

It sometimes gets really dicy trying to pin down the language skills.  Often times I have noted that the messages just don't seem to reflect the thoughts of a mature woman.  So finally I have to bluntly ask and, sure enough, the letters are being written the gal's teenage daughter.  The mother knows zero English and the plan is that the daughter will go on the dates with you.  And they really get ticked when you tell them it's finished.

JR

... in response to Over and under rating, posted by juio99 on Mar 15, 2003

Thanks for the belly laugh,I am in tears---do you think that happens???

... in response to English, 0 to 5!, posted by Jack on Mar 15, 2003

This is not politically correct but i was wondering there if it is possible to distinguish a Russian speaker by their accents. For example in the US we can pretty much tell where someone is from by their accents. Even if the RW sounds like a `peasant`i don't mind, I just love their english with the sexy Russian accent.

... in response to Upper and lower-class accents, posted by Cold Warrior on Mar 15, 2003

There are quite a few accents and dialects in the Russian language, given the fact that its populations is spread over such a vast territory. But if you must have a rule of thumb of some kind to try and guess the class a Russian-speaking person belongs to without speaking the language yourself, here goes:
  A lower class person is more likely to pronounce their O's as such (as in the English word "bong"), even when those vowels don't bear the stress in the word. On the other hand, in a more upper-class person's speech you're likely to hear more sounds like aaaaaaaar (as in the British "far"), or the sound similar to the sound in the 2nd syllable of the word "motion", the English language doesn't have a letter to represent it (the fact so much lamented by G.B. Shaw).
  The Russian language does not have the "W" sound. It has a U, pronounced as "oo", and V. If you think you can hear something like W, especially if you hear "Wse" or "oose" instead of "Vse", run from that person.

One more thing, while it is true that people from Moscow tend to be somewhat more educated than people from other parts of Russia (excluding St. Pete of course), you run a great risk of incurring your RW's wrath if you admire Moscow's ways or people, and she doesn't come from Moscow herself. Russia in general has a good, and mostly now historical, reason to dislike Moscow.

id

... in response to Re: Upper and lower-class accents, posted by id on Mar 16, 2003

The best illustration of the russian language we have seen in a good while or ever.........

ID, you need to come out and point these little things out more often to us.

... in response to Re: Upper and lower-class accents, posted by id on Mar 16, 2003

nt

... in response to Upper and lower-class accents, posted by Cold Warrior on Mar 15, 2003

The ladies from Moscow has a Moscow dialect and from St.Petes have a softer accent. In Russia the Moscow accent is considered the "best".I am taking Russian lessons now and when I asked advice from a few Russian friends in LA they all said make sure that the teacher was from Moscow or St.Petersburg.The rest of the cities are more or less considered "villages".And most educated people in Russia knows or can tell the Moscow dialect.

... in response to Re: Upper and lower-class accents, posted by Watcher on Mar 16, 2003

My Pimsluer tapes just crack Violetta up! I am talking about rolling on the floor with tears laughter.

... in response to Oh yeah?, posted by Rags on Mar 16, 2003

nt

... in response to What's wrong wirh Pimsluer????? ...nt, posted by Cold Warrior on Mar 16, 2003

I guess that it's the combination of the over enunciation and the "Moscow" dialect that tickles her. Then when I try to repeat it with my Ozark accent it really tears her up. Nothing wrong with Pimsleur. Speaking bad Parusski is better than speaking none.

... in response to Re: What's wrong wirh Pimsluer????? ...n..., posted by Rags on Mar 16, 2003

I wrote ""Moscow"" accent NOT ''Hillbilly'' accent. I guess it is all of that inbreading??????????

... in response to Re: Re: What's wrong wirh Pimsluer????? ..., posted by Watcher on Mar 17, 2003

[This message has been edited by Rags]

INBREEDING. (And use proper diction.) You might consider taking some English classes while you are at it. 'nuff said?

BTW, dialect and accent are two different concepts. One is the use of an actual word, the other has to do with the way you pronounce it.

I'll take your crack at my parentage as a VERY poor attempt at humor. Otherwise, I just might take a drive down to La-la land and clean your clock. Paneemayish?

... in response to At least most "hillbillys" can..., posted by Rags on Mar 17, 2003

Oh my, looks like Watcher is having a bad day.

Besides getting Rags on your bad side Watcher, I got some more bad news for you. Our resident troll, when she can ocassional get in anymore, has told me that she thinks you are indeed me.  I know, not want you want to hear on a Monday morning.

As Rags suggessted, you might want to practice up on your English. Seems your spelling of to, too, two, there, their and they're has convienced cow baby that you are me. If you don't want world Ambassadors talking bad about you, correct thou's english!

... in response to Re: What's wrong wirh Pimsluer????? ...n..., posted by Rags on Mar 16, 2003

Speaking bad Parusski is better than speaking none.

My high school French teacher told a story about a trip she took to France with a bunch of French teachers.  One of the women was from Texas and spoke French with a Texas accent. The French being the way they are, someone asked this particular French teacher to speak English, rather than French.

On a more serious note, I think more Russian you learn, the better.  I wish my Russian was good enough to understand more of what was being said.  (I believe another poster, Zink maybe, has made the same point.)

... in response to Upper and lower-class accents, posted by Cold Warrior on Mar 15, 2003

Cold,
Lena has the ability to tell some background of a Russian speaker from their language use more than their accent.  I have heard her say more than a few times that the person's Russian was not very well developed, indicating limited schooling or small town background.  On the other hand, I find it rather easy to spot a Ukrainian accent in their English use.  Lokk for a lot of "z's" sneaking in.  Zem's zouse and zere.
KenC

... in response to Re: Upper and lower-class accents, posted by KenC on Mar 16, 2003

Zanks

... in response to Re: Upper and lower-class accents, posted by KenC on Mar 16, 2003

Nah, zouse are not Ukranians, zouse are zee frogs.

... in response to Upper and lower-class accents, posted by Cold Warrior on Mar 15, 2003

This entire accent thing has been a real disappointment for me. I listen to those Russian Olympic skaters and fall in love with that accent.  The gals at some of the travel agencies (Glavs, Red Star, etc.) in US also have those great accents.

But, when I actually go to Russia, the gals I end up with do not seem to have the great accents.  I don't know what happens.  Perhaps some of it is that you very quickly get used to the accent when you are physically there, so it doesn't sound like an accent anymore.  Another thing is that some of the ladies work hard to NOT have an accent.

Anyway, the lack of the sexy accent has been a big disappointment for me.

... in response to Longing to hear the accent, posted by juio99 on Mar 15, 2003

Don't forget to get them to say: "Moose and squirrel".

... in response to Re: Longing to hear the accent, posted by William on Mar 15, 2003

nt

... in response to Longing to hear the accent, posted by juio99 on Mar 15, 2003

Completely opposite experiences.

JR, you say "Anyway, the lack of the sexy accent has been a big disappointment for me."

Many things you write I can relate to and agree with, then some things, like this,.... well just goes to show how different some people can experience the same thing. I think it's safe to assume that between you and I JR the number of Russian ladies we met were in the same ballpark of each other. My experience was that over 90% of the Russian ladies I met had very sexy accents and was a joy in talking with.

... in response to Longing to hear the accent, posted by juio99 on Mar 15, 2003

[This message has been edited by Rags]

Oh DA! I love to hear my wife's lovely voice and accent answer the phone when I call from work to check on them. She's been here about 15 months and hasn't lost a bit of her accent even though her English has greatly improved. Our daughter (4) on the other hand speaks English with absolutely no accent and is losing her Russian (Ukrainian) accent little by little.

... in response to Re: Longing to hear the accent, posted by Rags on Mar 15, 2003

Yep, I know just what you mean, Tanya's been here just short of two years and speaks English very well, but still has, and probably always will, a very heavy accent. Vlad, on the other hand, who is 8 1/2, speaks just like any other neighborhood kid and now has an accent in his Russian. We'll be sending him to a tutor everyday this summer while he's home to keep up his reading and writing skills in Russian. The same tutor who helped him w/ his English 2 years ago!  :) Lot's of our friends didn't persue their childrens Russian once they got here and most of these kids have lost their "Mother" language. We're VERY glad that we kept "the screws" to him and he hasn't lost any speaking ability.
FWIW, , ,
Stan