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Disclaimer:

What follows is my opinion. You may agree or disagree, flame or not as you see fit.

I really couldn't possibly care about the predictible response this is bound to draw from the resident agency owner and his friends and employees.

I have no intention of waging any more stupid debates. I rarely read this board anymore, but someone saw a post I made elsewhere and asked if I would post it here.

So, here it is:

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OK, with Valentine's Day coming up, I guess I am waxing philosophical on my courtship with my lady (wait... that's no lady, that's my wife :-)

I started thinking when I read this:

quote:
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Personally I think a person that wants to visit OW is just fine... Maybe I am the exception to the rule, I wrote one woman for 6 months, went to see her, and everything was great...
Not every guy will be successful at WOVO approach, but there are just as many guys that see many and receive nothing, with the same amount of money if not more spent.
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Well said.

Personally, from the guys I have "met" on this board and others -- I know many more who were successful through WOVO than who were successful the casting call approach favored by many.

That's not a statistic, btw, just an observation.

I think it is also worth noting -- at least for a moment -- that agencies make far more money if you DON'T go the WOVO route, so I think some of the advice from "experts" might be tainted somewhat.

Don't flame me for that. I don't mean that all Agencies are money-grubbing capitalists. I know that several are sincerely interested in men being successful.

But that doesn't make the economics go away, does it?

Think about it for a moment...

You have agencies that make money by organizing dates for a man. This is something that is clearly much harder for him to accomplish by himself. Travel, interpreters, tours, apartments for (maybe) weeks, dates (maybe three a day...) Who can do this by himself? To pull this off, you need connections.

(And it doesn't ALWAYS go this way... but I have seen it go this way:)

A guy bites the bullet and signs up to an Agency. He guy shells out the bucks and goes over. Meeting many women is certainly an ego boost. The guy has a good time, even if he doesn't find the one, he is now excited abut the possibilities, and starts saving up for his next trip. At some point, the search becomes as consuming as the original desire to simply have a woman in your life and be happy.

Now, he doesn't want to "settle." Yeah, she's an eight, or even a nine, but, hey, a ten might be just around the corner. Better go back over and meet fifty more... (Never mind asking if HE is a ten... after all he is an AMERICAN, and that makes him a ten... right?)

(I had one agency owner tell me that even after you meet the one you know is right, that you still should visit three more to be "sure." That's what he did, he told me. He met his wife, knew she was the one, and still went off to another city to spend a weekend with another girl to make sure...)

By this time, the guy is into some serious coin ... After several trips over, and thousands of dollars spent, he is viewed as an expert - just as much as the agency owner is. But.. where did this expertise come from? And what is his expertise truly in?

And along comes a "newbie" who asks: "Should I write just one?"

Well... what are the agency owners going to say?

What are the translators and guides who make money on the guys meeting and visiting many going to say?

And what are the guys who have just invested thousands of dollars in "the system" going to say?

And, if someone else reads that question and says: "Hey, you know what? I only wrote one... went to meet her, and everything turned out great..." what happens?

The naysayers come out of the woodwork:
"You're a fool."
"It will never work."
"It's easy to do that, wait five years and then we'll see if you were successful... until then, I ain't buying it!"
... on and on...

But the fact is that if 5 years of happy marriage is the baseline for "success" then almost half of the American/American marriages fail the test as well, and there are very few bona fide experts on here, indeed.

As you may suspect, I did a WOVO. That doesn't make it the "right way" but it sure doesn't make it wrong, either... does it?

The fact is that using WOVO, I met the woman of my dreams, and she is here with me even as I write this. We go to bed together each night, wake up each morning together, and spend the days together. She makes me happier than I could have dreamed. She is absolutely incredible.

You can try to belittle that "success" all you want, but to my way of thinking that was what I wanted when I started this search, and now I have it.

And I did it with the WOVO "method".

Prior to that, I tried: the place a personal ad, visit an agency, and visit many (with more back-up plans in place that the Allies had for the invasion of Normandy...) and I discovered that it felt unnatural and forced.

It just wasn't me.

This didn't make me foolish, and anyone who insists that it does is either just stupid or selling something.

Above all else, you have to do what makes you comfortable, I think.

I corresponded with the woman who was to become my wife for months before we met. She was the only person I was writing to. I didn't have a girlfriend here to keep me "warm" either.

We courted long distance, using letters. You know, one hundred years ago, that wasn't so unheard of. In fact, some of the greatest literary pieces in history have been love letters. Courtship through letters is a time honored thing.

Now... can you end up meeting someone and having it not work out? Sure. You can also line up 50 dates, spend a month playing "Joe Millionare" and have it not work out, also.

But by the time I "met" my wife in person, we already knew each other. Very, very well. She was EXACTLY what I thought she would be. By the time we met, after exchanging hundreds of letters, we weren't strangers -- we were lovers who had been separated by distance and circumstance, finally coming together...

It amuses me that some people have tried to make an issue of how soon my wife and I went to the bedroom. The answer is: it came after months of courting. (Not that it is anyone's business)

In fact, after we got engaged, my brother's wife wrote to her to welcome her to the family. They corresponded for months. When they finally met a few weeks ago, I asked my sister-in-law if she was surprised at all. Her answer: "No, she was exactly what I thought she was. We knew each other pretty well after our emails. We’ve been writing for months you know."

And I thought: Exactly.

So it's not just "falling in love with a letter and a picture." It can be that, but done right, it can also be much more.

People CAN really get to know someone via correspondence. It has happened for centuries.

If YOU can't... maybe the problem isn't with letter-writing... maybe it's with you...

... in response to In Defense of WOVO, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 13, 2003

Excuse my naivete but what does WOVO mean.

... in response to Re: In Defense of WOVO, posted by wilmc on Feb 13, 2003

i see a volcano brewing here.

... in response to Re: In Defense of WOVO, posted by wilmc on Feb 13, 2003

n/t

... in response to Re: In Defense of WOVO, posted by wilmc on Feb 13, 2003

wmvm = write many visit many.

... in response to In Defense of WOVO, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 13, 2003

WOVO can work - but I feel much more comfortable trying lots of WOVOS ie. WMVM.  I have seen so many women that are just much different on paper and photo from the real thing.  Therefore, I have learned to hedge my bets.

... in response to In Defense of WOVO, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 13, 2003

[This message has been edited by yoe]

I would have had a back up plan. That being said-I went to see one woman. Not as a bride but as an Adventure. I had 'no intention' of flipping out. Here is something that you guys will looooveee. The third or fourth day we were together I was crying like a baby-and I still do not know why.......I think she was kinda weirded out too. The funny thing I found out later is my grandfather died that day...say I just made up some cosmic gene excuse.
But that all being said.......if I had gone to meet other women, I may not me with my wife now------I would probably not. Knowing me. I would still be going over meeting other girls. You must understand, I had no intention of falling in love..........NONE. But that being said, again, what I did was very risky and I know it and I knew it. But I had little to lose, emotionally. So go with your gut. I am not a multi-woman guy-anymore. I am not as young and as much of a bastard..........:)
Joe

... in response to In Defense of WOVO, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 13, 2003

As many I also went to meet only one woman.  I can't just tell one woman that I am going to meet another as well.  It ruins the whole fate mystic, magical superstitious mambo jumbo that most of these women hold in high regard.  I have always told one woman, (which ever at the time) that I was just browsing along just happened to see your picture and fell in love with you at that first moment.  I play it up saying that I never do this kind of thing and it must have been fate that I found you.  Most if not all the woman just eat that stuff up.  If you’re going the many woman route your taking so much away from the relationship right from the beginning.  These woman in the FSU have to have this one true love feeling, combined with fate, hope and god must have brought us together mystic.  I am serious most of these women live by this stuff.

... in response to I agree great post..., posted by Ryan on Feb 13, 2003

Ryan,
What you say is true. The trick is to both maintain the mystique and not put your eggs all into one basket. The only way to do this is to not volunteer anything and to do some skillful planning. Not easy, but it can be done.

... in response to I agree great post..., posted by Ryan on Feb 13, 2003

Hummmmm,

I love the thought of this but...the reality I think is a one way street sort of. I mean if this is a great looking girl and she writes sweet things..then most likely there are a couple dozen guys writing to her....thus the one way street deal. I feel a lot like you do in my heart, not sure yet how I feel in my head. Im trying to figure this part out yet. Im brand new though so I love this dicussion. And except for the personal jabs....which I always ignore...Im learning.

Right now Im leaning to WOVO with a definite backup plan.

But only because I feel more comfortable with that right now. Im trying to stay open and examine the differences and advantages and disadvantages and also how I feel at the same time. I dont think there is any best way. All can succede and all can fail. I like the idea of luck and fate as well. Especially with matters of the heart.

Sometimes the talk here revolves aroung the "process" so much that it leaves out the excitement and fun. Cuz if this aint fun....why am I doing it?

I agree...great topic.....NO VOLCANOS...I hope anyway!

I just cliped on to your topic....this was not to you alone.

Thanks

Randy

... in response to I agree great post..., posted by Ryan on Feb 13, 2003

Ryan, although many love to plan by and believe in astrology
most are really smart about what they want to achieve, and know how to succeed.

... in response to Re: I agree great post..., posted by Globetrotter on Feb 13, 2003

As women see it.

I had a friend who worked as a cab driver in London, a job that brought him into contact with lots of young ladies going to, or coming home from a night out on the town.

If he discovered that the lady was celebrating her birthday, he would claim coincidence, that it was also he's birthday and switch into hunter mode.

This guy often had 3 or 4 young hotties on the boil every month. Astrology? powerful stuff! It works!

Btw. I wish I'd known that when I was 19.

... in response to Astrology and the Mumbo-Jumbo of love an..., posted by Pordzhik on Feb 13, 2003

it appears your pal had a good gig going on. *smile*

Blessed - are the cabbies...

BTW, did you enjoy Steyn's 'review' on the passing of Joe?

... in response to From what you say, ..., posted by BURKE89 on Feb 13, 2003

One of the top figures from that time, along with Rotton & co, Always proud that he never sold out!

In contrast to the Silver Jubilee of '77, the Golden last summer had the icons of today clamouring to play the concert from the roof of Buckingham Palace, Cool Brittannia? Not!

Even saw the Honourable Member for Texas North boogying along with Cherie on TV, I went down the pub.

... in response to London Calling, posted by Pordzhik on Feb 15, 2003

specific eras, nor cool!

Question for you: How did your wife take to your musical tastes and, I imagine, your appearance during your younger days? For kicks, I've burned a few comps for Russian gals, under the auspices of - 'this is what I listened to in my youth.' Yeah right, I never touch the stuff anymore. hehehe...

The responses have been varied. From: rubbish (I respect honesty), 'interesting,' 'my father thought it subversive...,'I do like the Undertones songs...' & my little brother liked 'smash it up & automatic lover.' LOL... again & again. Let's just say the Hank Williams Sr/Janis Martin material went over better, in most instances!

...Texas North...Cherie?  

You 'got' me there.

... in response to You just can't 're-manufacture'..., posted by BURKE89 on Feb 15, 2003

survive from those days, she likes the one with the dyed blond spiky hair and chained-up spray painted leather jacket and tightest leather jeans. Last summer during the Golden Jubilee celebrations, there was some stuff on the telly about the Pistols we watched.

She hates when I play any stuff from those days, except Bowwowwow and any Iggy Pop. A surprise for me, she's very knowlegable about Pink Floyd and Led Zep, spent hours playing my old vinyl and reading the sleeves.

... in response to You just can't 're-manufacture'..., posted by BURKE89 on Feb 15, 2003

Cherie would be Tony's wife and N. Texas must be Bush :-)

... in response to Re: You just can't 're-manufacture'..., posted by Jski on Feb 15, 2003


The "Rt, Honourable Member" is how British Parliamentarians refer to each other, the jibe was thrown at Blair by a member of the TV audience during a recent airing of Jeremy Paxman's Question Time on BBC2 TV, soon after Nelson Mandela's remark about Blair being the US foriegn Secretary.

... in response to Naw, Bush wasn't there, posted by Pordzhik on Feb 15, 2003

LOL...OK, missed that one.  Guess I spent too much time watching Ally G and Reps in Ibiza while I was there :-)

... in response to In Defense of WOVO, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 13, 2003

I went over 2 times but to only see one girl each time, no back up plans, who needs them if you are sociable. I did use an agency for an apartment and ride. That's it, I'm happily married too. No flames here

... in response to In Defense of WOVO, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 13, 2003

Mark, thanks for quoting me, you always seems to put it in better words, but your thoughts was what I did, and I new it would work and if didn't, hell I never been to Ukraine before, lets see how the other part's of the world live.

And for grins, my lady was the only lady I EVER contacted, we got lucky and that is a fact. I feel like you the luckiest man alive.

But I HATE TSC, freaking liars. You read the Press Release that I posted; I wish I was there in Dallas to take part.

But anyway, good post very well written.

TomTx