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Well guys I am headed to Dnepropetrovsk in May for 3 weeks. I bought my tickets yesterday so it is set... I will call her in a few hours for Valentines Day and tell her I have the tickets! With all the talk about WOVO and WMVM I just wanted to add my penny's worth...

I started writing this girl back in Sep and I wrote a few others at the same time. Within two months I was only writing this one girl. So I guess I am a slight variation of WOVO... I agree with most of the posts about this, it is whatever YOU are comfortable with. You can't do something you are not comfortable with.... If I were to give any advise, that would be to be honest...not just to her but to yourself. I was telling her everything from the start. It took awhile but after a couple months she also really opened up to me even more then I was hoping for. We are already good friends and can talk about anything. When we meet it will be even more special since we already care about each other. We both know that things can go south in a hurry after we meet but it is doubtful... Good to be prepared though and even if it does not work out for us the trip to me would not be a failure. The only failure would be if I never went...

It's funny how things work. I wasn't sure about doing this again. I did it years ago and after it didn't work out I tried to find a nice American girl but I kept comparing them to the Ukrainian girl I met before... No comparisons so I have been looking at picture after picture of these beautiful women for a couple years and FINALLY decided what the heck...

Z

... in response to Bought tickets for May! WOO HOO!!! :) , posted by Zoidberg on Feb 13, 2003

I did the same thing. I started writing several girls then narrowed it down to "the one". She was perfect in her letters & I called her once a week. We corresponde for 11 months & I went in November which would be 1 year of correspondence. In person she was just like in her letters. I also was VERY upfront about everything. I went for 2 weeks. I saw her 4 days then she "disappeared". Supposedly she got beat up by an "ex" boyfriend. I don't know I think it was a boyfriend period! Anyways 1 year down the drain. However I had a lot of women who wanted to go out with me & I went out with 5 others. Jack from First Dream even got me hooked up to where I met 2 other right before leaving. 1 of which I plan on seeing on my next trip back.
I hope you fare better than I but I hope you have a backup plan. People told me about seeing one & then having no chemistry in person. However in my case there WAS chemistry then something out of left field pops up. Very weird. I don't know perhaps I was scammed however since there was no money involved I don't know how. I did lose out on one year though. Good luck.

... in response to did the same thing did NOT work out..., posted by Frank O on Feb 13, 2003

Frank,

I am not saying that the following scenario is pertinent to your case. However it is in the realm of possibilities.

First of all, scamming seems to be ruled out as your lady has to try and extract something, money, green card etc what ever. From your story, that is not the case.

Since guys tend to correspond with women who are much better looking than what they can attract in their back yard, my take is that there is a greater chance that the lady is not going feel the chemistry as often as the guy is going to feel the chemistry.

... in response to my take on this, posted by thesearch on Feb 14, 2003

I don't know about other guys but it's pretty easy for a youngster like myself to find chemistry. An average girl in Russia usually has the kind of body that men dream about. A good looking Russian could drive me crazy. But the affection has to be returned. Too many of the stories of failed realtionships that I hear say," I was crazy about her but she was cool towards me". I've had it happen to me. Now I want a woman who wants me as bad as I do her. It hurts when they walk out on you but you need to remember that you're better off without her if she feels that way.

... in response to Chemistry!, posted by Zink on Feb 14, 2003

Actually when we first met in person I was surprised she was MORE beautiful than her pics which I didn't think at all possible. HOWEVER I didn't think it was going to work out. Even though she was so beautiful I felt like there was something lacking in her. We hung out & had a great time but it was like friends sort of. I had given myself 3 days to see if it would work then I would bail out & seek others or come back. Well it wasn't till the 3rd day that I started thinking it could work out. Meanwhile she was very happy. So it was sort of backwards there. SHe even told me "you are exactly like I thought you would be". I told her I was not all that in person but she thought I was great. Fine no prob. Things were going good after that till the dude popped up. Oh well. I wish he'd come after me instead of her. Oh well, no sense in crying after spilt milk.
I also don't understand how many men will TRY to "make" chemistry or try to convince THEMSELVES that things can be worked out. If it doesn't appear right off the bat cut your losses. How many have we heard that try to hang on & make it work when there are red flags everywhere. In my case I didn't see any. Even a close friend of mine who I had shared her letters agreed there was no sign. I don't believe I was scammed like I've said it just didn't work out. But never in any case did I assume things were not as they appeared. Perhaps I was TOO cautious if that is at all possible.

... in response to Chemistry!, posted by Zink on Feb 14, 2003

s

... in response to did the same thing did NOT work out..., posted by Frank O on Feb 13, 2003

She had a boyfriend pop up out of "left field" (wherever that is!). Was you upfront with her about those Mexican chicks you were chasing during those 11 months? Seems to me you were both playing the same game, and you shouldn't be moaning about the wasted year.

I don't think waiting a year to travel helped any, once you've made the connection with a woman (how long did that take?)why wait so long? Action speaks louder than a thousand Emails with these women.

... in response to Upfront with her? Then I'm not surprised, posted by Pordzhik on Feb 14, 2003

Actually I was always VERY upfront with her. As for my delay on my trip she waited for me & I kept her abreast of my reasons for the delay. Then SHE told me to wait as she went out of the country for a while with her parents. In any case I still go out with Mexican ladies. I just had one take me out last Sunday. Hey, I'm never short on women it's just most aren't the ones I'd settle down with. I also don't lead them on.

... in response to did the same thing did NOT work out..., posted by Frank O on Feb 13, 2003

I am sorry to hear about your experience Frank... I know it is a big possibllity the same thing can happen to me. I am going into this knowing that no matter how perfect it seems, it may not be... And this is only the start. Even if it works out good, on this trip, are we going to be able to wait the time that it takes now for the K-1 to be processed? If it takes 6 months, great but what if it's a year? Will she wait? Will I wait? I can't tell you what will happen then or on my trip... All I can say is we like each other now and we'll see when we meet... I came into this prepared to go back a few times if needed... So this is just the start. I hope it works out as I like this girl but we are two people that live thousands of miles from each other.... we grew up completely different.... we speak different languages... we might be in love even though we never met... we will try to decide our future on meeting for 3 weeks... How could it fail? :)

Z

... in response to Re: did the same thing did NOT work out...., posted by Zoidberg on Feb 14, 2003

When I went we both had discussed the idea that it might not work out. I also told her about my 3 day limit. She said fine. Anyways the weird thing is we both agreed at that time to continue. THen at the 5th day this guy pops out. Anyways I don't mean to discourage you. The good thing is you've thought about it & are aware of what CAN happen. I did NOT expect what happened to me. You see if she would have said no I could have dealt with that. If I would have felt it was working out (Like on the second day) & had called it off fine. But when we BOTH agreed to proceed...well it changes things then. Just be positive & go with the flow.

... in response to I didn't mean to discourage you..., posted by Frank O on Feb 15, 2003

You didn't discourage me at all... I am aware things can go wrong after we meet. What happened to you though just sucks and something you couldn't have predicted... I hope you have better success next time..

Z

... in response to Re: did the same thing did NOT work out...., posted by Zoidberg on Feb 14, 2003

[This message has been edited by Philb]

As I said in my post below I have made 4 trips to Russia and am going to Ukraine in March.  Three of the trips to Russia were to see the same woman.  These trips have occured over about a two year period.  I am no closer now to getting married then when I started.  Do I feel that I have wasted my time? Not at all.  Even if my fifth trip is *unsuccessful* I doubt I will feel as if I have wasted my time.  I have enjoyed every trip.

So I say go meet one, a few, or many.  Enjoy yourself.  See an area of the world you haven't seen before. Meet someone new. Be an Ambassador for your country. Promote world peace.

Marriage may be the *ultimate goal* in all of this, but there are also many other things that can be accomplished and learned through this process.

... in response to Marriage or not this is never time missp..., posted by Philb on Feb 14, 2003

What I meant about wasted time is I stopped writing other ladies in Ukraine during that year. I could have been writing other ladies & seen them while over there. I didn't & only intende to see her. However when things went sour I didn't waste any time. I had no shortage of woment there 1 of which I still write to & will be seeing again when I visit Lugansk. You have to roll with the punches & go one. I sure did. I'm in it for the long haul.

... in response to Re: did the same thing did NOT work out...., posted by Zoidberg on Feb 14, 2003

n/t

... in response to Re: Good Luck Zoid, give us a Trip repor..., posted by Jski on Feb 14, 2003

n/t

... in response to did the same thing did NOT work out..., posted by Frank O on Feb 13, 2003

Frank, I continually find it so strange that posts similar to yours appear frequently over the months and in the archives, yet we still have those each week who ignore all of this experience and say things like, "each must do what they feel right about," "my gal is different,"  "we have something special,"  "it is not fair to the ladies to be seeing more than one on each trip," etc., etc.

JR

... in response to Strange, posted by juio99 on Feb 14, 2003

JR you will go crazy if you attempt to try to figure out man.

Each and every man is different. And when you throw beautiful women into the equation too often common sense is thrown out the window.

Many men think pursuing a Russian bride is similar to that of pursuing an American woman. Meet a woman of interest here, get to know her, date only her, take your time. Maybe it turns out to be a long lasting relationship, maybe not. Men here, for the most part, do not date 10-15 new ladies in a 10 day, two week time period. The reason being they are here, at home and they can take there time to see where this one relationship takes them.

Many men think it's no difference with pursuing a Russian bride but in my opinion there is a big difference. The time to make such a trip, only knowing a lady thru letters, e-mail, phone calls, the expense, new culture, traditions, language barrier. I think men need to realize it's not the same as dating an American woman. To a degree guys must learn, or realize there are major differences with regards to this pursuit and what they had previously experienced with local women.

Experience is what teaches men of the major difference's. Frank is a perfect example and I must deal with on average two men who have the same intentions as Frank had every week. Frank knew in his heart that this one woman was the one. I mentioned what could happen and what might be a better game plan, but Frank, like a lot of guys, was convinced that this one woman was for him. But I could tell by Franks attitude that if it didn't work, and he was prepared for this fact, that it may not work, and that he was going to have a good time regardless, which he did.

I think today, after Franks previous experience, he would never go to see just one woman again. And most men who go to see one woman, not all, but most who go to see one woman on there first trip will not do so again.

Experience is the best teacher and when men will share there own experience's it helps many others.

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Feb 14, 2003

but like you said I was prepared for the worst though I was hoping for the best. I also did not waste any time when things appeared dubious. Live & learn, live & learn.

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Feb 14, 2003

You're right Jack in that everyone's play is different.  Guys with looks or money or life's experiences or none of these, or combinations of these all come into play.  What the "chosen" woman is actually looking for makes a rather big difference as well.  How lucky do you feel, and how hard are you willing to work.

You're also sooooooooooo right in that this is about as different to dating a local girl as it gets.

... in response to Re: (*/*), posted by Globetrotter on Feb 14, 2003

Globe, my curiousity is killing me. How do your techniques for dating a Russian differ from dating an American? This is what I really wanted to know from Jack. Yes, Russians are different. But they are still women. I go about this whole thing the same way I would if she lived closer to me. Maybe I'm just missing the difference because I dated Russians and Ukranians here before I ever thought about going overseas. I just don't understand why you'd behave differently from normal when pursuing a Russian. Could you or Jack give me some concise examples of what is so different, please?

... in response to Re: Re: (*/*), posted by Zink on Feb 14, 2003

Zink, you are right in that women are women...everywhere.
Certainly what is not similar is their environment, their treatment by local men, their system of laws, (or lack of protection under them) their income levels, flats in which they live, jobs, education, financial security, language, culture, ties (closeness)to family and friends, and much more.  Finally, their perception of you and you to them, their potential "adaptability" to your surroundings and lifestyle...their new life vs. what was left behind.

Differing techniques?...politeness, wooing and charming them
when with them certainly for me is no different than the same courtesy I would show to a local girl.  The difference is after the "deal" is made and she is enroute to her new life, when the above differences come into play.  Dating local Russians and FSU girls don't count as they are already part of their new society.  Their jobs allow them independance they would not have known before, and they are more self-sufficient than their still overseas counterparts.  I think you already know this, but is something that is not thought about, it seems, by many here.

I'm saying that there is a really big difference in dating a girl from the other side of the tracks, than with dating one from the other side of the ocean...and even more so from former communist eastern Europe than western Europe.  Many here will say that their girl's adaptability has been incredibly positive and they are thrilled within their new environment, and "vive la difference."  Others here have had less positive experiences.  Much has to do with your ability to "tutor" your new bride for 6 months to 2 years, and your patience, (which you don't need to do with a local) your available free time, entertainment you can provide, your bankbook.  You or your local squeeze may have never had an interest in the local Lyric Opera or Symphony Orchestra before.  But it may be a necessity now.

Look, I'm still here, and still thinking about all of this.  I just take the approach that you should...look at the way things really are, as opposed to the way you would like them to be!

With all of this said, plus the financial responsibility
you take on should things go south...tread lightly and with great caution.  For those who have just enough cash to make one trip, fall for a georgeous hottie, get engaged in a week or 2 or 3 and throw caution to the wind, God Bless you and I hope you succeed....but your chances are quite slim.

So...Zink, there are some differences.

PS:  For western men who open car doors for ladies...either it is a new girl or a new car.  For one married fellow I know, the last time he opened the car door for his wife he was traveling down the motorway at 65 miles an hour.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: (*/*), posted by Globetrotter on Feb 15, 2003

I can agree with much of what Globetrotter says, however, there are many characteristics of the endeavor that are not all that different from dating local women. For instance:

[Disclaimer: This presumes that both men and women are being sincere and reasonably-realistic in their decision-making]

* You still need to find an entree that will allow you to identify someone with similar likes/dislikes/standards. Example: smoker versus non-smoker, Christian versus Jew versus agnostic. Finding suitable ladies in the FSU is no different than finding them in your home country. Internet facilitates either. Sincerity and honesty of the postings? I'd submit they are equally risky.

* You still need to spend time together. Few, if any, reasonable people will promote the mistaken notion that you can meet someone for a week or two or three and then make a decision that fundamentally affects those two people's (or more) lives forever. In this respect, language and geography are issues - but geographically, it is not more challenging than living on one coast of the US and courting a lady on the other side of the country. Language can be overcome, with dedication, in 3 months time. Fundamental impediments are overcome, or managed, with dedication and perspective.

* Cultural differences and the social context of FSU. Sure, it *is* different - and we are all the 'victims' of our experiences. What is most important, however, is how a person will respond to presentation of different perspectives and opinions. That is (IMHO) far more a matter of character than anything else. Another reason for needing to spend significant time together - so as to REALLY understand the person's base character and value system.

Further on the topic of cultural values - the FSU is far from the most removed from western cultures that I've personally encountered. For REAL differences, try the tribal communities of Irian Jaya. Even the more western-exposed cultures of India and Korea seem (to me, anyway) vastly more different from America than the FSU persons I've met and known. I know western guys successfully married to ladies from each of these other cultures - happily and for many years. In point of fact, it was the experience of traveling throughout Asia and living in Taiwan and Germany and personally witnessing the number of strong expatriate/local marriages that led me to the belief that these unions are potentially, far stronger than marriages within one's own cultural/societal group.

I need to confess that I blanch at the oft-suggested criticism of FSU men. I know many men in the FSU that are as upstanding, honest, and loving as any men anywhere in the world. While it is unquestionably true that alcoholism, economic hopelessness and political despair takes their toll on the minds and hearts of many of these men, I maintain that the vast majority of those whom I know personally do not at all fit the stereotype that is commonly reinforced on this, and other, boards. Maybe it's just the subset of men with whom I have contact - maybe.

Some perspective is in order - and it needs to be understood that criticisms of RM are (IMHO - no stats to support it, only personal experience) largely the advent of agencies looking to promote objective rationale for their ladies looking outside the bounds of the FSU.

So it seems to me that fundamentals apply wherever. There is still a selection process - and it involves the exercise of realistic expectations and honesty (on both sides). Once the initial selection is complete - there is the reinforcement/qualification phase in which both sides are insuring the selection was a good one and it provides the basis for projection - determining if the future will, indeed, be a rosy one.

Then, of course - there is the living the decision. The most 'telling' stage of all.

Language and geography are the 2 biggest impediments (IMO) and they are short-lived (3 months) and managed (frequent visits) by those sufficiently dedicated.

FWIW

LP - what's your 'equation'? You've probably resolved this down to a science far better than I have. Secrets/insights?? LOL

- Dan

... in response to The Other Side of the Story (Long) . . ...., posted by Dan on Feb 16, 2003

....You know how I feel. I fall on the same "it's not much different than domestic dating" side of the issue. Women are women, period. These women are easier to deal with in many respects because they often play by the old rules. (Of course, if you're a younger guy those rules may be rusty or never learned.) As you said, language and distance are the main issues and they can be dealt with by those dedicated few. I'm still surprised at the many guys who fail to educate themselves even the slightest in the history, language and culture. To fail to do so is denying oneself much of an understanding of where these girls are mentally coming from, not to mention enriching one's own knowledge of the world.

Still, chicks are chicks. Your comment that the "fundementals apply wherever" is dead on. Treat them with respect and understanding and in most caes it'll be fine. As for FSU men, my experience is about the same. Generally speaking, the older ones seem more together, same as in most cultures. (Funny about that life experience thing huh?) But I've met some fine youngsters in Ukraine also, at least one of whom we both know.

They're many things to learn about this pursuit but I think many guys focus too much on the women themselves and not the myriad of other issues that are really different. I'm still amazed at the how many get all wrapped up emotionally, especially as it applies to the (I feel) large percentage of guys who have problems that need solving before they even think about dealing with these girls.

I won't even get into the WOVO debate, there are just to many variables. I have trouble even defining the two methods. From attending a big social (imho bad) to writing only one with no back up plan (also bad), the two methods have lots of middle ground between them. My opinion is as long as there has been no face to face interaction, dealing with only one is a very big crap shoot. The guys who lean that way seem to be those who are young or inexperienced, overly romantic (again from being young and inexperienced) or just folks who've chossen to turn a blind eye to their previous relationships. (A classic case of one individual here.) After an initial visit a guy can develop a few and narrow it down to one before spending even more time with that one. Of course, the desperate ones won't. They'll simply come back and complain how it went sour in spite of them doing everything right.

Btw, I see some of the staunchest advocates of the WOVO have a "back up" plan. Scuse me? How exactly does that tally up? ;-) And many of our greatest advocates seem to have used the WMVM method on their previous trips. What worked in the end seems to be what they push, thats powerful queer if ya ask me. I view it soley as an efficency issue (and remember my travel costs are nothing). If a guys wants to burn up lots of time and money on WOVO (the newbies seem to make up a large percentage of that group for obvious reasons), more power to them. Funny how even a few who've learned the lesson go back to it again and again. As I said, powerful queer. But to each his own, when you pay to learn you usually do.

The other thing I'm amused at is the "all things FSU are great" attitude I often witness here. Lol, kids in a candy shop, some of these guys need a hard lesson before they learn it just ain't so. It strikes me as very revealing as to the reasons they became involved in this in the first place.

... in response to Well said..., posted by LP on Feb 16, 2003

Actually my method is more of a write many-visit few. I hate the pair and a spare mentality that some people have. But we all have to do our own thing. I'm with you on learning all about Russia and not just pick out a woman and come home. I just don't like it when people say that a guy's stupid if he doesn't want to meet dozens at one time. I went to Russia four times to just meet one woman. And I went once to meet many. I preferred meeting just one. I just can't concentrate on more than a couple of women at one time.

Letters are one thing but I hated trying to juggle my time in Russia between several interesting women at once. For me it always seemed to be lots of time alone and then the girls all wanted to meet me on the one day they didn't work. If I could have spread it out over a week it wouldn't have been bad. But going from date to date in one day was nuts. And it would've been worse if I'd tried to hide the fact that I was meeting more than one girl.

I tend to be careful and methodical. I meet one girl give her my full attention for the time that we are together and if it doesn't work I move on. I only need one girl at a time but I was smart enough to know that maybe it wouldn't last. That's why the backups. But then I also don't feel the time constraints that some guys do.

... in response to Grey areas., posted by Zink on Feb 17, 2003

Time constraints. I think a lot of fellows go into this thinking it is the quick route to marriage.  While this can be true I think this is where most mistakes are made.

Probably the best advice anyone could give is take your time.

... in response to The Other Side of the Story (Long) . . ...., posted by Dan on Feb 16, 2003

Much of what you say is true.  Take your post, then mine, throw it into a big pot, stir it up a bit, throw in a couple of strangers with different personalities from different parts of the world, stir it up again...then see what the outcome is.

Ya know, if everyone was starting from the same page, it may be easier to predict, but that's never the case.

With divorce rates so high on each continent, I'd say go slowly.  Warren Buffet once said, "The reason for such high divorce rates are unrealistiic expectations."...so your opinion is shared by good company.

I do know some great AW, one I've known for 30 years, so the hurdles to jump and the faith and trust and love for going the extra mile to join the ranks here, will require some more pondering on my part.

One other thing....also throw into the pot: patience, perseverance and lots of luck.

Good Post Dan!  

... in response to Re: Re: Re: (*/*), posted by Globetrotter on Feb 15, 2003

That was what I was looking for. I agree with you. But from the comments Jack made I thought maybe he knew some secret tip that I haven't learned in the last 3 years of being involved with Russians. I wanted him to show me a concise list of his pros and cons and why he says his way is the best way. I'd like to believe he has his clients interest at heart and isn't just trying to sell more adresses and services.

You are right about the extra effort needed in taking care of the woman once she gets her. I Know people personally that have been involved in the foreign wife deal. Many, many war-brides, A couple of mail order brides, lots of new immigrants. It pays to be careful and know your risks. But in the end the relationship will stand or fall on the strengths and weaknesses of both people involved. All the rest adds to the strain but in my opinion is less important than the couple themselves. That's why I shudder when I think about guys that get married quickly. Some get lucky, some don't. And even if you careful there aren't any guarantees.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: (*/*), posted by Globetrotter on Feb 15, 2003

...opened the door at speed huh? Thats sounds like somethin a chick would do, not a guy. I know a guy who had one get so angry she turned off the key and threw it out the window...the problem was they were in a 182 at the time. (He had a spare key)

They're nuts I tell ya, nuts....

... in response to lol...., posted by LP on Feb 15, 2003

I can see it now...fishing for the spare set in your side pocket at speed.  I hope his steering didn't lock when the key flew out the window.  None of my toys will hit that speed.

... in response to Re: lol...., posted by Globetrotter on Feb 15, 2003

I think he was refering to an airplane, not their speed, hee hee.....hey, maybe she took offense when he asked if she wanted to join the mile high club.

... in response to Re: lol...., posted by Globetrotter on Feb 15, 2003

... You didn't understand, they were in a Cessna 182 at the time. *Thats* how emotional some women can get ;-)

... in response to Re: Re: lol...., posted by LP on Feb 15, 2003

Yes, yes....in a 182, not going 182.  Just finished another hotrod, so my thoughts are more into cars than planes at the moment.  But yes, crazy indeed.  I think the ignition sw completes the circuit to fire the mags...must have been
"talking snake syndrome."

... in response to Re: Re: lol...., posted by LP on Feb 15, 2003

n/t

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Feb 14, 2003

I went over and met just one and I can tell you for sure I would never do it again........My fiance would Kill me if I did :-)

Kidding aside, Jack knew I was going to see just one (I used his services for the apartment and Airport stuff in Kiev which worked out great), he gave me his number just in case, but I left it on the e-mail server as I didn't want to think about it not working out.  I'm happy that all went as planned!  The usual disclaimer prevails, do what you feel comfortable with.  I travel a lot internationally for business and feel right at home in new places (except planes, I've grown to hate them :-) Its a great place to visit even if nothing works out.

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Feb 14, 2003

Now here's where I strongly disagree. How is this different than meeting a woman here? Please show me a list of how you would get to know a woman here. And then show me a list of how you would meet a woman there. And then explain the differences and why you think that your way is the best. I'm pretty set in my ways and I'm not going to change. But maybe your answers will help some of the undecided guys to choose a path.

Trying to know the woman you're going to marry is the most important thing in my mind. It has absolutely nothing to do with how many women you meet and everything to do with whether or not you know your lady and yourself. The culture and language barrier is significant. But speed dating isn't the same as really learning about the culture and people over there.

... in response to Re: (*/*), posted by Zink on Feb 14, 2003

Speed Dating is a valid technique, and it's also applicable to meeting someone here in North America.  An organization near me sponsors "Speed Dating" sessions as they call them where people get to meet several new people in a short amount of time.  It's a way of becoming introduced to each other.  I'm not so sure it's applicable to people who have already become introduced through some other method.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating this.  The wovo (with a backup plan) has a lot of appeal to me also.

Alf

... in response to Re: Re: (*/*), posted by Alfred on Feb 14, 2003

I'm not looking for an argument here. I just don't see why we should treat a relationship with an RW/UW any differently than we would with a local girl. I'm not against speed dating either. But it doesn't work for me and I think some other people are also more comfortable going slower. You just need to be aware of the risks involved in each method. Jack's methods do have a certain appeal. If there was a group like you describe near me I would have tried it. But introductions are only a first step. I'm talking about the whole relationship.

If you are driven to meet and marry a woman under a certain amount of time. Jack's method would be best. No doubts. But would you really be marrying the best match? Sometimes the obvious choice isn't the right choice. That's why I always caution, slow down and get to know the girls. If they are really interested in you and you make the effort to meet them, they should be able to wait for awhile for you to ask them to get married. So why rush to your doom?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: (*/*), posted by Zink on Feb 14, 2003

Fools rush in where angels dare to tread.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: (*/*), posted by Rando on Feb 15, 2003

^i^

... in response to Re: (*/*), posted by Zink on Feb 14, 2003

n/t

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Feb 14, 2003

Jack... If this does not work out I will do the same thing where I find one that I like and I'll start over... I will go there this time with a backup plan though... I will have your number in my little black book...

I do have a question for you and any others that went over there and met many and are now married... What if you met your current wife as the first girl that you met over there? Would you have missed out because you did want to "compare" her to others?

Z