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First let me thank all of you who have already given me advice on this board, many of you have given me some good advice when I really needed it the most. And a very special thanks to Ken, you have really helped me in my time of need, and I will always respect and appreciate that from you. You have one of the most beautiful wifes in this entire world, woman don't get any better looking than Lena, and if she indeed makes you happy, you are a very very lucky man.

This is my dilemma. I have been successful at taking back my Eclipse from Natasha, she doesn't know how things work here in this country, and she made a crucial mistake which enabled me to find her and retrieve the car.

My problem is, now she is completely screwed, she has no way to get around, and apparently she has just gotten herself a job, but she has no way to get there. She is seeing yet another guy, I saw him driving my car before I took it back. I have not talked with her, but I spoke with the guy she was seeing a couple of weeks ago, as him and I have become friends to a certain extent. She apparently called him this morning crying to him that if she cannot get back the car, she will have to return back home to Moscow.

I know Natasha, and I know that she hates Moscow. When we met, she was living in Prague, and she liked it there very much. As a matter of fact, she was somewhat reluctant to come here to the USA because she liked Prague so much, I had to talk her into coming here. But now she cannot go back to Prague, but Moscow instead.

I feel very bad about that, I did not want to screw this girl over, and I wish more than I could ever possibly describe here on this board that she did not screw me over, for if she hadn't I wouldn't even be posting on this board right now.

I don't know what to do, do I be vendictive and make her go back home to Moscow? Or do I have compassion for her and let her have a life here in the USA? I know what many guys would do, they would be very cold blooded and send her home, and maybe that is the smart thing to do? But I feel so bad about this I cannot describe it, I feel so sorry for her, and I wish to god she would never had done what she did to me, betraying me not once, not twice, but three times, which even included lying to the police about me abusing her, not to mentioned cheating on me with another guy. And now she is with yet another guy still, and apparently has a job working at a strip club here in Las Vegas, which is not what I wanted in a wife at all.

Part of me wants to send her home, and I know in the back of my mind that this is by far the safest thing for me both emotionally and financially. But the thought of her crying, the thought of her having to go home and being miserable, it makes me want to cry as well out of frustration in not knowing what I should do?

I have never been faced with this situation before, and I'm ill prepared to deal with this on my own. I wish I did not have to make this decision.

But before all of you tell me not to be foolish again and to send this girl back home as quickly as possible, please try to realize that this girl has been my whole life for the last 2.5 years, and she did in fact make me very happy for a short while, I was so proud to be married to her, so happy to be her husband, and we did share some good times together.

I don't know, perhaps I'm just a fool who will never learn, just a fool who will let himself be used time and time again, but I just can't seem to bring myself to be so cold hearted as she has been to me, maybe I cannot bring myself down to her level.

I feel sorry for her, I know her life in headed towards destruction, and I wish there was something I could do to help her.

What should I do? Keep the car from her and hope she goes home? Or should I just let her have the damn car and let her live her life here in the USA?

I wouldn't even be asking this question if she hadn't of screwed me over three times, of course I would help her.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. What do you say when you have been fooled three times? Complete moron and fool? And what do you say when you are possible setting yourself up to be fooled 4 times?

Maybe that's all I am with respect to girls, a total fool. I may be good at science, and I may be good at many other things, but when it comes to relationships with girls, I have always been the fool, and perhaps I always will be.

I think I'm just too nice of a guy sometimes, I wish I could be more cold blooded when necessary.

I just don't know what to do and really need some honest advice from anyone willing to give it.

Thanks in advance,

David

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Guy deal with her. Time for you to move on with your life, your not in the position to be feeling sorry for anyone...You need to feel sorry for yourself. Nothing more you can do for Her. Moooooooove on

... in response to Let some other, posted by greg on Dec 12, 2002

if you don't have the heart to send her back, best for you to leave her alone..

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

I am usually diplomatic. Not gonna do it this time.

This is my take on why you feel torn between two paths, that being to help your betraying lady and doing the only intelligent thing being to move on.

I can tell that you feel this disparity of wanting to go in two different directions with the one of empathy for her and wanting to help and the other being pragmatic and realizing that cutting loose is what you should do.

You want to cut loose, you feel that you should, it makes good sense to you but yet -- you feel torn.

Why do you think this is? Why would you desire to do that which you know is wrong, dangerous and not logical?

At some level you do not feel worthy. You are not willing to stand up to what you believe and make ultimatums at the correct time. This is a self esteem issue. It does not mean that there is any real reason for you to have this problem. Very talented and successful people can have severe self esteem issues whereas very dysfunctional individuals relative to being able to compete and survive in today's world may not have an esteem issue. So, to say such does not mean that you are a loser, it just that you act like one when you let a woman manipulate you.

You need to learn that you have to come first and in making yourself first (not being selfish as that is not what I am talking about) you can put others needs high on your priority list and it then becomes valuable and respected/appreciated. If you are a doormat - that is what you are - something to clean your feet on.

You need some counseling to find out why you are doing this. If you are lucky, hypnotherapy can get fast results for some. I would try that first myself. Also, start reading self help books.

Clearly it is an emotional problem. First of all, if this lady is quite a bit more attractive than women you typically have dated in the past, you could be just stuck on beauty versus judging her for who she is. This revolves around the issue of self esteem.

You can not be doing well in this category by what you are telling me. A man who has good self esteem has respect for himself and does not allow others to be disrespectful of him. He does not allow it. The more beautiful the woman, the more the issues of low self esteem come into play. The man with low self esteem will tolerate being abused by a beautiful woman because he feels elevated being in her presence. The fact  that she is beautiful is a statement that helps to erode feelings of inadequacy that he might have. It is However, when you allow people to treat you wrong it is viewed as being a weakness of character. Do not be fooled, all women at some level seek a man that is strong as this represents security. A man who is viewed by a woman as not being in control (she controls him), taking leadership, is a man that loses respect and in this she loses attraction for this man.  

You are getting being nice and caring confused with what women really want. They want someone who is in control of the situation who also happens to look out for their needs and wants as aggressively as he looks out after his own. It has to be both or it is viewed as a weakness.

So, do as you have done, ignore any advice. Give the lady more power to destroy your life.
That way you can justify your feelings of low self worth. Or, you could change. It is up to you.

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

write you some very nice romantic letters & you send ME some money David? I'll tell you EVERYTHING you want to hear & won't cause you any problems. Of course we'll never be able to meet or if you do you I can set you up with one of my Mexican friends & you can just pretend they're Russian. Sorry dude but you ARE a fool.

... in response to How bout I..., posted by Frank O on Dec 12, 2002

I'm not sure, but it seems your telling me something which I don't already know?

... in response to Re: How bout I..., posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Sorry dude but I hate to see what you're going through. You really need to snap out of it. NOBODY else can do that for you. I too am searching for a wife but I'm NOT willing to get walked all over for one. If some is going to be breaking hearts it's going to be me man. I've gone through one divorce & it hurt more than words can express I don't plan on repeating it nor do I plan getting used again.

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

David ...David...David...David...David... David...    What part don't you understand?  She does not care one flying F */* for you or your feelings! Be a man!Get busy and simply go over and find another one!

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by Watcher on Dec 12, 2002

I talked with her on the phone a short while ago, I asked her why she has done this, why after all I have done for her over the last 2.5 years she could possibly do this to me?

All she could say is that she could not stand me yelling at her. And all she was concerned about is the car. She now proposes that I take her off both of our vehicles, her thinking is that once I do this, she will be able to obtain credit for a new vehicle.

I didn't have the heart to tell her that credit reports typically are 3 months behind, or at least 2 months behind, so it would take 2 months or more for her credit report to reflect her being taken off the loan.

She also says she will give me an uncontested divorce, I'm no lawyer but I believe that would also work to my benefit, if she does not contest the divorce she won't be in much of a position of power I don't think?

She just wants some of her belongings that were in the car when I took it. She told me, "I'm impressed how you took the car, did you cut the steering wheel" The car had a Club on it, that is why she asked.

I didn't have the heart to ask her if she ever heard of a tow truck and locksmith before, probably she hasn't.

I know you are right about what you say, I poured out my heart to her and she was so cold to me, in fact, she hung up the phone on me after I said to her, "we just don't seem to be able to talk with each other", at which point she said, "no we can't", and then hung up on me.

I've got a question for you, how can woman be like this? How can someone be so cold, so cruel, especially considering all that I have done for her? I have done a thousand times more for her than any other girl I've ever known, and I tried a thousand times harder than any other girl I've been with. How can she just turn on me like this? How can she be so cold and cruel?

Is she evil? That seems to be the only answer that seems to make sense, because a good person could never do such a thing to another human being, good could never even think to do such a thing.

Please give me your comment on this.

I'm still trading right now, so I don't have a lot of time, but later if it's ok with this board, I would like to post a letter from her from the beginning of our relationship word for word so that you and others can see how she was, what she said to me, and then perhaps you could tell me how I could see through her lies, her deception, what could I do differently in the future so that I can see through this?

Because as it stands right now, I just don't know how I could have known? Perhaps you or anybody else could tell me? I want you to see how sweet she was, how her words made me fall in love with her and believe that I had met the nicest sweetest girl in the world.

I know that I may be hashing this out, but I guess its my way of trying to deal with this, until I can attempt to understand this, I will be haunted by it, I need to understand what happen, and I greatly appreciate the help everyone here has offered me, you guys are much smarter than I had thought, much wiser than I had thought. I have belonged to many type of boards on the Internet since 1992, debating with many people with respect to science, and many other topics, but never have seen a board as this one, never have people helped me before as this board has.

I don't care what anybody says, most of you guys are really quality people, and I thank you for that. Later I will post one of Natasha's letters to me, and I'm hoping that you can give whatever insight you can with respect to her letter.

David

... in response to Re: Re: Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

David,

Before you would have known me as greg or greg123. We had some dialogue back then - don't know if you remember.

To answer your question --- Yep the lady is evil. Of course that is all relative. At least she did not get a life insurance policy out on you and have you knocked off. You are in denial that people like this can be changed or do not exist.  There are people like this. She is one of them. They are easy to find. They are all over the place. They try to not let you see who they are but they all leave clues right and left for those that choose to really observe. There are also people that would not hurt a fly and feel empathy for others to a great deal.

There are women who would cry to your face about how upset they are that things did not work. It would be clear that they cared about your feelings. They would say that they appreciated how much you had done for them and that they will work to earn  money to help you recapture the funds you spent on them so that you would have the finances to go back and try again. This certainly sounds like your lady does it not? Do you see the contrast here is so immense that it is a joke?

When you met her, she revealed aspects of her character that were a clue as to who she was. Go back, think about it. When did something she said or did in the early days get your attention but you brushed it off. There were times when things did not seem right but you ignored it or made excuses for such. What were they.

Think about it and post such here. This will be good therapy for you.

... in response to BOHICA gentle readers.  n/t, posted by Griffin on Dec 12, 2002

Same old troll pattern.  How people quickly forget.

... in response to BOHICA gentle readers.  n/t, posted by Griffin on Dec 12, 2002

Well I don't know what BOHICA means, but I don't believe its something good, seems to be some warning? Perhaps you believe my story is false?

If so, you would be wrong, very wrong.

... in response to Re: BOHICA gentle readers.  n/t, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

BOHICA: "Bend Over, Here It Comes Again."

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

BOHICA!

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

in what city do you live.   I got along rather well using public transportation before I could afford a car.  Lots of people do if here intention is to stay here.  Perhaps you should spare some other unsuspecting guy from this woman and hope that she goes back to Moscow.  

Robert d.

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by Robert D on Dec 12, 2002

I've never heard of anyone having to leave the country because they didn't have a car. Just sounds like another story that she is hoping he'll fall for.

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

David,

Suppose you had a goldfish, which one day decided to jump out of its fishbowl because the outside world was so much bigger, less restrictive, more attractive.  Would you let your fish remain there, flopping around on the table?  Or would you return it to the environment where you know it would remain alive?

Where is Natasha's supportive infrastructure .... meaning family, friends, and environment in which she can handle herself?  Don't you think working in a strip club is similar to a fish flopping around on a table?  It appears, like most other RW here in American, that she can't support herself in a dignified manner.  Is that the life you wanted for her when you brought her here?

Whatever you do is your decision, but maybe what appears to be the cruelest is actually the best for her.

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by John F on Dec 12, 2002

NT

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by John F on Dec 12, 2002

I think of those RW's that fall under that catagory (that a lot of RW hunters refuse to acknowledge) have no problem strip dancing and they know they could wait on tables but instead are gready and without morals and they also enjoy the attention. I know one couple where the man makes enough money to survive and survive good but his RW got into stripping (she was a Doctor in Russia) and that created more problems in their marriage which somehow still survives and she found out about how well it pays from another RW! So I don't see her as a fish out of water at all but instead she's the kind of girl I call a man eater, and if some one doesn't think there are quite a few out there then you may be in for a surprise someday. These women aren't out of their fish bowl but insted found the big pond! As far as her going back to Moscow, you better ask her if she wants to go because he has NO control on that issue. She doesn't even have to say anything about abuse once she has her first interview for her conditional green card and they stamp her passport. (temporary green card until the real one is mailed.) We had our interview 4 months after getting married, and he's been married 2.5 years. Nope she's a man eater and she's going to keep eating right here in the states until she dies.

Mike

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

I sincerely thank all of you for your advice. I knew all of you would say to cut this girl off, I deep down I know you are 100% right. But why is it so hard to do? I have had many girl friends in my life, and many of them ended fairly badly, but this girl is not my girlfriend, she is my wife, and that meant a great deal to me.

I'm just going through a very hard time right now, and I'm still trying to deal with this.

I'm busy trading right now and I'm down a couple hundred dollars this morning, so I'm too busy to post right now, but I've read all of your messages and I appreciate your advice and help, thank you.

I'll post again later today.

David

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

My ex-wife meant lots to me too.  Learn how to let go and face reality.  Maybe you will someday recognize the difference between being educated, and being smart.  Cut your losses and get on with your life, as difficult as it may seem to do.

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

David,
You are confusing the amount YOU cared or her with how little SHE cared or you.  The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter how deep you were (are) into her.  No amount of your affections can overcome her lack of affection for you.  She has disrespected you in the worst ways by cheating and lying.  You can love her as much as you want, but it won't change who she is: a lier and a cheat that cannot be trusted.  Your actions in the past may be excusable bcause she deceived you into thinking she cared for you, but now you KNOW how little she actually cares for you.  You alone will bear any blame for any ill fated actions you ALLOW her to take on you. Run, Forest, run.
KenC

... in response to you are confused, posted by KenC on Dec 12, 2002

Ken, That's a great comment but it should have been your title.

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

She is lying.  Her boyfriend could buy her a car, or she could if she is working.  If you really feel like you can't live with yourself if you don't help out, buy her a junker from a used car lot.

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by Phillip on Dec 12, 2002

No way, buy her a three month city bus pass and get over it.

Robert D

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Go see an attorney FAST.  I would consider a bankruptcy one first followed by the divorce.  If she is dancing then she will have plenty of money to buy any car she wants and since she has already filed a police report I don't think you could send her back even if you wanted to.  Do SOMETHING, you keep coming back time and time again looking like a fool played time and time again.  Be a Man do SOMETHING, do ANYTHING but quit whining.

... in response to Why do you keep asking and then ignore e..., posted by Bubba on Dec 12, 2002

or Claire, or DaveSD, or some new troll dork.

... in response to Why do you keep asking and then ignore e..., posted by Bubba on Dec 12, 2002

That's what I was thinking.

Pravda

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

I must admit I was very sceptical of your story at first; perhaps partly because I could not get my head around your thinking.

Most of us have found ourselves believing that we had finally found "the one" at some point, and then begun the natural process of investing our hopes in that relationship, only to have those hopes dashed later on. Of course for most of us this happens after some months rather than after 2.5 years of marriage, but the principle is still the same. Denial is a common initial reaction, we don't want to believe it so something inside us refuses to accept that it's over; this delay of the inevitable brings with it a lot of unnecessary prolonged pain and material loss. It is never easy to pick up the pieces and start over again, but there is no alternative, so the sooner the better.  

A wise man once said... if you want to get over somebody, get under somebody. That might sound crass right now, but you need to get back in the field and realise that there is hope of a genuine relationship elsewhere.  

Natasha is a tough survivor, a product of the jungle of modern urban Russia. She has learned how to survive in a world without moral conscience or remorse. So, if she ends up back in Russia, she will be in her natural environment, where she has learned to win. If she stays in the States, her philosophy, lifestyle, system of values, call it what you will, are going to end in disaster. So she will actually be better off in Moscow.

So you can now cut her off completely with a clear conscience.

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by Streetwise on Dec 12, 2002

"...is ...a product of the jungle of modern urban Russia. She has learned to survive in a world without moral conscience or remorse..."

Unfortunately, that accurately describes most FSUW.

Yes folks, I went out on a limb and said "most". I am convinced that that is the reality.

Maybe that is why the few real diamonds there seem to outshine all others.

Two kopeks from south of the Mason Dixon line.

... in response to Re: Urban Jungle, posted by WmGo on Dec 12, 2002

Guy you are right on the money! My wife is a sweet heart but she also possesses that survival charactor, but fortunitly she has morals and is a good person. However almost every RW that I've met besides my wife only one other would I catagorize as a good catch and the rest have been bad news as far as a life partner goes, and these are women still in Russia and here married. I too don't want to be out on a limb but my wife told me that a good girl wouldn't use an agency and if she did she would be carefull so no one would know because everyone there knows or considers that is the place where the trash or girls with big problems go to find a man. I'm guessing but if you use an agency you'll need to meet many many women before you meet a good one on average.

Mike

... in response to Re: Urban Jungle, posted by WmGo on Dec 12, 2002

I'm affraid I don't understand?

If this is the way these girls are, why have anything to do with them?

Based upon my very limited experience, I would have to dispel some common myths purpatrated by many foriegn bride websites.

Myth # 1: There are way more girls than men in the FSU.

Answer: Not from what I saw, I saw many men over there, many very good looking men as well, who were very well dressed, and there seemed nothing wrong with them whatsoever.

Myth # 2: Woman over there have trouble finding a good man.

Answer: Pure nonsense, any decent looking woman over there could easily get dozens of men, without any difficulty whatsoever, just as they can here. The difference is perception, if your a girl, should you go for a man who is relatively poor like you are, or an American where all Americans are rich, live on gold plated streets, and have lots of money, etc?

Myth # 3: Woman in the FSU are caring loving woman, who only want a nice man to care for.

Answer: Again, pure nonsense, what they want is the chance at a better life, and they are willing to sacrifice in order to get it, and woman are woman, growing up in the FSU makes little difference, and actually since God does not exist in the FSU in any real way, values as such do not exist. Survival exist, and survival is harsh and cruel at times.

Lesson to be learned? Yes, "if it sounds too good to be true, it's not true".

There is no magic bullet, there is no fairy princess, there is no Oz, it's all an illusion. Some get lucky, just as some get lucky here too, and some people win the lottery, but most don't.

Sorry for being so pessimistic, but these agencies tell the biggest lies all for money, I'm sick of their lies.

No more fantasy for me, I've had enough of that, life is cold, hard, cruel, and downright mean, the sooner I realize that I will never achieve happiness the better I'll feel, because chasing something that will never come only leeds to lifelong frustration.

David

... in response to Re: Re: Urban Jungle, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Now shoo and put us out of our misery.  Move to Mexico and stay off the internet.

... in response to Re: Re: Urban Jungle, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

...Now yer talkin! Thats it Davey, you're screwed. Jump. Pull the switch. Or pop a cap on her and then one on yourself. It'll solve all your problems and it's the only magic bullet that really does exist. Then we can *all* rest in peace.

Or else quit yer whinin and move on. I feel for ya but you choose to ignore all the advice given you so there's not much left to say. But quit the self pity thing, will ya?

... in response to "that will never come only leeds to..., posted by LP on Dec 13, 2002

I agree, I've decided not to be depressed anymore, my depression has now turned into aggression, now I'm going for the jugler.

Yesterday, when she hung up on me, that was the last time she will ever have the chance to disrespect me ever again. She told me she was impressed I was able to find her and get the car back, wait till she sees what I do now, she will be very impressed.

I have so much dirt on this girl I have no doubt the INS will not overlook what she has done, I can and will prove she is a liar.

I want her to go home to Russia, she does not deserve to stay here, and I will be doing many guys out there a huge favor by making her leave.

I still can't believe this has happen, but since it has, now it's time to take care of business, I won't let her get away with what she has done, she has seriously underestimated me, poor dumb girl.

I no longer need to post here anymore, I'm ok now.

David

... in response to Re: "that will never come only leed..., posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

No follow that post up with action, i.e. no more posting!  Be gone loathsome troll!

... in response to You no longer need to post here!, posted by BubbaGump on Dec 14, 2002

Uh, I really hate to tell you this, but your name speaks volumes as to who you are. From my perspective, nobody normal would name themselves Bubba, nor would they follow that name with Gump.

I have lived all over this country, and I can assure you I have never met anyone with the name Bubba before, simply because I don't associate with people like that.

Are you from Alabama? Or perhaps Louisana? Your profile indicates you are from the western US, but I highly doubt that is where you are from, I'm born and raised in CA, and nobody would ever name themselves Bubba who is from there. Bubba is southern slang for an uneducated, backwards, chewing tobacco spitting fat lazy good ole boy from the south.

Does that describe you Bubba ole boy?

... in response to Re: You no longer need to post here!, posted by John LV on Dec 14, 2002

Nope, and at least I don't display a personality disorder. I think you're a feminist troll.

... in response to Well, posted by BubbaGump on Dec 15, 2002

Feminist Troll?

Well how does it make you feel then that this "feminist troll" could easily kick your butt like she was fighting a two year old little girl?

You must be mighty embarrased I'll tell ya.

... in response to "that will never come only leeds to..., posted by LP on Dec 13, 2002

You're right there man.  Better to be smart than educated, wonderful to be both but if you're niether, best to be lucky.  

This guy could be a "Jerry Springer" candidate...woe is me, woe is me, why am I so put upon?...I still love her and don't want her/me to fail...what went wrong, what went wrong?...how can I fix it...make her "see" the light...I am so wonderful, how can she throw all this away?

All this guy is, is educated...not smart, not lucky, and without a clue.

Now, "I" see the light!  So sorry for lambasting you in an earlier response...but, I'm new here.

... in response to Re: "that will never come only leed..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 13, 2002

lol...where did that happen? Lucky for you I didn't see it! ;-)

Hey Davey, fwiw, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Frankly, I don't think she is anything to write home about. Btw, you're going thru all the classic phases in order: grief, denial, anger, acceptance. Don't let it out, keep those emotions wadded up in a tight little ball where they'll fester into mental illness. She'll pay! They'll all pay! lol...You gettin my drift?

I still maintain your pesonality had something to do with all this but she should have left before she betrayed you. You're both guilty imho. Her saying how you were always "yelling at her" doesn't surprise me in the least. I know ya pal, I know yer type all too well.

Fer once, think about what yer doing.

... in response to Lambasting?...., posted by LP on Dec 13, 2002

Well, more like "shame on you"..."it is beneath you" is what I said when I thought you were kicking the poor dog that got hit by the car.....until he showed everyone how STUPID he was.

... in response to Re: Lambasting?...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 13, 2002

...I've been cuttin this guy more slack than most guys here.
I even deleted some posts after I got some details on his story.

But not any longer. ;-)

... in response to Lambasting?...., posted by LP on Dec 13, 2002

Well your wrong, you have never met me in person, how I can be on a message board behind a computer and how I am in person are two totally different things. If you actually met me in person, you would see I was very nice. And while I'm not saying I was perfect in our relationship, and I did yell at her, but she deserved it. Like I said before, she would never clean anything in the house, she would dirty the whole house up and expect me to clean it, I had to do the shopping, pay the bills, clean the toilets, clean the kitchen, do the dishes, do her laundry, gas up her car, take her car through the car wash, vacuum the carpets, plan our budget, plan our trips, plan everthing we ever did, she could do none of these things, she refused to do any of those things, saying to me, "that is what a man is for".

When I found out about this guy she was seeing, she said to me, "a real man would have gone over to his house and beat him up, why didn't you"

I asked her, "is that what you want me to do", and she said, "I'm not saying that, but that is what a real man would do"

Are you getting the picture yet LP? She is pyschotic, plain and simple.

Tell me LP, what would you have done in this situation? It's Friday night, your wife is out somewhere and won't answer her cell phone, she eventually calls you up and says she is over her girlfriends house, you both hang up and then you dial *69 and call back the number, a guy answers the phone, you say, "is Natasha there", she gets on the phone and you say, "what is going on Natasha, there is a guy over there", and she pauses and then says, "we need to talk". So she comes home and tells you, "I have found another guy whom I am in love with, he makes me happy", you then say, "well if your going to be with another guy, then pack your things and move out", she then says, "I'm not going to move out, I'm on the lease too, I have just as much right to stay here as you do, and there is nothing you can do about it"

What would you do LP, she wants to see this other guy and then sleep in your bed, have you feed her, drive around the 22K dollar car you bought for her, etc.

What would you do LP? This is what I did, I said, "well if you won't move out then I will, she said, "go ahead".

Now I ask you, what do you think stopped me from taking my fist and shoving in straight down her throat? It's called jail LP, nothing more, if it wasn't for jail, she would not have any front teeth in her mouth right now, that much I can assure you of.

Now LP, have you ever heard of anything like what she did to me? Have you ever heard of that kind of nerve before?

No LP, you cannot imagine how nice I was to this girl, you cannot imagine how much nonsense I took from her for so long, I may have called you every name in the book before, and I may get into many cyber fights, but in person I am a very nice person.

I was nicer to her than any other human being I've ever met, that much I can promise you, but there is only so much a man can take, have you ever heard of a woman who won't clean anything ever? Who says, "what do you think I'm your slave" after you ask her to rinse out her own dishes?

No LP, you don't know what I have gone through, how many guys who made 45K last year would buy two brand new cars for their wives? How many guys would not buy themselves any new clothes for 2 years so that she could? How many guys would put up with a girl who could not keep a job? Who would sleep in till 2 pm everyday, and stay up until 3am in the morning?

No LP, you simply don't understand what I've had to deal with, I'm sorry you feel I'm such a bad guy, but you don't know me, you really don't, come to Vegas sometime, we will have a drink together and see for yourself.

David

... in response to Re: Lambasting?...., posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

..two David. And I know your history here. And I know that anyone who claims to be (or needs to be) so far apart in personality on a BB and in the flesh ain't operatin with erected gyros.

I don't think you're a bad guy, but you sure are your own worst enemy. One's life is often a product of one's enviornment and whether one allows that to occur or not is the $64,000 choice.

What would I have done? I would have never let it happen in the first place because I'm not often a slave to my emotions. Why do you supose that is? Because I *have* heard of such evil. In fact, I've had to deal with it myself. Your situation is actually a cakewalk compared to a few I know of. Still, I know it doesn't make it any less painful for you. As for other advice had it been me, it's moot now and you've shown you don't listen well anyway.

Who hasn't dealt with this crap? You're a tyro, thats your problem. You're just dealing with the same stuff most of us already have. Ironicly such people are less equipped to deal with it later in life than earlier, funny how that works.

Ok, you tried and she stuck it to you. Doesnt mean she is inherently evil. (although it's possible, because she's a Russka..lol) She will likely find someone who'll work out better and live happily ever after, as will you. Thats assuming you stop being your own worst enemy.

You will survive this and be a better, not lesser, man for it.

... in response to I know it takes...., posted by LP on Dec 13, 2002

I hope you are right about that, although I couldn't imagine any man being happy with Natasha, unless he loves to do all the cleaning and all the working to make a living at the same time?

That's hard to imagine, and that is why you never know someone until you live with them, and that’s why I would never just bring a girl over here again and get married in months or less, no way, that simply is not enough time to get to know someone, and having to wait an entire year to even get her over here to begin with is a sick joke. That is why I'm considering moving to the FSU, and since I've been to Prague twice and liked it there, that seems a logic choice to start.

Believe me LP, think whatever you would like to about me, that I need help or have a disorder of some kind, but I'm telling you the truth that I treated Natasha very very well, I gave her everything, did everything for her, and I got back very little in return.

I had everything invested into our relationship, time, money, and more effort to get her than any girl I have ever chased, from sending her 3000 via western union over an 8 months period, to spending thousands of dollars on telephone bills, to buying a computer for her while she was in Prague so we could talk for free via Net2Phone on the Internet, to buying her two brand new cars, to teaching her to drive, to every single thing I did for her, which the list would be endless.

I walk away from this relationship with a clear consciousness, I did everything in our relationship, she is the one who did nothing and then acted as if I was the worst guy in the world.

I know that I'm much better of without her now, but the fact remains that this has put a serious dent in my trust with woman, in my opinion its too bad woman have to be the way they are, and its even worse that us men need them, its certainly a curse from God and not a blessing, unless of course you are lucky enough to find a good woman, then blessed indeed you are.

LP, seriously, you say, "(although it's possible, because she's a Russka..lol)", why do you say this, and please be honest. Are Russian girls this way typically? Is life in Russia so harsh that it makes woman like this?

Because I have met some other Russian woman, and I'm sorry to say but I'm not impressed at all, they seem very cold to me, sort of like going out with a girl from NY City, or even worse. What is your honest opinion on this?

David

... in response to Re: I know it takes...., posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

...Lemme explain sumthin to you I learned from 4 years of being an LEO. Basically, in general, human beings suck. This includes the fairer sex. Women are capable of the most despicable acts known to man and only men who are lonely or lack confidence in dealing with them place them upon a pedestal. By doing so you often forfeit your own sense of worth, a bad move.

Now don't get me wrong, they have their place in the grand scheme of things and I like them too. I'm not saying they should be abused, or even used, but any man who waxes poetic about women in general is an ignorant fool and is just cruising for a bruising. Chicks are just people and because of their emotions, are often a mass of conflicting logic. Lol, compared to us they're continually operating in something akin to an altered state.

My experience is that the vast majority of FSU women have some form of hidden agenda, as do most women. That agenda can be overtly evil or so sugar coated it's barely perceptable. Even the sweet ones (and I've met some very sweet ones) are always looking for an angle, especially in the beginning of a relationship. That agenda may vanish if she becomes sweet on you but it lives on if she doesn't. This is true of most women and with FSU women that cultural seed was planted and took root long before some American smuck like you came along.

How Joe Smuck deals with it, how he pierces the fog of his own emotions when dealing with them, is the key to seeing what they may become in the future. In general, most of the men involved in this lack experience with woman in general or allow thier loneliness to run their brain. This seems to be what happened to you. Hopefully you've now learned a lesson.

Be extremely careful around all women. Love the one you think is right for you but never forget she's still only a woman, simply another human being who'll eat your lunch in a heartbeat. They aren't anything special, not even close. And never delude yourself into thinking a particular one is, because they all seem to be when you're just starting out with one. Yeah, I've heard they're all individuals. Hell, everyone is an individual...just like everyone else. Understand?

The fact is they're just like men, animals. Only worse. At least you know why you got involved in this. The key is to never depend on anyone for your happiness or confidence, especially someone you've placed in a position to hurt you. Thats not saying you shouldn't trust them, it's saying you shouldn't need them. Its better to have a woman around than not, but to need one is the single greatest crutch most MOB men have. And when the hidden agenda reveals itself, most no longer have a leg to stand on.

Don't feel too bad, you ain't alone. What a pal of mine calls the "Power of the Bush" has long caused problems for men. Throughout history kingdoms have fallen, wars fought, entire countries changed, all because of it. Since it comes from within ourselves the POB is one of the most potent forces in the universe.  Never underestimate it or shrug it off. In fact, be afraid...be very afraid. Respecting and understanding it as well as learning to deal with it will save you mountains of grief. In some ways what just happened to you was a good thing.

In essence, wise up and consider women an enhancement to life, not a neccessity. You come first, they don't. Take care of number one in the future, never lose sight of that and you'll *probally* do ok.

... in response to Last call....., posted by LP on Dec 14, 2002

LP,

Good post "dude" :)

... in response to Last call....., posted by LP on Dec 14, 2002

That was an incredibly interesting post, and you surprise me to say the least, if you ever come to Vegas, please allow me to buy you a drink, or many drinks if you like.

I think you would be a very interesting person to talk with, and certainly I could learn something from you.

However your post does seem to contain a dichotomy within it?

In any event, you only validate my beliefs about woman, the very reason why I did not go out with any from the ages of 22 or so to about 32 when I started talking with Natasha.

And from what you just said, I can't imagine why I would want to go out with another one?

It seems all women are for then is? What? Sex? Companionship?

Hmmm, very interesting, very interesting indeed. It would seem to me then that the only way to come out on top would be to remain in a position of power over them, using money, and using power to keep them down, keep them in their place. And when one goes astray, to simply get another one as easily as you would go buy a new pair of pants, throwing the other pair away as they don't fit right anymore?

I guess you don't believe in God? If not, I'm sorry about that, because I know he does indeed exist, although I used to be an atheist as well. But if you do, why do you suppose he would make woman the way he did? I would think that either he made a mistake, or he wanted us to suffer.

Yes it would be far easier to believe in Evolution as I used to, that religion is much much easier to believe in, the gods of chance and time are much less cruel and mean.

What an incredibly absurd joke this world is, and with each passing day I only hate it more and more, at 35 I do not believe I will ever see 40, but not because I'm depressed, but because I'm sickened by the waste of time this world is, I see nothing to be happy about.

Thank you for your post, it was indeed very enlightening, and my offer stands if you ever come to Vegas.

I wish you happiness if you can find it LP, regardless of what I may have said about you in the past, I like you.

David

... in response to Re: Last call....., posted by John LV on Dec 14, 2002

..You got it all wrong. Women are good for far more than that and I don't think they are lesser beings than men.
They're the same, thats my point.

You make it sound as if I hate them. On the contrary, I think they're great to have around and definately add to the quality of one's life. But you need to keep them in perspective and as a rule not worship them. After all, the one you couldn't live without today will be a distant memory tommorow. More fish in the sea and all that, it even applies to many marriages.

Nothing lasts forever and until you come to grips with that you won't understand. I like them all, it's just that any one (or all of them) aren't a must have situation. Like most things in life, some come and some go. How you handle that is important. And how you use that knowledge going into the next one (assuming the nmarriage or relationship fails) is tantamount to avoiding future problems.

At least until you find one that fits. Then you can *somewhat* relax. Even then, you shouldn't put her at the center of your universe. It simply isn't worth it because she could turn on you for the strangest reasons. It's all about respecting yourself in addition to respecting them. They are nice to have but they shouldn't make your world go round. If they do, you're already in trouble.

... in response to No, no...., posted by LP on Dec 14, 2002

...It's got nothing to do with how God made women, it's how He made people. And whether I beleive in God is irrelevant.
(I do, but not organized religion. lol, and I spend most of my working days closer to him than most.)

Life is hard, real hard if your stupid. Learn from your mistakes and know that all people are bad, just not all the time. Every one of us is capable of the worst things imaginable, it only takes the proper circumstances and right amount of pressure. Due to their emotional nature, this level often appears lower in women.

Look at it this way: Speaking of God, a women's perspective on things was forever proved when the first one took dietary advice from a talking snake!

... in response to Re: "that will never come only leed..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 13, 2002

Buddy, you simply do not understand what our relationship was all about, you do not understand the tens of thousands of dollars I have spent on her, the time it took me to teach her everything, you cannot possibly imagine it.

And you cannot imagine the extreme betrayal she has done to me, lying through her teeth, buying me a birthday cake, right before she went out and had sex with another guy, and to have the nerve to tell me about it and still expect to not only live in my place, but to also sleep in my bed, HELLO. Do you get the picture? No you don't, because I promise you sir you have never in your entire life heard of such a thing, have you?

No you haven't, nobody has, because there are no people like that in this world, only her.

You have no idea what I have been through, and words on this message board could never describe it, but lets put it this way, she is one of the luckiest girls on this planet she is not dead right now, because she deserves to be.

David

... in response to Re: Re: "that will never come only ..., posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

Grow up...get a life.

Stupid is as stupid does!!!  Buddy.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: "that will never come o..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 13, 2002

Grow up get a life?

I love the Internet, because only on the Internet do people feel they can say the things they say, how much you want to make a bet if you and I were in person, you wouldn't have the balls to say anything like that to me?

If you feel you would, come to Vegas and prove it to me, but I'm willing to bet you don't have the balls to do that, few people do pal.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: "that will never co..., posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

...Better listen to him Davey, he has more wisdom in his pinkie than you have in your entire body. And knock off the "I'll kick your ass" attitude, it's what got you in such trouble in the first place.

I realize you be twisted up these days but slide back to that and we'll all be on you like an ugly on an ape.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: "that will never co..., posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

Dear Stupid,

I have 15 years on you, but you would last about 15 seconds and limp away with about 3 or 4 broken bones.  If you like knives...never mind tough guy.  

You're right though, you won't make it to 40!  You are the most educated, dumbest kluck I've ever read about.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "that will neve..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 14, 2002

David,

I'm sorry.  You are in a bad way and I did not mean to add to your problems or frustration.  You are strange here as few come to a public forum and continue to add to the saga.
Most ask for help, it is offered, (as I offered) sometimes taken, and things improve.

I don't know your past as others here do.  All hope you do better in the future, don't repeat mistakes, and live a long, happy and fruitful life.  

Your proposal of a street fight was also not smart.  Never try to pick a fight with someone you don't know.  Someone is always tougher.

You have been given a great deal of advice.  Take some of it and move on...no vindictiveness, no revenge, no hate.
Just be smarter than before, and be happy you are not writing 6 or 7 figure checks to be rid of your problem.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "that will neve..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 14, 2002

Talk is cheap, when can you come to Vegas?

Or are you too chicken for that?

I have more intelligence then you ever thought about having moron, name your subject so that I can make you look like the idiot that you are.

Come to Vegas and show this second degree black belt with an IQ of 186 how its done, please?

David

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "that will ..., posted by John LV on Dec 14, 2002

Wow...second degree black belt.  Tae Kwon Do I hope.  Then we'll be even.  Now, if you've also boxed for 35 years, been in more street fights than you can count, you'll have an edge.

Fix your problem first.  I would never not throw a float to a drowning man.  You are very, very sick.

Best of luck in your survival!

... in response to My God, the IQ...I'm Better than you com..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 14, 2002

OK....My subject is WOMEN!!!

... in response to Re: Re: "that will never come only ..., posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

And just so you can see that personality has nothing to do with looks, take a look at what she looks like.

http://www.stockgappers.com/

Go to the left of the page and press "media", then look down toward the bottom at "davetrading", that is her and myself together the day after we were married, that picture was taken at the Bellagio.

I don't mean any disrespect to anybody, but I will NEVER go out with a girl who has any tatoos ever again, I hated them when I first met her, and I knew it wasn't a good thing.

David

... in response to Re: Re: Re: "that will never come o..., posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

IMHO if a woman has a tatoo it is a sign of having no class and probably no education. In addition it indicates self esteem issues. It also indicates that the woman may be a little on the trashy side.

Yes, there are exceptions, but as for me I respect myself too much to date woman who have them.

Dva kopekc

... in response to Re: Tatoos, posted by WmGo on Dec 13, 2002

Like yourself, I will NOT date any women wearing a tatoo.
You are rather diplomatic in your post suggesting a women with a tatoo "has no class..... no education..... self esteem issues...... trashy side." I'll be more blunt.... a
women wearing a tatoo resembles a drunken sailor on shore liberty or a harlot..... perhaps drug use. What has become of (some) American women???? What are they thinking???

... in response to Strongly Agree, posted by MtMav on Dec 14, 2002

The problem is that they are *not* thinking, but rather are allowing the pop/New Age/post modern/post Christian rebelious culture to direct their path......Oh to find a Proverbs 31 woman!! !

... in response to Strongly Agree, posted by MtMav on Dec 14, 2002

You guys really surprise me, I thought after saying that I would never want to go out with a girl with a tatoo, I would be ganged up by all of you and told there was nothing wrong with it.

It's surprising to hear that you guys don't like them either. In my experience, girls with tatoos are the ones who are into porno, strippers, bi-sexuals, etc.

They are a rebellious type girl, not a woman who would make a good wife, who is into family, who would want children, and be a good mother.

I've learned a valuable lesson, never fall in love with a girl over the phone, that was a very stupid thing for me to allow happen.

All I can say is finding a wife in another country while living here in this country is a very dangerous business, and while some are successful at this, mine turned out to be the worst disaster I've ever experienced.

And for the record, Natasha had a very large tatoo on her left arm, and another large tatoo on her from hip area, I always thought they were very ugly, and always hated them very much.

If I ever did this again, I would first go over there and meet girls in person, not over the phone. Second once I met one who I thought I liked, I would hire a PI and have him/her investigate this girl, and watch her from time to time, like on Friday nights to see if she goes out with other guys for instance.

Additionally, once I brought her over here, I would tape record her conversations and have them translated to see what she was saying to family and friends, I would put a GPS system on her car and make sure she was going where she should be going, and once I got her here, before I married her, and even after I married her, I would hire a good looking guy to confront her and try to ask her out, being very forceful, saying things like, "I don't mind your married, I won't tell if you won't, why not just have a drink with me, what is the harm in that", seeing how far it can be taken.

That would be the only way you could know if you have got yourself a good girl or a cheap tramp, because in my experience in this life, I'd say there is only one decent girl out of a 100.

But one of my very first questions I'll ask a girl when I meet them is, "do you have any tatoos", and if they reply yes, I would end the conversation right then and there.

Good luck to all single guys out there, it's a jungle out there with scorpions roaming everywhere.

As my dad used to say, "they all seem nice when you first meet them"

How true that is, how true that is.

David

... in response to Re: Tatoos, posted by WmGo on Dec 13, 2002

along with extreme body piercing and modification.

-blm

... in response to Tatoos are considered pagan...., posted by BarryM on Dec 14, 2002

Yes, you are right. There are prohibitions against tatooing in the Old Testament. The principle seems to be that God is quite satisfied with his creation and that it is the "other side" influences which motivate one to distort their own body with the placement of tatoos. In this regard, it should be noted that most tatoos are of a *dark* or purely carnal nature as opposed to *light*.

I would say that I have some Christian friends  who have religious tatoos like crosses, the fish and Scripture verses on their arms... so here I am not so clear on whether those kinds of tatoos would be a violation of the Old Testament prohibition given the fact that we in this age are not under the law but are under grace......never saw a "nice" tatoo on a woman....I now even see women with the barbed wire tatoo around their upper arm...maybe GI Jane or something....

... in response to Re: Tatoos, posted by WmGo on Dec 13, 2002

Yup, couldn't agree more.  Maybe we're too old to appreciate this trashy trend.  There is a high correlation between tattoos and a criminal record in the US at least.

I was vacationing on the gulf coast last week.  Ate shrimp every day as you might guess.

... in response to Re: Tatoos, posted by WmGo on Dec 13, 2002

Well in the American culture, what you have said is obvious, and I would not even consider it, however you must remember, when I first started talking with Natasha on the phone, she was so sweet, so friendly, so kind, so soft spoken, saying all the things I wanted to hear.

She was unlike any other woman I had ever spoken with in my life, she was incredible to say the very least, I fell in love with her in a week or two, she was so intoxicating to speak with, I loved everything about her, she was INCREDIBLE, a dream come true, the best woman I could ever imagined meeting, I thought I had struck gold meeting her, the answer to all my dreams, the girl of my dreams, no other girl could ever come close to her.

Then I learned she had tatoos, I didn't like that at all, but I was in love with her at this point, it was too late. I remember when I first saw them, I hated them, but my love for her overlooked them, and I thought to myself her culture must be different than ours. She said that lots of girls in Russia have tatoos, she said, "oh David, please tell me it's ok I have tatoos, you would hurt me so much if you didn't like me because of them, kitties have tatoos sometimes"

You cannot imagine this girl my friend, I have been with about 50 girls in my 35 years, none of which were ever even close to this girl. I always said to myself that if this girl wasn't for real, than she should win an acadamy award for her acting abilities, well, now I know she should win her award, because it was all an act the whole time. She is nothing less than an extreme pro, her abilities are the best I've ever seen by a thousand times. I should have known it was too good to be true.

I can only wonder how long it will take when I can go a whole day and not be in total disbelief this has happen, I cannot wait for that day.

But please try to understand, when I met her she was incredible, she was so sweet and kind, so soft spoken and elegant, so lovely in every way.

I still cannot believe she has turned into the biggest b*tch I've ever known in my life, it just doesn't make any sense, I'm still waiting to wake up from this long nightmare and give her a kiss while in bed, it should be a crime what she has done, she should spend the rest of her life behind bars for what she has done, but nobody will ever know, nobody will ever believe, only her and I will know what truly happen. I am good, she is evil, its really that simple.

David

... in response to Re: Re: Tatoos, posted by John LV on Dec 13, 2002

.......... David, you should really practise what you know is right (and what can easily be forgotten) "Forgive those who trespass against YOU". If you dont, you will end up the same miserable soul she is. Gauranteed!

I am good, she is evil ??????? Harsh words taking the above into account. Remember, "He who is free of Sin, let him cast the first stone". Have you forgotten that?

Why cast your pearls lest they be trodden underfoot, tatoos or no tatoos!

WmGo gave you the best reference to evaluate the real woman, and then you will know, Prov 31:26 !!!!!!!!!!!! Dont touch unless you hear and see ALL those attributes, and they are not man made either. So I guess that could then EXCLUDE tatoos IMHO.

LP has written some great posts to you, POB (I say laughing out extremely loud) he is so correct; but when POB has the wisdom to go with it, then GO for it (B) with everything you have, but with the knowledge that she is everything described in Prov 31. And remember V 3, because they are out there, you have proved that!! Your experience is a good 'wake up call' to all who post here. Many more will experience just what you have described!

And remember LP's words again, and they go something like this; 'We dont NEED them, they are nice to have around, but it is probably, the single greatest crux most MOB Blokes have'.

Best wishes
JL

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Tatoos, posted by JohnL on Dec 14, 2002

Yes I know you are right, I fight with those thoughts everyday, I guess I'm a bit angry at God for allowing this to happen to me, all I ever asked for was a decent girl to be with, I never asked for a princess, I never asked for a beauty queen, just a warm caring girl who is willing to give love and receive love in return, a girl who I could be friends with, share life with, it seemed so right with Natasha, and I still cannot figure out what went wrong.

With all my other relationships, I knew what went wrong, but this time I don't, if anyone should have left and betrayed anyone, it should have been me to her since she never contributed to the relationship at all. Of course I could never do such a thing to another human being, it would be beyond my ability to even comprehend doing something like that to a girl.

Thank you for reminding me what I already know, it's good to be reminded from time to time, I will now go read those versus again, take care.

David

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Tatoos, posted by John LV on Dec 14, 2002

.......... because if you dont, you may never understand.

.............???.I guess I'm a bit angry at God for allowing this to happen to me,..?

It didnt just happen, you chose that road, ignoring all the advice which is free and written; and in every conceivable language and style so that all can understand, or at least be given the opportunity. But if it falls on desolate ground ....... you know the rest.

??.and I still cannot figure out what went wrong.? Again, II Cor 6:14.........

"Thank you for reminding me what I already know,....."  

Its called get up and go again, but with the written word in hand, and APPLIED, it will be like travelling with that double edged sword. But only when we commit ! Only then, and not before. I ought to know, I ain't got much skin left on my knees either, some landings have been very rough.

Get up and go Bro, cause with that help, Youll never look back ........ never.

Go for it!

JL

... in response to Read read read & commit..., posted by JohnL on Dec 14, 2002

[This message has been edited by WmGo]

Hey John!

Good post mate! And also the one above.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Tatoos, posted by John LV on Dec 14, 2002

.............. II Cor, 6:14 because if you do, there is the highest probability that you will go @.. over T.. again & again .....

To me that 'advice' comes first & foremost, above all things, all the time, without reservation ! That is the only 'condition' that will give you POB (Power Over Bush)  LOL !!
Seek & Thou Shalt find.

Keep looking, never give up. You never know whats 'in store' for the next day; I welcome every day with that firmly fixed in my thoughts!

Keep strong.

JL

... in response to And never ever forget, never ........, posted by JohnL on Dec 14, 2002

Thank you John, you are a very nice person, if only more people could be like you this world would be a very nice place to live.

I promise that I will try what you propose, I will do my best, thank you for your encouraging words.

I pray that God will bless you for your kindness.

David

... in response to Re: And never ever forget, never .........., posted by John LV on Dec 14, 2002

.................. and read this again and again II Tim 2:15, cause wer'e never gonna find a stone big enough to hide behind Mate.

Show thyself, approved, not to us PL Posters, but elsewhere ....

I try, and I think I'm getting there ..... sometimes.

Stay strong!

JL

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Tatoos, posted by John LV on Dec 14, 2002

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... in response to Yes David, of course, it's all God's fau..., posted by Oscar on Dec 14, 2002

I hate to tell you this Oscar but you sir are a joke at best.

... in response to Re: Yes David, of course, it's all God's..., posted by John LV on Dec 14, 2002

I'm a joke because I find it offensive that you have the nerve to to be angry at and blame God for your own mistakes and failures??  Can you possibly be any more arrogant?      

Just get some help David.. That would be the best Christmas present you could ever give yourself.

... in response to Re: Re: Yes David, of course, it's all G..., posted by Oscar on Dec 15, 2002

Ok, your right, I need some help, now could you be so kind as to name one single solitary human being currently living on this planet with half of my knowledge?

Which professor at which universtity do you believe has so much of half of my current knowledge and understanding? If you can direct me towards one, I'll be happy to go see him.

I read the Bible Oscar, that is all the help I need, for I do not place my trust in man, but in God. And just because I may be a bit angry at God for allowing me to meet such a horrible woman as Natasha, I also blame him for making me live on this terrible planet in this God forsaken world.

But that is between me and my heavenly Father, and it has nothing to do with you.

David

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yes David, of course, it's a..., posted by John LV on Dec 15, 2002

Believe it or not not, almost any decent therapist could help you, you are nothing unique, except in your own mind, and the sooner you learn that, the better.  It might even enable you to have a normal relationship at some point in your life.  Since when did "knowledge" ever necessarily equate with "understanding"?

You may have tidbits of information memorized David, but you are not nearly as "amazing" as you think you are.  Your great "knowledge" contradicts itself constantly, for example-

"I do not put my trust in man but in God", yet you have said how angry you are at God for "allowing this to happen to you"?  Doesn't sound much like trust to me.  You also "blame him for making me live on this terrible planet in this GOD FORSAKEN world"?  Some faith.  Do you perhaps think that it could possibly offend the God you speak so much of, that you would call his world "forsaken"?  You say there is absolutely nothing wrong with "suicide" and that it takes great courage (but of course it is not at all an act of courage) you speak of destroying one of His works?    If you know so much about God, where is your faith??  I have not seen a shred of it here, I have only heard you blame and be angry at God, blame your girl and everyone else except the person whose fault all of it really is- YOURS.  

Your fabulous "knowledge" seems to be doing you precious little good David, can you see that?

As I said, most any decent therapist could help you, that is of course if you were to try humbling yourself just a little (or a lot!) and listen with the intent to understand rather than condescend.

... in response to David-, posted by Oscar on Dec 15, 2002

Oscar, do yourself a favor and don't bother responding to me, because from now on, your posts won't be read by me, you are hopeless.

... in response to Re: David-, posted by John LV on Dec 15, 2002

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... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yes David, of course, it's a..., posted by John LV on Dec 15, 2002

...Ok, your right, I need some help, now could you be so kind as to name one single solitary human being currently living on this planet with half of my knowledge?...

Oooh, I feel the power of your great intellect.

I can name 1 person...your WIFE

She defeated you.  Ran circles around your superior intelligence. Pinned your wimpy ass to the mat.  All without batting an eyelash.  Just using her SUPERIOR BRAINPOWER.  

... in response to Wile E Coyote.....Super Genius! ! ! ! , posted by ChrisNJ on Dec 15, 2002

Really?

Well I have taken her car away 3 times, she no longer has a bright red 22K Mitsubishi Eclipse anymore, now she has only her two legs which she spreads for any guy who will help her.

Seems to me that's a good way to receive herpes, a good way to mess with the wrong guy who wouldn't think anything of throwing her through a window one day.

She has also destroyed her own credit, and she will never again be able to rent an apartment her in the USA.

And if you think all my cards have been played out, you better think again pal, you have no idea of who I am or what I can do with the stroke of a pen.

I have been building a case against her that the INS will not be able to overlook, I'm getting an Affidavit from her previous boyfriend indicating she had sex with him, I have a forged employment letter on a floppy disk which she made at Kinko's to secure her apartment, and I have an ace in the hole my good man.

You ever heard of one of those little digital recorders you can place in your pocket? Well guess what my fine feathered friend? I have her recorded admitting to filing a false report to the police about spousal abuse, in the recording she not only admits to doing it, but she also says, "what are you worried about, they didn't arrest you now did they"

Additionally I have a certified letter from a library in San Diego which is suing her for 250 dollars for books and videos she refuses to return, further showing her character, and I'm also working on getting another affidavit from the Russian girl at Costco who will no doubt indicate how selfish Natasha is, and that her marriage to me did not seem like a valid one.

So you see my good man, Natasha doesn't have one tenth of one percent of my intellect, and she is going to pay a price for what she has done that she simply does not understand, I promise you she won't be staying in this country much longer.

We'll see who has the last laugh.

David

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Dude trust me women can be some of the greatest actors on earth if they need or want something! Did you ever think she was crying so that other guy would get her a car? Also if she wants to stay here there's nothing you can do to make her leave (if you wanted to) but the chances of her getting any aid that would come back on you is slim to none and chances are she wont try for any welfare anyway sense strippers do ok as far as income goes. I've heard of girls getting to stay here and they never even got married on the K-1 visa! Anyway get a lawyer and dump her for good and do it NOW!

A girl working a strip bar has no problems finding a guy to be her surger daddy short or long term! I can hear her now telling some sap that she is forced to work there because she had to run away from a man that beat her and the guy is going to say "aww honey you can stay with me I'll help you and give you anything you need" (because he's thinking with his dickk) Heck after the first time she cheated on me I would have been getting a lawyer.(Once that cow gets a taist of new grass it'll always want to hop the fence) Everyone has told you to put her behind you and beleive it or not this advice is not comming from guys that don't know your pain, it's coming from guys who's been there done that, or watched others suffer and look like idiots when it came to women.

If you put your hand on the stove and it burns you wouldn't you know not to try it again?

Mike

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

David,
Your compassion for Natasha has backed your butt into a corner.  She suckered you into giving her the car back before.  How well did that go?  Did she live up to the promises she made at that time?  The very BEST thing for YOU is for her to go back to Moscow.  You are screwed if she stays here because of the police reports.  She will not hesitate to put your butt in jail.  Don't talk to her or her boyfriends.  Don't dwell on her problems as you have enough of your own.  She will survive just fine.  Close the door completely on her as you have exposed your own weakness when it comes to her.  Focus on what is good for David only.  If you can relocate, do so.  Don't walk away from her, RUN!
KenC

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

David,

As I have said to you before, I am going through a simular situation. So I somewhat understand what is going on though I only know half the story. She made her choices in life and she has the responsibility to answer for those choices. It is not cold hearted for you to expect and demand that she be adult enough to answer for her mistakes. Do you need the financial liability of her remaining here? Do you need the continuous heartache that accompanies her presence here? I will give you one small piece of advice, take it or leave it. This old saying that time heals all wounds is a load of cr@p. Time doesn't heal all wounds, someone else does it for you...or at least helps you heal. In other words, cut her loose and find someone else! Between her and whomever you find in the future, evaluate yourself and try to discover what will make you happy and a better person...alone. If you can't be happy alone, you won't be happy with someone else. You say you were happy with her for a short time. Are you going to trade a lifetime of happiness for a short time? Or a few moments? You can find happiness with someone else if you try. BTW, stop being nice...we finish last. Get an attorney, divorce her and send her on her way! From the sound of it, she had a plan and it didn't go completely as she expected....too bad for her.

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Now don't forget to write and tell us all about the trip will you?

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Way to go with the car!!! Yessss!!!

Okay--

You have a choice--

1) Play out the Hey Zeus Ker Rrist complex and keep turning the other cheek until you are imprisoned for several years and bankrupt, or

2) Come down to the human plane and start acting like a human and completely shut off contact with her and her boyfriends. Don't talk to any of them. They want to sponge off you. Part of you would love to subsidize them, I bet. You're that hippo with parasitic birds feeding off him, only there's no symbiosis. Shoo them away. She lived just fine before she ever met you. Since she met you, in fact, she has transformed into a sa-lut and a knewd dancer. Your contact with her has led to great misery. You should feel bad about what you have done to her and let her go back. Going back to Russia will be a big, huge improvement for her. She'll do better w/o you and vice-versa. So no misplaced sympathy. Her life in Moscow will be better than a Jerry Springer existence in the U.S., which is where she is now. Let her go. Good riddance. No contact, no money, no sympathy (okay, maybe in your heart, but keep a lid on it). She will get back on her feet in Moscow eventually. And don't send her a forking nickle.

Sorry to be so simplistic, but here are your choices. I think no one is going to give you advice anymore. You know what to do, but you won't do it. You are too blind to see that there are much better women out there for you because you are clinging so tightly to this loser.

My bet is you'll take option number one. You will beg her and her anti kerist entourage to drain you until you are completely dry.

And then you'll feel your ridiculous naivety and misplaced Christian guilt over it because you don't have anymore juice for them to drain out!!!

(Pardon the woird spellings-- it took a while to find out which of many innocuous words are considered foul language and are banned words.)

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Here's what I'd do:

First off, I would talk to a lawyer and find out what my liabilities are and decide if I could live with the possible consequences of my actions.

Second, I wouldn't consider giving the Eclipse back to her.  If I felt compelled to help her I would buy her a cheap car and give it to her (not in my name, in hers).

And finally (and perhaps most importantly), you shouldn't get near her.  You should see if the ex-boyfriend would act as a go-between for any gesture of goodwill you might want to make.

I'm not saying you should help her.  I'm just saying you should know what you're doing and limit your liability.

John