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Just as there is a supposive debate as to the great age issue, "Do Russian women really prefer older men" there is this supposive debate as to should a man write one woman, visit one woman, or should a man write many women and see many women. What's the debate? It's a personal matter and issue, plain and simple! There is no right way or wrong way with regards to this.

Some men cannot see or visit more than one woman on a single visit. It is there style and preference. To these men the write one woman, visit one woman is the correct choice, end of debate.

Some men can write a few ladies, and visit a few ladies on the same trip. These men might be a little hesitant as too putting all there eggs in one basket, but do not feel comfortable in seeing a lot of ladies, but certainly feel better about seeing more than one lady. To these type men write a few, visit a few is the correct choice for him, end of debate. I feel very, very fortunate that on my very first trip to Russia I had wrote several but narrowed it down to two ladies. I met one lady in Moscow and one lady in St. Petersburg. After meeting the very first and only Russian woman I had ever met, we were in love. I was one lucky man, Svetlana was beautiful and caring, she was 27, soon to be 28, I was 41. As I left Moscow she said she would marry me and I was going to marry her, but ooopps, had this little side trip to St. Petersburg I had to make, as Veronika was waiting on me. Well wouldn't you know it, Veronika was even more beautiful, was 30 years of age and over the next week we feel in love, she talked of marriage.  

I had written both these ladies for several months. Each new when we met (as they both later told me) I was going to be her future husband. Now I had a problem, which of these two ladies was I going to marry? There is no doubt in my mind that if I had not of seen a second Russian woman on my first trip, I would have married the very first and only Russian woman I had ever met.

See, most men just don't realize how sensuous and beautiful so many of these Russian women are. Average American Joe (who would rate a 5 or 6 on a scale of 1 to 10) has just met a Russian woman who by American standards would be an 8 or 9 who is beautiful, was great sex and she will marry him?  "Hell's Bell's, he better take her before someone else get's her! She's 1 in a million and he was so lucky enough to have met her. And this is the biggest mistake so many guys make. And if by chance this woman was a scammer, then your a sitting duck. And even if she wasn't a scammer, how did he know he was really compatible with her after only spending a few days with her?  

Then we have the type of guys who can write many and visit many. These type guys for the most part would never think about marriage to any Russian woman unless he was certain beyond any reason of a doubt that he had found the right one for him, which often means being able to make comparisons between Russian women, to know and meet many Russian women. He would never do the WOVO, which does not make the process wrong, but it is the wrong process for him.

As an individual who did all three of these process's, I wrote one, vested one (Ludmila, St. Petersburg, just a great waste of 7 months time and effort and learned after this trip to always have a back-up plan), I wrote a few, visited a few and I wrote many and visited many. I guess I was lucky in that I was the type person who could do all three different types. As someone who did it all three ways and thus having some experience in each of the ways, I saw the greatest advantage in writing many, visiting many as it allowed me the opportunity to meet more ladies while searching for the one whom I felt had the best, pure natural chemistry with me.

What you will find is many guys saying is that the way they discovered there wife is the best way. Guys who wrote one, visited one and married that one lady will say it is the best way. Guys who wrote many, visited many and married a lady by doing it this way will say it is the best way. It's only natural that this would be the ways guys would recommend, the way that worked for them would of course be in there mind the best way.

What I have exception to is the guy who has no clue! The guy who will say one month that this method is the best way, and a few months later that the other method is the best way and then by stating erroneous facts, figures and statistics that don't exist to support his view, because he wants his view to be conceived as the best way.

We currently have one poster who says that WOVO is the best method and says, and I quote... "as I pointed out, the "VO" amongst this board's success far outweigh the "VM". The WOVO method remains, I am convinced, the most successful. I am merely speaking of statistics that are rarely talked about. I think it has the highest success rate".  

When asked for these statistics to support his claim,..well, the statistics are,.....gone!  What is surprising is the same person who today says that WOVO is the best method, when challenging a poster several months ago who was also doing the WOVO method made this statement, and it is a direct quote,......"For every guy who can say like you did that they wrote just one lady and went over and found love, I can find ten who will tell you that it didn't work for them"... Go the first time with the idea of meeting a lot of ladies. By the end of the week (which is two full weekends if you plan it right) you start winnowing it down" ..."If nothing works out with the group of ladies you were most interested in... reset the clock, and do it again. I don't see any other way of doing it. You just can't go with the feeling of "pressure" to "pick one". All you will get is a problem, IMHO."......

See, some guys have no clue! From "For every 1 who is successful I can show you 10 who were not"!..."go with the idea of meeting many ladies, if it does not work, do it again. I don't see any other way of doing it", to "the WOVO is by far the most successful method"! So, if I WOVO and marry the woman, then everything I said negative about the WOVO approach and all the positive things I said about the WMVM approach before is meaningless, it does not count. This is the type advice I take exception too.

WOVO or WMVM is very much a personal choice, it's that simple. There is no right way, or wrong way as it all depends on the individual. But don't come here on P-L and preach one way, swear one way is the best, then do totally the opposite of your own advice and then start claiming misleading facts, figures, statistics to now promote the way you just did it to make your way the right way!

... in response to Write One Visit One or Write Many Visit ..., posted by Jack on Feb 13, 2003

You mentioned that the WOVO successes outnumber the WMVM successes. I'll bet it has to do with the ability of the man to make a comittment. Consider that the divorce rate among couples who live together before marriage is much higher than those who do not. This is because the attitude of shack-ups is one of testing the waters and holding back until we see what happens later, as opposed to doing whatever it takes to make the marriage work.

I don't believe that it takes lots of searching to find the only one for you, but rather finding someone who is willing to commit to you and you to her. Does it really matter if the Veronica in St Petersburg was more beautiful or a better catch than Svetlana in Moscow, if you were convinced that Svetlana was perfect for you and willing to commit a lifetime to her and she to you?

I believe guys who WMVM are in danger of getting into the mode of constantly looking over their shoulders for one more perfect than the rest. Greener grass is just around the corner. Like couples who live together, they hold back the commitment to see how things work out, and this can be a relationship killing strategy.

I'm not sure I get the concept of not making a force fit. It seems to me that's the only way marriages work. Ask anyone who's been married for a long time, and they'll all say it's hard work. No relationship has spouses agreeing on everything - it's constant compromises - as well it should be. It's far more important to get in lots of face to face time to really see what your potential spouse is like in teh long run so that you're sure you can put up with her just the way she is, and she to you.

Though I was a WOVO guy, I met her first, introduced by mutual friends, so our relationship began face to face and later to writing and calling then more visits.

Just a couple of thoughts as I read your excellent post.

- Jeff

... in response to Write One Visit One or Write Many Visit ..., posted by Jack on Feb 13, 2003

WOVO or WMVM.  There are also some practical matters to consider when deciding which method to use.  With WOVO there is always the tendency to "force the fit".  In otherwords a guy makes a trip over there, spends a few thousand dollars, and uses all of his annual vacation, the inclination is to try make the relationship work no matter what.  

I think any one who uses the WOVO method must reconcile himself to the amount of time and money he might need to spend in this pursuit.  He must be willing to cut his losses if need be and start over.  This is true of all methods but particularly this one.

I am not saying WOVO  is the best or the worst method.  It is the method I have used thus far. It just has it's pitfalls and anyone using it must acknowledge these.

FYI.  I have made a total of 4 trips each about four weeks in length, I will be leaving for my fifth trip next month ( all of this in a two year period) and I am no closer to getting married then when I started.

This is the method I have chosen to use, but it is definitly not for everyone.

... in response to Practical Matters, posted by Philb on Feb 13, 2003

Well said! Sans: hyperbole, malice, innuendoe et al.

I could learn a thing or two here. *wink*

May the fifth... be the one!

Best, Vaughn

... in response to Write One Visit One or Write Many Visit ..., posted by Jack on Feb 13, 2003

even though I WOVO, I would not suggest it. Again for me i had nothing to lose-I was not looking for a wife and if my honey ditched me or was a no-show--------no problem, I was well prepared for this. I a mthe kind of guy that when I do not know what to do I just do something until I figure it out......but that is me. For those who are itching to get married............you may get your socks knocked off when your little sweetie's chemisty has an adverse reaction to yours. This is where the SCAM things gets out of hand. That is wy many suggest using for at least toughing base with an agency like First Dream.........ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WOVO TYPES.  What are you going to do when you get there and have no contacts but the embassy..........? So I would suggest this:
1. Contact an agency and get phone numbers in case of emergency
2. If you like one and only wish to visit one-keep that agency number very handy
3. make more than one trip
4. if you do get engaged the first day you are there-and you may,,,,,,,,,,make sure you MAKE EXTRA TRIPS TO SEE YOUR LADY AFTER YOU LEAVE. (the k-1 process can take 3 months to over a year)
5. do not be afraid to fail
6. do not let your investment tie you into a bad situation
7.BE HONEST TO YOURSELF
8. MOST IMPORTANT-BE HONEST TO THE LADIES.......
Joe

... in response to Write One Visit One or Write Many Visit ..., posted by Jack on Feb 13, 2003

If you write one at a time or many at once? The most important thing is to get off your @ss and meet the woman/women!!! I always prefered writing to a small handful. Letters are a great way to get to know someone but they aren't a substitute for real face to face time.

I advocate having a backup of some sort because things rarely go the way I hoped for. But if a guy doesn't want to send out massed copies of the exact same letter to every girl he knows it gets hard to write more than a few. And in my experience the girls were more responsive to the personal touch.

Just my thoughts about a subject that's been argued way too often and really isn't that important in the whole scheme of things.

... in response to What does is matter..., posted by Zink on Feb 13, 2003

Write one, write many, visit one, visit many.....Just make the choice that you're comfortable with and GO!!!  You can only write for so long :-)  Plenty of time to write while waiting on the K-1  :-)

Even if nothing works out, its a great place for a vacation!

Hey Jack, got any houses in Yalta for sale?  

You need to link Galina's Cat page to the FirstDream site :-)

... in response to What does is matter..., posted by Zink on Feb 13, 2003

Zink, there is a middle ground here regarding WM.

It doesn't have to be the 'exact' same letter as you call it.  But it can be 90 percent or so the same letter with the remainder for the 'personal touch' as you call it.  The best of both worlds.  After all, even when you say like to personalize each letter, if you look back through them, you are basically saying the same thing to most of them most of the time.  Your info about your job, friends, house, education, travels, work experience, temperature, weather, state of health, day to day happenings, etc., are the same regardless of who you are writing.

The first letter to 100s of ladies can be exactly the same, except perhaps to add a sentence here or there commenting on something interesting in her profile, etc.

The next letters can be exactly the same to all ladies, except to reply to the questions and points that they raised, and to ask your own questions that are specific to each lady based on her profile, etc.

Best not to just put all of the individual stuff strictly at the top or bottom, but weave some personal stuff in 3 or 4 places throughout the message.

This is really not that hard to do, and I have never once been criticised for sending a 'form' letter.  It does get quite tricky though keeping a record of who you said what to etc.

I spent some time once with a very cool lady.  I sort of slipped up and asked her if I had told her something.  She smiled and said, "You need to keep a worksheet with each lady's name so you can keep track of what joke, poem, etc., you told to each."  I told her it was a good idea (even though I was already basically doing this.)  She knew exactly what I was doing and said it was the smart thing to do . . .  i.e. To not just visit with one lady.  We are still very good friends and correspond regularly even though we will never have an exclusive arrangement.

I always have the dread fear of having the wrong lady's name show up somewhere in a message, but it hasn't happened yet.

JR

... in response to Re: What does is matter..., posted by juio99 on Feb 13, 2003

Do what you feel is best. But for me I'm trying to make some kind of connection with the girls I write. I can't do that if there are too many. I'm not going to fly 5,000+ miles unless I'm fairly certain that she'll be happy to see me. I can't force good business techniques for hiring an employee onto what I'm hoping will be an emotional relationship. I am very choosy about the girls that I introduce myself to and generally have a good response rate.

But I don't think my methods are typical. I spent 3 months living in Volgograd to be with my first Russian girlfriend and I've spent another 2 months in Vladivostok to be with my second. I've also developed a couple of close friendships along the way. I'm more interested in the quality of relationships that I'm developing and not the numbers. Yes, I understand that greater numbers offer greater chances. But I've got the time to get to know these girls and I'm not ready to rush into a bad situation.

When I was trying the mass writing deal after my first relationship died I ran into a couple of problems I didn't like. I was swamped with letters from an ad I placed on the net. So I started arbitrarily cutting women. Her eyes are the wrong colour, she's an inch too short, etc. I probably threw away some very nice girls because I didn't take the time to get to know them. Then after a few weeks my responses thinned out and so did most of my top choices. You can't go back a month or two later and say,"sorry you weren't good enough before but I'm desperate now. Want to write me again?" You only get one chance at a lot of things in life. So for me I take it slow and actually know a lot about the few girls that I have been in contact with. That's what's best for me.

As for my opinion on what ladies think about us meeting many on every trip. For some women it's not a problem. But some want a man who's willing to go the distance just for them. I live my life by a strict principle of honesty so I've always told my ladies if I was involved with someone other than them. One very good friend told me this. If I know a man is meeting many women I would do one of two things. I would do everything possible to catch him even if I didn't want him. Just to prove I was the best woman. Or I would walk away because a man who thought I wasn't good enough to be the only one isn't good enough for me!

I can't believe I just wrote this much on a topic I said wasn't worth discussing. Good luck to you and most importantly do what you feel is best. That's the only real choice we have in life.

... in response to Re: What does is matter..., posted by juio99 on Feb 13, 2003

JR you are right on a couple of points here. The first letter of introduction is something that needs to be taken very seriously and well worded. In this first letter of introduction you want to tell the lady about you, your life style, a little about your city, little about your family, what you do for a living and things you enjoy doing.

What I don't recommend doing is describing the type lady you are looking for, because SHE is the type lady you are looking for, so basically the first letter is about you. You are to make yourself sound interesting, exciting. You are trying to sell yourself. Also in the first letter I would not dwell on past marriages or ex's, this information can come out in the second or third letter, as you are hoping there is a second or third letter.

In essence the first letter of intro can be identical with the exception of the ladies name and I like to mention the ladies name some three or four times in the body of the letter.

With the guys who I help with the first letter of introduction we try to keep the letter to a single page, we list a local Ukraine or Russian address she can reply too, the man's home address as well as his e-mail address. On average 65% of the ladies will send there reply to a local Russian/Ukraine address (if they have it as an option), 15% will send to the man's home address and from 15 to 20% will send a reply to a man's e-mail address. As far as the personal touch you refer to, when the letter is hand delivered it is a very personal touch. Even by sending registered mail is somewhat of a personal touch in that it shows the ladies you were serious to get the letter to her.

Now, about your dreaded fear of typing the wrong ladies name in a letter, this is a major no-no. The only thing worse than typing the wrong ladies name in a letter is calling the lady by another name when speaking to her on the telephone!

... in response to Re: Re: What does is matter..., posted by Jack on Feb 13, 2003

For the most part Jack (My main man */*) is just so true; you must capitalize on every detail in what these women put in their profile.  You should, for the most part assimilate… I cannot tell you how many times I have done the personal adds here in the U.S. (Big business now days, all the honey chicks are out their) and fit the wording in my profile or in your first letter in just such a way as to attract that woman your going for.  Many times I end up getting, not only the one I was shooting for, but also about 10 others whom jived with me all the same.  It is all in the introduction guys!!… Well then you have the meeting.  At this point you better either keep quite, or be an actor.  I used to go to these programs on how it pick up women. They were like the IN THING before the Internet, It was mostly put on by fly by night dating agencies mostly woman that simply made a business out of bringing people together and educating people to come out of their shell, it often took place in a holiday inn or local hotel with a conference room. Anyway at times it was so cool just to pick up women at these conferences.  This one time I went and actually learned something, this one guy gave some simple insight; he said, you have to be an ACTOR you have to act like that very guy that the woman wants. (His theory was also if all fails be obnoxious or the bad boy out spoken and all, not recommended for the FSU)  You have to be able to read that woman on the fly and give her exactly what she is looking for.  Now days with the Internet these woman are telling you exactly what they are looking for.  For god sakes it’s so simple to give these women what they want.   Consider it a pickup line made for the Internet, you giving them exactly what they want.  Now granted, a 1000 letters would never replace one meeting.  (A line I used to use often) So you better have some practice in on how to roll with the fun.  

What I am saying is that I agree with Jack, you have to get these women hooked, work on one woman or work on ten women in the end all that counts is getting your butt over to the FSU area and meeting these women for yourself.  Myself, I like getting the woman involved in this process of me coming to see them.  (Women need to feel they are needed) make the experience unforgettable, be a stand up guy and roll with the punches.  In the end if you don’t end up making a connection it will always end up being something you will remember for the rest of your life.

... in response to This is my game....., posted by Ryan on Feb 14, 2003

Ryan,

I accept that your 'style' may 'work' for you - but it is at the very least insincere, sophomoric and grossly-misleading to the ladies that have the unhappy occasion to cross paths with you.

This endeavor should not (IMHO) be taken casually and it is most certainly not a "game" - as you describe it.

Your 'style' and advice almost assures you (and others who might follow your advice) of failure - *if* your goal is to find a life-partner. If, OTOH, all you want is a piece of tail - why not stay home and pay for it here?!? It is WAAAYYYY cheaper than paying for the travel to the FSU.

Disgustedly,

- Dan

... in response to I Could Not DISAGREE More . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 14, 2003

Ok so in some ways it was bad advice I will agree.

... in response to Re: Re: What does is matter..., posted by Jack on Feb 13, 2003

"The only thing worse than typing the wrong ladies name in a letter is calling the lady by another name when speaking to her on the telephone! "

Ummmm, I can think of at least one that is even worse! ;-)

... in response to Re: Actually there is a worse one , posted by Jski on Feb 13, 2003

So here I am in Russia, in my room with the love of my life, we are in the huge bathtub drinking Champaign.  Out of my mouth comes the name Ulia as I am addressing my girlfriend Olesya.  (Ulia is the chick that I got burned by in the Ukraine) Well good thing that I was only one bottle into the Champaign and could fix the slip up with little problem.  I actually just fixed it by not reacting to it, Oolia as I would say or Olesya, I am not sure she actually though I called her by another name.  Thank god that she is still learning English.  WOW, when I said it I actually turned red for a second how could I be so stupid?   Well I simply moved on by pouring Champaign on her toes, then putting them in my mouth.  That helped change the subject to better things….

... in response to Re: Actually there is a worse one , posted by Jski on Feb 13, 2003

ok, Jski, this should be good, and what is that that could be worse?

... in response to ok, posted by Jack on Feb 13, 2003

'Polite' gentlemen don't discuss details of such things on a public BBS [I know - that leaves most of us on this board out in the cold - Oh well]. --smile--

- Dan

... in response to He's Right Jack, And . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 13, 2003

I think I know what you are referring too, and 100% agree, especially if it pertains to one's life mate.

... in response to ohhhhhh, I see., posted by Jack on Feb 13, 2003

...and no, its not from personal experience :-)

... in response to What does is matter..., posted by Zink on Feb 13, 2003

I see so many guys wasting girl's time. Sometimes for years. I see the false promises and lies. I see guys even expect the girls to come here.......Then there are those who go see the 'girl' propose and then wait for a year or more to file papers.......then they get pizzed when the girl bolts. Hey it is bad enough having to deal the freaky baztards that are a part of this process let alone dealing with their neurosis..........
again IMHO
Yoe

... in response to I am a firm believer in getting off your..., posted by yoe on Feb 13, 2003

Yoe,

I hear ya, on the miscreant angle (For example, Volgagirl's success stories' of 2001-2003... LOL).

This is NOT biologically normal, in any way what so ever. I can't even comprehend these abominations. Look at these 'champs,' in their un-natural poses: double-jawed, homely, retarded, & ratcheteding upon a pretty RW.

So, in that regard - you're correct!

Yet...